The NEW OFFICIAL Green Arrow Thread!

[Pluto]

I see. Interesting. A superhero loser. He isn't a Rocky type right? Is he more that loveable loser like the Cubs?

 

[Manic]

You didn't find Rocky lovable? That first movie was awesome.

Anyway, I guess you could call Green Arrow a lovable loser. As it's been said before, the thing that makes Green Arrow amazing is the fact that he has no powers. No metahuman abilities. He's not from another planet. He doesn't know magic. He's not a detective. His only gadgets are the occasional arrow that blows up or has glue on the end. Even his wife and son are superbly better hand-to-hand fighters than he is. He doesn't even have a tricked-out car anymore. He's just a guy. He's the superhero that proves that anybody can make a difference.

Also, he's a smart-mouthed, womanizing ultra-liberal. Once he gets talking, he's just so damn entertaining. He's best friends with conservative Hal Jordan, and argues with Hawkman whenever they're in the same room.

 

[Pluto]

NO NO! Don't get me wrong! I love Rocky!!!! But he always would win most of the time and when he did lose he would come back and win.
The Cubs never win. And from what I'm reading here the Green Arrow never wins.

NO NO! I LOVE ROCKY! I was just wondering if GA was like a Rocky type or just a loveable loser.

 

[Manic]

He's more of a Rocky type. He tends to lose at first, then bounce back in the rematch. Or just barely win. Or he gets a good stalemate. Although sometimes he just plain loses.

 

[The Major]

Manic:

Ollie acts more like John McClane then Rocky IMO.

Pluto:

GA did manage to defeat Deathstroke on his own in Winnick's series.

 

[chris moore]

I liked the reasoning in the OYL island tale for his learning the new fighting techniques. Escalation and him being who he is with a bow not being enough anymore.

What I find odd is that people ***** and ***** about Ollie becoming an amazing fighter and detracting from Connor's prowess. But no one seems to complain that there's now four people who're amazing with a bow, and one of them is Connor. At least we should see more tricky shots from Ollie, or everyone but Ollie relying on trick arrows.

I have no problem with the man recognising that in today's world maybe the bow isnt going to always be enough and choosing to take every step possible to improve himself. Its better I think to pull a spidey and have Ollie adapt his new fighting techniques to using his bow in the same way Spidey combines his speed and agility into a unique fighting style. Bering able to land a solid roundhouse after blocking a difficult blow while bring round the bow for a shot that slams the guy into a wall by his shoulder.

 

[Pluto]

I might be begining to like him if he is like Rocky....

 

[Manic]

I liked the reasoning in the OYL island tale for his learning the new fighting techniques. Escalation and him being who he is with a bow not being enough anymore.

What I find odd is that people ***** and ***** about Ollie becoming an amazing fighter and detracting from Connor's prowess. But no one seems to complain that there's now four people who're amazing with a bow, and one of them is Connor. At least we should see more tricky shots from Ollie, or everyone but Ollie relying on trick arrows.

I have no problem with the man recognising that in today's world maybe the bow isnt going to always be enough and choosing to take every step possible to improve himself. Its better I think to pull a spidey and have Ollie adapt his new fighting techniques to using his bow in the same way Spidey combines his speed and agility into a unique fighting style. Bering able to land a solid roundhouse after blocking a difficult blow while bring round the bow for a shot that slams the guy into a wall by his shoulder.

The way many of us see things, Ollie should be the best with a bow, but Connor should be the best in a fist fight. I have no problem with Ollie becoming a better fighter (and I love that he's using a sword now), but I still think Connor should be better. I mean, Connor is on Lady Shiva's level.

 

[chris moore]

Presumably Connor did just as much training while on the island and therefore he improved his skill by the same amount as Ollie. But as he started out at #5 in the DCU or something, he'd be up to #3. Connor learned at the monastary, which most likely had multiple forms to teach. But on the island he probably learned a few more new styles to combine with his standard training.

 

[BrianWilly]

He is very beatable. In fact, he was beaten by the bad guys several times in his own book. That's part of Green Arrow's appeal; there's always a good chance he'll lose, so you never know how his storylines are going to end.

I absolutely do not consider that part of GA's appeal. At the least, I do not enjoy how far certain writers have taken that. For basically the entire second half of Winick's run on his solo title, Ollie didn't win a single fight against a villain except the one against Deathstroke OYL. The plot of his stories was that Ollie gets beaten half to death and loses, the villains win, the end. That's not enjoyable. That's not why anyone should be reading any stories. And a hero that never wins is not a particularly good hero.

I thought that he was going to fix this OYL with Ollie going to train on a island, but lo and behold, it wasn't long before we sank back into the cycle of Ollie losing, villains winning, the end, on to the next story. It was ridiculous.

 

[Pluto]

Don't you love matchups?

 

[Manic]

He beat Brick... kinda. And the team eventually took down Drakon. It seems like Ollie loses to his enemies at first, then gets a rematch where he either wins or there's a stalemate.

I like that, at least. I can see how his constantly losing gets annoying, though.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I absolutely do not consider that part of GA's appeal. At the least, I do not enjoy how far certain writers have taken that. For basically the entire second half of Winick's run on his solo title, Ollie didn't win a single fight against a villain except the one against Deathstroke OYL. The plot of his stories was that Ollie gets beaten half to death and loses, the villains win, the end. That's not enjoyable. That's not why anyone should be reading any stories. And a hero that never wins is not a particularly good hero.

I thought that he was going to fix this OYL with Ollie going to train on a island, but lo and behold, it wasn't long before we sank back into the cycle of Ollie losing, villains winning, the end, on to the next story. It was ridiculous.

I thought it was pretty clear that the island training was just another step in Winick's campaign to systematically render Connor completely useless.

 

[chris moore]

I think no matter how much training Ollie has had, he's still who he is, and therefore he is always going to be prone to lashing out or letting his emotions get the better of his fighting style. Connor on the otherhand retains his composure and sues every enemy's strength against him - the soft arts as he calls them. So while we might complain about Winick and his diabolical plans for Connor, as long as we bear in mind the kind of person Connor is supposed to be, then he'll always have an edge in fighting to Ollie and most everyone else.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Not "always." I'm pretty sure Ollie could beat a comatose vegetable.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

what are the top 3 Green Arrow books to get?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

In no particular order: Archer's Quest, Longbow Hunters, and Quiver.

 

[Anubis]

Though the particular order to read those in would be Longbow Hunters, Quiver, then Archer's Quest.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Pertaining to the discussion about Ollie losing and such?

Yea...it does appeal to me. He is a hero that struggles immensely. Some people have emotional baggage and such...which I'm not saying he does not also have, but how many top that off with also actually not being able to overcome the villain's efforts at times?

Watching him struggle until he finally will win, is something I'm willing to sit back and wait for in each story.

 

[BrianWilly]

In terms of being a superhero, losing to your opponents eight times out of ten isn't just stupid, it's also dangerous and unrealistic (for this world). If the times that your nemeses beat you far outnumber the times that you beat them, then you freaking suck ass as a superhero and it's a wonder anyone would trust you to protect yourself, much less the innocents in your town, or the world. And as far as seeing him "struggle until he finally will win"? It'd be nice if the winning part didn't happen once every seventeen or eighteen issues or so.

I'm pretty sure Ollie could beat a comatose vegetable.

Under Winick? I'm pretty sure that a comatose vegetable would beat Ollie within an inch of his life, blow up his house, learn his secret identity, threaten to rape him, blow up his secret lair that he was staying in since his house blew up, and then escape in a puff of smoke just as the Justice League shows up.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Not if the comatose vegetable is Connor. Remember, Ollie's better than him in every way.

 

[Anubis]

Except for being in a coma. Connor is kicking his old man's ass in that.

 

[Darthphere]

Under Winick? I'm pretty sure that a comatose vegetable would beat Ollie within an inch of his life, blow up his house, learn his secret identity, threaten to rape him, blow up his secret lair that he was staying in since his house blew up, and then escape in a puff of smoke just as the Justice League shows up.

You forgot AIDS.

 

[chris moore]

Any chance we can leave the Winick bashing, Connor whining stuff behind for once? There's a new writer coming, so some of Winick's stuff may be addressed for the better.

And in all fairness, regardless of how much better Connor is than Ollie at hand to hand, Winick did recognise that Ollie's trademark skill might not be enough anymore in todays comicbook world of tech based villains and automatic weapons, and took steps to make him better (and please start thinking that proportionately Connor is going to be that much better too - or even better than we think given he stayed behind on the island with the instructors). Every third costumed hero in the DCU is a martial arts meister nowadays, so a bow shooting liberal with a good right hook and vague street fighting skills is likely to get his arse handed to him more and more often and require the JL to show up in the 11th hour.

Back in the day, Roy turning to drugs because of Ollie being Ollie was a major MAJOR story for comics (alongside Harry Osborn and LSD of course), and forced Ollie to face his role as a father/father figure and forced Roy to grow and step out of the old man's shadow. Now, Mia, who never wanted the life of hooking she was subjected to, has become the victim of a different kind of revelation resulting from the choices she made or was forced to make. And because of it she has chosen to make herself better than she was, to ensure other girls don't have to risk the disease she has got, by taking down those who would drag them into that life. And Ollie, like before, is forced to realise he has to help shape this young woman, and to be a better father figure to her than he might have been to Roy so that she never stops bettering her life and the life of others (though it wouldnt hurt for an arc to focus on Mia trying to bust a prostitution or foreign trade ring or something - a harsh reminder of her past)

 

[TheCorpulent1]

When Winick stops sucking and f***ing up Connor, we'll leave the bashing and whining (respectively, of course) behind.