The Dark Knight Rises The Official "What Do YOU Want in the Sequel?" Thread

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I think one thing has already become painfully obvious. Nolan and Goyer can't handle any kind of chemistry between male and female characters. There's zero excitement in that department. No sexual tension, no sparkling of any kind. The relationship between Rachel and Bruce in the first movie was "meh" at best. The love triangle between Harvey, Bruce and Rachel was even worse. I mean Eckhart and Gyllenhaal had nothing going on and I also wasn't feeling Bruce's emotions towards Rachel. The kiss they shared...nothing, I tell you! Absolutely nothing.

I think this aspect may prove to be problematic if they decide to introduce Catwoman. We all know how amazing and electrifying the relationship between Batman/Bruce and Catwoman/Selina is suppose to be.
On the other hand, if they actually get a sparks-flying character relationship, it'll make the impact that much stronger.

Come to think of it, though? Maybe its Bale. I can't remember any movie with Bale where his chemistry with a woman was all that memorable.

maybe he's gay :o
 
I disagree watch his relationship with the girl in equilibrium, he needs some one who is a dynamite stunner in the 3rd film! Some one who is just sexy on screen its the only way to do catwoman, SEXY and SULTRY! He can act that way he just needs some one to get that going with.
 
Emily Watson isn't exactly "Sexy and Sultry." And that performance was based around an emotionless man discovering feelings. It wasn't a "chemistry" knockout the way bats-cats needs to be.
 
I want to see Batman struggling even more with his choice of refusing to kill. Somebody needs to put him in a sadistic choice situation where the only options are to save one person, or save a group. Part of the greatness of Bats is his soul. He feels like he should have saved people even when there is no way he ever could've. At least this applies for innocents.
I'm really sick of people saying that he killed Ra's and Harvey. As far as Ra's is concerned, he just let Ra's decide his own fate. Ra's very well could have survived had he gotten up and jumped from the train. He's a ninja. And Harvey left Batman lying on the floor with a bullet in the stomach of his new, more vulnerable suit. Bats probably had the wind knocked out of him and got up just in time to see Harvey flipping the coin. As soon as the coin lands, Harvey wouldn't have hesitated for a second to shoot Gordons kid. Batman needed to react now.
 
I want to see Batman struggling even more with his choice of refusing to kill. Somebody needs to put him in a sadistic choice situation where the only options are to save one person, or save a group. Part of the greatness of Bats is his soul. He feels like he should have saved people even when there is no way he ever could've. At least this applies for innocents.
I'm really sick of people saying that he killed Ra's and Harvey. As far as Ra's is concerned, he just let Ra's decide his own fate. Ra's very well could have survived had he gotten up and jumped from the train. He's a ninja. And Harvey left Batman lying on the floor with a bullet in the stomach of his new, more vulnerable suit. Bats probably had the wind knocked out of him and got up just in time to see Harvey flipping the coin. As soon as the coin lands, Harvey wouldn't have hesitated for a second to shoot Gordons kid. Batman needed to react now.
Batman was the one who crashed the train. If you crashed somebody's car knowing it would kill them, that's a pretty clear cut case.
 
The extreme chaos and just vastness of the conflict of TDK can't be topped. And if it would be topped, it would be too much really. The last act of TDK was so chock-full it takes atleast two viewings to appreciate it more. I can't imagine a bigger conflict, I really can't. It would involve the destruction of the world or something.

After my first viewing of TDK I thought that the only way to top it was to go bigger, BIGGER, BIGGGGEERRRR! As in, a battle on the streets of Gotham between hordes of mobsters, vigilantes and cops. Now, instead I'm thinking of a smaller, more concentrated conflict. A very psychological one at that. Batman is hunted by police. There are many ethical questions. And an incredibly blurred line between good and bad. It's a classical western and film noir theme, power and authority and what they mean tot the people who have it. It was very well explored in TDK, but it doens't just stop there. These theme's can't be let go just like that. It takes atleast a whole other movie to delve deeper into it.

What even might be a goo idea is to bring the focus of this movie low, to the streets. To keep it on eye-level and really get down and dirty into the streets of Gotham. I'm thinking indeed of a more noir-esque story. A mysterious, grim detective story with very much emphasis on the characters. Batman as a detective and using again his beast-like quality. Whereas Batman was more like some Ultra soldier in TDK, in the next one he should be the monster of the night again. Shrouded in darkness at all times. The return of the Batcave would fit into this nicely. His original lair, where he became the beast.

But then again, this is Batman goddamnit. A million dollar franchise. That needs huge explosions and them beautiful city panorama's with Batman flying over 'em.

I'm soooo anxious to find out what they're gonna do with Batman3. Trouble is they don't even know it theirselves..
 
Carmine long time no see and man oh man you seem like your screaming for the Riddler in your post there. Make him just a genius that is one cut bellow Batman and he has an obssesion with being smarter than him. It just follows this second entry perfectly a detective story where the main villian does everything but killing the guards, that is the goons handy work.
 
i'd liek to see with the emergance of the freaks Batman is having to stay out more and more in his persona fighting crime to save the city as well as escape police so he's missing meetings, charity events, dates etc.
 
The extreme chaos and just vastness of the conflict of TDK can't be topped. And if it would be topped, it would be too much really. The last act of TDK was so chock-full it takes atleast two viewings to appreciate it more. I can't imagine a bigger conflict, I really can't. It would involve the destruction of the world or something.

After my first viewing of TDK I thought that the only way to top it was to go bigger, BIGGER, BIGGGGEERRRR! As in, a battle on the streets of Gotham between hordes of mobsters, vigilantes and cops. Now, instead I'm thinking of a smaller, more concentrated conflict. A very psychological one at that. Batman is hunted by police. There are many ethical questions. And an incredibly blurred line between good and bad. It's a classical western and film noir theme, power and authority and what they mean tot the people who have it. It was very well explored in TDK, but it doens't just stop there. These theme's can't be let go just like that. It takes atleast a whole other movie to delve deeper into it.

What even might be a goo idea is to bring the focus of this movie low, to the streets. To keep it on eye-level and really get down and dirty into the streets of Gotham. I'm thinking indeed of a more noir-esque story. A mysterious, grim detective story with very much emphasis on the characters. Batman as a detective and using again his beast-like quality. Whereas Batman was more like some Ultra soldier in TDK, in the next one he should be the monster of the night again. Shrouded in darkness at all times. The return of the Batcave would fit into this nicely. His original lair, where he became the beast.

But then again, this is Batman goddamnit. A million dollar franchise. That needs huge explosions and them beautiful city panorama's with Batman flying over 'em.

I'm soooo anxious to find out what they're gonna do with Batman3. Trouble is they don't even know it theirselves..
I think bigger is better in this one. We already saw Bats toying with big solutions for big problems with the sonar device. He should be tempted to do things like that again when things get out of hand. I'd love to see Gotham devolve into a power struggle like it was during Noman's land and Batman will be debating over whether or not to rule gotham rather than protect it.
 
I would have liked a throwback to Begins. Even just one line can make the two films feel connected.

"Applied sciences...a whole division of Wayne Enterprises just disappeared over night" - Mr. Reese

"It'll be nice when Wayne Manor's rebuilt" - Alfred

"With Carmine Falcone in Arkham somebody had to step in to take control of the so-called family" - Harvey Dent

And let's not forget the sequence with Scarecrow.

That should be plenty for throwbacks. :cwink:
 
The friggen Joker was a throwback to Begins. Didn't you stay for the end?
 
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I think one thing has already become painfully obvious. Nolan and Goyer can't handle any kind of chemistry between male and female characters. There's zero excitement in that department. No sexual tension, no sparkling of any kind. The relationship between Rachel and Bruce in the first movie was "meh" at best. The love triangle between Harvey, Bruce and Rachel was even worse. I mean Eckhart and Gyllenhaal had nothing going on and I also wasn't feeling Bruce's emotions towards Rachel. The kiss they shared...nothing, I tell you! Absolutely nothing.

I think this aspect may prove to be problematic if they decide to introduce Catwoman. We all know how amazing and electrifying the relationship between Batman/Bruce and Catwoman/Selina is suppose to be.

As perfect as he is, I don't think Nolan knows how to cast female leads very well.
 
The friggen Joker was a throwback to Begins. Didn't you stay for the end?

I understand what you're all saying, but to your response directly the Joker is not a "throwback". A continuing character is not a throwback, it's a continuation. If that were the case, the simple inclusion of Batman is a "throwback" which is dumb.

I meant a reference in the way someone above put lines from the film that referenced Begins. I liked the lines mentioned I would've just liked to see more.
 
We already have Lucius Fox working for him. The more people know he's Batman and work for him, the less integrity he has with the whole "I'm willing to put my life on the line, but it has to my mine, no-one else's". Batman should ultimately endeavour to work alone, his agenda is about putting the hardship onto one pair of shoulders so that others don't bear the burden.

The reality of the situation dictates otherwise. Look at the core nexus of support for Bruce/Batman - Jim Gordon, Alfred Pennyworth and Lucius Fox (Rachel Dawes is now deceased of course). They are vital to him in differing aspects, from anchoring him and keeping him grounded, to providing support both technical and investigative etc. Batman will always shoulder the burden because he is the one physically exerting himself and putting his corporeal self in harm's way. This will never change. Unless they bring in Robin/Nightwing...

Also, Reese doesn't have the cheeky charisma of Morgan Freeman's Lucius Fox. He served a role in TDK, but that doesn't mean he should be a regular installment.

Kill him.

With all due respect we didn't see much of Reese, so there's potential of development. Not to mention he wanted to blackmail Bruce, can't get more cheeky than that. He also knows Bruce's secret, he's not going to have him killed and I'd like the think the writers will be more creative than simply coldly disposing of him.

I think that's why Nolan destroyed the Tumbler, to set up a more traditional batmobile. Even in TDK, Nolan's batman continues to take steps towards establishing his position within the comics - a third film should continue that (Moving back into Wayne Manor too)

It's clear that Christopher Nolan et al have taken great inspiration from the comics and graphic novels, however I don't believe this is a conscious move on their part. Of course the character is heavily cemented within its comic origins, and this is where we'll see the similarities but there are differences set in the film which it make it a more Nolan shaped one.

I imagine a cross between a lamborghini and the tumbler. If I was Bruce Wayne I'd be looking at my lamborghini and picturing the addition of the tumbler's rear rocket booster...
*Hopes someone does a manip*

I'm not a very good illustrator or artist, however I've tried to come up with a template in my head, roughly what shape the vehicle would take. Here's a very rough idea :-



Chortle all you like, but it's what came to mind.


A little bit strong. Sure if it suits the story and the design is cool... but essential?

Not at all, I'm stating what I believe is essential. Everyone I'm sure has an idea of theirs is, so I'm stating mine. Naturally as Batman conducts his war on crime, he will utilise the environment more to aid in his campaign. Since Gotham is on the coastline, with presumably accessable waterways and maybe a river, why not create a Batboat to traverse the waters and pursue his adversaries. Perhaps he could interdict incoming freight shipping or he needs to head out to sea and requires a suitable mode of transport. It's also worthy to point out that one of the production designers; Nathan Crowley stated his wish to see a Batboat and I feel this is in tune with Batman's greater accruel of arsenal and technology to combat crime. To me it shows one aspect of how his modus operandi evolves.

As if Rachel's death wasn't enough heartbreak... this wouldn't make thematic sense at all.

What I was getting at is that the two women could represent the two sides of Bruce. On one hand his desire to fight crime as Batman and on the other his wish to lead a semblance of a normal life. We don't know how long after Rachel's death the film will be set. I'm not making any presumptions and merely posing a hypothetical.
 
The reality of the situation dictates otherwise. Look at the core nexus of support for Bruce/Batman - Jim Gordon, Alfred Pennyworth and Lucius Fox (Rachel Dawes is now deceased of course). They are vital to him in differing aspects, from anchoring him and keeping him grounded, to providing support both technical and investigative etc. Batman will always shoulder the burden because he is the one physically exerting himself and putting his corporeal self in harm's way. This will never change.

I don't actually agree with your perception here, but will refrain from detailing my disagreal because I have changed my mind, partly due to:

I'd like the think the writers will be more creative than simply coldly disposing of him.

Yes, killing him would be a little bit too easy. I'd like to see the writer play into the fact that his knowledge of Batman's identity is a real burden. I'd like to see the mob, the F.B.I, the GPD, and all sorts try to aquire his information, with Batman having to personally provide him with protective custordy. This in itself can be a creative dynamic, but also, it puts the man in a unique position with regards to Batman's need for information. By allowing himself to be taken into questioning by the F.B.I for instance, Reece could find out the stage/direction in which their investigation is heading, and help Batman to outsmart them. In this way, batman isn't putting him into a dangerous position - he's already in a dangerous position - he's just taking advantage of that.




Not at all, I'm stating what I believe is essential.
Yes, I understand it's your opinion - that is a given, surely. But still, the word essential is incredibly strong. What I consider to be essential is the return of the Nolan team, the return of the cast, a decent storyline etc. Everything else that I'm listing here is stuff that I'm desperate to see as a fan, and they're all related to the story. I'd never say that something as superfluous as the vehicles used, or even the action set pieces are essential to be one way or the other. A batboat isn't essential to the progressing story. No-one's going to remain in their seats at the end of the sequel, scratch their head and say, "well it was a good film, liked the story, blah blah... but why the **** wasn't there a batboat?"




What I was getting at is that the two women could represent the two sides of Bruce. On one hand his desire to fight crime as Batman and on the other his wish to lead a semblance of a normal life. We don't know how long after Rachel's death the film will be set. I'm not making any presumptions and merely posing a hypothetical.
Well have catwoman then.

But having two women makes any man look like a shallow he-****e. One of the aspects of tDK that I thought was a bit iffy was Rachel Dawes playing off two men at the same time. It would be even more questionable in Bruce Wayne's position, especially in light of Rachel's death.

Whether the film is set a month on or two years on from TDK, Rachel's death is going to be equally as relevant to the audience.
 
Hopefully we get something out of the pages of TDKR and see Batman triumphantly winning the confidence of Gothamites with Bats defeating the villians on a black horse, the movie would be a huge 4-hour epic therefore splitting it in two to make Batman 3 & 4.
 
The Batcave needs to make its first appearance with a rebuilt Wayne Manor awaiting TDK to use.
 
On the other hand, if they actually get a sparks-flying character relationship, it'll make the impact that much stronger.

Come to think of it, though? Maybe its Bale. I can't remember any movie with Bale where his chemistry with a woman was all that memorable.

maybe he's gay :o

The obvious point is that bale didn't even have that much screentime with the love interests (an ambiguous term as it is for this franchise), but I feel that what little he got he used it effectively. At least, i can't think of how else i would have wanted him to act in any of the scenes.

Plus, this is Bruce Wayne we're dealing with. His brooding state of mind isn't exactly in sync with the kind of playful relationships parker or Stark has. Catwoman, though, could be the perverse antidote to that...
 
I don't. One of the things I love about this franchise is that its actually believable that Batman does what he does. No way would he be able to be there for every mugging in the streets. He would however be able to track and break up drug deals and mob hits...things that are planned out. And that's what he does.

No he wouldn't--but you really think that with all that he does, he doesn't run into something like that every once in a while? I just want to see that happen, that's all.

Besides, previous incarnations have had him talking about stuff like "making the rounds." I could easily see that kind of thing coming into play. No, he can't be there for every mugging in the streets, and I don't see where it's ever been claimed that he does. But it does almost seem that Gordon's monologue was implying the emergence of that element (words like "guardian" and "protector"). It's a major element of the Batman mythos, and I don't think it should be rejected. Just one scene would be wonderful.
 
I don't actually agree with your perception here, but will refrain from detailing my disagreal because I have changed my mind, partly due to:

I don't see why a certain passage of mine should refrain you from posting whatever thought you had on the matter. I will re-iterate, the reality of a man in Batman's position dictates some sort of support network, in order for him to function. It would be nigh on impossible for one man to accrue all the resources and perform all the necessary actions that have aided Batman's endeavours if he didn't have others to help him. This doesn't demean or denigrate Batman's efforts and it certainly doesn't lessen his candour towards being the one that has to be in the firing line so to speak. He doesn't ask others to put their lives at risk - Lucius Fox gives him the technology, Alfred acts as a moral compass and Jim Gordon aids Batman by doing his duty as a police officer and chasing the criminal and corrupt. Thus whilst we can argue about whether Batman's 'integrity' on the matter has been compromised, it wouldn't be feasible nor realistic for Batman to do everything without having some form of aid.



Yes, killing him would be a little bit too easy. I'd like to see the writer play into the fact that his knowledge of Batman's identity is a real burden. I'd like to see the mob, the F.B.I, the GPD, and all sorts try to aquire his information, with Batman having to personally provide him with protective custordy. This in itself can be a creative dynamic, but also, it puts the man in a unique position with regards to Batman's need for information. By allowing himself to be taken into questioning by the F.B.I for instance, Reece could find out the stage/direction in which their investigation is heading, and help Batman to outsmart them. In this way, batman isn't putting him into a dangerous position - he's already in a dangerous position - he's just taking advantage of that.

I thought that if they brought in the Black Mask and Janus Cosmetics, then this would provide one good avenue for Mr. Reese to do some good for Bruce/Batman. I certainly feel by making him an eventual ally, this provides a fascinating dynamic. Of course it could also illustrate how Batman does inspire others to do good without needing to dress up like him like an inferior copy.


Yes, I understand it's your opinion - that is a given, surely. But still, the word essential is incredibly strong. What I consider to be essential is the return of the Nolan team, the return of the cast, a decent storyline etc. Everything else that I'm listing here is stuff that I'm desperate to see as a fan, and they're all related to the story. I'd never say that something as superfluous as the vehicles used, or even the action set pieces are essential to be one way or the other. A batboat isn't essential to the progressing story. No-one's going to remain in their seats at the end of the sequel, scratch their head and say, "well it was a good film, liked the story, blah blah... but why the **** wasn't there a batboat?"

Maybe my wording could've been better, or perhaps if I had applied it to essential technology then this would've been better. Although I do think this is an exercise in semantics and hyperbole. Everyone has a vision of what is essential to them, that's the point I was making. If we appeal to personal taste then who are you to tell someone they shouldn't label something as essential? I do not believe something such as the Batboat is inconsequential nor immaterial. I believe that in line with the comics the introduction of the Batboat would again add an additional dynamic in that Batman will be conducting his warfare on the waters and not just on the roads. Also it represents a genesis in his thinking and the actual armamments at this disposal. To me it is important because a Batboat would add some interesting new action scenes and shift the scenery away a little from just jumping off rooftops with an armoured car. I also feel it will be inevitable as Nathan Crowley a senior production designer from the franchise has stated his desire to create a Batboat of some kind.

Well have catwoman then.

I'm not interested in bringing Catwoman/Selina Kyle otherwise I would've mentioned her. Besides my personal misgivings about the inclusion of the character, David S. Goyer has stated that there would be no Penguin or Catwoman, which makes the matter a moot point.

But having two women makes any man look like a shallow he-****e. One of the aspects of tDK that I thought was a bit iffy was Rachel Dawes playing off two men at the same time. It would be even more questionable in Bruce Wayne's position, especially in light of Rachel's death.

I'm not so willing to dismiss it off-hand, stating that it would make a man seem like a "shallow he-****e" seems a little obtuse for my liking. All I was interested in was the possibility of conflict between Batman's and Bruce's identity. On one hand he has a yearning to settle down and lead a normal life, something others have taken for granted. Yet on the other hand he's met a character very similar to him, someone who is uniquely like him and a person who he can relate to. This isn't a requirement for me of course, it was merely a suggestion. Throwing out a hypothetical and see if it could work.

Whether the film is set a month on or two years on from TDK, Rachel's death is going to be equally as relevant to the audience.

I never stated otherwise, however for Bruce himself we don't know what state of mind he'll be in and it does in my opinion partly depend on the timeframe. Losing Rachel will have left a hole in him, a void and it is conceivable that he could meet someone who is able to fill that void. If they don't bother with any sort of love interest and just have Bruce pining and mourning over Rachel then fine by me. At this point in time I will not commit myself to a train of thought where we shouldn't entertain the notion that Bruce could meet someone. That's all.
 
I want the smoke capsules he uses to escape only with a slight twist. Have the smoke actually be a milder form of Cranes fear toxin gas developed by Lucious. He sits up on the rafters drops a couple in a room full of villainous sorts and then drops down. The criminals are even more frightened by him because they think Bats might kill them because of TDK and this is amplified by the mild dose of fear smoke or whatever you wanna call it. A lot of cool stuff could be done with this old gadget done in a slightly new way.
 
Are you seriously proposing that bats get people all high on **** to gain an edge??
well i guess since he uses violence and other methods that could be viewed as underhanded by some whats the difference, right? is it really worse to drug someone than it is to break their arm? interesting ethical dilemma. That is going to be interesting though to see how the underworld reacts once they think batman is homicidal, i never considered that.......
 
I don't see why a certain passage of mine should refrain you from posting whatever thought you had on the matter.
I don't agree with your perception, but it's not something I find so irksomely incongruous that I would consider challenging you about it. Hence why your re-iteration was superfluous.




However, this I do find irksome:
Gordon aids Batman by doing his duty as a police officer and chasing the criminal and corrupt.
Gordon is not 'batman support'. He's doing a job, he always was doing that job, and batman just happens to be performing a similar job - which is why they're allies. Gordon doesn't set out to aid batman, they just happen to be fighting for similar goals.



Everyone has a vision of what is essential to them, that's the point I was making. If we appeal to personal taste then who are you to tell someone they shouldn't label something as essential?
I'm not requesting that you alter your language, I'm just asking that you question how important the necessity for a Batboat is. Everything I've posted in this thread relates to something I would feel dissapointed if the sequel didn't adress, to the point where I wouldn't enjoy the overall experience of the film.

If you watched Batman Begins and The Dark Knight and thought, "They really should have had a batboat", and feel that not adressing this issue would dampen your experience of the third film, then sure, the inclusion of the batboat is clearly very important to you.

But to call something essential is to say that it's absence will totally ruin your experience otherwise. Will you really have your experience ruined by there not being a batboat?

Again, I'm under the understanding that this thread is about adressing issues that left you frustrated when watching previous films, rather than a wishlist of things that'd be cool to see. That's the difference between 'essential to be adressed' and 'something I'd really like to see done'. Nothing to do with semantics, but plain error with regards to denotation.



I do not believe something such as the Batboat is inconsequential nor immaterial. I believe that in line with the comics the introduction of the Batboat would again add an additional dynamic in that Batman will be conducting his warfare on the waters and not just on the roads. Also it represents a genesis in his thinking and the actual armamments at this disposal. To me it is important because a Batboat would add some interesting new action scenes and shift the scenery away a little from just jumping off rooftops with an armoured car. I also feel it will be inevitable as Nathan Crowley a senior production designer from the franchise has stated his desire to create a Batboat of some kind.
A valid justification of why you want to see the batboat. But justifications which prove that this is something you'd like to see, and think would be a natural thematic progression, an inevitable progress in production design etc. Not an essential factor in mainting the story's credibility.

If you had instead said something like;
"It's ridiculous that Batman hasn't extended his limits to include water-borne combat and interception"
or
"One of the major areas of the series I feel needs to be adressed is the necessity of combat on Gotham's waterways."

Then yeah, you'd be perfectly justified in saying 'I personally feel that a batboat is essential'. However, the points you actually raised confirmed my belief that you are misguided in your use of language, and if not lack the ability to prioritise the essential ingredients of narrative.


I certainly feel by making him an eventual ally, this provides a fascinating dynamic.
There's a difference between having a philisophical mentor and an arms dealer (Alfred and Lucius respectively) and having someone enter a dangerous active role in your crusade against crime. Even if you regard Alfred and Lucius (and even Gordon) as being a part of batman's 'core nexus of support', then the role you are describing is something beyond that.
 
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