The Official Civil War Thread

[Havok83]

At this point I dont think anyone keeps up with the new warriors

Its not good anymore? I think the last issue I read was 6 or 7. Whenever Paco Medina stopped drawing

 

[hammerhedd11]

I read the TPB yesterday. It's still pretty good. The pacing's a little off to me but they did have a lot of story to tell. It's a very interesting story as neither side is truly wrong or bad so it makes for an interesting read. One problem is the fact that if you are someone like me who isn't a hardcore fan who reads all the titles, it's kinda hard to keep up with what's happening. One issue Daredevil is fighting with the Secret Avengers and the next he's in captivity which the struggle I assumed happened in Daredevil's monthly title. A minor complaint but overall a fun story and an event that lives up to the promise that it will actually impact the Marvel Universe.
8.5/10

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I liked CW and thought it was a good story but I hated the fall out. The only book outside of the X-line that Ive really liked was New Warriors and even that I dont keep up with much.

I'm just the opposite. I think Civil War was badly executed, but the aftermath has made the Marvel universe much more interesting.

 

[Whirlysplat]

I'm just the opposite. I think Civil War was badly executed, but the aftermath has made the Marvel universe much more interesting.

Agreed, I for one look forward to Marvels next reboot. I suspect Johns and see Luke Cage getting the silk shirt, chain belt and short afro back. Well I can hope!

 

[Egotastic]

I'm just the opposite. I think Civil War was badly executed, but the aftermath has made the Marvel universe much more interesting.

Didn't you not read CW?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

No, I didn't. I know the broad strokes of everything that happened from reviews and spoilers, though. My main issue was with how quickly things broke down to open fighting between people who've been friends and comrades-in-arms for years.

 

[Egotastic]

But...you didn't read it. Knowing things about it from reading other people's own opinions isn't the same thing as reading it for yourself. People tend to put their own spin into pretty much everything, and it's likely to be different than the opinions you'd form on your own by actually experiencing something firsthand. I believe you agreed with that statement in another thread.

 

[kguillou]

Corpulent's got a point tho, I liked CW a lot but Cap was acting way too crazy. Cap's supposed to be one of the best strategist's around, yet what exactly was his strategy during CW? Even if he beat Tony, what was he going to do next? Storm the White House? Tony gave him a chance to work things out and Cap just went crazy. It was a no win situation from the start, thats why I'm one of the few who understood why he gave up at the end. There was no other option realy.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, it's not like I'm arguing with anyone who did read it. I feel I know enough about it to confirm my initial expectation that it would suck, and I'm content with that.

 

[Egotastic]

I just think it's funny that someone can say something was badly executed when they didn't read it. And then in another thread, agree that people who comment on things that they haven't experienced themselves are idiots.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I know, I'm a funny guy.

 

[roach]

No, I didn't. I know the broad strokes of everything that happened from reviews and spoilers, though. My main issue was with how quickly things broke down to open fighting between people who've been friends and comrades-in-arms for years.

I agree. The greatest minds in the Marvel universe and their only recourse was to fight each other. There was also a lot of stupidity and inconsistancy. People were tired of the heroes messing up neighborhoods yet the capekillers sht up several in attempts to catch heroes. If Tony Stark put that much effort into fighting crime that he put into catching and detaining his fellow heroes there would be a lot less crime. Cap's big plan was to keep doing what they were doing but sneak away. Then the government turns to villains to catch the heroes.
I would have prefered if it was a heroes vs the government story like it was originally planned...with Cap forming a plan and a major villain at the center of the conspiracy against the heroes

 

[moraldeficiency]

While I get what a lot of you are saying name me one event that didn't have stupidity and inconsistancy abounding throughout. I liked Civil War a lot, and I think it was mainly due to the awful taste left in my mouth after HoM and Onslaught before that. Plus the aftermath gives so much room to play, I can forgive some bad characterizations and loopsided plot. Compared to WWH which came out on it's heels, Civil War reads like Shakespeare.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Acts of Vengeance was a pretty well written event, from what I remember.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Acts of Vengeance was a pretty well written event, from what I remember.

Pretty well, I agree, though that's a long amount of time between reasonably well written events. And the FF issues of that were pretty dumb. You don't send third tier spider-man villians agaisnt the FF, and definately not one at a time, that collective team of brainiacs couldn't see that?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, nobody's perfect. Maybe they figured that if Dr. Doom, who's smarter than everyone else combined, couldn't take the FF down, the solution lay in the opposite direction.

Anyway, the whole point is moot. Just because events have traditionally been written badly, doesn't mean we shouldn't call the events out on being bad in the hopes that future events will be better.

I do agree that Civil War set up a great new status quo in its aftermath. I can appreciate events on those merits. Onslaught wasn't great, but it opened the Marvel universe up enough to give us stuff like the Thunderbolts and the Ostrander/Ferry Heroes for Hire, both of which I loved.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Well, nobody's perfect. Maybe they figured that if Dr. Doom, who's smarter than everyone else combined, couldn't take the FF down, the solution lay in the opposite direction.

Anyway, the whole point is moot. Just because events have traditionally been written badly, doesn't mean we shouldn't call the events out on being bad in the hopes that future events will be better.

I do agree that Civil War set up a great new status quo in its aftermath. I can appreciate events on those merits. Onslaught wasn't great, but it opened the Marvel universe up enough to give us stuff like the Thunderbolts and the Ostrander/Ferry Heroes for Hire, both of which I loved.

That's not really what I'm saying, I guess I'm saying that in comparison to the vast majority of events Civil War was better than most if not all in terms of being a character driven story that had actual ramifications and meant something to the overall state of the 616. It had some bad points but like you said "nobody's perfect". I'm not a millar fan, but the event had me excited and kept me hooked and while it had some points that just didn't fit (Cap and the Punisher never go together) they weren't so glaring that I was really distracted. Overall I was entertained, enjoyed the aftermath, and especially liked that the event was something different then events before it.

 

[iloveclones]

The things that I liked about the whole Cap/Punisher thing is that they tried to play up the whole "former soldier" angle and that it didn't last long. I think Frank has always viewed himself as a soldier, so it makes sense to me that he would take orders from Cap. It really didn't make much sense in the other direction, though, because I doubt Cap would ever view what he was doing as "soldiering."

It is kind of funny that all of these braniacs and futurists couldn't come up with anything better than, hey, let's bash some skulls together!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, that's the problem a lot of people had with CW. It's one thing to be uncompromising and go straight to violence against villains who are trying to kill people, but it seems odd that they wouldn't try to find a more appropriate solution than fisticuffs against their own allies over a simple disagreement. Why were the secret identities so important when the Avengers have equipment that can verify a person's identity without revealing it? Why was Cap so adamantly opposed to people submitting for training? The points of contention just didn't really add up to the huge, violent conflict that CW turned out to be; relatively simple compromises could've been made to appease all involved.

 

[iloveclones]

But what's funny is that WWH had exactly what you're talking about, a single straight forward motive for popcorn movie violence (revenge), and it is panned for that exact reason. You can't please all the people all the time... (I liked both, by the way.)

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Um... that's the opposite of what I'm talking about. I liked the complexity of Civil War, I just didn't like the oversimplification of the heroes' response to it.

 

[iloveclones]

I know you were. But when given a stright forward plot (revenge) and a straight forward response ( Oh crap!), people (not you) didn't like that either.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Fair enough. I didn't like WWH either, but that was more because it read like blatant Hulk fanboyism masquerading as a story.

Still, it sure would be nice to get a complex plot with a complex, well reasoned response for once. I guess that tends to be suited more for individual comics' arcs than big events, although SI does seem like it could pull it off to some extent so far. Whether Bendis can follow through is another matter.

 

[iloveclones]

Fair enough. I didn't like WWH either, but that was more because it read like blatant Hulk fanboyism masquerading as a story.

Still, it sure would be nice to get a complex plot with a complex, well reasoned response for once. I guess that tends to be suited more for individual comics' arcs than big events, although SI does seem like it could pull it off to some extent so far. Whether Bendis can follow through is another matter.

Too much work...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Maybe it's just an unavoidable symptom of the event format. I mean, with Messiah Complex, we had two writers in Brubaker and Carey who are known for exceptionally complex and intelligent writing, yet we still wound up ultimately ending with a massive retcon and total change in personality for Bishop.