Comics The Official GAMBIT Discussion thread

[squeekness]

Gambit & Sunfire: The Lost Pages One-Shot.

I'd buy that.

 

[El Bastardo]

Well since nick was supposed to be the viewpoint character, his views *are* the correct ones. Thats the point of the story.

I'm not going to discuss "The Great Gatsby," because it's not the point (but on that point, Nick's views are not what I wrote above, thanks). The point also is not whether the character's views are correct or not. What Nick thinks is one thing. What the writer thinks is another. What readers think is something else. The point is this aforementioned separation of things.

Get off your high horse. Nicieza has taken shots at people through his comics before. People do it all the time. A recent example off the top of my head was someone holding a "Mark Millar licks goats" sign in a CW tie in.

Hahahaha. High horse. t: I don't like horses. :heart:
Being NOT facetious, I don't care if Nicieza has a history of doing stuff or if people do it in comics. Duh. Humor, "beefs," whatever. Unless Nicieza has come out and said "Dude, I think Gambit's accent is stupid and he's an annoying and worthless character," then saying he thinks that because he wrote it as part of Cable's first-person voice is, pretty much, not much more than a frivolous statement. By all means, be frivolous. Just don't make it seem like the statement actually matters.

No. Cable thought he was alone according to X-men and even told Proffessor he was wrong when the AI disagreed. Nicieza was re-writing that.

All Nicieza rewrote of that was Cable talking to Professor about rerouting stuff. "I'm reinstating electrical conduits in what was Fountainhead Plaza. I need you to verify the connections." Nicieza wasn't rewriting that Cable thought he was alone, because he suspected others around at the end of C&D 41, when he was with Wade. C&D is the source material for this part of Cable's antics on Providence now that he's separated from the X-Men team, so of course there's going to be a discrepancy between Carey's writing and Nicieza's writing here, being that it's not a full cross-over and Carey is not counting Deadpool or Nicieza's ongoing story.
What I wrote was that, as it was written in X-Men 200, it can fit into how Nicieza was weaving 41 and 42 of C&D without Nicieza having to rewrite the conversation with Professor into 42.
It's already a tad awkward, fitting it as it was written in X-Men 200, but it works. C&D 41 ends, Cable suspects they're not alone, then you take the dialogue in X-Men 200 where Professor tells him he's not alone, and whee. By no means perfect, but it all fits.

Not what I was talking about.

Mmhmm.

No. According to Nicieza's rewrites Cable played them. in x-men, gambit deliberately let cable run off and Sunfire revealed that they did so in order to find the room Cable hid in (using the "one minute" phrase to spook him into it).

Right, Nicieza didn't play up the phrase as Carey did. But it can't be said with any certainty that the "one minute" prhase was to spook him into anything - it could just as easily be a "clue" Gambit's dropping to someone he knows will do something with it. If it is important, it'll be important to what Carey's writing, and not integral to Nicieza's stories, which makes it fine that Nicieza omitted it (aside from slight continuity problem between the two issues). If it's not important, it makes no difference that Nicieza omitted it.
But Gambit deliberately let Cable run off in C&D 42, too. It's the same dialogue that Carey wrote: "Let de man run, Sunfire. Only hand we got to win is de last one."
Gambit and Sunfire attacked Cable to soften him up and get him to run away, so they could track him to where his records were kept. This would constitute them playing him. The only reason C&D 42 comes off differently from X-Men 200 is that it's more focal on Cable, possibly because Cable is a more important character in C&D than X-Men 200. Of course Carey wasn't going to write from Cable's point of view. Of course Nicieza is going to, and it's not a change, because Nicieza always writes from Cable's or Deadpool's point of view, depending on which character is in the spotlight (or, if together, which character it calls for).
The fact that C&D has an obvious Cable spin on it is not detriment to Gambit or Sunfire. The same events happened as they did in X-Men 200, Cable didn't get any super hits in C&D 42, and the same outcome happened. The only change is the introduction of Cable's mind as viewpoint, rather than the top-down omnisicence of us watching the events unfold in X-Men 200. ... And if Gambit had a solo book and an issue tied in to this, we'd see another viewpoint. And another viewpoint of Sunfire had a solo book that tied in.

The funny thing is that most readers of C&D, reading X-Men 200, could probably see the "suicide mode" mentality going on in his actions there, considering it's been a theme lately. C&D 42 isn't so unrealistic, even if the "forgot her name" angle wasn't a necessity. Still, fits with the character, and it doesn't flip anything on its side or head.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

The fact that C&D has an obvious Cable spin on it is not detriment to Gambit or Sunfire. The same events happened as they did in X-Men 200, Cable didn't get any super hits in C&D 42, and the same outcome happened. The only change is the introduction of Cable's mind as viewpoint, rather than the top-down omnisicence of us watching the events unfold in X-Men 200. ... And if Gambit had a solo book and an issue tied in to this, we'd see another viewpoint. And another viewpoint of Sunfire had a solo book that tied in.

..and there you have it.

 

[Canemacar]

How about we write an e-mail to Activision so they can work
on X-Men: Legends 3 already! An updated version
because reading these comics does the same thing to me.
I have a PS3 and am sooo pissed that Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
doesn't have Gambit or Rogue. So whadya' say Can-Can t:

They're already working on it. I think you can find trailers if you google it.

Gambit & Sunfire: The Lost Pages One-Shot.

I stand by my old idea for a mini about them entitled, "G+S" (stand for Gumbo and Sushi)

I'm not going to discuss "The Great Gatsby," because it's not the point (but on that point, Nick's views are not what I wrote above, thanks). The point also is not whether the character's views are correct or not. What Nick thinks is one thing. What the writer thinks is another. What readers think is something else. The point is this aforementioned separation of things.

Nick's view is presented as the correct view and the one that [SIZE=-1]Fitzgerald himself agreed with: thats why he wrote the book in the first place. It's a critique of American society in the 20's.[/SIZE]

Hahahaha. High horse. t: I don't like horses. :heart:
Being NOT facetious, I don't care if Nicieza has a history of doing stuff or if people do it in comics. Duh. Humor, "beefs," whatever. Unless Nicieza has come out and said "Dude, I think Gambit's accent is stupid and he's an annoying and worthless character," then saying he thinks that because he wrote it as part of Cable's first-person voice is, pretty much, not much more than a frivolous statement. By all means, be frivolous. Just don't make it seem like the statement actually matters.

Dude, where talking about comic books. EVERYTHING we discuss is the very definition of frivolous.

All Nicieza rewrote of that was Cable talking to Professor about rerouting stuff. "I'm reinstating electrical conduits in what was Fountainhead Plaza. I need you to verify the connections." Nicieza wasn't rewriting that Cable thought he was alone, because he suspected others around at the end of C&D 41, when he was with Wade. C&D is the source material for this part of Cable's antics on Providence now that he's separated from the X-Men team, so of course there's going to be a discrepancy between Carey's writing and Nicieza's writing here, being that it's not a full cross-over and Carey is not counting Deadpool or Nicieza's ongoing story. What I wrote was that, as it was written in X-Men 200, it can fit into how Nicieza was weaving 41 and 42 of C&D without Nicieza having to rewrite the conversation with Professor into 42. It's already a tad awkward, fitting it as it was written in X-Men 200, but it works. C&D 41 ends, Cable suspects they're not alone, then you take the dialogue in X-Men 200 where Professor tells him he's not alone, and whee. By no means perfect, but it all fits.

Not quite. Nicieza has a tendancy(and has had all throughout the book history which is one of the reasons I didn't buy it) to make Cable out to be better than everyone. To an insane and impossible degree. He continues this in 42. The dialogue in X-men shows us directly that Cable believed he was alone. He went so far as to tell his AI that it was incorrect when it said he wasn't. That is not "suspecting" someone was there with him. Foresight and common sense may have told him someone may come for his stuff, but he didn't think there was anyone on the island at the time of the story. C/DP contradicts that.

Right, Nicieza didn't play up the phrase as Carey did. But it can't be said with any certainty that the "one minute" prhase was to spook him into anything - it could just as easily be a "clue" Gambit's dropping to someone he knows will do something with it. If it is important, it'll be important to what Carey's writing, and not integral to Nicieza's stories, which makes it fine that Nicieza omitted it (aside from slight continuity problem between the two issues). If it's not important, it makes no difference that Nicieza omitted it.

I think it was clear he dropped the phrase intentionally to get Cable to head to his control room. Just look at the chain of events: Gambit drops the line, sees Cable's incredulous reaction, stops Sunfire from finishing him off, Cable runs to his control room and gathers the data on the phrase, then Sunfire bursts into the control room and thanks him for helping them find it. C/DP screws with the chain of events in Carey's story.

But Gambit deliberately let Cable run off in C&D 42, too. It's the same dialogue that Carey wrote: "Let de man run, Sunfire. Only hand we got to win is de last one." Gambit and Sunfire attacked Cable to soften him up and get him to run away, so they could track him to where his records were kept. This would constitute them playing him. The only reason C&D 42 comes off differently from X-Men 200 is that it's more focal on Cable, possibly because Cable is a more important character in C&D than X-Men 200. Of course Carey wasn't going to write from Cable's point of view. Of course Nicieza is going to, and it's not a change, because Nicieza always writes from Cable's or Deadpool's point of view, depending on which character is in the spotlight (or, if together, which character it calls for).

Thats to be expected. I'm not complaining about cable being the central focus of his own book(except where the "homefield" advantage is overplayed like Nicieza did here).

The fact that C&D has an obvious Cable spin on it is not detriment to Gambit or Sunfire. The same events happened as they did in X-Men 200, Cable didn't get any super hits in C&D 42, and the same outcome happened. The only change is the introduction of Cable's mind as viewpoint, rather than the top-down omnisicence of us watching the events unfold in X-Men 200. ... And if Gambit had a solo book and an issue tied in to this, we'd see another viewpoint. And another viewpoint of Sunfire had a solo book that tied in.

It's not the focus, but what Nicieza did with that focus. He tried to make Cable out to be better than the people the storyline dictates he loses to by tying in a lot of unnecessary "I'm not at my best" and "I have an ulterior motive" stuff.

The funny thing is that most readers of C&D, reading X-Men 200, could probably see the "suicide mode" mentality going on in his actions there, considering it's been a theme lately. C&D 42 isn't so unrealistic, even if the "forgot her name" angle wasn't a necessity. Still, fits with the character, and it doesn't flip anything on its side or head.

Theres definitely some spin put on the scene by Nicieza's pen.

 

[Rogue's Hand]

What? They're working on X-Men: Legends 3?????

 

[Canemacar]

Thats what I've heard. I did a quick search and saw links for a trailer and stuff leading to Raven's(the developers, not Rogue's Mom) website.

 

[El Bastardo]

Nick's view is presented as the correct view and the one that [SIZE=-1]Fitzgerald himself agreed with: thats why he wrote the book in the first place. It's a critique of American society in the 20's.

[/SIZE]
Yeah, yeah. Assuming that Nick's view is in fact that Gatsby, et al are awful, vile people, his view is "correct" from a matter of accepted morality in and of itself. Unfortuantely, the fact that Nick is himself unreliable means that his views can't be taken at face value. *shrugs*

Dude, where talking about comic books. EVERYTHING we discuss is the very definition of frivolous.

Not really. I don't consider serialized stories via the comics medium to be of no worth or importance or otherwise unworthy of serious attention. I wonder how many comics fans do?

Not quite. Nicieza has a tendancy(and has had all throughout the book history which is one of the reasons I didn't buy it) to make Cable out to be better than everyone. To an insane and impossible degree. He continues this in 42. The dialogue in X-men shows us directly that Cable believed he was alone. He went so far as to tell his AI that it was incorrect when it said he wasn't. That is not "suspecting" someone was there with him. Foresight and common sense may have told him someone may come for his stuff, but he didn't think there was anyone on the island at the time of the story. C/DP contradicts that.

There's no direct contradiction because they're not by the same writers. Like I said, there's no perfect cross-over going on. Dialogue was shared in places where it was easy to do so, and not when it harmed the story going on.
But by this reasoning, I suppose Carey in X-Men contradicts Deadpool's entire existence and placement on Providence, with his good buddy Cable.
I'm not repeating myself as to how the continuity works into 41, X-Men 200, and then 42.
And technically, if there is any contradicting going on, considering that 42 is the conclusion of an arc unto itself in C&D, it would be X-Men 200 contradicting C&D 41/42. I shouldn't have to explain why.

I think it was clear he dropped the phrase intentionally to get Cable to head to his control room. Just look at the chain of events: Gambit drops the line, sees Cable's incredulous reaction, stops Sunfire from finishing him off, Cable runs to his control room and gathers the data on the phrase, then Sunfire bursts into the control room and thanks him for helping them find it. C/DP screws with the chain of events in Carey's story.

It being "clear" depends on Carey actually meaning it to be for that purpose. Hey, speculation is all good and well, but it doesn't make your view or idea to be fact. You could be right, or it could be something else entirely, like my idea or not. Until something comes out for sure, they're hypotheses at best.

Thats to be expected. I'm not complaining about cable being the central focus of his own book(except where the "homefield" advantage is overplayed like Nicieza did here).

It's not the focus, but what Nicieza did with that focus. He tried to make Cable out to be better than the people the storyline dictates he loses to by tying in a lot of unnecessary "I'm not at my best" and "I have an ulterior motive" stuff.

Theres definitely some spin put on the scene by Nicieza's pen.

Cable is powerful, sure, has been powerful in C&D, and has had a huge messiah complex and fatherly complex going on in C&D. I'd argue how "great" Nicieza makes him. He's lost to Deadpool. He's lost to the X-Men, more or less, and became lobotomized. I think he fought and was getting beaten by Cap in 25. But it's no real surprise that you think Nicieza is the equivalent of the devil and writes Cable like Claremont writes Storm or Psylocke. t:
Cable didn't lose merely because he was distracted. He overestimated Gambit, which is pretty evident from some of the internal monologue. Not only that, but he wasn't expecting Sunfire. I'll give you that the "distraction" angle works into that to a degree, and I've never debated otherwise, but I don't agree that it's the only reason that he lost.
Cable was outclassed, absolutely. And when he came to terms with that, it's when he decided to make sure he won even when he lost. That's desperation, not the writer going "OLOL CABLE R TEH BAST!!!!!!!!!!"

If you have a problem with the "distraction" angle, hey, go ahead. Nobody can say you can't. But be honest about it and don't say it's the writer doing a gazillion other things because of this and that and this and that.

And yes, there's a spin. Because it's Cable, first-person, and not an omniscient, objective filter. It's his own overconfidence that spills through, not a writer going, "Cable's overconfidence sustains him, but I know better" in a narrative box.

 

[Canemacar]

[/size]Yeah, yeah. Assuming that Nick's view is in fact that Gatsby, et al are awful, vile people, his view is "correct" from a matter of accepted morality in and of itself. Unfortuantely, the fact that Nick is himself unreliable means that his views can't be taken at face value. *shrugs*

*Shrug* It was a critique of American society and the worth of the American Dream.

Not really. I don't consider serialized stories via the comics medium to be of no worth or importance or otherwise unworthy of serious attention. I wonder how many comics fans do?

Oh come on. Comics are just fiction. In any well-adjusted paradigm they're fairly frivolous things. Anyone who spends their time talking about comic books has no right to call someone else frivolous.

There's no direct contradiction because they're not by the same writers. Like I said, there's no perfect cross-over going on. Dialogue was shared in places where it was easy to do so, and not when it harmed the story going on.

Except that here theres a fairly direct contradiction and not simply a matter of dialogue. According to X-men, Cable wasn't aware they were there until they pounced, but in C/DP he knew they were there.

But by this reasoning, I suppose Carey in X-Men contradicts Deadpool's entire existence and placement on Providence, with his good buddy Cable. I'm not repeating myself as to how the continuity works into 41, X-Men 200, and then 42.

Yes, I suppose that would be a contradiction. Nicieza was supposed to keep Deadpool out of Providence so he wouldn't interfere with the X-men storyline going on. I suppose Nicieza didn't clear the field fully.

And technically, if there is any contradicting going on, considering that 42 is the conclusion of an arc unto itself in C&D, it would be X-Men 200 contradicting C&D 41/42. I shouldn't have to explain why.

X-men is a core book with a story starting here that will span the entire X-franchise. C/DP is a fringe book that is getting a sales boost from it's involvement in X-men. I think it's clear which story takes precedence.

It being "clear" depends on Carey actually meaning it to be for that purpose. Hey, speculation is all good and well, but it doesn't make your view or idea to be fact. You could be right, or it could be something else entirely, like my idea or not. Until something comes out for sure, they're hypotheses at best.

Umm. What part of "Let the man run, Sunfire. Only hand we got win is the last one." didn't you get? Especially considering it was followed by "Thanks you Cable. You've been a very hospitable host. It would have taken us a lot longer to find this place unaided."

Cable is powerful, sure, has been powerful in C&D, and has had a huge messiah complex and fatherly complex going on in C&D. I'd argue how "great" Nicieza makes him. He's lost to Deadpool. He's lost to the X-Men, more or less, and became lobotomized. I think he fought and was getting beaten by Cap in 25. But it's no real surprise that you think Nicieza is the equivalent of the devil and writes Cable like Claremont writes Storm or Psylocke. t:

1: All his loses were calculated ones by Nathan. Nicieza has gone out of his way to show this in every arc from the first one with the blue people, up to this most recent one.

2: I don't hate Nicieza. I love his work onthe old Gambit series. But the fact remains that he messed up here.

Cable didn't lose merely because he was distracted. He overestimated Gambit, which is pretty evident from some of the internal monologue. Not only that, but he wasn't expecting Sunfire. I'll give you that the "distraction" angle works into that to a degree, and I've never debated otherwise, but I don't agree that it's the only reason that he lost.

Thats what I think as well, but Nicieza went out of his way to point out how bad a shape Cable was in before the fight (my TK is failing, I'm mega distracted by memories of a soldier/death of my dream, my body is being consumed by the techno).

Cable was outclassed, absolutely. And when he came to terms with that, it's when he decided to make sure he won even when he lost. That's desperation, not the writer going "OLOL CABLE R TEH BAST!!!!!!!!!!"

I disagree. Nicieza wrote the issue as if Cable were pulling them into a trap while simultaneously fulfilling other goals, all while severely weakened/distracted/etc. He clearly wants to make Cable get the final upperhand and be the badass despite all the odds being stacked against him.

If you have a problem with the "distraction" angle, hey, go ahead. Nobody can say you can't. But be honest about it and don't say it's the writer doing a gazillion other things because of this and that and this and that.

I *am* being honest about it. You're the one BSing here.

And yes, there's a spin. Because it's Cable, first-person, and not an omniscient, objective filter. It's his own overconfidence that spills through, not a writer going, "Cable's overconfidence sustains him, but I know better" in a narrative box.

Except this wasn't a "pride goeth before a fall" situation. He knew they were there, lured them into a trap, got his friend out, etc.

 

[El Bastardo]

Oh come on. Comics are just fiction. In any well-adjusted paradigm they're fairly frivolous things. Anyone who spends their time talking about comic books has no right to call someone else frivolous.

So... by extension, fiction is frivolous, and nobody should spend their time talking about it? Well, there goes a bunch of professions into the "frivolous toilet," and with them a whole category of academia.
Please. For some people it's baseball, for other people it's fiction. And comic books are equally worthy of time and attention and discussion as novels are, fiction-wise. At least, that's my agenda.
And no, nothing I've said has been frivolous, considering it's all right there in the texts. t: Unlike, oh, I don't know, "Nicieza said Gamby had a STUPID ACCENT BECAUSE CABLE SAID IT."

Yes, I suppose that would be a contradiction. Nicieza was supposed to keep Deadpool out of Providence so he wouldn't interfere with the X-men storyline going on. I suppose Nicieza didn't clear the field fully.

Nicieza did keep Deadpool out of Providence during the X-Men storyline. Deadpool wasn't present for any of the Hecatomb fight. He arrived in the aftermath. It's not a problem unless you want to make it into one.
But since we're making problems of little things, Carey disregarded Irene, Black Box, and Cable's other named allies (the security dude and the hairy guy, but I can't remember their names) who were on Providence. Hmm, lalalalala bad contradiction whine rawr. Or maybe he might have mentioned their names in Cable's dialogue. I'm being overly facetious.

X-men is a core book with a story starting here that will span the entire X-franchise. C/DP is a fringe book that is getting a sales boost from it's involvement in X-men. I think it's clear which story takes precedence.

Considering there was no announced cross-over between the books, only that they were linking together when it wasn't something that had to be done, and Cable was really only being "borrowed" by Adjectiveless, I think it makes sense that Carey could have altered his script a tad to make it fit a little more cohesively into the story arc that was ongoing in C&D in order to make the "epic scale" felt a little more by readers of both books.
But he didn't, because there's really no need to, and all three books fit together nicely as is, even if Carey didn't bother with Deadpool.

Umm. What part of "Let the man run, Sunfire. Only hand we got win is the last one." didn't you get? Especially considering it was followed by "Thanks you Cable. You've been a very hospitable host. It would have taken us a lot longer to find this place unaided."

What's your point? Gambit said that in both books, even the one in which Nicieza committed the evil sin of not including the piece of dialogue that supposedly makes Gambit TEH MANIPUTIVE MANZ. Because, apparently, Gambit can't be manipulating Cable unless that crucial piece of dialogue is there?
The fact that Gambit said something questionable to Cable does not necessarily mean that he'd go to his secret Cable-cave and use his Cable-computer to look it up. In fact, that proceeding of events is more coincidental and ludicrous than Cable playing the players into trying to blow them up with himself. After all, since he had Professor with him, why not just say "Hey, time out! Professor!" "Yes, Nathan?" "Look up what accent-boy just said."
Oh, right. Carey wouldn't have written "accent-boy," despite it coming in Cable's dialogue, because if he did people would question how much he actually liked Gambit.
As Nicieza wrote it, he showed an alternate side of things. Had he done the book exactly as Carey had briefly shown the fight/events, there'd be no question in my mind as to whether or not Gambit said it just to ninja Cable's brain. The fact that they're different, and the omitted part is probably something that Nicieza won't touch in the future (read: the phrase), leaves me with questions. Just because you don't like how something's written doesn't mean you should discount it.

I'm not discounting your idea about the phrase. It's entirely possible. I'm only saying that it's also possible that it was Gambit giving Cable some kind of code, knowing that Cable would question it and try to find out its meaning, not to mention have the means of finding its meaning. If I'm wrong, hey, I'm wrong, but there's no way to be sure that you're right, either.

The second quote there, about Cable being hospitable (I don't have my X-Men 200 handy at the moment, was that Sunfire?), could be -just- a statement. A biting, harsh, sardonic statement, but a statement nonetheless and one unrelated to Gambit letting him go, and their manipulation. And if it was Sunfire, well, "biting, harsh, sardonic" all fit wonderfully well.

1: All his loses were calculated ones by Nathan. Nicieza has gone out of his way to show this in every arc from the first one with the blue people, up to this most recent one.

2: I don't hate Nicieza. I love his work onthe old Gambit series. But the fact remains that he messed up here.

Calculated losses are still losses. Losses don't have to be unexpected to make a person lose. C&D has always had a political background, and manipulation and calculated movements have always been a part of the book. Constantly. Except for maybe some of the random issues starring Wade, though usually that was Cable in the background anyway.
It's the point and basis of the book. The fact that they're calculated losses, that Cable is willingly giving up the things in his attempts to build something better, doesn't mean that Nicieza is making him the end-all be-all of awesome. Admittedly, some of the losses were more poignant in some times than other times, but the fact that they're calculated doesn't prove your point.
To any regular C&D readers who read this: if you think I'm wrong, say so. I won't even argue with you. I'll come off my "high horse," as Cancan wants me to.
2: I don't quite think it's a "fact" that Nicieza messed up. Rather, it's your opinion.

Thats what I think as well, but Nicieza went out of his way to point out how bad a shape Cable was in before the fight (my TK is failing, I'm mega distracted by memories of a soldier/death of my dream, my body is being consumed by the techno).

Nope. Cable lost his telepathy when the mummudrai went away, and his telekinesis has been failing, yep, but that's been carried over from Adjectiveless. And apparently his TK was good enough in both books to hurl Sunfire away (though Bachalo's scene was arguably the better of the two). And he wasn't bemoaning the fact - it's just that, a fact.
The distraction/haunting, as I've repeated several times, wasn't that huge a thing. He was still outclassed and still got his behind kicked.
There was no mention of the TO mesh until after he'd taken all the wounds from Gambit and Sunfire and was running away, and the TO mesh was patching his wounds.

The distraction/haunting of the person who gave her life for him wasn't there for the reasons you're making it to be there. It wasn't there for Cable to be TEH AUSUMZ. It really doesn't come off as that, either, unless you want it to come off like that, else I imagine other people would be in here raising a storm as they agree with you.
Rather, his haunting himself over the fact that he couldn't remember her name was a parallel to what he was planning, and the idea that if he couldn't remember hers, would anyone remember his? In this case, would Wade remember him? And it's more or less answered/wrapped up on the final page of the issue.

I disagree. Nicieza wrote the issue as if Cable were pulling them into a trap while simultaneously fulfilling other goals, all while severely weakened/distracted/etc. He clearly wants to make Cable get the final upperhand and be the badass despite all the odds being stacked against him.

He had no telepathy, but enough telekinesis power to slam Sunfire away (shown also in X-Men 200, and arguably better, as above). Nor was he severely distracted, but only distracted/haunted enough to bridge the gap via internal narration so we weren't reading a carbon copy of X-Men 200.
Cable gets no more the upper-hand in C&D than he does in X-Men 200, considering the outcomes are the same. Gambit and Sunfire still don't get what they want, Cable still blows his records up, badabing, badaboom.
They needed to be led to the knowledge chamber. They got what they wanted. He couldn't beat them, so he made for his last ditch effort. The only difference between what occurred is that he got Wade off the island in C&D, which is miniscule. He didn't want his friend to die. He didn't know who he'd be fighting 'til after he'd sent Wade on the wild goose chase - but it wasn't Wade's fight anyway. And Wade had did him a service by saving Irene in 41, so in a way, it was paying Wade back and not necessarily anything more.
I don't see Cable being "badass" in him getting whomped by Gambit and Sunfire and then assumedly killing himself.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Gambit = essays

 

[El Bastardo]

English 101?

Okay, okay, I'll stop.

 

[Canemacar]

**** it. I can't be bothered to respond to that mess. It's like arguing with a wall, only arguing with a wall wouldn't be a total waste since a talking wall would kick ass.

All this started because you simply couldn't take a bit of criticism about an author I used to like (until you at least).

 

[El Bastardo]

^ t:

This is America. We argue until one of us is right and the other eventually gives up and/or throws his hands up in a fit of rage and comes around. :heart:

 

[Canemacar]

Or like here in the South where one person just gets fed up and slugs the other.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Ih oh


Fight!

Fight!

 

[iamlegend]

^ t:

This is America. We argue until one of us is right and the other eventually gives up and/or throws his hands up in a fit of rage and comes around. :heart:

And then the other guy makes a complete ass of himself by posting something like... well... that.

 

[El Bastardo]

And then the other guy makes a complete ass of himself by posting something like... well... that.

Or, you know, it was a joke.
Like I assume Can's reply was, and like Spoons's reply to that was.

 

[AndThePickles]

What? They're working on X-Men: Legends 3?????

OOooo. Yay! :heart:

 

[Coldqueen]

...sheesh, what an argument. And here I thought CanCan only fights with me.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Eh.

Not to mention the definite 'WTF are they talking about' quality it has to all of us not reading C&D...

But, seriously, is it any surprise Cable looked better in C&D than Adjectiveless???

 

[Coldqueen]

ROFLMAO! Yesh, exactly. I've no idea WTF they're talking about.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Haven't read the whole thing, but Can seem to be saying Nicieza is pulling a semi-Claremont with his character while Bastardo is saying he Nicieza isn't.

Or something.

 

[Coldqueen]

...Claremont has become an adjective? This is rather...ironic.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Was arther going for a name referring to the act of bringing a character closer and closer to godhood...

 

[Coldqueen]

I'm just saying...

I like that.

"Stop being so Claremont."

Yesh. I like that muchly.