The Official Black Panther Thread

[Donald Thomas]

T'Challa definitely belongs in the top 8. He has a Ph.D in physics and is one of the top inventors in the Marvel Universe below Richards, Doom, Pym, and Stark. He also turned Wakanda into a superpower.

Also, Batman so belongs in the top minds of the DCU as well.

Aloha,
T'Challa is responsible for creating the most advanced technological society on Earth, not Von Doom nor any of the other big brains of the MU.There are several types of intelligence.As a leader of people within a highly technological framework, there is none greater than T'Challa.This is why I say that the Wakandan society has yet to be fully explored.Wakanda is the African nation equivalent to Eureka or rather Eureka is the small American town equivalent to Wakanda!

Spidey rules except in Wakanda

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I imagine Doctor Doom could develop Latveria into a nation technologically advanced enough to at least rival Wakanda if he didn't spend all his time oppressing the populace. He loves his people but he keeps them in an uneducated, agrarian society so none of them can rise to challenge him.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Aloha,
T'Challa is responsible for creating the most advanced technological society on Earth, not Von Doom nor any of the other big brains of the MU.There are several types of intelligence.As a leader of people within a highly technological framework, there is none greater than T'Challa.This is why I say that the Wakandan society has yet to be fully explored.Wakanda is the African nation equivalent to Eureka or rather Eureka is the small American town equivalent to Wakanda!

Spidey rules except in Wakanda

Both the United States under Reed Richards and Tony Stark and Latveria under Victor Von Doom are technologically superior. Wakanda is #3 due to T'Challa.

 

[TimBisley]

I was always under the impression that Wakanda was the most technologically superior country on the planet. You don't see a lot of hover-cars in the US.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, overall, it seems like Wakanda's way beyond the US and certainly Latveria. I suppose if you want to lump Doom's massive stockpile of personal high-tech stuff into "Latveria's technological advancements," it might rival Wakanda. He has a working time machine and a doohicky that can transport people to Heaven and Hell, after all. But I don't think that's what Donald was talking about. I think he meant the country as a whole, and Latveria as a whole is still a very primitive agrarian society. The US literally can't be as advanced as Wakanda because the US is the touchstone of reality in the comics. It has to stay relatively similar to the real, modern-day US.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Yeah, overall, it seems like Wakanda's way beyond the US and certainly Latveria. I suppose if you want to lump Doom's massive stockpile of personal high-tech stuff into "Latveria's technological advancements," it might rival Wakanda. He has a working time machine and a doohicky that can transport people to Heaven and Hell, after all. But I don't think that's what Donald was talking about. I think he meant the country as a whole, and Latveria as a whole is still a very primitive agrarian society. The US literally can't be as advanced as Wakanda because the US is the touchstone of reality in the comics. It has to stay relatively similar to the real, modern-day US.

Fraction is having Stark revolutionize the automobile industry in Invincible Iron Man by developing a car that doesn't run on fossil fuels, not only that but the military is powered by Stark Tech with the Helicarrier designed by Stark and Richards and the US is filled with consumer versions of technology developed by Stark and Richards. The US is #1 due to these two men. If Wakanda got into a war with the United States, there would be no way Wakanda could win.

And I consider Doom's personal tech in the technological capabilities of Latveria. Wakanda and Latveria are technologically advanced in different ways. T'Challa is benevolent to share his techonology while Doom keeps his superior technology all to himself.

 

[Anubis]

All of which pales in comparison to that of Wundagore mountain.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Does it? I thought they were just the home of flying motorcycles--sorry, "atomic steeds"--and animal-people. And occasionally Quicksilver.

 

[E-Man]

Doomwar reminds me a lot of World War Hulk. It had a really great beginning, but the ending fell flat. The heroes in both stories just whipped out a device that shut the villains down, but the question is why the hell didn't they do that in the first place. It was a solid read, but it could have been better if it lived up to the potential of the first two issues. They got the country back too fast and easy, and then they beat Doom too easy in the end.

As for the no vibranium thing, I think it really depends on how things are written after that. If Wakanda completely collapses and becomes annexed by some other country, then it really just tears down so much of what made the country great. If they use the opportunity to show that Wakanda is struggling but isn't 100% reliable on virbanium, then you could have some really good stories showing Storm and T'Challa's leadership and intelligence.

Shuri can go eat an oven toasted bag of **** and die of dehydration. She's a worthless character, and her being Black Panther is as idiotic as anything that has happened in the 40+ year history of the Black Panther mythos. So T'Challa is out of his coma, but she's still the Black Panther and leading the country? What kind of logic is that? If Obama was in a coma and Joe Biden took over for a month, why would Biden still be president if Obama is well enough to do his job again? I know this is a fantasy world, but they should just completely ignore the same rules they have established over the years. T'Challa needs to get his title back somehow, rebuild the country, and deal with new villains based in Wakanda.

 

[Donald Thomas]

Both the United States under Reed Richards and Tony Stark and Latveria under Victor Von Doom are technologically superior. Wakanda is #3 due to T'Challa.

Aloha,
I don't think you can argue with that. But, I don't see where the people of the US or Latveria are at a higher quality of living than the Wakandans.The Latverians live under the tyranny of Doom, and while the resources of both Richards and Stark are at the disposal of the US, the entire US is not enjoying the technology of Stark and Richards in the manner that the Wakandan people are enjoying their tech.
Spidey rules except in Wakanda

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It's 'cause Reed Richards and Tony Stark are both filthy capitalists. You want their innovations, you better be willing to pay through the nose. Jerks.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Aloha,
I don't think you can argue with that. But, I don't see where the people of the US or Latveria are at a higher quality of living than the Wakandans.The Latverians live under the tyranny of Doom, and while the resources of both Richards and Stark at at the disposal of the US, the entire US is not enjoying the technology of Stark and Richards in the manner that the Wakandan people are enjoying their tech.
Spidey rules except in Wakanda

The entire US population is affected to some degree with the technology that Stark and Richards offer. Even more soon with Stark Resilient eventually going to offer vehicles arc reactor technology at low cost. You also have to take into account that the United States has a much higher population than that of Wakanda, it's harder to distribute the wealth in a country with a high population that is deeply rooted in capitalism.

Meanwhile you have Wakanda which has a much smaller population making it easier to distribute the technology and rulers who have more socialistic tendencies than the leaders of the United States.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

So you're basically basing the countries' relative advancement on potential. Stark and Richards could provide all kinds of great stuff for Americans, Doom could put a working time machine in every Latverian home, etc. That seems flawed to me. Simply having tech is not really a measure of a country's advancement, as far as I'm concerned. Wakanda's the only one that's actually made most of this stuff easily--key word there--available to its populace, thus increasing the standard of living per person to a level well beyond that of the US and light years beyond that of Latveria. Regardless of population size, if the US were really so much more advanced, I would think Reed and Stark and Pym and the others could come up with a way to distribute their advancements to the people who need them if they truly wanted to. What good is technology if it's not actively improving the day-to-day lives of as many people as possible?

 

[hippie_hunter]

So you're basically basing the countries' relative advancement on potential. Stark and Richards could provide all kinds of great stuff for Americans, Doom could put a working time machine in every Latverian home, etc. That seems flawed to me. Simply having tech is not really a measure of a country's advancement, as far as I'm concerned. Wakanda's the only one that's actually made most of this stuff easily--key word there--available to its populace, thus increasing the standard of living per person to a level well beyond that of the US and light years beyond that of Latveria. Regardless of population size, if the US were really so much more advanced, I would think Reed and Stark and Pym and the others could come up with a way to distribute their advancements to the people who need them if they truly wanted to. What good is technology if it's not actively improving the day-to-day lives of as many people as possible?

Stark and Richards are limited to providing great technology to Americans by the simple fact that it is impossible to provide everything to 300+ million Americans. Neither of them have the money to do so. No one has the money to do so. They're getting their tech out as much as possible, but you can only do so much. That and Marvel writers are ******ed enough to still try and pass the Marvel Universe as the real world.

Dr. Doom has the ability to do so, he just chooses not to because he's a tyrant. Instead Latveria's technological advancement is solely based on Doom.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Exactly, which is why I said you're basing it on potential. I'd have to go with Donald on this one: relative standards of living are a much better criterion for comparing countries' overall technological advancement.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Exactly, which is why I said you're basing it on potential. I'd have to go with Donald on this one: relative standards of living are a much better criterion for comparing countries' overall technological advancement.

I see actual technology as the criterion for overall technological advancement. The technology in the United States and Latveria are more advanced than that of Wakanda.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That's an oversimplification. You're talking about individuals, not the country as a whole. The technology of Doctor Doom and a handful of others are more advanced than that of Wakanda. They're individuals holding onto said technology for personal use, for the most part. The few advances from Richards and Stark that have trickled down to the masses can't compare to the technological wonders that permeate every inch of Wakanda and its citizens' lives. Blame it on Doom's selfishness and the meta-reasoning that Marvel wants to keep the US similar to the real world, but that doesn't really change how they're portrayed respectively within the comics.

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, Wakanda is the most technologically advanced country on Marvel Planet Earth. (Especially now that the Inhumans have f**ked off)

 

[E-Man]

The thing to remember about Wakanda though is that a large portion of their population is still tribal. In the Priest series there was mention that the tribal dwellers outnumbered the city dwellers 8 to 1, and that the technology in the city was all of the stuff you normally see. In the city there are flying cars, magnetic trains, etc. while the tribal dwellers still looked like pre-colonial Africa.

Of course that could have been done away with when Hudlin took over. They never talked about the tension between the tribal and city dwellers at all, and the Dora Milaje changed from being representatives of tribes to ease the tension in Wakanda to chicks that can fight from some random tribe. Maybe the whole country is tech based now.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Hmm, well in that case, Wakanda might just be on par with the US as far as standard of living per capita goes...

 

[Donald Thomas]

The thing to remember about Wakanda though is that a large portion of their population is still tribal. In the Priest series there was mention that the tribal dwellers outnumbered the city dwellers 8 to 1, and that the technology in the city was all of the stuff you normally see. In the city there are flying cars, magnetic trains, etc. while the tribal dwellers still looked like pre-colonial Africa.

Of course that could have been done away with when Hudlin took over. They never talked about the tension between the tribal and city dwellers at all, and the Dora Milaje changed from being representatives of tribes to ease the tension in Wakanda to chicks that can fight from some random tribe. Maybe the whole country is tech based now.

Aloha,
This is why the whole Wakandan society needs to be featured more. When Reed Richards and the FF first went to Wakanda, Richards was blown away by the entire society, not just the city. The Wakandan people choose to keep their traditional attire and LOOK, but the society is the most technological in the world from day one of their appearance in the MU. I cannot consider Doom to be highly intelligent when he keeps his people in terror. He is a brilliant individual but a poor leader and a despot.
Spidey rules except in Wakanda

 

[E-Man]

Hmm, well in that case, Wakanda might just be on par with the US as far as standard of living per capita goes...

Since Marvel seems to be sticking with Hudlin's version they probably are. Since he never established how big Wakanda is, I guess it's still "the size of New Jersey" with Kirby tech. They were always supposed to be technologically advanced, but Hudlin really amped it up ad made it seem like they've always been this utopia.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Aloha,
This is why the whole Wakandan society needs to be featured more. When Reed Richards and the FF first went to Wakanda, Richards was blown away by the entire society, not just the city. The Wakandan people choose to keep their traditional attire and LOOK, but the society is the most technological in the world from day one of their appearance in the MU. I cannot consider Doom to be highly intelligent when he keeps his people in terror. He is a brilliant individual but a poor leader and a despot.
Spidey rules except in Wakanda

He doesn't keep them in terror. Latverians are supposedly very happy. He just keeps them uneducated.

 

[Anubis]

Ignorance is bliss.....and anybody that says different gets vaporized.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He probably at least hauls them off to the dungeons before he vaporizes them, at least. Doom is not a heartless man.