The Lightning Saga, JLA/JSA Crossover

[The Leaguer]

It's not oversimplyfing at all. It's exactly what happened. He's now a carbon copy of Ollie. He was a womanizer and "renegade" before, now he looks exactly like Ollie and has taken his place. He's even using Ollie's catch-phrases. All that's left is to make him a bleeding heart.

I know what literally happened to Manhunter, but this was an ideal time to bring him back around to his normal optimistic state. Meltzer could have replaced this circular, go-nowhere Red Tornado story with a Manhunter arc and all would have been better.

 

[Darthphere]

It's not oversimplyfing at all. It's exactly what happened. He's now a carbon copy of Ollie. He was a womanizer and "renegade" before, now he looks exactly like Ollie and has taken his place. He's even using Ollie's catch-phrases. All that's left is to make him a bleeding heart.

I know what literally happened to Manhunter, but this was an ideal time to bring him back around to his normal optimistic state. Meltzer could have replaced this circular, go-nowhere Red Tornado story with a Manhunter arc and all would have been better.

But he didn't, mostly, because I'm pretty sure it was said somewhere they had plans for him somewhere else.

Meh about the Roy thing, you can keep talking.

 

[The Leaguer]

I'll keep being right. Those plans should have been to put him on the League.

 

[Kebab gud]

It's not oversimplyfing at all. It's exactly what happened. He's now a carbon copy of Ollie. He was a womanizer and "renegade" before, now he looks exactly like Ollie and has taken his place. He's even using Ollie's catch-phrases. All that's left is to make him a bleeding heart.

ohh there are alot more things they have in common!
Connor Hawke is 1/4 Asian, 1/4 African and 1/2 white!
Lian Harper is! 1/4 Asian, 1/4 French and 1/2 Irish

HA! (i belive Cheshire is still 1/2 french)

 

[Darthphere]

I'll keep being right. Those plans should have been to put him on the League.

Perhaps, but other than that you have the fact that Meltzer said he can't write MM, I don't understand the logic behind his statement, but he said it.

Look on the bright side, he only has 5 issues left.

 

[The Leaguer]

Actually, I think Meltzer said he just didn't think Manhunter was a JLA requirement, but maybe he said he couldn't write him, either, in which case, that seems like it would be a pretty severe weakness as a writer.

I was as excited as anyone when it was announced that Meltzer would be writing JLA, but that excitement died off more and more details were revealed about the run. It's a shame that his run was so disappointing.

 

[Darthphere]

Meltzer got lost in his own fanboy world, and were just living in it.

 

[The Leaguer]

Normally, getting lost in their own world isn't necessarily a bad thing. Morrison does it all the time with good-to-great results. The problem is when that world sucks, which is where Meltzer went wrong with JLA and Johns went wrong around Infinite Crisis.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Meh about the Roy thing, you can keep talking.

Leaguer, Newsarama, and I have all already decried the fact that Meltzer neatly tucked Roy right back into Ollie's shadow. You're screwing up the ASSHAT motto of being right about everything all the time.

 

[Darthphere]

Leaguer, Newsarama, and I have all already decried the fact that Meltzer neatly tucked Roy right back into Ollie's shadow. You're screwing up the ASSHAT motto of being right about everything all the time.

And Black Canary is about to become Ollie's ***** again, welcome to the new DCU where everything old is new again.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I'm not too happy about that, either. Apparently strong women aren't really allowed to leave their relationships for good because that would ruin the fairy tale romance where he sleeps with everything that moves behind her back and she keeps coming back for more.

 

[Kebab gud]

And Black Canary is about to become Ollie's ***** again, welcome to the new DCU where everything old is new again.

ohh no.. if anything Ollie is becoming Dinah's ***** :P if not then the writer of their series is going to get a bullit in the head from Gail :P

 

[Darthphere]

Yeah, I'm not too happy about that, either. Apparently strong women aren't really allowed to leave their relationships for good because that would ruin the fairy tale romance where he sleeps with everything that moves behind her back and she keeps coming back for more.

You know how it is. Get used to it.

ohh no.. if anything Ollie is becoming Dinah's ***** :P if not then the writer of their series is going to get a bullit in the head from Gail :P

Keep believing that.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

They'll be equals, natch, because Dinah will forgive Ollie for his past infidelities and Ollie will forgive Dinah for... um... rolling over and taking them like a good little abused girlfriend.

 

[hippie_hunter]

No, Meltzer should stay far away from Roy. As the fantastic Newsarama review pointed out, what Meltzer did with Roy makes no sense. The entire point of the story was Roy coming into his own and separating himself from Ollie's shadow, and Meltzer accomplishes that by making him a carbon-copy of Ollie?

I can accept the Red Arrow thing, but there is no way in hell that I want him on the Justice League. If they make Roy his own man again, the Red Arrow motiff can be cool. But Green Arrow on the Justice League dammit!

Everything about the series needs improvement, except some of the characterizations, particularly Red Tornado's, even though I don't want him there in the first place. The line-up is terrible. I got sick of Black Canary in Birds of Prey, seeing her leading the JLA is not pleasing. Geo-Force, Vixen and Hawkgirl range from boring to out-right crappy. Hal Jordan? Please. Black Lightning is pretty interesting, I'll give Meltzer that, but beyond him and the Big 3, none of them should be there.

Black Canary on the Justice League rocks, her being the chairperson doesn't. That should automatically go to Superman. The most well known and most powerful of the bunch.

You mention Hal Jordan because you have a complete blind hatred of him.

But yeah, Vixen and Hawkgirl are pretty crappy characters. Replace Hawkgirl with Hawkman! And if you want another female character, replace Vixen with an awesome female character: Zatanna!

The plot was incredibly slow. Red Tornado's story didn't even go anywhere. As a character study in general it was pretty good, but for 6 issues? That's insane. Johns' rogue profiles were only one issue. It took seven issues for everything to come together and for the team to be formed and the Big 3 spent half of that in the Batcave.

Agreed.

I found it to be a good story, but the horrible line-up and slow pacing just crapped it up.

Although, issue 7 kicked so much ass.

And where the hell is Martian Manhunter?

That's what I want to know, and I read the entire Martian Manhunter mini

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I like Vixen and I like the idea of Black Canary leading. Most powerful doesn't always equate to most capable leader for me. See: the Avengers in their heyday.

Outside of granting losers like Hawkgirl, Hal, and Red Tornado membership, Roy's crapification, and the snail's pacing of the series, Meltzer definitely dropped the ball by not even mentioning the Martian Manhunter. Whatever Meltzer's feelings on J'onn are and regardless of whether he knows how to write him or not, J'onn is absolutely, indisputably a major part of the League's history. The other main Justice Leaguers have all alluded to J'onn being the heart and soul of the League at some point, too. I can understand his not being on the team; Meltzer has the Red Tornado filling his traditional spot right now for his own personal preferences, and that's fine (except for the fact that the Red Tornado's lame, but that's another thing). But to write a massive arc about the recreation of the Justice League without even a mention of one of the most central characters to the League's legacy is a pretty egregious oversight. What, did he not have enough time in the last eight issues to include one mention of J'onn and why the characters don't consider him for the team?

 

[Darthphere]

I like Vixen and I like the idea of Black Canary leading. Most powerful doesn't always equate to most capable leader for me. See: the Avengers in their heyday.

Bingo bongo.

 

[The Leaguer]

You mention Hal Jordan because you have a complete blind hatred of him.

Well aren't you Sigmund god-damn Freud.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Think of it this way, having Hal on the Justice League is better than no Green Lantern at all. Especially since this team is already lacking the Martian Manhunter and a Flash.

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

not sure i agree with that. although i would kill to see kilowog on the league. but he never will.

 

[Eros]

Think of it this way, having Hal on the Justice League is better than no Green Lantern at all. Especially since this team is already lacking the Martian Manhunter and a Flash.

Flash and MM were both always an unnecassary Luxury on the JLA.

 

[jaydawg]

Then I guess Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman are too.

 

[Eros]

Then I guess Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman are too.

MM and Flash only become a luxury when superman,Batman, and Wonder woman are already in the League.

 

[hippie_hunter]

The Justice League needs the Big 7. No debate in that. Period.

 

[The Leaguer]

Think of it this way, having Hal on the Justice League is better than no Green Lantern at all. Especially since this team is already lacking the Martian Manhunter and a Flash.

No, ANYTHING is better than having Hal on the League.