The Official PS4 Thread

[SpideyVille]

I am glad to see that there's an extra USB port in the back of the Pro. So, 2 in front and 1 in back.

now, if only we could use an external drive.

Sorry, I have a dirty mind lol

 

[X Knight]

Sorry, I have a dirty mind lol

naughty!!

 

[X Knight]

also, do we know if we can still replace the hdd with the Pro??

I hope we can.

 

[SpideyVille]

If anyone is interested, Beest Buy has this bundle listed. a new PS4 (slim version), Uncharted 4 and the new Platinum Headset for just $299. I don't know if they're fully going to honor this or if orders might get cancelled, but it's worth a shot. Those headsets alone cost half the price of the console, so it's a real steal, even though the headsets won't be out for a few months.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-pl...t-bundle/5389000.p?id=bb5389000&skuId=5389000

also, do we know if we can still replace the hdd with the Pro??

I hope we can.

Assuming it's built similar to the PS4/Slim, I'd say you should be able to. Sony would have to be extremely foolish to disallow that.

 

[X Knight]

If anyone is interested, Beest Buy has this bundle listed. a new PS4 (slim version), Uncharted 4 and the new Platinum Headset for just $299. I don't know if they're fully going to honor this or if orders might get cancelled, but it's worth a shot. Those headsets alone cost half the price of the console, so it's a real steal, even though the headsets won't be out for a few months.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-pl...t-bundle/5389000.p?id=bb5389000&skuId=5389000


Assuming it's built similar to the PS4/Slim, I'd say you should be able to. Sony would have to be extremely foolish to disallow that.

that's a good deal on the Slim!

wonder if the Pro will get a good deal like that, too. Hope so. Wonder if there will be any good Black Friday deals on the Pro, too.

And I do hope the hdd is replaceable in the Pro. I might swap out the 1TB drive for a 2TB if I can find one locally.

 

[Iceman]

sadly, you are right. Hope that won't be the case, though.

If that happens, that means Sony really has become arrogant, complacent, and tone deaf to their customer base.

And that would only push me further towards MS and back to the X1.

A bit early to say if that's happened here but it is very annoying how all the video game companies seem to lose the edge that takes them to the top after being there a few years. It's as if Don Mattrick is doing the rounds and temporarily joins whoever is leading to bring them back down to earth with some dumb decisions. There must be a big logic gap at the top amongst video game execs and they often aren't in touch with what gamers want. You want those people there who get it like Jack Tretton and Phil Spencer.

and I've seen many argue that 4K streaming is nowhere near the quality of an actual 4K disc.

so if the Pro is catering to the hard core, demanding gaming crowd, who own a 4K tv and want the best graphics and visual fidelity, you'd think that crowd would also want the best visual fidelity and quality when it comes to the movies they watch on the 4K tv.

Plus, if they already own a 4K tv, then most of those smart tvs already offer streaming services like Netflix and YouTube. So, the PS4 would be kind of redundant in that regard, offering no extra value beyond being a game machine.

If you have a fast and perfectly stable internet the stream will be inferior due to compression of the signal. This article might help explain some of the differences:

http://www.whathifi.com/features/4k-streaming-vs-4k-blu-ray-vs-blu-ray-which-best

The larger and more high end your display device and the weaker and less stable your internet is the more you'll notice the difference between a stream and a physical disc.

Yeah, PS4 Pro gamers are more likely to be the ones who care about the quality difference compared to the non-Pro and general population.

 

[X Knight]

A bit early to say if that's happened here but it is very annoying how all the video game companies seem to lose the edge that takes them to the top after being there a few years. It's as if Don Mattrick is doing the rounds and temporarily joins whoever is leading to bring them back down to earth with some dumb decisions. There must be a big logic gap at the top amongst video game execs and they often aren't in touch with what gamers want. You want those people there who get it like Jack Tretton and Phil Spencer.

If you have a fast and perfectly stable internet the stream will be inferior due to compression of the signal. This article might help explain some of the differences:

http://www.whathifi.com/features/4k-streaming-vs-4k-blu-ray-vs-blu-ray-which-best

The larger and more high end your display device and the weaker and less stable your internet is the more you'll notice the difference between a stream and a physical disc.

Yeah, PS4 Pro gamers are more likely to be the ones who care about the quality difference compared to the non-Pro and general population.

yeah. as that article says at the end - Go for both.

Why limit the customer to one option or another?

I was at BB the other day and looked at a standalone 4K player. It was $400. And guess what? It offered a ton of streaming services like Netflix, Youtube, etc. Same with most of the 4K tvs themselves.

So, for $400, if the Pro also included a 4K player, that would have offered a GREAT value to the customer and pretty much be a HUGE no brainer. You're in the market for a new 4K player to go along with your new 4K tv, why not pick up the Pro and get a powerful gaming machine all in one.

And I watched more of the Sony meeting, too. I just find it so ironic how they kept going on about the wonders of 4K and HDR and how they want you to experience the full graphical quality of games in 4K/HDR and how they want the Pro to be the best place to enjoy 4K content.

And yet, they don't include a 4K player which would allow you to enjoy 4K Blu-Rays, the highest quality of 4K films.

it just makes the whole thing so mindboggling...........and frustrating as a consumer.

 

[Iceman]

I was seeing my brother in law yesterday. He is more of an AV enthusiast and only a very casual gamer. But the PS2 was his DVD player and the PS3 was his blu-ray player. He was kind of shocked when he heard the Pro doesn't have a 4K Player as he'd been waiting for it and had been planning his 4K TV purchase. He's not into streaming and has never had any non-Sony console and is now annoyed at the prospect of having to learn the Xbox controls and dashbloard etc. He really doesn't want to get an Xbox but in England the S is much cheaper than a standalone player.

 

[X Knight]

I was seeing my brother in law yesterday. He is more of an AV enthusiast and only a very casual gamer. But the PS2 was his DVD player and the PS3 was his blu-ray player. He was kind of shocked when he heard the Pro doesn't have a 4K Player as he'd been waiting for it and had been planning his 4K TV purchase. He's not into streaming and has never had any non-Sony console and is now annoyed at the prospect of having to learn the Xbox controls and dashbloard etc. He really doesn't want to get an Xbox but in England the S is much cheaper than a standalone player.

and that's the type of "easy customer" that Sony misses with this strategy.

This Holiday season, Sony could have positioned this as the best value 4K player AND game console to get. That would have appealed not only to hardcore games but also to more casuals and media enthusiasts like your brother in law.

Instead, Sony is limiting itself to the hardcore gamer crowd with this console.

 

[Iceman]

I wonder what they're thinking about the feedback. They seemed to be on the ball with that at launch. The move seems so unpopular (just from what I've seen/read - don't know if that's accurate) that I would have thought they could have figured this out with sample testing gamers with questions about what they do/don't care about in the next console and what might be a dealbreaker or what feature(s) would make it a must buy.

 

[X Knight]

I wonder what they're thinking about the feedback. They seemed to be on the ball with that at launch. The move seems so unpopular (just from what I've seen/read - don't know if that's accurate) that I would have thought they could have figured this out with sample testing gamers with questions about what they do/don't care about in the next console and what might be a dealbreaker or what feature(s) would make it a must buy.

maybe they did do focus groups before launch and aside from the vocal minority, determined that most people prefer streaming and that streaming is the future.

though, you'd imagine someone would bring up the fact that not everyone has super fast internet speeds or unlimited data. surely, they wouldn't want to "shut out" those customers.

and maybe they did a cost benefit analysis and found that including a 4K player would have bumped the price over $400 and they didn't want to cross that.

though, I wouldn't mind paying an additional $50 or even $100 more for a SKU that did have a 4K player - we're talking about what's supposed to be a "premium" product here. And paying an additional $50 - $100 is a lot better than having to pay an additional $300 - $400 for a separate stand alone player.

I've also seen some speculate they left out the 4K player cuz they are releasing their own standalone player in 2017 and didn't want to take away sales from that unit.

though, if that's true, doesn't that contradict their assertion that streaming is the future? why bother releasing a standalone player for 4K Blu-Rays then if you don't believe in the future of disc media?

 

[SpideyVille]

I wonder what they're thinking about the feedback. They seemed to be on the ball with that at launch. The move seems so unpopular (just from what I've seen/read - don't know if that's accurate) that I would have thought they could have figured this out with sample testing gamers with questions about what they do/don't care about in the next console and what might be a dealbreaker or what feature(s) would make it a must buy.

Ehh, where Sony is now is where Microsoft was before the consoles launched. Microsoft lost a lot of good will for trying to "impose" certain things on gamers, whereas Sony, knowing this, was able to counter with proper messaging. The roles are pretty much reversed at this point, especially the fact that both sides are/were not being completely honest about the differences between the two.

The problem is, when you have no one ahead of you to chase, you have to start experimenting with new innovations, and that backfired on Microsoft, it's backfired with Nintendo, and in some ways, its backfiring on Sony. The only difference now is Sony still has a 20 million unit head start, so it's going to take a lot more misfires to really put them at a loss.

 

[Solidus]

Yeah this won't hit them too hard. Even though I am not convinced with the Pro and upset about the lack of a UHD the people that really want UHD now is really minimal. Sony will dominate for another year. This month with the Slim, and with the popularity and how quickly the PSVR has already pre-sold it will not really hurt them. But they better pay attention.

A part of me wonders if they would release a Pro Slim with UHD right before the Scorpio at at a lower price to take them on a year down the road.

 

[X Knight]

Yeah this won't hit them too hard. Even though I am not convinced with the Pro and upset about the lack of a UHD the people that really want UHD now is really minimal. Sony will dominate for another year. This month with the Slim, and with the popularity and how quickly the PSVR has already pre-sold it will not really hurt them. But they better pay attention.

A part of me wonders if they would release a Pro Slim with UHD right before the Scorpio at at a lower price to take them on a year down the road.

no. I think releasing another console version a mere year later would NOT be a good idea.

people are still bristling at this premature 3 year mid cycle refresh. If they release a slim Pro with a UHD next year, that would just **** off the customers who bought a Pro this year. It would also start feeling like they are indeed adopting the smartphone cycle of yearly upgrades.

I mean, I got my PS4 back in 2013. I am already not too happy that I'm being "nudged" into trading it in after only 3 years for a newer, more powerful model. So, if I traded my PS4 in for a Pro this year, and then next year they release a slim version that does include a 4K player, I would be extremely UNHAPPY about that.

And if there are any indications that they are planning that, I'll just hold off upgrading to the Pro this year and wait. But I'd rather trade in my PS4 while the value is still relatively high. Waiting another year would mean the value would drop further.

 

[Iceman]

maybe they did do focus groups before launch and aside from the vocal minority, determined that most people prefer streaming and that streaming is the future.

If so they'd probably be right. And I think this was a widely held view at the time they were likely planning the Pro.

though, you'd imagine someone would bring up the fact that not everyone has super fast internet speeds or unlimited data. surely, they wouldn't want to "shut out" those customers.

and maybe they did a cost benefit analysis and found that including a 4K player would have bumped the price over $400 and they didn't want to cross that.

though, I wouldn't mind paying an additional $50 or even $100 more for a SKU that did have a 4K player - we're talking about what's supposed to be a "premium" product here.

I've also seen some speculate they left out the 4K player cuz they are releasing their own standalone player in 2017 and didn't want to take away sales from that unit.

though, if that's true, doesn't that contradict their assertion that streaming is the future? why bother releasing a standalone player for 4K Blu-Rays then?

We've seen that speculation on not cannibalising their own standalone 4k players here if you remember, after it was suggested in an article. And it was mentioned that that might have made sense if there was no X1S already acting as a cheap 4K player.

Streaming being the future doesn't mean people don't want physical too (for the near future at least), especially when they don't have to separately shell out for the hardware. I'm not normally a typical consumer when it comes to AV and viewing habits but I think I might be the norm here among gamers with 4K players in that I will buy my favourite rewatchable films/shows on 4K discs and everything else 4K will be streamed or on live cable TV (including the downloadable box sets).

 

[X Knight]

If so they'd probably be right. And I think this was a widely held view at the time they were likely planning the Pro.

We've seen that speculation on not cannibalising their own standalone 4k players here if you remember, after it was suggested in an article. And it was mentioned that that might have made sense if there was no X1S already acting as a cheap 4K player.

Streaming being the future doesn't mean people don't want physical too (for the near future at least), especially when they don't have to separately shell out for the hardware. I'm not normally a typical consumer when it comes to AV and viewing habits but I think I might be the norm here among gamers with 4K players in that I will buy my favourite rewatchable films/shows on 4K discs and everything else 4K will be streamed or on live cable TV (including the downloadable box sets).

yeah. I don't know why it has to be an either or situation. why not offer both?

If you want to watch a 4K movie on disc, you should have that option.

If you want to stream that 4K movie, you should have that option.

And what if the 4K streaming services don't offer the movie you want? What if you want to rewatch a movie down the road only to find it's been removed from the streaming sites?

If you owned the film on disc, and if the Pro played 4K discs, then you wouldn't have that problem.

 

[Solidus]

no. I think releasing another console version a mere year later would NOT be a good idea.

people are still bristling at this premature 3 year mid cycle refresh. If they release a slim Pro with a UHD next year, that would just **** off the customers who bought a Pro this year. It would also start feeling like they are indeed adopting the smartphone cycle of yearly upgrades.

I mean, I got my PS4 back in 2013. I am already not too happy that I'm being "nudged" into trading it in after only 3 years for a newer, more powerful model. So, if I traded my PS4 in for a Pro this year, and then next year they release a slim version that does include a 4K player, I would be extremely UNHAPPY about that.

And if there are any indications that they are planning that, I'll just hold off upgrading to the Pro this year and wait. But I'd rather trade in my PS4 while the value is still relatively high. Waiting another year would mean the value would drop further.

I don't think many like the idea of this. But I don't know how hard they will push the thing. I mean if they just start adding in the UHD later on it won't be a big deal, MS did it with the slim. And then a year later they are releasing something else. It's clear they are already going this route, both of them. Not that I care for it in the slightest.

 

[Iceman]

Ehh, where Sony is now is where Microsoft was before the consoles launched. Microsoft lost a lot of good will for trying to "impose" certain things on gamers, whereas Sony, knowing this, was able to counter with proper messaging. The roles are pretty much reversed at this point, especially the fact that both sides are/were not being completely honest about the differences between the two.

The problem is, when you have no one ahead of you to chase, you have to start experimenting with new innovations, and that backfired on Microsoft, it's backfired with Nintendo, and in some ways, its backfiring on Sony. The only difference now is Sony still has a 20 million unit head start, so it's going to take a lot more misfires to really put them at a loss.

I can't see Sony not winning this generation from this point whatever happens. I think the situation we have here is very similar to the launch situation but a bit smaller in scale as launch is just a bigger time involving the whole gaming population while an upgraded premium product will only ever be of interest to a subset (even if a very large subset) of that population. And also lesser in scale because Microsoft mucked up on about 5 big issues at once rather than 2. But yes it's the same disease of unnecessarily causing problems for themselves that seems to afflict all 3 of the big guns after having a lead for an extended period.

 

[Iceman]

yeah. I don't know why it has to be an either or situation. why not offer both?

If you want to watch a 4K movie on disc, you should have that option.

If you want to stream that 4K movie, you should have that option.

And what if the 4K streaming services don't offer the movie you want? What if you want to rewatch a movie down the road only to find it's been removed from the streaming sites?

If you owned the film on disc, and if the Pro played 4K discs, then you wouldn't have that problem.

I'm a late mover to film/TV show streaming and I only recently found out that titles don't necessarily stay on the sites forever (maybe common sense to most but it was all new to me). With that considered there's no way I'd not buy my favourites on physical disc. And as somone who cares about the absolute highest quality on my favourite films but not nearly as bothered on every other film I watch, having both available is the obvious way to go. With a games console it is the physical player that is actually more important as the streaming can be done perfectly well (to me much more conveniently on a smart TV as you only have to power one device) elsewhere.

 

[X Knight]

I don't think many like the idea of this. But I don't know how hard they will push the thing. I mean if they just start adding in the UHD later on it won't be a big deal, MS did it with the slim. And then a year later they are releasing something else. It's clear they are already going this route, both of them. Not that I care for it in the slightest.

well, at least MS announced the Scorpio at the same time as the S to give consumers a heads up. To be equivalent, Sony would have to now announce the Pro Slim with UHD for next year release to let us know what's coming.

Also, MS didn't release the Slim a year after the original X1 - it was 2.5/3 years later.

I can't see Sony not winning this generation from this point whatever happens. I think the situation we have here is very similar to the launch situation but a bit smaller in scale as launch is just a bigger time involving the whole gaming population while an upgraded premium product will only ever be of interest to a subset (even if a very large subset) of that population. And also lesser in scale because Microsoft mucked up on about 5 big issues at once rather than 2. But yes it's the same disease of unnecessarily causing problems for themselves that seems to afflict all 3 of the big guns after having a lead for an extended period.

guess it's just human nature......lol.

 

[X Knight]

I'm a late mover to film/TV show streaming and I only recently found out that titles don't necessarily stay on the sites forever (maybe common sense to most but it was all new to me). With that considered there's no way I'd not buy my favourites on physical disc. And as somone who cares about the absolute highest quality on my favourite films but not nearly as bothered on every other film I watch, having both available is the obvious way to go. With a games console it is the physical player that is actually more important as the streaming can be done perfectly well (to me much more conveniently on a smart TV as you only have to power one device) elsewhere.

exactly.

and with these streaming sites like Netflix, I'm assuming you have to pay some kind of subscription fee. Can you just go in there and buy the movie you want to stream? And even if you could, do you get to download and keep that movie or have unlimited access to it?

I don't watch much movies - so paying any kind of subscription fee is a no go for me. And when I pay for a movie, I want to own it and/or have unlimited access to it - not just a one time thing. especially for a favorite film that I want to keep. Like the Disney films, I want to buy and own and keep those discs not only for myself but also for kids I may have in the future.

That's why I prefer physical discs.

Also, with physical discs, I can always sell them, trade them in, give them to a family member or friend, etc.

can't do any of that with digital/streaming movies.

I feel the same about physical games vs digital games. I will always prefer physical games if given the choice. And if a console ever went truly digital, that would truly be a sad day for me - as I'd have to reevaluate my gaming lifestyle.

The only exception I make in the physical vs digital battle is for music. I still like to buy CDs if I want the whole album/soundtrack. But, if I'm only interested in a few songs, or I want songs from CDs/albums that are hard to find locally ( say, a Final Fantasy music CD ), then I have no problem going to ITunes and downloading the digital songs.

But even with that, though, my dad who is much more of an audiophile than I am says there is a quality difference between a CD and a digital file.

Plus, digital music files are much smaller than say game or movie files.

 

[Iceman]

well, at least MS announced the Scorpio at the same time as the S to give consumers a heads up. To be equivalent, Sony would have to now announce the Pro Slim with UHD for next year release to let us know what's coming.

Also, MS didn't release the Slim a year after the original X1 - it was 2.5/3 years later.

This is a good point as Pro buyers are definitely going to be pissed if another version with a 4K player comes out.

guess it's just human nature......lol.

It's dumbass nature. Sony had Jack Tretton at the right time and they took the sensible approach (the one that even the average gamer would have recommended) and dominated from day 1 of this gen. He left, their common sense eventually started ebbing away. Microsoft had the black hole where all common sense in the universe disappears into (Don Mattrick's *******) and managed to throw a generation of good work down the toilet. He left and Phil Spencer joined (finally another sensible guy with a clue about what gamers want) and MS have been slowly righting the ship since. But if he left tomorrow who knows what dumbassery we'd see with the $2,000 next gen X1 sequel!

 

[Iceman]

exactly.

and with these streaming sites like Netflix, I'm assuming you have to pay some kind of subscription fee. Can you just go in there and buy the movie you want to stream? And even if you could, do you get to download and keep that movie or have unlimited access to it?

I don't watch much movies - so paying any kind of subscription fee is a no go for me. And when I pay for a movie, I want to own it and/or have unlimited access to it - not just a one time thing. especially for a favorite film that I want to keep. Like the Disney films, I want to buy and own and keep those discs not only for myself but also for kids I may have in the future.

That's why I prefer physical discs.

Also, with physical discs, I can always sell them, trade them in, give them to a family member or friend, etc.

can't do any of that with digital/streaming movies.

I feel the same about physical games vs digital games. I will always prefer physical games if given the choice. And if a console ever went truly digital, that would truly be a sad day for me - as I'd have to reevaluate my gaming lifestyle.

The only exception I make in the physical vs digital battle is for music. I still like to buy CDs if I want the whole album/soundtrack. But, if I'm only interested in a few songs, or I want songs from CDs/albums that are hard to find locally ( say, a Final Fantasy music CD ), then I have no problem going to ITunes and downloading the digital songs.

But even with that, though, my dad who is much more of an audiophile than I am says there is a quality difference between a CD and a digital file.

Plus, digital music files are much smaller than say game or movie files.

The good thing about a streaming site (as long as you only pay for one at a time) is that you get access to ****loads of material for usually a very low monthly fee. There's not permanent ownership but can you imagine a streaming site with unlimited downloads of thousands of films. You could just download everything you wanted in the first month and then unsubscribe. t:

There is a difference in audio physical vs digital (particularly on a high end sound system) in the same way (although remember, streaming is worse even than digital which doesn't need an internet connection after it's downloaded).

 

[Solidus]

well, at least MS announced the Scorpio at the same time as the S to give consumers a heads up. To be equivalent, Sony would have to now announce the Pro Slim with UHD for next year release to let us know what's coming.

Also, MS didn't release the Slim a year after the original X1 - it was 2.5/3 years later.

Does not really matter, it depends on how much the Pro sells to begin with. It's only going after a small subset. Maybe when they lower the price and using a different model as an excuse it may catch on more. Clearly neither company cares on how many versions of the consoles they release in a generation anymore. Scorpio/Pro have already shown this.

 

[X Knight]

Does not really matter, it depends on how much the Pro sells to begin with. It's only going after a small subset. Maybe when they lower the price and using a different model as an excuse it may catch on more. Clearly neither company cares on how many versions of the consoles they release in a generation anymore. Scorpio/Pro have already shown this.

even if only a small subset buys the Pro, I don't think that subset would be too happy if they bought a Pro this year only for Sony to turn around and release a version with a 4K player next year.

The good thing about a streaming site (as long as you only pay for one at a time) is that you get access to ****loads of material for usually a very low monthly fee. There's not permanent ownership but can you imagine a streaming site with unlimited downloads of thousands of films. You could just download everything you wanted in the first month and then unsubscribe. t:

There is a difference in audio physical vs digital (particularly on a high end sound system) in the same way (although remember, streaming is worse even than digital which doesn't need an internet connection after it's downloaded).

that's why there are pros and cons for both options. and why it's best to provide both options to the consumer.

This is a good point as Pro buyers are definitely going to be pissed if another version with a 4K player comes out.


It's dumbass nature. Sony had Jack Tretton at the right time and they took the sensible approach (the one that even the average gamer would have recommended) and dominated from day 1 of this gen. He left, their common sense eventually started ebbing away. Microsoft had the black hole where all common sense in the universe disappears into (Don Mattrick's *******) and managed to throw a generation of good work down the toilet. He left and Phil Spencer joined (finally another sensible guy with a clue about what gamers want) and MS have been slowly righting the ship since. But if he left tomorrow who knows what dumbassery we'd see with the $2,000 next gen X1 sequel!

well, let's hope Spencer stays the head of Xbox for a long while, and let's hope Sony can get their own Spencer equivalent.