The Official Contest of Marvels 3 Discussion Thread

[JewishHobbit]

Awsome... you're in.

 

[random_havoc]

I vote for Barton being Hawkeye rather than Ronin (I think that would be the popular vote).

I also vote against including any skrulls other than super-skrulls since their powers would be far too up for debate.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I think Spider-Woman is now in the same category of individuality as Super Skrull, Paibok, Hulkling, etc. She's her own character and her powers are the same as Spider-Woman... the same as the ones she's been using since New Avengers 1. She may have shown a few more in Secret Invasion (I honestly don't remember) but if she did then we can say she has those shone and nothing else. It's not that bad really. Basically....

Shape Changing
Shifting Organs
Flying
Stinger Blast strong enough to fry Wolverine's face off and knock out Echo
Phermones that attract others (men at least, maybe woman, I don't remember)

I miss any?

I'd really like to see her included, so we'll see what W has to say to break the tie.

 

[wiegeabo]

I don't know anything about the secret Skrull thing because I haven't read or paid attention to anything Marvel in probably a year.

So, going off very little knowledge about what's happening in the Marvel universe, I don't think much of the idea of just having Skrulls. But if she really is her own character...

yeah, I don't know.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Here is my feelings regarding JH's list. I don't want to rush this one, since it's pretty big. Let's close on this, probably Monday. I can't give as much time to it as it needs, as I'm taking care of kids, doing Christmas Shopping, and even have the last Seahawks game tomorrow.

Keep
Black Panther
Bloodwraith
Bulldozer
Captain America (Steve Rogers)
Captain America (Bucky)
Firebird
Grim Reaper
Hawkeye (Kate Bishop)
Hank Pym
Hawkeye
Hercules
Hulkling
Iron Fist
Iron Lad
Iron Man
Jack of Hearts
Jocasta
Kang
Klaw
Living Lightning
Lord Templar
Luke Cage
Mandarin
Ms. Marvel
Patriot
Piledriver
Proctor -
Protocide - (Potential...we already have two caps, a third doesn't thrill me.)
Pulsar
Purple Man
Quasar - (Female version??)
Quicksilver
Red Skull
Sersi
She-Hulk
Speed
Spider-Woman (Skrull)
Starfox
Stature
Taskmaster
The Hood
Thunderball
Tigra
Vision (Original)
War Machine
Wasp
Wiccan
Wonderman
Wrecker
X-51
Yelina Belova (Super Adaptoid)


Potential
Ant-Man (Scott Lang)
Captain Britain (Kelsey Leigh)
Echo
Jessica Jones
Pagan
Protocide - (Potential...we already have two caps, a third doesn't thrill me.)
The Ghost
The Presence
Scarlet Witch
Silver Claw
Whirlwind

Drop
Attuma
Falcon & Redwing
Modok

Approve, But Needs Moved
Crystal Cosmic/Misc./Inhuman
Diablo Fantastic Four
Mantis Cosmic
Quasar (Wendall Vaghn) Cosmic
Ultron Cosmic
3-D Man Initiative
Black Knight (Dane Whitman) MI:13

 

[Phaedrus45]

Some characters to consider:

Ares
Collective - too uber????
Count Nefaria - Too uber????
Daisy Johnson
Justice
Mantis
Morgan Le Fay
Sentry - to me, if we include WWH Hulk, Dr. Strange, Loki, and those powerhouses, I have no problems with Sentry...but, it would be Sentry we see lately. He's obviously beatable, as we've seen that lately.
Viper

There are groups that are somewhat associated with the Avengers; I'm not sure if we want to look at them, as they would include various characters, or if we save them for the Others List.

Great Lakes Avengers
Masters Of Evil
Lethal Legion

 

[JewishHobbit]

Here is my feelings regarding JH's list. I don't want to rush this one, since it's pretty big. Let's close on this, probably Monday. I can't give as much time to it as it needs, as I'm taking care of kids, doing Christmas Shopping, and even have the last Seahawks game tomorrow.

I root for the Bangels. I am no longer required to actually WATCH the games, just make an educated guess at how much they'll lose by. And I'm not attatched to Protocide being kept, and you make a good point with the two caps (3 if you count U.S. Agent). So I'll move my Keep vote for him to Potential. And I see you're rooting for the original Vision. I'm okay with that. So should we then just get rid of Vision 2.0? And I notice you didn't put any specification on Clint Barton. I actually like him as Ronan, as as we saw twice in Secret Invasion, he's still skilled with the bow. And I kept Scarlet Witch in the potential list because we don't really know what to think of her right now. She may be too uber, but then, she doesn't know who she is really, but the classic Wanda is fine, though I know little about her. And you seem to be entertaining me by keeping Spider-Woman as a skrull, and since W isn't sure (since he hasn't read SI), I guess that's a 2 1/2 out of 3 . And as for Quasar I was refering to Wendall Vaughn needing moved to the Cosmic section. The Female version would be the same. So there's no reason for any Quasar to be on this list. Both are dominately cosmic territory now and has been for the past two or three years.

Anyhow, based on our lists (and they're very similar, this is what it looks like at the moment).


Keep
Black Panther
Bloodwraith
Bulldozer
Captain America (Steve Rogers)
Captain America (Bucky)
Firebird
Grim Reaper
Hawkeye (Kate Bishop)
Hank Pym
Hawkeye
Hercules
Hulkling
Iron Fist
Iron Lad
Iron Man
Jack of Hearts
Jocasta
Kang
Klaw
Living Lightning
Lord Templar
Luke Cage
Mandarin
Ms. Marvel
Patriot
Piledriver
Proctor
Pulsar
Purple Man
Quicksilver
Red Skull
Sersi
She-Hulk
Speed
Spider-Woman (Veranke)
Starfox
Stature
Taskmaster
The Hood
Thunderball
Tigra
Vision (Original)
War Machine
Wasp
Wiccan
Wonderman
Wrecker
X-51
Yelina Belova (Super Adaptoid)


Potential
Ant-Man (Scott Lang)
Captain Britain (Kelsey Leigh)
Echo
Jessica Jones
Pagan
Protocide
The Ghost
The Presence
Silver Claw
Scarlet Witch
Whirlwind

Drop
Attuma
Falcon & Redwing
Modok
Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew)

Approve, But Needs Moved
Crystal Cosmic/Misc./Inhuman
Diablo Fantastic Four
Mantis Cosmic
Quasar (Wendall Vaghn) Cosmic
Ultron Cosmic
3-D Man Initiative
Black Knight (Dane Whitman) MI:13

 

[JewishHobbit]

Now, some thoughts on that above list.

1) Should the Spider-Woman Skrull be listed as "Spider-Woman (Skrull)", "Spider-Woman (Veranke)", or just "Veranke" since that really is her name? I vote for either of the bolded above.

2) Should Clint Barton be Hawkeye or Ronin? Keep in mind, if he's Hawkeye he doesn't know anything about what's gone on since Disassembled. I vote for Ronin.

3) Should Scarlet Witch be included? And if so, at what level? I'm thinking either classic Wanda just prior to Disassembled or not at all.

4) I'm actually redebating putting The Ghost on the keep list instead of on the potential list. Any chance either of you (Phaed and W) could look more into him and give me your opinions? I'm torn.

5) A character I just remembered... "Marvel Boy (Noh-Varr)" from Morrison's mini, "Civil War: Young Avengers & Runaways", "Secret Invasion", and soon "Dark Avengers". Keep him or get rid of him? I vote to Keep him.

6) Should we go ahead and include characters from "Avengers: The Initiative" on this list"?

 

[JewishHobbit]

Edit. I took care of it.

 

[JewishHobbit]

And if we add Avengers: The Initiative to the Avengers list (and I think we should) here are the characters. I'm omitting anyone who turned out to be a Skrull and those who are so lame there's no reason to even consider them. (Geldoff, Boulder, etc.)

3-D Man
Annex
Ant-Man (Eric O'Grady)
Armory
Baron Von Blitzschlag
Bengal
Constrictor
Cloud Girl
Crusader
Debrii
Diamond Back
Gauntlet
Geiger
Gorilla Girl
Hardball
Justice
K.I.A.
Komodo
Melee
Mutant Zero
Prodigy (Ritchie Gilmore)
Rage
Slapstick
Sunstreak
Taskmaster
The Scarlet Spiders
Trauma
Ultra Girl

 

[JewishHobbit]

Oops... missed Phaed's post of more characters to consider.

Keep
Ares
Count Nefaria - Strong, but I don't think too uber.
Marvel Boy (Noh-Varr) - I mentioned him earlier so I'll add him in here to keep it organized.
Quake - Daisy Johnson's codename now.
Nick Fury - Thought I'd add him in here too.
Maria Hill - Same
Phobos - Ares' son

Potential
Morgan Le Fay - I'm always cautious on magic users. She seems a bit too powerful to me though.

Drop
Collective - TOO UBER - The power of Billions of Mutants!
Sentry - I still think he's too powerful. Unless you teleport him away or get someone even MORE poweful than him, he's going to clean up until the final 4 or so. And he really has me cautious on WWH as well. They're on level ground.
Viper - Too simple. I don't think she'd do well.

I'll deal with Justice in the Initiative grouping above, and Mantis should be moved to the Cosmic title, being that she's a member of Guardians of the Galaxy now.

Also, since we're including Quake... I was thinking about the other Secret Warriors. I think they're all too new to really be considered, save Phobos... the son of Ares. He can create fear in others, which is cool, but I'm also wondering if he still has the samarai fighting skills from the Ares mini series from before Ares joined the Avengers. Bendis likes to ignore things like that, but if he an still fight his father to a near standstill AND cause great fear by looking at you... I think he'd be awsome for this tournament. If he doesn't have both then I'd say just put him on the potential list. EDIT: I've looked into it and it seems like he does still have his fighting skills, though Bendis isn't utilizing them. I say put him on the keep list.

There are groups that are somewhat associated with the Avengers; I'm not sure if we want to look at them, as they would include various characters, or if we save them for the Others List.

Great Lakes Avengers
Masters Of Evil
Lethal Legion

I don't really know much on the Masters of Evil or the Lethal Legion, but I think the Great Lakes Avengers should be included. I know most of them were used last season in the "Other" section, but they are an unofficial Avengers team and are members of the Initiative. My opinions...

Keep
Mr. Immortal
Doorman

Potential
Squirrel Girl

Drop
Everyone Else

 

[random_havoc]

I think I'll stop taking part in this voting thing for now myself (mostly cuz I'm not sure how this process is working exactly). So I'll just reiterate my vote to include the Sentry (he's my fav character, and if Thor is included then there's really no possible excuse not to include Sentry).

Other than that, just let me know when you're ready to get started and i'll be happy to take part.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I think I'll stop taking part in this voting thing for now myself (mostly cuz I'm not sure how this process is working exactly). So I'll just reiterate my vote to include the Sentry (he's my fav character, and if Thor is included then there's really no possible excuse not to include Sentry).

Other than that, just let me know when you're ready to get started and i'll be happy to take part.

Sounds good man. I'll let you know.

 

[JewishHobbit]

The Initiative list to be blended with the Avengers list. My opinion on it, and I also removed Taskmaster from the list, being that he's already listed in the above Avengers section.

Keep
3-D Man
Annex
Bengal
Constrictor
Cloud Girl
Crusader
Gauntlet
Hardball
Justice
K.I.A.
Komodo
Prodigy (Ritchie Gilmore)
Rage
Slapstick
Sunstreak
Trauma
Ultra Girl

Potential
Ant-Man (Eric O'Grady)
Gorilla Girl
Mutant Zero - I'm iffy because we don't know who she is yet. Otherwise I'd say yes.
Scarlet Spider (MVP) - They usually come in groups, but I think only 1 should represent them. Otherwise you have a group of Spider-Men fighting together each round.

Drop
Armory
Baron Von Blitzschlag
Debrii
Diamond Back
Geiger
Melee

 

[Darthphere]

2) Should Clint Barton be Hawkeye or Ronin? Keep in mind, if he's Hawkeye he doesn't know anything about what's gone on since Disassembled. I vote for Ronin.

The only real difference is the costume. I mean, he has technically used his bow as Ronin.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I think the biggest differance is that he doesn't carry the bow as Ronin... or does he? I don't think he does. If he does then we might as well keep him as Ronin, since he'll have the bow AND the sword.

 

[Darthphere]

I think the biggest differance is that he doesn't carry the bow as Ronin... or does he? I don't think he does. If he does then we might as well keep him as Ronin, since he'll have the bow AND the sword.

Certain instances where he has carried his bow. But it was a specific reason.

 

[JewishHobbit]

jhvkhghkvhm

 

[JewishHobbit]

Certain instances where he has carried his bow. But it was a specific reason.

To make things easy we could just go with Ronin and assume he has his bow.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Man... just thinking about it. If Phobos does still have the knowledge of his samarai skills...he could totally take out the Sentry without breaking a sweat. His fear stare will revert Sentry to a coward as always, and then just kick the crap out of his Bob persona with his samarai sword and butt kicking skills.

 

[JewishHobbit]

If there is one thing I've learned today it's that I can keep myself entertained all by my lonesome. I don't need the rest of you!

 

[wiegeabo]

I agree we don't need another Cap in the form of Protocide. Stick with original Vision. I don't know what's going on with Scarlet Witch. Other than that, the list looks good

Keep
Black Panther
Bloodwraith
Bulldozer
Captain America (Steve Rogers)
Captain America (Bucky)
Firebird
Grim Reaper
Hawkeye (Kate Bishop)
Hank Pym
Hawkeye
Hercules
Hulkling
Iron Fist
Iron Lad
Iron Man
Jack of Hearts
Jocasta
Kang
Klaw
Living Lightning
Lord Templar
Luke Cage
Mandarin
Ms. Marvel
Patriot
Piledriver
Proctor
Pulsar
Purple Man
Quicksilver
Red Skull
Sersi
She-Hulk
Speed
Spider-Woman (Veranke)
Starfox
Stature
Taskmaster
The Hood
Thunderball
Tigra
Vision (Original)
War Machine
Wasp
Wiccan
Wonderman
Wrecker
X-51
Yelina Belova (Super Adaptoid)


Potential
Ant-Man (Scott Lang)
Captain Britain (Kelsey Leigh)
Echo
Jessica Jones
Pagan
Protocide
The Ghost
The Presence
Silver Claw
Scarlet Witch
Whirlwind

I just have a question about Super-Adaptiod. What's her base powerset, if any? Because if she doesn't have any, won't she only be able to draw on the powers of the one she's fighting? Or does she have access to any ability she's ever copied?

 

[JewishHobbit]

I agree we don't need another Cap in the form of Protocide. Stick with original Vision. I don't know what's going on with Scarlet Witch. Other than that, the list looks good.

Awsome. I'll update that list momentarilly. Remember to comment on the mentions since that list as well (Phaed's suggestions, the ones I've added to it, and the Initiative team).

I just have a question about Super-Adaptiod. What's her base powerset, if any. Because if she doesn't have any, won't she only be able to draw on the powers of the one she's fighting? Or does she have access to any ability she's ever copied?

You know, I'm not sure. I was thinking she had all the New Avengers powers, but now that I'm looking into it that's not confirmed. So it looks like she's just another power copier. If that's the case then there's better than her out there and I'd rather just drop her. What do you think?

 

[wiegeabo]

If she's strictly a power copier, there's no point in having her. Each match will essentially be the same two characters, just one with more experience using their powers.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I agree, so I say drop her. I don't think Phaed will have an issue with it either. So other than her, the rest of the Avengers list is finished. We just need your and Phaed's opinion on the Initiative group I posted and on Phaed and my second list we thought should be added.