The Dark Knight Rises The Official "What Do YOU Want in the Sequel?" Thread

[Copyright 2008]

No that's not the whole point of him taking the blame. That's part of it. The other part of it is to distance himself from everyone else, criminals thought he had rules and boundaries, of which Maroni called him on earlier in the movie. Now it looks to them that he has abandoned his rule and respect for law and moral code. Makes him that much more of an unknown. It's him totally committing himself to the idea of Batman. As Two-Face fans,I could understand why it kind of bums some people out that his character is done with, but it just fits and makes the story better and that's all we should really care about in the end.

I remember seeing a thread that asked would fans rather give up the Nolans as director/writer for the exchange of Two Face coming back in the sequel or keep it the way it was and keep the Nolans. I really couldn't believe it. Sacrifice the story for a character that first of all, isn't going to be the kind of character you see in the comics anyway? Ridiculous.

 

[[A]]

how many I am the Knight's are out there !?

 

[Ronny Shade]

No that's not the whole point of him taking the blame. That's part of it. The other part of it is to distance himself from everyone else, criminals thought he had rules and boundaries, of which Maroni called him on earlier in the movie. Now it looks to them that he has abandoned his rule and respect for law and moral code. Makes him that much more of an unknown. It's him totally committing himself to the idea of Batman. As Two-Face fans,I could understand why it kind of bums some people out that his character is done with, but it just fits and makes the story better and that's all we should really care about in the end.

I remember seeing a thread that asked would fans rather give up the Nolans as director/writer for the exchange of Two Face coming back in the sequel or keep it the way it was and keep the Nolans. I really couldn't believe it. Sacrifice the story for a character that first of all, isn't going to be the kind of character you see in the comics anyway? Ridiculous.

But all those things you said have been accomplished. Bringing Harvey back wouldn't undo them, it would compound them

 

[protoctista]

Holy crap, he's not coming back people!

Jesus.

 

[Copyright 2008]

What more purpose does Dent serve in the story? That entire movie was about him. Seriously I can't stress this enough: The more people understand that we were NEVER getting the Two-Face from the comics that is a schizo killer, the better they will understand this movie and why things happened the way they did.

 

[Ronny Shade]

What more purpose does Dent serve in the story? That entire movie was about him. Seriously I can't stress this enough: The more people understand that we were NEVER getting the Two-Face from the comics that is a schizo killer, the better they will understand this movie and why things happened the way they did.

I don't want him to be schizo-killer-dent. Also, I don't want him back if there's no reason for him to be back.

But think of it this way: How interesting does Dent become if he's locked up in a secret black ops prison somewhere and the world is told he's dead. What does that do to a man. Especially a man who's already lost it in one way.

It's a very interesting angle to explore.

 

[MaceB]

What more purpose does Dent serve in the story?

I feel like he's a character that could serve a lot of purposes.
1) He's a foil for Batman - plain and simple. When we hear or see Harvey, it actually gives us insight into Bruce.
2) He's the living embodiment of the conflict between good and evil. As such, he is the best link between normal people and the "freaks." He blurs the line between the two... which is always a good thing.
3) If he were put in jail for rehabilitation, (just as one possibility) it would further the idea that Gordon and Batman are willing to work outside the law in order to protect it.
4) In the comics, Batman worked very hard to bring Harvey back to sanity. This would fit PERFECTLY with the redemption theme (if there is even one), and would also function as a sort of window into Bruce's inner guilt - which ultimately links back to his parents.
5)Protecting the secret that Harvey Dent is still alive could prove dicey and full of drama as well.
6) Bruce and Dent could forge a relationship in which Bruce tirelessly comes to see Harvey. This would create tension cause Bruce and Harvey would be friends, but Batman and Two Face would be enemies.

etc, etc.... He's a powerful character that could have served a lot of functions in B3. It really is a waste.. but one that I accept. He's dead folks. Maybe one day we'll get the full Two-Face story, but not for a while. Still, you can't say that he has nothing more to add.... cause he does. The next movie will just have to make up for it in other ways I guess.

 

[Ronny Shade]

Plus, it would be so cool to see him all half-healed up with scar tissue all over his bad side.

 

[Copyright 2008]

I don't want him to be schizo-killer-dent. Also, I don't want him back if there's no reason for him to be back.

But think of it this way: How interesting does Dent become if he's locked up in a secret black ops prison somewhere and the world is told he's dead. What does that do to a man. Especially a man who's already lost it in one way.

It's a very interesting angle to explore.

You answered you're own question. He's already lost everything. He was willing to kill himself before Gordon's kid if chance so much fell that way. His purpose was to have chance take vengeance on those he felt were responsible, he did that. Like I said, the climax and resolution of this Harvey Dent/ Two-Face storyline has already been reached. Could they have stretched it out into a separate movie? Maybe. But Nolan never plans for the next movie. And it worked better this way, it forces Bruce Wayne to make a decision that was foreshadowed since the beginning of the movie. What will he do the day he finds out what his limits are? We find out at the end of TDK.

So now bringing back Dent from the dead for the purpose of a sequel for reasons like it would be "cool to see his scars healed" and it would be cool to see him in some top secret black ops prison (because, yeah that's EXACTLY the kind of direction Nolan would go in*) pretty much makes that decision pointless and thus the movie would be for nothing.



*sarcasm

 

[Mister J]

This issue has been beaten to death ...6 times over. There is no need for it to be kicked around ad nauseum in yet another thread when we have an unequivocal statement from the actor, as communicated to him by the director, that Harvey Dent is dead and not returning.

I ask those who wish to continue this maddeningly persistent exercise to oblige and take it to the appropriate thread, linked below, where such discussion has been rehashed enough to last us until a new Batman franchise is started. Please leave the points in this thread to those instances that actually have a snowball's chance in hell of occurring in the third film.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=307520

 

[Copyright 2008]

I don't think the discussion we are having is about whether or not he's dead, I think everyone in at least this thread have accepted that he is dead. It's about whether or not it was a mistake to have that character killed. And story wise, it wasn't. I can understand that some big Two-Face fans may have wanted it differently, but for the sake of the story and themes involved in TDK, it worked almost perfectly.

MaceB, you have to understand that once Rachael is killed and Dent is scarred there is no "good" side to him anymore. There is no split persona, a good Dent and the bad Two-Face. If anything he is a shell of the man he once was. There's no way he could be Bruce's or anyone's friend after that point, it's essentially over for him as far as his life aspirations and goals are concerned. The life he had before is gone forever. There is no chance for rehab or as he says "There is no escape from this." That's because the fatal fault he has is that is so sure of himself, so confident in his ability that he couldn't/wouldn't ever think about what there could be to lose. And the Joker turned that against him. The same thing happens to Bruce Wayne, the only real difference is that he is able to keep his faith in the good of the people and Dent lost it.

 

[Mister J]

The discussion over whether he's dead and/or the merits of killing the character off is still limited to TDK, not the sequel, where this is being housed. The thought of Dent's death being a mistake in the context of TDK has been conducted several times over as well in the above cited thread and I ask, again, that it and all other related talk be taken there.

 

[Copyright 2008]

Is it really that big a deal? We're still addressing things that could come out of Dent being killed for the possible third movie. That's how this current discussion came about, someone posted that in the sequel they wanted Dent (and Ra's) to come back. I had dialogue with that person over my opinion being how it wouldn't work. It's called discussion.

 

[Ronny Shade]

Because I discuss things online because I think I'm actually going to impact the way the movies are made? :

 

[Copyright 2008]

No I didn't mean that at all. It's just a debate, nothing vicious or personal or anything. At least that's all it is to me.

 

[Ronny Shade]

No, I'm not mad at you CR08.

I like your points. I agree with them mostly.

 

[IAmTheKnight]

I feel like he's a character that could serve a lot of purposes.
1) He's a foil for Batman - plain and simple. When we hear or see Harvey, it actually gives us insight into Bruce.
2) He's the living embodiment of the conflict between good and evil. As such, he is the best link between normal people and the "freaks." He blurs the line between the two... which is always a good thing.
3) If he were put in jail for rehabilitation, (just as one possibility) it would further the idea that Gordon and Batman are willing to work outside the law in order to protect it.
4) In the comics, Batman worked very hard to bring Harvey back to sanity. This would fit PERFECTLY with the redemption theme (if there is even one), and would also function as a sort of window into Bruce's inner guilt - which ultimately links back to his parents.
5)Protecting the secret that Harvey Dent is still alive could prove dicey and full of drama as well.
6) Bruce and Dent could forge a relationship in which Bruce tirelessly comes to see Harvey. This would create tension cause Bruce and Harvey would be friends, but Batman and Two Face would be enemies.

etc, etc.... He's a powerful character that could have served a lot of functions in B3. It really is a waste.. but one that I accept. He's dead folks. Maybe one day we'll get the full Two-Face story, but not for a while. Still, you can't say that he has nothing more to add.... cause he does. The next movie will just have to make up for it in other ways I guess.

The text in bold is the biggest reason I wanted Two-Face to remain alive. I want to see Bruce dealing with the fact that he's an outcast, hated by the public, the city is probably not doing so well, hopefully there will be a crime war with the freaks and organized crime, and add on top of that that he is feeling the guilt that he thought was conquered, now compounded with what has happened to Harvey. It's classic Bat-lore, and it would be completely appropriate for the natural direction of the story.

There's a poster whose username I've forgotten, but he has the idea of Freeze being the one that Bruce is trying so hard to save after not being able to save Harvey, and I think that with Two-Face dead, that's the way to go. If not Freeze, then some character with that role.

 

[Ronny Shade]

Ra's?

 

[IAmTheKnight]

Ehh...it could be interesting from the standpoint of addressing Batman's decision in Begins, and I'd love to see the Lazarus Pit utilized, whether on-screen or off (preferably on), as well as Talia, but for the "I have to save him" angle, I don't think it would be as successful.

I think if they were going with the trying to save someone angle (which I think they should), then it should be someone who could be saved, but Batman will have to go through hell to do it. Frankly, I don't see Ra's being swayed from what he does--and for some reason, I'm just not getting the resonance of going that route with him the I do with someone like Harvey or Victor.

 

[Ronny Shade]

After BB, I wanted to see Ra's come back.

After TDK I decided bringing people back was dumb they needed to keep it fresh.

Then I realized the "no rules" bit the Joker was running on makes a perfect segue into the supernatural...and bringing Ra's back is a great way to kick that off.

 

[Melkay]

After BB, I wanted to see Ra's come back.

After TDK I decided bringing people back was dumb they needed to keep it fresh.

Then I realized the "no rules" bit the Joker was running on makes a perfect segue into the supernatural...and bringing Ra's back is a great way to kick that off.

So, basically, you went nuts after seeing TDK.
Madness is like gravity.

 

[markstrange]

This:

 

[Ronny Shade]

So, basically, you went nuts after seeing TDK.
Madness is like gravity.

That film taught me that madness is beautiful.

And not to be ashamed of who I am.

 

[Melkay]

The good news is: Life has so many lessons in store for you.

Even the Joker was counting on the rules of physics (i.e. gravity) to make his allegories. Or his explosions. Some rules count all the time.

Leave the supernatural to post-Nolan movies.

 

[Bubastis]

I always viewed the Dark Knight as more of a companion piece than a sequel; because they both approach Batman in a different way, and cover completely different edges of the Batman Mytos.

Batman Begins
This movie focuses closely on The Long Halloween and The Man who falls. It's villains are Scarecrow, Ra's Ahl Ghul, and Carmine Falcone.
Everything in this film feels organic and yet grungy. Wet, rusty, rotting, and yet alive. The primary color tends to be brown. Most importantly, Batman is built up (brilliantly) as a beast. His presence is that of a monster, something larger than Bruce Wayne.
And it's all about FEAR.

The Dark Knight
This movie focuses on The Long Halloween and Misc. works by Frank Miller. It's villains are the Joker and Two-Face.
Everything in the film feels cold and steely, slick, with bits of corrupted grunge. Urban in a much more clean sense than Batman Begins. Batman here is played up as a detective. More clearly a human, he is seen by some as a vigilante, and by some as a hero. His suit is industrial and functional, wheras the last one looked very animalistic.
And it's all about corruption, duality, limits, and responsibility.

Where do we go from here?