The Dark Knight Rises The Official "What Do YOU Want in the Sequel?" Thread

[Asteroid-Man]

The next one will be dark, rainy-cloudy, muddy and bloody. The sky could have a reddish tint to it the music beeing much darker. The film being more face paced as Batman should be pursued by the police. Show the Gotham underground come back on top (we never got to see it on top, it just sort of referenced it in begins). Batman is now using his patience as a weapon and he's being more calm. (Think BTAS [he's aggressive when finding answers] to TNBA [calm but uses the enemies fear against them. Keeps his cool. He's pro at this now]). End the film in a way that the underground is still sort of around and that Batman is there to stay and no matter the fact that he may bend the rules, he's what Gotham needs right now. End it with a sense of acceptance.

 

[Slipping_Halo]

I actually saw the primary color of Begins as orange, like the sky at dusk. Then for TDK it was a cool blue, like night.

For a third movie, what I think makes sense is Mr. Freeze and Catwoman. I wouldn't go with The Riddler because it will seem like they're just trying to replace The Joker. I think The Riddler deserves better than to be marginalized that way. He could be a very interesting and engaging character. Unfortunately, he'd be under The Joker's shadow if put in the third film.

Catwoman represents A) a new love interest for Bruce as well as Batman, and B) one that can actually understand the duality he lives. Mr. Freeze reflects Batman's loss of Rachel, and they create a dichotomy in the ways they choose to react to the loss of their loved ones. Freeze also reflects how callous Batman could become if he isn't careful with himself.

That's what I see happening. There's just no way you can top Heath or The Joker, so I would avoid it completely and go for something totally different. This has plenty of opportunity for depth, character development, and action as well. The city hates Batman now and the cops are hunting him down. He and Gordon have to meet in secret to keep trying to clean Gotham up because of this. We can show lots of tension that way. Freeze could put the whole city in jeopardy with some terrible plot that mirrors his philosophy, Catwoman could be a kind of unpredictable and yet irresistible force in Batman and Bruce Wayne's life, and we have the new Wayne Manor and the real-deal Batcave as well. And I would love to bring Harvey Dent back to show some more of his psychological damage as a result of his injury, and that his motive wasn't just revenge, but that his philosophy actually changed. This also opens up the idea that the people of Gotham have to do something to save themselves--they can't just sit around waiting to be rescued by people like Dent or Batman.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Melkay]

I couldn't agree with you more. Dramatically speaking, the most logical choices for villains are Catwoman and Freeze (maybe some Riddler, to have a villain in the "chase Batman until exhaustion" plot). In fact, your reasons for bringing Freeze in are actually my reasons, and I thought that his only motivation would be to save hi wife's life, at all costs, even if it puts innocent lives at peril.

The problem is that Freeze cannot work in Nolan's Batman. I've come to realize there's no way of translating this character into the current level of realism, and if you adapt it the way it should be, then you strip the character off the things that made him threatening in the first place. The odds of having a somewhat faithful and yet dangerous Mr. Freeze are slim at best. I can't figure out a decent way without adding some major Sci-Fic... and even there, when I picture the frozen things in my head, well... it doesn't match with Nolan's Gotham.

Maybe he should use heavy artillery, instead of a freezing gun, leaving the freezing thing to important stuff, like preserving the bodies that he needs to harvest organs for research, to find a cure for Norah. But only in those moments. The rest of the time, big weapons. And he should exploit the extra-strenght the suit grants hims.

But even there, in what way would Freeze make an impending attack on the city? Take the city for ransom so the authorities give him enough money for research? Maybe add a lil' extra plot from BTAS:Subzero: Make Selina the only organ doner compatible with Norah Fries. That could work. Still, get both things together and it's not good enough.

Don't get me wrong, I love Freeze. Dramatically, he's our next main villain. But he's not adaptable enough to make him the villain of the big finale. It's just not feasible.

 

[Doc Samson]

As pointed out earlier, I feel the next film should be all out war for Gotham's streets. The mob, the Freaks, the cops and the Batman, all against each other. It's the logical evolution IMO, and it should, at its conclusion, leave Batman in his familiar place from the comics, having to deal with all of this forever, resolved to the fact that this isn't a mission with an end to it, and accepting it

 

[Slipping_Halo]

I don't really see how Freeze is so difficult to adapt. I mean, I suppose it's an outlandish concept but I think having a guy run around with half his face severely burned off is outlandish too. It's all in how you present it. The cryo suit and the freeze gun are all just technology. We've seen in the Nolan universe that technology can bring us cars that can jump and fabric that can become a glider with a simple electric pulse. I don't see the freeze gun being much of a problem. It's basically some kind of exaggerated fire extinguisher. I'm sure there's some logical way of explaining it.

Bottom line, though, is that Nolan's going to have to let the realism go a bit--otherwise he'll be quite limited in the villains he's able to use. A lot of the classic (and greatest) villains are a little too threatening to Nolan's realistic aspirations, and that means either less realism or no villains.

Anyway, I'm sure he'll come up with something fantastic that's nothing like this and blows everyone's minds. Being a comic fan and not really giving a squat about the realism part of it, this is where I'd go from the end of TDK if it were up to me.

 

[Melkay]

The cryo-suit... yeah, it can be done. But the freezing gun? That's really a lot more trickier, and you have to be careful because, if over-used, it can be really look stupid in the Nolan-world. There is a wide belief gap between what is essentially a mecha-armoured-suit and a freezing gun. Not even liquid nitrogen can be shoot in that way and the containing tanks are huge and heavy. And the biggest problem of all.... WHY would he be freezing people with such a weapon? Why not just kill them with less fancy, regular weapons? Why a freezing gun? Because it matches his theme?

Not only that doesn't make sense, it's also campy. And if we learned something about Joel Schumacher, is that Dini's Mr. Freeze is not campy.

I put a lot of trust in Nolan but I don't believe he's all-mighty and can't do wrong. When I don't figure out a way to adapt a certain guy, I don't think "What the heck, Nolan can do it. He work do miracles." That's cheap thinking, and I don't believe in miracles.

I do believe in his fondness of realism; of plausability and explanation. That's why Freeze is unlikely to happen.

 

[CaptainClown]

The cryo-suit... yeah, it can be done. But the freezing gun? That's really a lot more trickier, and you have to be careful because, if over-used, it can be really look stupid in the Nolan-world. There is a wide belief gap between what is essentially a mecha-armoured-suit and a freezing gun. Not even liquid nitrogen can be shoot in that way and the containing tanks are huge and heavy. And the biggest problem of all.... WHY would he be freezing people with such a weapon? Why not just kill them with less fancy, regular weapons? Why a freezing gun? Because it matches his theme?

Not only that doesn't make sense, it's also campy. And if we learned something about Joel Schumacher, is that Dini's Mr. Freeze is not campy.

I put a lot of trust in Nolan but I don't believe he's all-mighty and can't do wrong. When I don't figure out a way to adapt a certain guy, I don't think "What the heck, Nolan can do it. He work do miracles." That's cheap thinking, and I don't believe in miracles.

I do believe in his fondness of realism; of plausability and explanation. That's why Freeze is unlikely to happen.

High pressurized liquid nitrogen shooter used for breaking vault doors or locks reinforced doors.

 

[Slipping_Halo]

The cryo-suit... yeah, it can be done. But the freezing gun? That's really a lot more trickier, and you have to be careful because, if over-used, it can be really look stupid in the Nolan-world. There is a wide belief gap between what is essentially a mecha-armoured-suit and a freezing gun. Not even liquid nitrogen can be shoot in that way and the containing tanks are huge and heavy. And the biggest problem of all.... WHY would he be freezing people with such a weapon? Why not just kill them with less fancy, regular weapons? Why a freezing gun? Because it matches his theme?

Not only that doesn't make sense, it's also campy. And if we learned something about Joel Schumacher, is that Dini's Mr. Freeze is not campy.

I put a lot of trust in Nolan but I don't believe he's all-mighty and can't do wrong. When I don't figure out a way to adapt a certain guy, I don't think "What the heck, Nolan can do it. He work do miracles." That's cheap thinking, and I don't believe in miracles.

I do believe in his fondness of realism; of plausability and explanation. That's why Freeze is unlikely to happen.

What I meant was that he'll find something that works for him, and that may not necessarily be Mr. Freeze, and I'm sure it'll be good based on his track record so far.

As for the Freeze gun, yeah, it can be very campy, but it can also be his way of representing himself to the world around him. He could want to freeze people to make the world as cold and unfeeling as he has become. That could be the whole point of his crimes, besides his wife. I don't see it being hard to just stretch a liquid nitrogen gun to be a compact tank that fits on someone's back. I think that's just as plausible as a microwave emitter.

It doesn't have to turn people into blocks of ice, either. Suppose the gun works to give people the condition he has, making them need a cryo-suit to survive like he does?

Plus, I think having snow around Gotham would have great visuals. I really liked it in Burton's Batman, even though that movie sucked. The white could also work metaphorically to signify a wiping clean or starting again--for Batman, Gotham, and pretty much everyone--after the horrible things that went on in The Dark Knight.

 

[Doc Samson]

A couple of days ago, while watching TDK I thought about the tumbler and how it was inspired from The Dark Knight Returns and stuff...

That made me think how good this comic was and I thought well, how interesting it would be to see Batman in a couple of years. Like not coming back from retirement like in the comic but more like seeing the caped crusader during his last days. That francly is the only way I could see Nolan's Batman series end.

TDK happens a year after the events of BB and we already see how Bruce Wayne is tired, scarred and how he's ready to give his mantle to Harvey Dent quite easily. But imagine if it lasted 10 years...20 years.

Nowadays with SFX and technology we could easily make Bale look older, just look at Benjamin Button... And wouldn't that kinda make more sense to pick an older actor to play the Joker since Heath's death? I was thinking about maybe someone like Philip Seymour Hoffman (no penguin please) in the role of an older and pretty much bigger and changed Joker, I'm pretty sure he could keep some roots from TDK and no one is the same after 20 years.

We could see flashbacks from all these years Batman spent fighting crime and in the end he could actualy die or simply give his cowl to someone( wich is unlikely I'll admit).

If this sequel is the last of the series, it'd either means that the end of the third movie will show Batman ending his crimefighting career or that the story will take place years after the events of TDK.
It'd be just stupid to make the whole Nolan Universe last 3 years.

I've been thinking the same for awhile now, but I think Superman is such a vital part of that story that instead of using things loosely from it, I'd rather them make a direct adaptation some years down the road. I feel one of Bale's great strengths as an actor is how he can morph physically into a role, and there's no doubt in my mind that he could play the older Batman. However, TKDR story is too good to only take pieces from, I want them to treat it like Watchmen or Sin City. After Nolan's done, I don't see where else to go anyway, I sure don't want another director trying to do a Nolan Batman...

 

[Jick]

know what hasn't been done?
a memorable fight scene.

 

[GlasgowBat]

^says you............

 

[Jick]

says me.
it's not because he doesn't have powers that they can't make a great fight scene.

 

[GlasgowBat]

no it's not, as they proved in the garage fight and the tower fight in TDK.

excellent fight scenes, IMO.

i enjoyed the club fight as well, actually. nice and brutal.

 

[mavsmaniac21]

Good question. If we go from rotting and grungy to sleek and refined...what is the logical progression from here? Or, better yet, in an evolution of anything, what is the next most obvious step?

I think it'll have to return to it's grungy beginnings. Batman is an outcast, Gotham's White Knight is dead, and the Joker had the last laugh. We're going to have to see Gotham at it's very worst now, maybe even worse than before Bruce left for his training. Freaks everywhere, complete and total chaos. Police versus freaks, freaks versus normal crooks, freaks versus freaks, and everyone versus Batman.

I think it'll be a complete descent into chaos, even worse than in TDK. But there will be a rebirth. Batman is left on the run at the end of TDK. The mansion is being rebuilt, the cave is getting updated. Bruce will have to go back home, find his purpose again (we'll finally get a grave site visit, I'm betting), and remember why he got into this to begin with.

His suit will change into something far more visceral than what we've seen. It'll take the best of both so far---that of animal rage and hi-tech performance, combine them, and he'll be back as the perfect combination of both. We've seen him as the angry demon terrorizing crooks in BB, we've seen him as the detective and tactician in TDK, now we'll see the Batman we've always wanted to see---the calculating, brooding, dark gothic creature that we've grown to love in the comics. Since he isn't welcome in Gotham anymore, he's lost the love of his life and his one true hope for a normal life, now he's got nothing but this demon.

Or something like that.

This sounds like a movie I want to see

 

[spideyman101]

When it comes right down to it, because of Joker's legendary performance in The Dark Knight there are two obvious choices that will be sure to work:

1: Recast Joker and have him return to finish his task to corrupt Gotham's 3 Knights. Another villain is introduced for the sake of a new villainy face; Riddler seems to be the obvious choice, or perhaps Mad Hatter?

or

2: Don't recast Joker for memory of Heath Ledger. Only problem with this is that, if you add the obvious choice, Riddler, then you'll face the problem of him being only a mere shadow of Joker. I personally trust Nolan to recreate Riddler in the face of the sad, Joker-like performance by Jim Carey, but for many, it may seem like their just trying to replace Joker. Up to this point Riddler cannot be a stand-alone villain JUST because of TDK's Joker. BM3 will HAVE to have another villain because of the reasons above. Black Mask is a possibility, but for me, he'd be too similar to Two-Face. Mad Hatter, seems to me to be the only other option, if #2 choice is to be used.

I personally choose option #1.

 

[jwhitehouse]

The mob has been decimated. Lau is dead and most of the mob is in jail (the whole point of the end of TDK.) I don't think we'll see the mob in as big a role as it has been.

I'd like to see the deal Batman makes with Gordon at the end of TDK go badly: Batman is now perceived as the bad guy, and you have a new mayor or mayoral aide (perhaps Hugo Strange, going back to his roots) put a bounty on Batman's head. That leads to freaks popping up to pursue him (sort of like the bounty hunters in Empire Strikes Back).

At the same time, you have some sort of bigger, covert, possibly existential threat to uncover. Who that is, I'm not sure. We've seen Batman imitators. Maybe it's time for a Joker imitator? Harley Quinn would fit in well, though obviously the origin may have to change. (Which might be for the best).

But I think the are to explore is Batman v. the City government. The days of him liasing with it (like showing up in the bank vault) are over.

Also, they're going to have some sort of Catwoman story. I'd prefer it echo the Hush arc, though I don't think the rest of that story is a good one to adapt right now.

 

[StorminNorman]

No one is going to put a bounty on Batman's head.

 

[BareYourTeeth]

Originally posted by spideyman101
When it comes right down to it, because of Joker's legendary performance in The Dark Knight there are two obvious choices that will be sure to work:

1: Recast Joker and have him return to finish his task to corrupt Gotham's 3 Knights. Another villain is introduced for the sake of a new villainy face; Riddler seems to be the obvious choice, or perhaps Mad Hatter?

or

2: Don't recast Joker for memory of Heath Ledger. Only problem with this is that, if you add the obvious choice, Riddler, then you'll face the problem of him being only a mere shadow of Joker. I personally trust Nolan to recreate Riddler in the face of the sad, Joker-like performance by Jim Carey, but for many, it may seem like their just trying to replace Joker. Up to this point Riddler cannot be a stand-alone villain JUST because of TDK's Joker. BM3 will HAVE to have another villain because of the reasons above. Black Mask is a possibility, but for me, he'd be too similar to Two-Face. Mad Hatter, seems to me to be the only other option, if #2 choice is to be used.

I personally choose option #1.

Now that Dent's dead who's the third Knight?

 

[jwhitehouse]

No one is going to put a bounty on Batman's head.

I know I'm naive, but why? The guy supposedly killed a couple of cops and more. It seems to be the next logical step: the mob is in jail, but the government, unchecked by Batman, is out of control.

 

[StorminNorman]

No one put a bounty on the mob's head, they aren't going to pursue Batman harder than they pursued the mob or The Joker. Especially when he has the Police Comish in his back pocket.

 

[Vile]

With the mob in peices the freaks rise up to fill in the cracks.

Killer Croc (not the super-mutant one, but the original look) taking over the street tuffs in the wake of Gambol's demise. I picture him as a huge hulking Tony Montana-esque personality (no accent, of course) that could tear yer arms off.

Roman Sionis' company is making a play for Wayne Enterprises and I'd like to see Lucious actually consider it...after all, it was Batman NOT Bruce Wayne that hijacked control of the company and had it spy on 30 million people. Whats next? It would be nice to see some Bruce/Fox conflict. Of course that leads to ....

Roman's alter-ego, Black Mask making a play to consolidate the mobs and take them somewhere they have never been before...corporate. Why run the risk of running into the Batman on collection day when you can simply sit back and collect your money thru the corporate world?

On the otherside, you have Gordon having to hunt Batman so you could have some cool GCPD vs Bats stuff, but in the end I'd like to see the mayor give Gordon a verbal smack down in the vein of "Look, you SAY you are hunting this killer but how dedicated are you? Get the job down NOW or I'll find someone who will." At that point Gordon could realize that going after Batman is stupid. Going after the man under the mask on the either hand...? Enter Edward Nigma, a facilitator who is hired by the cops to discover WHO Bats is and take him down.

With all this violence and blood running thru the streets I'd like to see Black Mask make a play for the city: He could provide a safe Gotham thru totalitarian control. What does Batman offer?

Just some thoughts.

 

[jwhitehouse]

No one put a bounty on the mob's head, they aren't going to pursue Batman harder than they pursued the mob or The Joker. Especially when he has the Police Comish in his back pocket.

Not to beat a dead horse, but that's what would make this the villain; and it would be in some ways something new: an enemy in the establishment, but not one defined by corruption, although there could certainly be a corrupt element if Nolan chose to go that route.

And Gordon did say that he wanted Joker dead or alive in TDK. I agree a straight bounty hunter route would be ridiculous, but a cash reward for information leading to Batman's capture is pretty realistic.

Also, I think the situation, Batman believed to be a cop killer, has to create some public tension between the government and Batman, Gordon notwithstanding.

The point is that redemption cannot be Batman 'coming clean.' Coming clean just undoes the entire premise of the ending of TDK, and frees all those Dent (presumably) convicted, although it seems it never got further than the arraignment.

 

[Mindreaper21]

A really dirty gothic take. I want to see Batman posted up on a gargoyle for once.

 

[cerealkiller182]

Snow somehow always adds cool atmosphere to a gothic setting, so a winter release could be cool. Its already a fan favorite franchise, it doesnt necesarily need the summer blockbuster spot.

No Man's Land: Earthquake could be cool. Gotham has always mirrored Bruce Wayne's character. After the death of his parents Bruce was "lost" and so was Gotham. But when Batman entered the picture, both were better. Gotham was safer and Bruce was even considering giving up on Batman. But then Joker happened. Gotham is back in a state of turmoil and Bruce is back as Batman, who is now seen as more of a fugitive than before. A concept that would couple with Gotham experiencing an earthquake. Its also an interesting curve ball that would keep in line with Nolan's (or at least his fans') obsessive realism. The quake couples with a more down to earth villain.

Bane or Deadshot: Test Batman physically. Either could throw him for a loop. Bane is stronger and Deadshot is super talented with guns which batman refuses to use (hes not some thud blindly shooting in the dark). Gotham has been attacked and Batman stood up for it, but now Batman needs to be targeted personally. Bane or Deadshot, too theatrical assassins, would fit the mold.

 

[Slipping_Halo]

AH CHOO...double post.