The Next Avengers Line-Up

[Web-Head]

I really want the next couple Avengers films to really show them as a team, not be some massive crossover event. We really haven't gotten much of that. The closest was AOU, but even then they were on the run most of the film.

So in that context, characters who wouldn't join a standing team should sit out (Namely Strange and T'Challa) And the beautiful thing about the MCU is that they can take a risk like that to maintain the integrity of the story and still make massive money. Captain Marvel, Spider-Man, and Ant-Man/Wasp are the franchise leads who could fit into the team dynamic. And including Shuri will be nearly as big a draw as T'Challa himself. She broke out in a HUGE way.

Showing them as a team as well as a smaller scale for me. Well, as small as you can make an Avengers film

 

[Boom]

Why Beast, of all the X-men?

He's one of the first X-Men to cross over to the Avengers lineup.

 

[Protar]

I really want the next couple Avengers films to really show them as a team, not be some massive crossover event. We really haven't gotten much of that. The closest was AOU, but even then they were on the run most of the film.

So in that context, characters who wouldn't join a standing team should sit out (Namely Strange and T'Challa) And the beautiful thing about the MCU is that they can take a risk like that to maintain the integrity of the story and still make massive money. Captain Marvel, Spider-Man, and Ant-Man/Wasp are the franchise leads who could fit into the team dynamic. And including Shuri will be nearly as big a draw as T'Challa himself. She broke out in a HUGE way.

You're right on that last point. But BP is a billion dollar draw. If anything, expect him to be the leader of the Avengers.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You're right on that last point. But BP is a billion dollar draw. If anything, expect him to be the leader of the Avengers.

Eh, Iron Man was the most profitable member of The Avengers, but Cap was still the leader. BP being a billion dollar character I don't think will make that decision. I think it will be Captain Marvel.

 

[Protar]

Eh, Iron Man was the most profitable member of The Avengers, but Cap was still the leader. BP being a billion dollar character I don't think will make that decision. I think it will be Captain Marvel.

Really they were co-leaders, and certainly, the first two Avengers films have focused on Iron Man over Cap. Perhaps focal Avenger is more what I'm talking about.

Now as far as who the focal Avenger will be going forwards that depends on how well Captain Marvel will do. I tend to think that it will not be quite the cultural phenomenon that Black Panther was even though it will no doubt be hugely successful.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Really they were co-leaders, and certainly, the first two Avengers films have focused on Iron Man over Cap. Perhaps focal Avenger is more what I'm talking about.

Now as far as who the focal Avenger will be going forwards that depends on how well Captain Marvel will do. I tend to think that it will not be quite the cultural phenomenon that Black Panther was even though it will no doubt be hugely successful.

I think they were pretty even in focus, personally. Their screen time amount was close. AoU maybe leaned slightly more Tony overall (given his connection to Ultron), but Avengers I think was fairly equal between them.

 

[DrCosmic]

I think they were pretty even in focus, personally. Their screen time amount was close. AoU maybe leaned slightly more Tony overall (given his connection to Ultron), but Avengers I think was fairly equal between them.

Interesting bits about this. Cap had more screen time in both, however, Tony was more central to the plot in both. I think while Cap is widening the universe, Tony is deepening the film. As a comic fan I personally was shocked and aghast at how many casual fans genuinely believed that Iron Man is the leader of the Avengers. Now, these same people believe Wolverine is the leader of the X-Men, so they're obviously *wrong* but it is a common and I'd dare say the majority perception.

AoU screentime

 

[Spider-Fan]

Interesting bits about this. Cap had more screen time in both, however, Tony was more central to the plot in both. I think while Cap is widening the universe, Tony is deepening the film. As a comic fan I personally was shocked and aghast at how many casual fans genuinely believed that Iron Man is the leader of the Avengers. Now, these same people believe Wolverine is the leader of the X-Men, so they're obviously *wrong* but it is a common and I'd dare say the majority perception.

AoU screentime

I am not sure he was more central to the plot in The Avengers. Certainly he was in AoU. I think The Avengers was more even in that regard, though.

But yes, Cap won the screen time battle in both films. I am confused how you can think Iron Man was leader, especially when he literally says Cap is the leader and he just makes everyone look cool in AoU, LOL.

 

[DrCosmic]

I was confused as well. I think a lot of people see leadership as synonymous with being the front man, and Iron Man is *Definitely* the front man. Especially in Avengers, imho, because he's the one who has the arc. He goes from being an Avengers reject to telling Cap to "call it" for the final battle and "laying down on the wire" for the other guy. He's the one who figures out Loki's plan and verbally jousts with him because Loki's psychoses are a reflection of his own. He, by laying down is THE person who saves the day, while others just keep the fighting from spreading or try to nuke the city. Iron Man is absolutely the anchor and force of Avengers. Cap has a much smaller arc, and he isn't the one whose decisions guide the plot and bring about the thematic resolution. He's a foil. Essentially "the guy in the sports movie that's been with the team a long time and doesn't take kindly to this newcomer who thinks he knows everything."

 

[Spider-Fan]

I was confused as well. I think a lot of people see leadership as synonymous with being the front man, and Iron Man is *Definitely* the front man. Especially in Avengers, imho, because he's the one who has the arc. He goes from being an Avengers reject to telling Cap to "call it" for the final battle and "laying down on the wire" for the other guy. He's the one who figures out Loki's plan and verbally jousts with him because Loki's psychoses are a reflection of his own. He, by laying down is THE person who saves the day, while others just keep the fighting from spreading or try to nuke the city. Iron Man is absolutely the anchor and force of Avengers. Cap has a much smaller arc, and he isn't the one whose decisions guide the plot and bring about the thematic resolution. He's a foil. Essentially "the guy in the sports movie that's been with the team a long time and doesn't take kindly to this newcomer who thinks he knows everything."

Black Widow I would argue found a way to stop the portal. Yes, Iron Man blew up the mother ship, but Black Widow discovered how to stop the breach. Everyone also got to verbally joust with Loki, with Hulk actually being the one to take him out of the equation. Tony's arc is vital for sure, but I think you can argue the importance of Widow, Banner, and Cap to the victory and their overall place in the story as well. It's fairly even. Thor and Hawkeye I would say are your odd men out.

Even Whedon himself said this:

“I set out with a very simple problem: There is no reason for these people to be in the same movie. So that’s what my movie has to be about. So much of the movie takes place from Steve Rogers’ (Chris Evans) perspective, since he’s the guy who just woke up and sees this weird ass world. Everyone else has been living in it.”

So Whedon put the story focus mainly from Cap's point of view, and I do read the movie that way.

 

[Boom]

How about we throw Nova and Captain Britain into the mix? I know technically they're affiliated with the Secret Avengers.

 

[DrCosmic]

Black Widow I would argue found a way to stop the portal. Yes, Iron Man blew up the mother ship, but Black Widow discovered how to stop the breach. Everyone also got to verbally joust with Loki, with Hulk actually being the one to take him out of the equation. Tony's arc is vital for sure, but I think you can argue the importance of Widow, Banner, and Cap to the victory and their overall place in the story as well. It's fairly even. Thor and Hawkeye I would say are your odd men out.

Even Whedon himself said this:

So Whedon put the story focus mainly from Cap's point of view, and I do read the movie that way.

I've argued the same thing for Widow, but when I went back and looked at the film, the villain is defeated, the army crumpled, and all Widow's cleverness comes to fruition after the fact. Hulk takes Loki out of the equation, but not before Tony actually solves the equation with Loki, explaining why he's already lost, including foreshadowing "We have a Hulk." This is not to say that Widow, Banner and Cap do not have important perspectives that make the movie what it is, or that they were not intended by the director to be important, but they don't stop the Chitauri, or anyone who hasn't already lost.

EDIT: I think it's probably worth noting that these other characters are important to the movie, and they are not important to defeating the Chitauri, which underlines the fact that Avengers isn't actually *about* defeating the Chitauri.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I've argued the same thing for Widow, but when I went back and looked at the film, the villain is defeated, the army crumpled, and all Widow's cleverness comes to fruition after the fact. Hulk takes Loki out of the equation, but not before Tony actually solves the equation with Loki, explaining why he's already lost, including foreshadowing "We have a Hulk." This is not to say that Widow, Banner and Cap do not have important perspectives that make the movie what it is, or that they were not intended by the director to be important, but they don't stop the Chitauri, or anyone who hasn't already lost.

EDIT: I think it's probably worth noting that these other characters are important to the movie, and they are not important to defeating the Chitauri, which underlines the fact that Avengers isn't actually *about* defeating the Chitauri.

The Chitari are the face of the threat Loki is bringing with him, but at the end of the day, The Avengers is mainly about the group coming together and bonding. Which is why even though Tony is the one who tosses the nuke into the mothership, it doesn't inherently make him the focus. Really, the movie is more concerned about the Tesseract and the fight to get it back.

 

[Web-Head]

How about we throw Nova and Captain Britain into the mix? I know technically they're affiliated with the Secret Avengers.

I've been pulling for Nova for a while and after Infinity War, it makes a ton of sense.

Captain Britain I'd be cool with too

 

[Abudefduf]

Why Beast, of all the X-men?

Because he has a long history with the Avengers, and because he's a great, unique character who deserves to finally be done justice on the big screen.

And speaking of characters with a long history with the Avengers... She-Hulk is an absolute must for Phase 4.

 

[HammerDown]

So apparently Captain Marvel is the new Captain America of the team. Mostly because of her core values it seems... So let's do a fun exercise, who is the new Iron Man like character, the new Thor, Hulk... The new team seems to be quite different than the original one and the team dynamics will likely be different too but we can still make a wild guess.

Captain America - Captain Marvel (Core values)
Iron Man - Spider-Man ? (The charismatic prodigy)
Thor - Black Panther ? (Both royalty...)
Hulk - Doctor Strange (A character to be sprinkled around because of their power)
Black Widow - Valkyrie ? (Badass lone female warrior)

What do you guys think? Captain Marvel, Spider-Man, Black Panther, Doctor Strange, Valkyrie... seems like a pretty good lineup for a future team.

 

[HammerDown]

Ant-Man, The Wasp... will likely be part of the new team as well.

White Wolf i see him being more in Wakanda with Black Panther.

I think Falcon, War Machine, SW... might be out of the team after A4. If Marvel is going after new blood then it makes sense to reenergize the new franchises and future team up Avengers movies with different and new characters. The olds one might still show up sometimes.

 

[Tg11]

Captain Marvel (Captain America)
Spider-Man (Iron Man)
Black Panther (Thor)
Dr Strange (Hulk)
Valkyrie (Black Widow)
Ant Man
Wasp
White Wolf

Fantastic Four and X-Men will cross over similar to Guardians but it will be built up