The Dark Knight Rises The Official "What Do YOU Want in the Sequel?" Thread

[Mr. Earle]

Yes, and then they made them add Batgirl because they didn't want people to think Batman and Robin were

Spoiler

JESUS!!! Those pics!

 

[Secret Fawful]

I know! That's some hot stuff, right? I know I'M turned on.

 

[The Guard]

I loathe Robin arguments. And yet I love them so, so much.

 

[ALP]

The funny thing is that of all the horrible things Schumacher did to the Batman film franchise, one of the smartest things he did was make Robin a young teenage adult (eighteen) so that it would make more sense as to why Batman would willingly take him on as a sidekick. It still amazes me that he understood that fundamental flaw with that character relationship.

I personally feel the exact opposite. As Mr. Earle said it loses the surrogate father/son aspect when Dick is an adult. I also think you are giving Schumacher far too much credit when you say he understood a fundamental flaw of the character. Mostly, a little boy fighting crime alongside Batman facing off against goofy renditions of Two Face and Riddler would have fit perfectly in Schumacher's world. That is a good argument for Nolan's world but not what Schumacher presented. The reason Schumacher cast an 18 year old was so it would bring in a young cool crowd. This is stated on the supplements of Forever. Chris O'Donnell even got his ears pierced for the role so he'd be cool and hip looking.

This was not Schumacher understand a character flaw, it was trying to make the film hip as possible. Michael Bay did the exact same thing with Transformers. In the original series Spike Witwicky is 14 years old when he discovers the autobots but in Bay's films he's a young adult with a hot girlfriend because that is what would draw in the biggest audience. But hey, I suppose one could argue it's more realistic for the autobots to receive help from a 20 year old than risking the life of a little boy. Btw as far as Robin, I thought Schumacher did handle him very well overall but I think it would have faired better if the character were, say, 14 or 15.

 

[The Guard]

As Mr. Earle said it loses the surrogate father/son aspect

To a point. Schumacher added the "brothers" angle, which also worked well.

He cast an 18 year old because it is perceived that most people think a very young Robin is ridiculous, and because he likes Nightwing, and wanted to more or less go straight there. He originally had Robin saying his name was "Nightwing" in a draft of BATMAN & ROBIN.

 

[ALP]

Good point about Nightwing. He even wore the costume in B&R lol

I imagine had Triumphant got made, Robin would have left.

 

[Saint]

Batman is a trilogy and in a trilogy a certain sense of closure is expected at the end of the third part. Leaving it on a cliffhanger (and it is a cliffhanger. A boys parents randomly dying in front of Bruce then the movie ending is a cliffhanger) would just be pointless.

Well, no. If something has a point, then it's not pointless, is it? And that point would be exactly what I described: to underscore the ongoing moral challenges and uncertainty that Bruce Wayne is going to face, should he continue to operate as Batman.

Inception was not part of a series.

Can you explain how ending a stand-alone film ambiguously is acceptable, but ending the last film in a series is not? I don't see a logical distinction there.

 

[Saint]

Also, wasn't Robin added in by the then EIC because he felt the book was too dark and he wanted to attract a younger readership? Robin's very creation has little to do with credible construction of a proper narrative and everything to do with trying to milk the books for higher sales.

Who cares? Sorry for just picking this one line out of your post, and don't take this as a personal attack, but this is a pet peeve of mine. I see this or other variations of the same idea all the time--like those who say that Batman is only grey because of colouring limitations that existed when he was created.

The truth is that it super doesn't matter. The "It was just a business decision or technical limitation" argument is, in fact, the most irrelevant argument ever, because the content of every Batman comic ever published has been informed by business decisions and technical limitations. Batman's existence was a business decision. The character was commissioned to capitalize on the popularity of Superman. That's the definition of "Milking for sales." That reality does not change the value of the final product.

Everybody on the Hype should read this post and then never bring up this argument again.

 

[nogster]

What do I want in the sequel.

A wrap around cape!

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Who cares? Sorry for just picking this one line out of your post, and don't take this as a personal attack, but this is a pet peeve of mine. I see this or other variations of the same idea all the time--like those who say that Batman is only grey because of colouring limitations that existed when he was created.

The truth is that it super doesn't matter. The "It was just a business decision or technical limitation" argument is, in fact, the most irrelevant argument ever, because the content of every Batman comic ever published has been informed by business decisions and technical limitations. Batman's existence was a business decision. The character was commissioned to capitalize on the popularity of Superman. That's the definition of "Milking for sales." That reality does not change the value of the final product.

Everybody on the Hype should read this post and then never bring up this argument again.

Agreed. Best example of this is easily the comics code cracking down on Batman's use of guns and deadly force.

It was made for the wrong reasons, but ended up serving the character in the long run. It only logically fit his psych profile, and it served as the impetus for one of Batman's most compelling and long-lasting character traits - his hatred of firearms.

 

[bullets]

I don't really think this is a problem; I think everybody knows that everybody knows Dick Grayson is Robin.

Anyone who is somewhat familiar with Batman would pick up on it . I think a mention or a nod would be cool depending on what they intend to do with the franchise after this.

 

[RustyCage]

As Mr. Earle said it loses the surrogate father/son aspect

To a point. Schumacher added the "brothers" angle, which also worked well.

He cast an 18 year old because it is perceived that most people think a very young Robin is ridiculous, and because he likes Nightwing, and wanted to more or less go straight there. He originally had Robin saying his name was "Nightwing" in a draft of BATMAN & ROBIN.

This is actually something I liked about Batman & Robin. Since Clooney was cast, and from the presentation, it felt more like Robin was his son and Alfred was his father/grandfather figure. Definitely a family movie.

But I did enjoy the 'brothers' angle in Forever. It worked. Guh, I can't believe you guys have me wanting to watch those two films again, after all this time I've spent willfully not buying them on DVD and shooing newcomers away from them.

And frankly, Robin could just as well have called himself Nightwing in B+R, he rather looked the part by the end of the film anyway. I wouldn't have minded.

 

[Gianakin_]

Wasn't Robin's logo in B&R the Nightwing one, anyway?

And, regarding what Guard said, wasn't there a scene in BF whre Dick says "What sould my nickname be? Nightwing?" and some others.

 

[Bat-Mite]

The reason Schumacher cast an 18 year old was so it would bring in a young cool crowd.

Actually, he was 24 or 25 when Forever was made, which just makes it even worse. Shoulda gone that extra step and cast a 30 year old with a five o'clock shadow as Robin.

 

[Travesty]

Wasn't Robin's logo in B&R the Nightwing one, anyway?

Or do you mean "did Robin crash his motorcycle through a wall, and create a perfect Nightwing emblem?"....yes, yes he did.

But yeah, he sported the Nightwing emblem.

 

[Gianakin_]

Or do you mean "did Robin crash his motorcycle through a wall, and create a perfect Nightwing emblem?"....yes, yes he did.

But yeah, he sported the Nightwing emblem.

Yup, I meant both. That guy can ride a bicycle.t:

 

[ALP]

Who cares? Sorry for just picking this one line out of your post, and don't take this as a personal attack, but this is a pet peeve of mine. I see this or other variations of the same idea all the time--like those who say that Batman is only grey because of colouring limitations that existed when he was created.

The truth is that it super doesn't matter. The "It was just a business decision or technical limitation" argument is, in fact, the most irrelevant argument ever, because the content of every Batman comic ever published has been informed by business decisions and technical limitations. Batman's existence was a business decision. The character was commissioned to capitalize on the popularity of Superman. That's the definition of "Milking for sales." That reality does not change the value of the final product.

Everybody on the Hype should read this post and then never bring up this argument again.

Brilliantly well said. From what I have read, DC made a poll on whether or not to kill Jason Todd. It was a choice that seemed to have been made to sell as many copies as possbile. And apparently it worked.

What do I want in the sequel.

A wrap around cape!

Always loved his cape in Long Halloween. It also wrapped him in Begins.

Actually, he was 24 or 25 when Forever was made, which just makes it even worse. Shoulda gone that extra step and cast a 30 year old with a five o'clock shadow as Robin.

This reminds me of that old joke about Michael Jackson wanting to be adopted by Brad and Angelina

 

[Changeling]

I want:
at least Dick Grayson if not Robin
Strange in a Batman costume,
CATWOMAN!
New batcave, new batmobile (or the return of the tumbler)
Bruce visiting the grave of the Waynes
A cameo from some lesser known villain in the same vein as Zsasz in BB.

I'd also like Bane and Strange to both be the villains but I won't be angry if Bane isn't in it

 

[Polux]

This is actually something I liked about Batman & Robin. Since Clooney was cast, and from the presentation, it felt more like Robin was his son and Alfred was his father/grandfather figure. Definitely a family movie.

But I did enjoy the 'brothers' angle in Forever. It worked. Guh, I can't believe you guys have me wanting to watch those two films again, after all this time I've spent willfully not buying them on DVD and shooing newcomers away from them.

And frankly, Robin could just as well have called himself Nightwing in B+R, he rather looked the part by the end of the film anyway. I wouldn't have minded.

What I always found to be funny is that (with the suits on), Robin looked just as tall and "buffer" than Batman; Clooney´s suit was just a skinny suit...



Polux.

 

[Polux]

Also, I always liked the idea of Batman trainning a "replacement", since he´s well aware of his own mortality, that way, while helping Dick with his trauma, he´s making sure that the war on crime stays on.

I think that scenario could work, since it would have Bruce adopting a young/teenage Dick, creating the father/son relationship, but also Robin (or Nightwing) wouldn´t show up till he´s like 17 or 18.

What I cannot remember is if that´s an angle that´s been mentioned in any comic or something I just imagined

What do you think?

Polux.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Also, I always liked the idea of Batman trainning a "replacement", since he´s well aware of his own mortality, that way, while helping Dick with his trauma, he´s making sure that the war on crime stays on.

I think that scenario could work, since it would have Bruce adopting a young/teenage Dick, creating the father/son relationship, but also Robin (or Nightwing) wouldn´t show up till he´s like 17 or 18.

What I cannot remember is if that´s an angle that´s been mentioned in any comic or something I just imagined

What do you think?

Polux.

I dig it a lot.

At this point, Bruce is aware that this is a long-term gig, as well as an increasingly dangerous one. I can see him looking towards the future in training not just a partner, but an eventual successor.

That way, you get to bring Dick in while pleasing those who don't like the idea of a kid running around fighting crime. Plus, you get to deal with the notion of "legacy" and pay homage to Dick's recent run as Batman in the comics.

I always thought it'd be cool if Batman took an approach like the Phantom, where the successor is seemlessly introduced so that villains believe him to be an immortal.

 

[DigitalKill]

I would like to see Eva Green in one of Nolan's Batman films. I think she would fit wonderfully.

 

[the amazing fro]

Well, no. If something has a point, then it's not pointless, is it? And that point would be exactly what I described: to underscore the ongoing moral challenges and uncertainty that Bruce Wayne is going to face, should he continue to operate as Batman.

Its a loose and not the sort of ambigious loose end that nolan likes (and works well) but one that would feel extremely tacked on. If then, in the next batman film the next director doesn't want to do robin (which would be hard to get out of since Nolan, unfairly, has sort of thrust robin upon him/her) then it pretty much would be pointless wouldn't it?

Even if the next batman film (after DKR) reboots (which I hope it doesn't) I doubt that Nolan would tease something that only the fans could really get (many people know robin but very little know his origins. Most people think hes batmans son) and then just leave it at that.

 

[Saint]

Its a loose and not the sort of ambigious loose end that nolan likes (and works well) but one that would feel extremely tacked on.

No; whether it feels "tacked on" or not is entirely a function of what story is being told and how it is executed.

If then, in the next batman film the next director doesn't want to do robin (which would be hard to get out of since Nolan, unfairly, has sort of thrust robin upon him/her) then it pretty much would be pointless wouldn't it?

Any director who continues this series should be prepared to work within the confines Nolan has created, regardless of what they are--though I don't really want to see this series continue without Nolan, anyway. The next director can do his own thing.

Even if the next batman film (after DKR) reboots (which I hope it doesn't) I doubt that Nolan would tease something that only the fans could really get (many people know robin but very little know his origins. Most people think hes batmans son) and then just leave it at that.

As I wrote earlier in this thread, I think pretty much everyone who knows Robin knows he's Dick Grayson--but if they don't, it doesn't really matter. If you tell your story correctly, people can grasp the implications without being familiar with the mythos. One would have to be pretty dim not to realize "Oh, that must be the kid who becomes Robin."

 

[The Guard]

Any director who continues this series should be prepared to work within the confines Nolan has created, regardless of what they are--though I don't really want to see this series continue without Nolan, anyway. The next director can do his own thing.

What confines?

Short of a more serious take, outlawing spandex and simply not using Clayface-level villains, what confines has he set that must be adhered to?