The Official Boxing Thread!!!

[Iron_Stark]

JMM got robbed yet again.

This must be music to Mayweather's ears, now he can just continue to sit back and continue to fight his bum of the month streak.

 

[Iron_Stark]

It's been answered, ad nauseum

No it hasn't. You've never answered it.

Just about everyone he's faced he's made look like a bum, regardless of their level of skill. It's why he's the best of this generation

The best of a generation doesn't duck opponents.

This is the exact reason I think Pacquiao loses decisively. I doubt he would even engage Floyd like he does everyone else, even if he's not smart enough to not do it, Freddie Roach would certainly try to tell him not to.

No, Floyd would be to chicken**** to stand and trade with Manny. If he ran from Baldomir for 12 rounds, I can just imagine what he would do against Manny.

Manny, to date, hasn't fought an accomplished boxer who's just as athletic, if not more, than him. He was a bit faster than Marquez & Morales. Just like Floyd says, it's easy to say what you want to do in the fight, until it's time to do it. If Manny rushes in there and starts getting counterpunched, he will become hesitant, it's not even about speed but anticipation, Floyd sees the opening before it opens, it's really his greatest gift outside of defense.

And if Manny chooses to try and switch his style up just for this particular fight, he'll be a fish out of water trying to box with Mayweather as opposed to fighting him. Either way, it's a lose/lose situation and you know this

Yeah and that's about the only way Floyd would win that fight, in a 12 round defensive borefest.

You don't know how long he was doing that. If it wasn't for Brother Nazim, we still wouldn't know about it

So what's your point? NO ONE knew he was cheating or how long that was going on. Docker is making him out to be a life long cheat and that everyone, including Mayeather knew about it.

Lol, at least he's somewhat entertaining

Not as entertaining as delusional Floyd fans, who buy into his nonsense.

 

[Project862006]

proves how great Floyd really is look what he did to Marquez

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

i feel for Marquez. this is the third time he gets robbed of a fight against Pacroids. and i can't believe Bob Arum has the nerve to want to get a 4th fight between the two. SCREW THAT! why, so Marquez can get screwed over once again?

the entire world saw that Marquez was the one true victor. boxing politics and promoters interests in wanting a Mayweather vs Pacman fight got in the way of the judges giving Marquez the victory. it's disgusting. i am done with boxing.

 

[Docker2.0]

i feel for Marquez. this is the third time he gets robbed of a fight against Pacroids. and i can't believe Bob Arum has the nerve to want to get a 4th fight between the two. SCREW THAT! why, so Marquez can get screwed over once again?

the entire world saw that Marquez was the one true victor. boxing politics and promoters interests in wanting a Mayweather vs Pacman fight got in the way of the judges giving Marquez the victory. it's disgusting. i am done with boxing.

Agreed! You know what's funny? Arum wants that 4th fight between these guys in May.............you know the same day Mayweather has set aside for "the little fella" but that's what I've been saying from jump. Manny doesn't seem to have a mind of his own, it seems Arum tells the guy how to breath. Even other outlets are saying it's Arum holding up a fight deal between Paq and PBF.

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news;_y...cquiao_marquez_rematch_mayweather_arum_111311

 

[Doc Samson]

Not as entertaining as delusional Floyd fans, who buy into his nonsense.

So it's delusional that Pacquiao should've lost (again!!) to a 38 yr old, war-torn Marquez, who happens to be the only person who tried to box with him since his last loss 6 yrs ago? Is it delusional that this same guy giving Manny fits got completely dismantled by Floyd after he was laid off for almost 2 years, when JMM was ranked the number 2 pound for pound fighter in the world by Ring Magazine?

You already didn't think Manny would win against Floyd, after what happened last night, you can't possibly believe Floyd is scared, or chicken ***** or any of that "nonsense", of this guy. Scared of what lol?

Arum wants another fight with Marquez, or a match with Bradley, when are you going to admit that just maybe, he doesn't want his cashcow getting completely milked just yet?

 

[Docker2.0]

Speaking of Bradley..................did anyone see that bs match last night? That dude has got to be the most overrated boxer in the history of the sport. The guy he was fighting last night CLEARLY took a dive! He didn't even get hit when he went down and was even smiling with Bradley asap when the ref stopped it. Another one of Arum's boys fyi. Arum is indeed the new Don King, paying off judges and robbing his fighters so he can live the "american dream", what a jerk.

 

[antonydelfini]

The 1st 2 fights, I wouldn't say JMM got robbed. He just drew and lost in 2 fights that could really have gone other way. In the 3rd fight, I feel that JMM got robbed. The punch stats say differently, that Manny threw and landed more punches (even power punches), but the more accurate, crisper, and more powerful punches were landed by JMM in my opinion. He just seemed to have controlled most of the fight (I gave 7 rounds to JMM, 5 rounds to Manny). But I have to see it again for the 2nd time without the volume and the chanting of the mexican fans because they just cheered louder when JMM does something, and almost no cheering for Pacman everytime he does something. So it is actually a fight worth seeing twice, but at first glance, I gave the fight to JMM.

Now for those who says that Floyd will easily beat Pacman because of his close fights with JMM, remember Ali-Foreman-Frazier, remember Hearns-Duran-Hagler. Seeing Manny's diminished speed though, I would say that Floyd will win as well. But in boxing, you never know (Tyson-Douglas, Pacquiao-Dela Hoya).

And to those who accuse Manny of using steroids, it's plain disgusting without proof and evidence. That man works hard, puts his blood sweat and tears during training and during fights, to accuse Manny of using PEDS without proof, no class at all. No heart. I'm not accusing Marquez of using PEDs, even though his conditioning coach gave PEDs to athletes before, Manny needs the same benefit of the doubt, even more.

 

[Doc Samson]

Now for those who says that Floyd will easily beat Pacman because of his close fights with JMM, remember Ali-Foreman-Frazier, remember Hearns-Duran-Hagler. Seeing Manny's diminished speed though, I would say that Floyd will win as well. But in boxing, you never know (Tyson-Douglas, Pacquiao-Dela Hoya).

I say it not just based on Floyd's fight with JMM, I say it because of Manny's opponents, and I've been saying it ever since people have been clamoring for Manny as some sort of unstoppable opponent.

It's telling, to me, that he has struggled with the only two boxers, technique-wise, that he's ever fought in Marquez & Morales. Everybody else, since & including De La Hoya, have either been over the hill, slow, or brawlers. Or a combination of all those things. Made to order by Bob Arum.

I keep saying this and I guess people just aren't understanding the distinction, but Manny is a worldclass fighter, he's never, ever, been a good sound boxer. He tries to overwhelm people and outwork them, but when you do that with suspect defensive skills your susceptible to counter-punching. He's no different than Felix Trinidad was IMO.

JMM & Morales are the only ones who tried to box, and not brawl, using strategy, and neither one of them are in the stratosphere with Floyd when it comes to that. Pac has admitted himself he has issues with JMM's counter-punching. If he has problems with him doing that, he's in for it if he ever steps into the ring with Mayweather.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

In my opinion, JMM never had a chance against Mayweather simply because Floyd was the bigger and stronger fighter out of the two and Marquez's speed was declining (due to aging).

During the fight, Juan would land direct shots (on the chin/jaw area) and Mayweather shrugged them off as if the punches came from a six year old.

If JMM been 10 years younger and utilized a similar strategy to the other night's, he would have given Floyd trouble but it wasn't meant to be. JMM virtually never had a chance and Mayweather knew it.

 

[The Game]

I say it not just based on Floyd's fight with JMM, I say it because of Manny's opponents, and I've been saying it ever since people have been clamoring for Manny as some sort of unstoppable opponent.

It's telling, to me, that he has struggled with the only two boxers, technique-wise, that he's ever fought in Marquez & Morales. Everybody else, since & including De La Hoya, have either been over the hill, slow, or brawlers. Or a combination of all those things. Made to order by Bob Arum.

I keep saying this and I guess people just aren't understanding the distinction, but Manny is a worldclass fighter, he's never, ever, been a good sound boxer. He tries to overwhelm people and outwork them, but when you do that with suspect defensive skills your susceptible to counter-punching. He's no different than Felix Trinidad was IMO.

JMM & Morales are the only ones who tried to box, and not brawl, using strategy, and neither one of them are in the stratosphere with Floyd when it comes to that. Pac has admitted himself he has issues with JMM's counter-punching. If he has problems with him doing that, he's in for it if he ever steps into the ring with Mayweather.

 

[The Game]

And to those who accuse Manny of using steroids, it's plain disgusting without proof and evidence. That man works hard, puts his blood sweat and tears during training and during fights, to accuse Manny of using PEDS without proof, no class at all. No heart. I'm not accusing Marquez of using PEDs, even though his conditioning coach gave PEDs to athletes before, Manny needs the same benefit of the doubt, even more.

Well written, now can you tell him to take the test please.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

In my opinion, JMM never had a chance against Mayweather simply because Floyd was the bigger and stronger fighter out of the two and Marquez's speed was declining (due to aging).

During the fight, Juan would land direct shots (on the chin/jaw area) and Mayweather shrugged them off as if the punches came from a six year old.

If JMM been 10 years younger and utilized a similar strategy to the other night's, he would have given Floyd trouble but it wasn't meant to be. JMM virtually never had a chance and Mayweather knew it.

x100

 

[Doc Samson]

In my opinion, JMM never had a chance against Mayweather simply because Floyd was the bigger and stronger fighter out of the two and Marquez's speed was declining (due to aging).

During the fight, Juan would land direct shots (on the chin/jaw area) and Mayweather shrugged them off as if the punches came from a six year old.

If JMM been 10 years younger and utilized a similar strategy to the other night's, he would have given Floyd trouble but it wasn't meant to be. JMM virtually never had a chance and Mayweather knew it.

Perhaps, but JMM & Manny are the same size. Manny's been able to get by on sheer speed & aggressiveness against the Welterweights he's faced who couldn't really move and/or also lacked the boxing skill to outfox him. JMM's only other bout at this weight was against Floyd, where he looked terrible, understandably so.

Point being, if JMM was too small for Floyd, Manny certainly would be too. Mayweather wouldn't just stand there and allow Pac to throw hundreds of punches without countering. While everyone has fallen in love with Pac's humble personality & his ability to fight these other Welterweights, let's remember the huge chasm between those guys and Floyd Mayweather jr.

 

[The Game]

 

[Assassin32]

I'm going to watch the replay of Saturday's controversial fight when HBO airs it before Chavez-Manfredo. This will give a chance to rewatch it without beer in my system, so I can sit down and score each round for myself and really figure out what the damage is.

Here's what I saw on first viewing:

- Marquez was definitely in his comfort zone all night, while Manny was always weary of getting countered.

- Marquez managed to stay off his ass for once, which will be huge when I score the bout.

- Pacquiao came on late, just like he did in the first two fights.

- Pacquiao was able to score many sneaky left hand leads, which aided in him winning the Compubox stats for the first time in the trilogy.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

I saw that on boxingscene, that's too good! t:

 

[antonydelfini]

I finally watched the fight again, and I understand now why JMM lost.

Manny is the champ, JMM is the challenger. Manny is the international icon, JMM is not a household name at all.

The point: JMM should have been more agressive than he was last Saturday. He shouldn't have been backpedalling so much since he's the challenger and certainly not the more popular fighter.

Here's the thing. JMM used the backpedalling counterpunching strategy for the 1st 2 fights, he got a draw (he could have lost if the judge scored the 1st round a 10-6 round) and a split decision loss. JMM, used that strategy again for the 3rd time. What was he expecting this time around?

JMM did land the harder blows in the fight, but he's the challenger, and he's fighting an iconic legend in boxing. He should have used a more agressive approach. But what can he do? He gets knocked down when he becomes too agressive. But that is the beauty of the Pac-JMM fights. They are just made for each other.

My conclusion: at 1st viewing I thought JMM was robbed. the 2nd viewing, JMM lost another one because he used the same strategy again for the 3rd time. And Manny indeed landed more blows (JMM the harder blows) and won the last rounds.

 

[antonydelfini]

Well written, now can you tell him to take the test please.

Arum and Manny has agreed to take the tests. It's old news actually.

Anyway, here's a great interview with Floyd. I love that he's in his Pretty Boy persona here and not the annoying Money persona he's used for the past few years. Now this is a likeable Floyd:

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content11193.html

http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content11194.html

 

[B]

Saw the fight & I personally felt Marquez took 7 or 8 rounds, some of them were close but Marquez definatly seemed more successfully landing the more significant punches. Marquez in my view can definatly feel robbed of a victory because of piss poor judging.

I could accept one judge having it as a draw, some of the rounds were close'ish. But the other two having 7 or 8 rounds in favour of Pacquiao.. that is crazy bad as far as I am concerned & indeed it seems the majority of boxing fans, fighters themselves & some pundits also feel.

I saw one guy try to argue a case for Pacquiao that he won based upon the punch stats, but for me those really mean nothing in certain cases & don't tell the whole story of the fight.. I personally feel that Marquez landed the better shots & looked the better fighter on the night.. again.

This is a Marquez that Mayweather comfortably outboxed.. but of course much like after the Mosley bout when Mayweather fought & beat both they were both too old & past their prime, yet when Pacquiao fights them both they are good challengers. Unbelievable stupidity from some delusioned Pacquiao fans.

Really need to get these 2 clowns into a ring so they can end these discussions once & for all, until then it's one persons word against another & boxing math, which as we all know is ******ed.

 

[Docker2.0]

Agreed B! It's not the fact that Paq won, because it was actually so close it could have gone either way(though I think JMM was robbed but that's another issue)...........my thing is how can one judge have it so in favor of Paq. What fight was he watching. It was not that wide in favor of Paq! And Paq threw more punches but a lot of them did not last or they were paper thin. Marquez's punches had zing to them which is why a lot of people(myself included)think it should have been a JMM win or at worse, a draw.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

Manny is the champ, JMM is the challenger. Manny is the international icon, JMM is not a household name at all.

So because Pac is more well known then whom ever he's fighting, he automatically wins? I don't understand this.

Are you saying because Pac is well known the judges will always give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to close fights?

The point: JMM should have been more agressive than he was last Saturday. He shouldn't have been backpedalling

Why should JMM be more agressive, everything he was doing on Saturday was working, he was out boxing Pac all night. Why should JMM fight Pac's fight? You always want your opponent to fight your fight and not the other way around. Let me explain this a bit more...

The strategy in boxing is not to get hit, and to hit/hurt your opponent, right?
JMM was using Pacs aggressiveness to his advantage, this worked all night for JMM Pac kept missing, hitting shoulders, gracing shots off of JMM. Why should JMM change what is working for him and not try to make it a slug-fest like Margarito, Cotto, Hatton did and we all know what happened to them. Out boxing Pac is the only way to beat him. Why is it that when Pac faces actual boxers with an boxing IQ like Mosely, and JMM he has lots of problems with them. Pac has incredible speed and power, so really the only way to neutralize that is to use Pacs aggressiveness against him and out box him.

Oh and the correct boxing term is not backpedalling, it's boxing off your back foot. Many greats have used this method to win.. Ali, Sugar Ray, etc..

so much since he's the challenger and certainly not the more popular fighter.

Again, I don't understand this type of thinking.

Here's the thing. JMM used the backpedalling counterpunching strategy for the 1st 2 fights, he got a draw (he could have lost if the judge scored the 1st round a 10-6 round) and a split decision loss. JMM, used that strategy again for the 3rd time. What was he expecting this time around?

Read above.

JMM did land the harder blows in the fight

The very reason many boxers, sport writers, fans believe JMM won.

but he's the challenger, and he's fighting an iconic legend in boxing.

This makes no sense what so ever! So if the Mavericks make it to the NBA finals again, the Mavericks should automaticly start the game with a 20 point lead because they are not the challengers?

He should have used a more agressive approach. But what can he do? He gets knocked down when he becomes too agressive.

JMM doesn't need to use a more agressive approach if what he is doing is working for him, out boxing Pac.

But that is the beauty of the Pac-JMM fights. They are just made for each other.

No, Arum and Pac are made for each other, together they will never lose a close decision. Ever.

Have Pac face brawlers, boxers with less ring skills and he will still be the great icon you say he is.

My conclusion: at 1st viewing I thought JMM was robbed. the 2nd viewing, JMM lost another one because he used the same strategy again for the 3rd time. And Manny indeed landed more blows (JMM the harder blows) and won the last rounds.

Do yourself a favor and watch it again, this time don't be a bias Pac fan, or a even a JMM fan. Just watch what JMM was doing all night to Pac. The sport of boxing is called the sweet science and not the sweet brawl.

Oh and read this so you will have a better understanding of how to score a boxing match and boxing strategies to win...
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/scoring.htm

 

[antonydelfini]

So because Pac is more well known then whom ever he's fighting, he automatically wins? I don't understand this.

Are you saying because Pac is well known the judges will always give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to close fights?


Why should JMM be more agressive, everything he was doing on Saturday was working, he was out boxing Pac all night. Why should JMM fight Pac's fight? You always want your opponent to fight your fight and not the other way around. Let me explain this a bit more...

The strategy in boxing is not to get hit, and to hit/hurt your opponent, right?
JMM was using Pacs aggressiveness to his advantage, this worked all night for JMM Pac kept missing, hitting shoulders, gracing shots off of JMM. Why should JMM change what is working for him and not try to make it a slug-fest like Margarito, Cotto, Hatton did and we all know what happened to them. Out boxing Pac is the only way to beat him. Why is it that when Pac faces actual boxers with an boxing IQ like Mosely, and JMM he has lots of problems with them. Pac has incredible speed and power, so really the only way to neutralize that is to use Pacs aggressiveness against him and out box him.

Oh and the correct boxing term is not backpedalling, it's boxing off your back foot. Many greats have used this method to win.. Ali, Sugar Ray, etc..


Again, I don't understand this type of thinking?


Read above.


The very reason many boxers, sport writers, fans believe JMM won.


This makes no sense what so ever! So if the Mavericks make it to the NBA finals again, the Mavericks should automaticly start the game with a 20 point lead because they are not the challengers?


JMM doesn't need to use a more agressive approach if what he is doing is working for him, out boxing Pac.


No, Arum and Pac are made for each other, together they will never lose a close decision. Ever.

Have Pac face brawlers, boxers with less ring skills and he will still be the great icon you say he is.


Do yourself a favor and watch it again, this time don't be a bias Pac fan, or a even a JMM fan. Just watch what JMM was doing all night to Pac. The sport of boxing is called the sweet science and not the sweet brawl.

Oh and read this so you will have a better understanding of how to score a boxing match and boxing strategies to win...
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/scoring.htm

Sigh. You don't need to school me on how to score a boxing match.

Like I said, I thought JMM was robbed. He landed the more accurate and harder blows. He neutralized Pac's offense.

What I said in my post that you quoted was what I believed to be the reason why JMM lost to Pac despite landing the clearer and more effective blows, despite controlling the pace of the fight. It's not right to judge based on popularity and who the champ is, but it is reality.

It is what happened to Pernell when he fought the iconic Chavez and the popular Dela Hoya. Pernell won the fight fair and square, even more decisively than what JMM did to Pac, but he lost, because his style isn't judge friendly.

Again, I'm not saying the judges were right, believe me, I argued all day with my friends and family that JMM is the better man that night. I'm just saying, if you are a challenger and you are fighting a household name boxer, you have to be more agressive. Counter punching aint enough. It's not right, but it's the reality of these kinds of fights.

 

[antonydelfini]

So because Pac is more well known then whom ever he's fighting, he automatically wins? I don't understand this.

Are you saying because Pac is well known the judges will always give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to close fights?


Why should JMM be more agressive, everything he was doing on Saturday was working, he was out boxing Pac all night. Why should JMM fight Pac's fight? You always want your opponent to fight your fight and not the other way around. Let me explain this a bit more...

The strategy in boxing is not to get hit, and to hit/hurt your opponent, right?
JMM was using Pacs aggressiveness to his advantage, this worked all night for JMM Pac kept missing, hitting shoulders, gracing shots off of JMM. Why should JMM change what is working for him and not try to make it a slug-fest like Margarito, Cotto, Hatton did and we all know what happened to them. Out boxing Pac is the only way to beat him. Why is it that when Pac faces actual boxers with an boxing IQ like Mosely, and JMM he has lots of problems with them. Pac has incredible speed and power, so really the only way to neutralize that is to use Pacs aggressiveness against him and out box him.

Oh and the correct boxing term is not backpedalling, it's boxing off your back foot. Many greats have used this method to win.. Ali, Sugar Ray, etc..


Again, I don't understand this type of thinking?


Read above.


The very reason many boxers, sport writers, fans believe JMM won.


This makes no sense what so ever! So if the Mavericks make it to the NBA finals again, the Mavericks should automaticly start the game with a 20 point lead because they are not the challengers?


JMM doesn't need to use a more agressive approach if what he is doing is working for him, out boxing Pac.


No, Arum and Pac are made for each other, together they will never lose a close decision. Ever.

Have Pac face brawlers, boxers with less ring skills and he will still be the great icon you say he is.


Do yourself a favor and watch it again, this time don't be a bias Pac fan, or a even a JMM fan. Just watch what JMM was doing all night to Pac. The sport of boxing is called the sweet science and not the sweet brawl.

Oh and read this so you will have a better understanding of how to score a boxing match and boxing strategies to win...
http://coxscorner.tripod.com/scoring.htm

Sigh. You don't need to school me on how to score a boxing match. And I know boxing from brawling. My favorite boxers are Pep, Whitaker, Benitez (when focused), and Benny Leonard. Yeah, none of those guys are brawlers.

And like I said, I thought JMM was robbed. He landed the more accurate and harder blows. He neutralized Pac's offense.

What I said in my post that you quoted was what I believed to be the reason why JMM lost to Pac despite landing the clearer and more effective blows, despite controlling the pace of the fight. It's not right to judge based on popularity and who the champ is, but it is the reality.

It is what happened to Pernell when he fought the iconic Chavez and the popular Dela Hoya. Pernell won the fight fair and square, even more decisively than what JMM did to Pac, but he lost, because his style isn't judge friendly.

Again, I'm not saying the judges were right, believe me, I argued all day with my friends and family that JMM is the better man that night. I'm just saying, if you are a challenger and you are fighting a household name boxer, you have to be more agressive. Counter punching aint enough. It's not right, but it's the reality of these kinds of fights.

 

[Doc Samson]

With all due respect fceeviper, there's no reason you should have to go that in depth with it. To ANYBODY who clearly can't see that JMM won that fight, there's really nothing to discuss.

I felt like maybe he should've been a bit busier like De la Hoya against Trinidad, but after my 2nd viewing, I completely retract that statement, he outclassed him just as he did the first two times, actually moreso this bout because he didn't have any holes he needed to dig himself out of from being knocked down.