The Marvel Implosion

[SpideyInATree]

I honestly don't know what Marvel is trying to accomplish. I was upset of the Punisher MAX news but then Aaron stated that the last issue would be the end to the story he was telling so it's a little easier to swallow.

However, seeing the solicits for Feb. is just making me sick to my stomach. I've already dropped FF because they decided to "bring back" Fantastic Four. So now to follow Hickman's run you have to buy FF AND Fantastic Four. Hickman's run was cool but it's not going to keep me to stick around for the high price.

So, now with this "Venom" event they are shipping Venom FIVE TIMES! Seriously?! Venom # 13 which is $3.99 and then 13.1, 13.2, 13.3, and 13.4 at 2.99 a pop? Marvel, you DO REALIZE that DC just rebooted their universe and is doing a very strong job at churning out quality material. Marvel, do you REALIZE that Image Comics is putting out some really awesome new titles. Do you realize that IDW, Dark Horse, and various Indie companies are really stepping up their game to bring some really interesting comics that DON'T require such a huge financial investment?

So, in a span of just one month I've dropped FF and Venom...just like that. And it's not even because of the STORY. The story is fine! It's nothing against the creators either. But if I'm required to dump all that money into a story I just can't do that on a monthly basis. So now I have some extra money freed up to try new books that AREN'T Marvel.

Seriously...are they PURPOSELY pushing some of their readers into the hands of DC and other publishers?

 

[runawayboulder]

So Marvel is going to cancel a bunch of titles that actually have quality writers and spam the hell out of us with established sellers? That's a poor strategy. Excess of anything in the comic industry has never worked well. Look at the chromium covers, multiple X-Men events and major status quo changes (Death of Supes/Knightfall/Clone Saga) during the 90's.

I think the best solution for Marvel is a creative shuffle and scaling back of assignments. There is no need for Bendis to have 3 Avengers titles when he can barely get a handle on one. Same with the sub-par work Fraction delivers with Thor and Iron Man.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Well, I think it's official guys, we're in the middle of the Marvel Implosion. Herc, Alpha Flight, X-23, All Winner's Squad, Iron Man 2.0, and PunisherMAX were cancelled with the Victor von Doom and Destroyers minis getting canned before publication.

Today Marvel has announced the cancellation of Ghost Rider with issue #9 and Black Panther: The Most Dangerous Man Alive with issue #529. Basically every low selling book is getting canned and it feels like more are on the way.

I don't mind Herc, X-23, or Daken being canned. Alpha Flight isn't that big of a deal, since it can be finished in it's original 8 issues. Even Iron Man 2.0 isn't that huge of a loss. War Machine just isn't going to be a big seller; and, while I enjoy Spencer's writing, it's not new reader friendly. You need to follow his stories from Day 1 to know what's going on .. and, even then it can be a bit confusing. (Does anyone know what's going on in Morning Glories, except Spenser?) I'm most upset about PunisherMax, Marvel's best title; and, All Winner's Squad, which was a very good mini. (They shouldn't have made it 8 issues. Now, it's cut down to 5, and retailers are told they can return the first 5 issues. Nice to retails, bad for those of us who have been enjoying a book that will never be concluded.)

Also, Ghost Rider was simply terrible. No great loss there. And, Black Panther lost most of it's fans with the first issue. Liss does some interesting stuff; but, it's not what most people want to read.

 

[runawayboulder]

So far Axel Alonso is not proving to be a worthy successor to Quesada. Say what you will about the guy, but he got people buying Marvel comics again.

I like Alonso a lot but I have to agree with you here. His run as EiC has been very, very spotty. Fear Itself was a disaster, they had no real answer for DC's reboot and now they are in a corner trying to scramble for answers. I wouldn't quite call it hitting the panic button but it's pretty damn close.

Granted, when Joe took over the company was a disaster. He got the characters like DD and Punisher back in order, maintained the level of excitement with Captain America and Avengers stemming from Heroes Return and eventually got around to executing a solid plan to give the X-Men franchise a well needed shot in the arm.

 

[Energist]

I don't know. I'm not reading this as Marvel panicking so much as they're regrouping. Granted, I haven't read much on this aside from the cancellation announcements, but my assumption is that Marvel are simply getting rid of the titles which they feel have topped out at less-than-expected sales as a means to move those resources (ie, creators) somewhere else that will better benefit both parties involved.

The double-shipping thing I assume is merely temporary until they get their house back in order. I wouldn't be surprised if they're taking pitches right now for characters and concepts that haven't been dusted off in a while, so as a way to further diversify their own line, as it were, once more.

In the meantime, I can't say I blame them for pushing what is selling. It's not as if they're the only ones, either. I lost count of how many books DC have under the Batman umbrella right now, and I'm currently buying four G.I. Joe books from IDW, all at $3.99 a pop. Why? Because I enjoy them all, and three of the four are very closely tied together. In that light, I can't really blame Marvel for following a similar road.

As for the titles that have been cancelled so far: I'm completely indifferent. To be fair, I never read most of them, but in the case of Alpha Flight I felt as if Marvel jumped the gun on even announcing it as an ongoing in the first place (I like the book and team just fine, but I was never convinced its sales would be sustainable past the Fear Itself tie-in; perhaps Marvel realized this, as well), and Black Panther lost me completely with its Fear Itself, meandering Hate Monger arc.

The only titles I'm currently concerned about are Avengers Academy and Thunderbolts, but if my assumption regarding topping-out sales holds true, then I would assume Marvel believe that both titles can still expand their audience. In Thunderbolts' case, past sales prove this point, and in Avengers Academy's case, several sales bumps in its short run so far serve as exhibit A. Not to mention having the word "Avengers" in its title is a huge advantage for it going into next year.

Honestly, I'm not worried. I truly believe that there is more to this than what we're seeing right now. DC made a bold move three months ago, and their sales are benefiting from it for the time being, although I don't by any means believe their sales bump will last in the long term. However, they have shown Marvel that higher sales--in some cases, severely higher sales--are possible, so now Marvel are trying to determine how best to raise the tide beneath their entire line, too.

As to getting to that point, I view this recent string of cancellations as merely the first step on a longer, winding path. And I, for one, look forward to being there when it reaches its end.

But then again, maybe I'm just being foolishly optimistic about all this.

 

[kguillou]

Thats true, when Quesada came onboard, there was nowhere else to go but up. But he had an agenda. With the Marvel Knights line and the Ultimate line and putting Grant Morrison in charge of X-men and JMS in charge of Spiderman and Brubaker for Cap etc. etc. Axel needs to, NEEDS to find new, young, hungry writers that have a vision for their characters. There needs to be a new Bendis or Brubaker or JMS to take over these books and steer them in bold new directions. But in Marvel's eyes...why try to fix something that aint broke? They simply do not want to risk taking Bendis off an Avengers, they're playing it safe, but we're approaching 2012 and the same old strategy is getting very stale.

Marvel needs to just buck up, scale back tremendously, ONE Spiderman book, ONE Cap book, ONE Thor book, ONE Avengers book, trim down the X-men line by like 50% and most important of all, LOWER THE DAMN PRICES. Will they take a financial hit? Of course, but it'll prove very healthy for them in the long run.

 

[hippie_hunter]

trim down the X-men line by like 50% and most important of all

That's probably going to happen naturally. Daken: Dark Wolverine and X-23 are already cancelled. Generation Hope's numbers are terrible. X-Factor is still around simply because of Peter David. X-Men's numbers are dropping. And who knows how X-Men Legacy will fare with Carey off the book.

 

[kguillou]

How's Astonishing X-men doing? I feel like that book's been something of a non-entity since Whedon and Cassaday left.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I think it still sells above 30k

 

[Balthus Dire]

Not sure if this is just a personal preference or an actual contributing factor to the apparent "low sales," but for me, I stopped buying comics about a year and half ago simply because I didn't want to buy fifty billion issues just to get all the story I needed for Marvel's new "big event."

I miss the days of comics having their own stand-alone stories. Wanna read The Avengers? Then go read it, without having to catch up on what Iron Man has been doing for the last 10 issues of his own series.

It's sad to hear of these cancellations because in losing touch with all the big Marvel crossovers, I'm actually more interested in reading their self contained stories, which are now in jeopardy apparently.

PunisherMAX ending is like a punch to the balls for me.

 

[Spade]

I haven't bought a Marvel comic since Fear Itself #1. Their current direction bores me. Rather than talk doom and gloom, though, these would be my three main pitches to turn things around:

• Bring the absurd fun of crossover team stories back to the Avengers.
• Give the X-Men more for conflict than nation-building and racism.
• Do more with the most recent Spidey characters in upcoming events.

Once they renovate their marquee titles, the rest should fall in place. A new approach could rekindle reader confidence in lesser known titles and reverse these cutbacks.

They should also figure out why Ultimate Marvel still exists. I like some of the ideas in it, but many of them have been co-opted by Classic Marvel. No use in keeping it around as the "Doesn't Count" Universe.

 

[chamber-music]

I agree with people who said Ghost Rider was terrible. If your doing a Ghost Rider comic the Ghost Rider better be either Johnny or Dan.

So bascially Marvel is mostly selling just Avengers, X-Men and Spider-Man comics now

 

[JewishHobbit]

So there's 9 extra books I'm picking up in February due to double shipping alone, 7 of them being $4. Being that only 2 of the titles I buy are being canceled that means 1) there's an extra $28 in the month that I can't afford, 2) this solves the question of whether or not I give Scarlet Spider a try, and 3) I'm going to have to cut a few more titles. Suck! And that's just off of what Drz posted. Diamond won't open for me for some reason so I can't even see what else is out that month.

 

[Themanofbat]

Get Scarlet Spider dammit!!!!

 

[hippie_hunter]

- iFanboy is reporting that Thunderbolts is currently safe at Marvel

- James Asmus is saying that Marvel has guaranteed him that Generation Hope will still be around up to issue #17. He's writing his arc around the fact that it may get cancelled with issue #17 and hope that it continues on afterwards.

- Christos Gage has come out saying that X-Factor and Avengers Academy remain profitable and have stable sales, they're currently safe.

EDIT: Marvel editor Tom Brennan says that X-Factor and Thunderbolts are safe right now.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I'm glad that Generation Hope is good for a little while more. It's getting better as it goes on and the characters are growing on me.

And due to this surge of double ships I've gone through my buy list and have gone ahead and dropped Avengers Academy, X-23, Black Panther, Daredevil, and Green Lantern: New Guardians. In addition I'm not going to try X-Factor once Havoc and Polaris joins as I intended and I also am not picking up Scarlet Spider, as I was leaning toward. I'm also likely skipping out on the rest of this arc of X-Men and will just take that title arc by arc.

I want to continue with Venom I think but spending $17 on a title in one month is rediculous and might just turn me away, but we'll see.


Isn't Punisher and Moon Knight pretty low in sales?

 

[SpideyInATree]

So there's 9 extra books I'm picking up in February due to double shipping alone, 7 of them being $4. Being that only 2 of the titles I buy are being canceled that means 1) there's an extra $28 in the month that I can't afford, 2) this solves the question of whether or not I give Scarlet Spider a try, and 3) I'm going to have to cut a few more titles. Suck! And that's just off of what Drz posted. Diamond won't open for me for some reason so I can't even see what else is out that month.

I know. The double shipping, and in some cases QUADRUPLE shipping, really hurts my pocket. Unfortunately, there are a TON of great books out there that I'd rather get more from other companies so these Marvel titles will have to get cut.

However, I will be keeping the Spider-books. I'm too much of a Clone Saga fan not to get Scarlet Spider. Not after clamoring for a Scarlet Spider return for about almost a decade now.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

- iFanboy is reporting that Thunderbolts is currently safe at Marvel

- James Asmus is saying that Marvel has guaranteed him that Generation Hope will still be around up to issue #17. He's writing his arc around the fact that it may get cancelled with issue #17 and hope that it continues on afterwards.

- Christos Gage has come out saying that X-Factor and Avengers Academy remain profitable and have stable sales, they're currently safe.

EDIT: Marvel editor Tom Brennan says that X-Factor and Thunderbolts are safe right now.

Good news. Avengers Academy, Thunderbolts, and X-Factor are some of Marvel's best.

 

[runawayboulder]

Thunderbolts regressed pretty bad during Fear Itself. Journey into Mystery and Avenger Academy were the only good tie-ins. I'm lukewarm to T-Bolts lately but I don't want to see it go.

As for Academy, I hope the addition of Hawkeye as an instructor helps the book. Gage should think about adding more classic members. I vote for Vision I and She-Hulk.

 

[Dread]

- iFanboy is reporting that Thunderbolts is currently safe at Marvel

- James Asmus is saying that Marvel has guaranteed him that Generation Hope will still be around up to issue #17. He's writing his arc around the fact that it may get cancelled with issue #17 and hope that it continues on afterwards.

- Christos Gage has come out saying that X-Factor and Avengers Academy remain profitable and have stable sales, they're currently safe.

EDIT: Marvel editor Tom Brennan says that X-Factor and Thunderbolts are safe right now.

Links?

To be fair, the only canceled title that was selling better than AVENGERS ACADEMY and THUNDERBOLTS was X-23, if memory serves. Marvel's cancellation range is 19k with no hope for an ongoing series, and books like HERC and IRON MAN 2.0 had hit that.

Gage is chatting up Newsarama and claims he is working on scripts for issues #27 and #28. He claims that sales went up for the "superhero prom" issue so it may be that Marvel is giving the new direction a chance based on that those grounds. That, or because 2012 is Avengers year anyway, they'd only relaunch it anyway.

Marvel needs to take a page from Vertigo and offer cheap first issues. VERTIGO has offered many of their recent #1 issues for $1 and many of those books have had steady sales - although at lower margins than Marvel would accept. At the very least, making the debut issue more expensive than subsequent issues is a move that repels readers, especially on second and third tier books.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Links?

To be fair, the only canceled title that was selling better than AVENGERS ACADEMY and THUNDERBOLTS was X-23, if memory serves. Marvel's cancellation range is 19k with no hope for an ongoing series, and books like HERC and IRON MAN 2.0 had hit that.

Gage is chatting up Newsarama and claims he is working on scripts for issues #27 and #28. He claims that sales went up for the "superhero prom" issue so it may be that Marvel is giving the new direction a chance based on that those grounds. That, or because 2012 is Avengers year anyway, they'd only relaunch it anyway.

Marvel needs to take a page from Vertigo and offer cheap first issues. VERTIGO has offered many of their recent #1 issues for $1 and many of those books have had steady sales - although at lower margins than Marvel would accept. At the very least, making the debut issue more expensive than subsequent issues is a move that repels readers, especially on second and third tier books.

James Asmus on Generation Hope

Hi guys, James here. (the new writer of Gen Hope)

I've continually been told that are definitely getting issues 13-17. I've been structuring things with those five issues in mind - working toward a big, (hopefully) satisfying story that does a lot to evolve and pay-off our characters.
You'll just have to trust me when I say that the story will be worthwhile and relevant to the future whether or not the book continues after 17.

And what makes the biggest difference as to whether or not it continues past that point is, of course, sales. So with that in mind, the BEST thing you can do if you like what we're doing is to buy it.

I sincerely appreciate the good will and enthusiasm here on a lot of the boards for this book. I genuinely love what Generation Hope is AND what it can be. I look forward to spilling out more emotional / crazy / creepy / funny and/or meaningful moments for any of you who might be interested!

Hopefully some more people will check it out. But either way, I'm grateful for any and all time I'll get to spend with these characters and with you guys and gals reading.

Kenji&Martha forever,
+james

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=392727&page=3

Christos Gage has come out saying that Avengers Academy is safe for the time being on his Twitter:

So one more time, AVENGERS ACADEMY is in no danger that I know of, we are planning into the mid-30s, longer than INITIATIVE ran......but if we lost a couple thousand sales it would be a very bad thing. We've been rock steady for a year now but u can see why I'm nervous.

http://***********/#!/Christosgage

Unfortunately I can't find the Tweet from Brennan that said that Thunderbolts and X-Factor are safe. However iFanboy reports that Thunderbolts is apparently safe (http://ifanboy.com/articles/cancelpocalypse-whos-next/). X-Factor is probably safe as long as the sales remain stable and Peter David is on the book, he really is doing everything he can to keep the book going, he even took a paycut.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Thunderbolts regressed pretty bad during Fear Itself. Journey into Mystery and Avenger Academy were the only good tie-ins. I'm lukewarm to T-Bolts lately but I don't want to see it go.

As for Academy, I hope the addition of Hawkeye as an instructor helps the book. Gage should think about adding more classic members. I vote for Vision I and She-Hulk.

Both of them would be great.

 

[runawayboulder]

I'd say rotate old WCA members in and out but I doubt having Moon Knight's crazy ass around them would help.

 

[CConn]

I like how we're all in agreement now that Marvel's editorial staff sucks it.

 

[Number 6]

Jesus, that's a lot of double shipping. And what the hell are they trying to pull with that Venom stuff? The regular title plus .1-.4? Damn. I don't really get a whole lot of Marvel titles anymore, so I guess it doesn't matter a whole lot to me, but that's something to see.