The Official "Wolverine at Comic-Con" Thread

[BMM]

 

[danoyse]

Gavin Hood is a GREAT director.

Watch Tsotsi, watch Rendition.

I loved Tsotsi. I didn't like Rendition. The torture scenes were brutal, but the characters were terrible and the story had this weird twist at the end that didn't fit with the rest of the movie. I also thought the points they were trying to make didn't go deep enough. I've read articles about actual extraordinary reneditions that disturbed me far more than this movie did.

And I don't think anyone in their right mind should expect anything to be next year's TDK, I don't care what movie it is. TDK was probably the best superhero/crime movie I've seen. It's almost unfair to expect every movie you see after that to live up those kind of expectations, because you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Of course you can always hope that it's that good.

 

[SNIKT1950]

And I don't think anyone in their right mind should expect anything to be next year's TDK, I don't care what movie it is. TDK was probably the best superhero/crime movie I've seen. It's almost unfair to expect every movie you see after that to live up those kind of expectations, because you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

See, what you're doing here is basically saying Dark Knight CAN'T be topped.

I got news for you: there are OTHER Dark Knights.

The French Connection.

The Getaway.

Dog Day Afternoon.

Year of The Dragon.

Heat.

Before you make Dark Knight out to be the CENTURY's greatest crime epic, you need to start watching movies that were AS good or even BETTER and that came out BEFORE it.

The whole "Dark Knight can never be topped" theory is crap.

It CAN be topped.

Here's more news: Wolverine CAN top it.

The question is "Will it?"

To dismiss that possibility is to dismiss Hugh Jackman's references to The Gauntlet, Mad Max, Once Upon a Time In The West and Batman Begins when describing X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

When Chris Nolan described Dark Knight back in '07, he referenced a little movie called HEAT.

The first Trailer for Dark Knight was EPIC.

The Comicon Traler for Wolverine was EPIC.

Let's see if the movie matches the Trailer's epicness in 7 months.

 

[Angamb]

First Big difference between XO: Wolverine and The Dark Night:

The cast.

Christian Bale
Michael Caine
Morgan Freeman
Heath Ledger
Gary Oldman
Aaron Eckhart
Maggie Gyllenhaal

Wolverine don't have such a great cast.

 

[SNIKT1950]

Heath Ledger should be at the top of that list.

He's the reason Dark Knight is what it is.

 

[Angamb]

Dark night has many scenes and Heath isn't in all, so that's not the point.

We're are talking about the quality of the movie, but all the movie, not just the Joker scenes.

 

[SNIKT1950]

You brought up the cast of Dark Knight as a big advantage over Wolverine.

Is Gary Oldman being groomed for an Oscar? No.

Is Aaron Eckhart being groomed for an Oscar? No.

Is Christian Bale being groomed for an Oscar? No.

Heath Ledger IS the quality of the movie.

The Joker scenes MAKE that movie what it is.

For months, Critics have been saying they couldn't wait for the next scene featuring Heath to come, and the scenes in between were just long waits.

*Let me also bring up the fact that Danny Huston is a fantastic actor (The Proposition) and Liev Schreiber may get an Oscar Nomination for his role in Edward Zwick's Defiance.

Schreiber already had a Golden Globe nomination as did Jackman.

 

[danoyse]

See, what you're doing here is basically saying Dark Knight CAN'T be topped.

I got news for you: there are OTHER Dark Knights.

The French Connection.

The Getaway.

Dog Day Afternoon.

Year of The Dragon.

Heat.

Before you make Dark Knight out to be the CENTURY's greatest crime epic, you need to start watching movies that were AS good or even BETTER and that came out BEFORE it.

The whole "Dark Knight can never be topped" theory is crap.

It CAN be topped.

Here's more news: Wolverine CAN top it.

The question is "Will it?"

To dismiss that possibility is to dismiss Hugh Jackman's references to The Gauntlet, Mad Max, Once Upon a Time In The West and Batman Begins when describing X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

When Chris Nolan described Dark Knight back in '07, he referenced a little movie called HEAT.

The first Trailer for Dark Knight was EPIC.

The Comicon Traler for Wolverine was EPIC.

Let's see if the movie matches the Trailer's epicness in 7 months.

No...I believe The Dark Knight can be topped, I just don't set the bar so high that every movie that comes after it will be "this year's TDK."

I loved TDK, but I'm not one of these crazed fans. I didn't even see it until the 2nd week it was out, but I saw it twice and thought it was great, and it will be a tough act to follow. I think Iron Man raised the bar on these movies as well.

And I've seen plenty of crime movies, so I have plenty of movies to compare it to. In fact, I've seen better ones than the examples you gave

I can't wait for Wolverine, but...it's Fox, and there's rumored production drama...and we all know how that worked out last time.

Hugh's one of my favorite actors, but I realize he's also trying to sell his movie, so of course he's going to hype up into the stratosphere.

Like I said, I'm definitely still psyched to see the movie, but I'm not going to overhype it for myself, either.

 

[Celestial]

Wolverine doesn't have to be better than The Dark Knight but it does have to be better than X3. If my expectations are moderate, I should enjoy it and if it turns out better, I'm still a winner.

TDK had a great ensemble cast but many of the actors were underused, even Christian Bale who ended up with a supporting role in a Batman film. It worked as a story but I still felt a bit cheated. I'm hoping that the producers of Woverine don't go that way.

 

[danoyse]

If it's better than X3, I will be very happy.

 

[shadowdog]

You brought up the cast of Dark Knight as a big advantage over Wolverine.

Is Gary Oldman being groomed for an Oscar? No.

Is Aaron Eckhart being groomed for an Oscar? No.

Is Christian Bale being groomed for an Oscar? No.

Heath Ledger IS the quality of the movie.

The Joker scenes MAKE that movie what it is.

For months, Critics have been saying they couldn't wait for the next scene featuring Heath to come, and the scenes in between were just long waits.

*Let me also bring up the fact that Danny Huston is a fantastic actor (The Proposition) and Liev Schreiber may get an Oscar Nomination for his role in Edward Zwick's Defiance.

Schreiber already had a Golden Globe nomination as did Jackman.

well that's not really fair to say, how cam Jim Gordon or Alfred's scenes ever hope to stand up to the Joker's? Even if their acting skills were better, they don't have nearly as fascinating a chatacter, as interesting dialogue, etc. to work with.
Of course his scenes made the movie, he was the crazy guy with the good lines and awesome makeup

 

[the a1ant]

If it's better than X3, I will be very happy.

Ditto. And if it's better than X2, then I'll be extremely happy

 

[SNIKT1950]

If it's better than X2, then I'll be extremely happy

X2 is highly overrated.

Good film, but nothing spectacular.

The best scenes belonged to Jackman and much like Ledger's Joker, you couldn't wait to see him on-screen again.

I think Wolverine being better than the X-MEN films is a given.

Hugh can do what he does best without having to compete for screentime.

Sabretooth, Gambit, Deadpool, Emma Frost ---> they all revolve around him, not next to him.

 

[shadowdog]

yeah, but do you think if this was a movie with Wolverine as the only Marvel character, it would still do as well. His story might be the most anticipated, or possibly people just wnat him to have more screen time, but the supporting cast and villains are also going to be a huge draw.

 

[Doctor Jones]

You brought up the cast of Dark Knight as a big advantage over Wolverine.

Is Gary Oldman being groomed for an Oscar? No.

Is Aaron Eckhart being groomed for an Oscar? No.

Is Christian Bale being groomed for an Oscar? No.

Heath Ledger IS the quality of the movie.

The Joker scenes MAKE that movie what it is.

For months, Critics have been saying they couldn't wait for the next scene featuring Heath to come, and the scenes in between were just long waits.

*Let me also bring up the fact that Danny Huston is a fantastic actor (The Proposition) and Liev Schreiber may get an Oscar Nomination for his role in Edward Zwick's Defiance.

Schreiber already had a Golden Globe nomination as did Jackman.

Good god, you're just one of those people who just saw this movie for Ledger didn't you?

 

[SNIKT1950]

Good god, you're just one of those people who just saw this movie for Ledger didn't you?

Ledger IS the movie.

 

[BMM]

X2 is highly overrated.

Good film, but nothing spectacular.

The best scenes belonged to Jackman and much like Ledger's Joker, you couldn't wait to see him on-screen again.

I think Wolverine being better than the X-MEN films is a given.

Hugh can do what he does best without having to compete for screentime.

Sabretooth, Gambit, Deadpool, Emma Frost ---> they all revolve around him, not next to him.

That's not even remotely true. Given your love for Jackman, perhaps you couldn't wait to see him on-screen again, but there are plenty of others who will disagree with you, especially in regards to comparing Jackman's Wolverine with Ledger's Joker. Wolverine doesn't have the best scenes of X2. Moreover, Wolverine isn't even the show-stopper of X2, Nightcrawler is.

 

[SNIKT1950]

That's not even remotely true. Given your love for Jackman, perhaps you couldn't wait to see him on-screen again, but there are plenty of others who will disagree with you, especially in regards to comparing Jackman's Wolverine with Ledger's Joker. Wolverine doesn't have the best scenes of X2. Moreover, Wolverine isn't even the show-stopper of X2, Nightcrawler is.

Nightcrawler?

NIGHTCRAWLER???

You mean the guy with the good opening that then became a useless character in the film?

The scene where everyone in the theatre raved about, and the scene Roger Ebert LOVED was the invasion at the mansion.

Wolverine's attack on the soldiers was the high point of X2

Even the people behind X2 (Singer, Hayter, Shuler-Donner, Palermo, Dougherty) all agreed [on the DVD commentary] that scene starring WOLVERINE owned the spotlight.

Nightcrawler had a cool intro.

Wolverine had a super cool MASSIVE killing spree.

Wolverine gets shot in the face and walks right back up.

Wolverine makes out with Famke.

Wolverine remembers a flashback of his escape from Weapon X.

Wolverine kills Deathstrike.

Who's got more cool scenes? Or better yet who's scenes matter?

And we both know which character is getting his own spinoff movie.

It sure as hell isn't Nightcrawler.

 

[BMM]

Nightcrawler?

NIGHTCRAWLER???

You mean the guy with the good opening that then became a useless character in the film?

No. I mean the guy with the great opening scene that automatically became one of the most memorable in the entire genre… and from a character that the Hollywood machine doesn’t shove down the throats of audiences in an attempt to make up their minds for them.

The scene where everyone in the theatre raved about, and the scene Roger Ebert LOVED was the invasion at the mansion.

So much so that he forgot to mention it in his review (both of them)... Funny enough, he mention's Nightcrawler's as one of the best.

Wolverine's attack on the soldiers was the high point of X2

Wolverine’s attack on the soldiers is the high point for Wolverine, and it isn’t even the most visually exciting scene of the movie, nor does it have the most memorable dialogue. The build up to that scene, which had been foreshadowed since X-Men, is exciting in and of itself and not simply because Hugh Jackman is on-screen. The school could have been attacked with Cyclops, Jean, and Storm retaliating in place of Wolverine and it would have been a highlight of the movie because of what it represents.

Even the people behind X2 (Singer, Hayter, Shuler-Donner, Palermo, Dougherty) all agreed [on the DVD commentary] that scene starring WOLVERINE owned the spotlight.

What are you talking about? No they don't. At no point do they say anything like that. I've just listened to them. Singer discusses ratings issues, technical issues, and Daniel Cudmore. Shuler-Donner, Winter, Dougherty, Harris, and Hayter discuss other mutant cameos, especially Colossus, and other technical issues such as the Danger Room and Iceman's ice wall. They hardly discuss Wolverine at all... and John Palermo isn't even a producer on X2.

Nightcrawler had a cool intro.

Wolverine had a super cool MASSIVE killing spree.

Wolverine gets shot in the face and walks right back up.

Wolverine makes out with Famke.

Wolverine remembers a flashback of his escape from Weapon X.

Wolverine kills Deathstrike.

Who's got more cool scenes? Or better yet who's scenes matter?

In general? Or to a Jackman/Wolverine fanboy?

Patrick Stewart’s scenes matter. Ian McKellen’s scenes matter. Famke Janssen’s scenes matter. Alan Cumming’s scenes matter. I could go on and on, but you’re response shows just how much regard you have for anyone or anything that isn’t attached to the hip of Hugh Jackman.

It’s funny that you mention Roger Ebert, as though his opinion is the only one that matters, because in his personal review, he mentions everyone except for Wolverine. In his Ebert and Roeper review, he especially likes Janssen, and in his personal review he goes out of his way to note Janssen, McKellen, and Ashmore’s scenes… but there’s zero mention of Wolverine.

And we both know which character is getting his own spinoff movie.

It sure as hell isn't Nightcrawler.

Magneto? X-Men: First Class? See the second half of my first comment... although I do find it funny that, while I'm listening to Ebert and Roeper's review, they discuss how they would like to see spin-offs involving Storm, the intriguing Mystique, and Rogue (no mention of Wolverine).

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030502/REVIEWS/305020306/1023

http://tvplex.go.com/buenavista/ebertandroeper/030505.html

 

[Theweepeople]

That's not even remotely true. Given your love for Jackman, perhaps you couldn't wait to see him on-screen again, but there are plenty of others who will disagree with you, especially in regards to comparing Jackman's Wolverine with Ledger's Joker. Wolverine doesn't have the best scenes of X2. Moreover, Wolverine isn't even the show-stopper of X2, Nightcrawler is.

I thought Wolverine's best action scenes came in X1 when he fought Mystique. His scenes in X2 at the mansion were okay but, too toned down for my tastes for a character with his abilities. His scenes with Deastrike were better but, some of the cable work was laughable during those scenes.

I didn't like a single action scene of Wolverine in X3. The scenes of him at Jean's house basically consisted of him getting his butt kicked by Juggernaut. He didn't get a single punch in against a character that's supposed to be much slower than him. His scenes in the forest against spike man were arguably the cheesiest Wolverine action scenes I've ever scene. I didn't care for Wolverine's action scenes during the final battle at Alcatraz either. All we got to see him do was stab a few unknown mutants, got thrown at Magneto by Collosus, and stab Jean. None of those scenes got me excited.

The character that had the most dynamic action scene of the whole series was Nightcrawler. It's a shame the character didn't do much after that because his character had a lot more potential. I also, though Magneto's jail break scene and Collosus one scene in X2 were more compelling visually than any action scene Wolverine was involved with during the same film.

 

[SNIKT1950]

No. I mean the guy with the great opening scene that automatically became one of the most memorable in the entire genre… and from a character that the Hollywood machine doesn’t shove down the throats of audiences in an attempt to make up their minds for them.

You shouldn't watch Wolverine.

Your comment on "The Hollywood Machine" is sad, because it shows how in your head "things are right" and those of us that enjoy Hugh Jackman - the STAR of this franchise "are wrong".

I'm just glad Wolverine is coming regardless of your opinion.

*I didn't mean Palermo, I meant Ralph Winter.

 

[BMM]

You shouldn't watch Wolverine.

Why? I've been looking forward to this movie. Just because I'm open to thinking that other characters matter doesn't diminish my enjoyment of Wolverine and it doesn't mean I shouldn't see this movie.

Your comment on "The Hollywood Machine" is sad, because it shows how in your head "things are right" and those of us that enjoy Hugh Jackman - the STAR of this franchise "are wrong".

Spare me the “us vs. them” nonsense. I never said that, but you seem to have a problem with putting words into other people’s mouths.

I'm just glad Wolverine is coming regardless of your opinion.

...and I'm glad this X-Men movie and others are coming regardless of yours.

 

[Theweepeople]

I think Wolverine got the most screen time in the X-Men series due to budget restrictions. Singer's budget for X1(75mil) and X2(110mil) were barerly sufficient enough for him to make decent X-Men films. With the exception of Professor Xavier Wolverine is the easiest character to show visually in an action sequence. It's a lot harder to do the special effects of a character that fires laser beams from his eyes, one that flies and shoots lightening bolts, one that turns into metal, one that fires ice, and one that teleports.

 

[SNIKT1950]

I think Wolverine got the most screen time in the X-Men series due to budget restrictions. Singer's budget for X1(75mil) and X2(110mil) were barerly sufficient enough for him to make decent X-Men films. With the exception of Professor Xavier Wolverine is the easiest character to show visually in an action sequence. It's a lot harder to do the special effects of a character that fires laser beams from his eyes, one that flies and shoots lightening bolts, one that turns into metal, one that fires ice, and one that teleports.

WOW.

"Wolverine got the most screentime because it cost less."

To read that is shocking.

I HAD to respond to it because its so nonsensical I just couldnt turn away.

What's even more shocking is to hear people continue to believe Singer's films were flawed and the theory that "They could have worked without Wolverine and above all without Jackman."

This is why Hollywood execs can't listen to the fans.

 

[BMM]

I think Wolverine got the most screen time in the X-Men series due to budget restrictions. Singer's budget for X1(75mil) and X2(110mil) were barerly sufficient enough for him to make decent X-Men films. With the exception of Professor Xavier Wolverine is the easiest character to show visually in an action sequence. It's a lot harder to do the special effects of a character that fires laser beams from his eyes, one that flies and shoots lightening bolts, one that turns into metal, one that fires ice, and one that teleports.

That could have entered part of their rationale when initially choosing Wolverine as a focus (and there is similar discussion about why characters like Batman are more financially viable as opposed to their counterparts like Superman), but I think, thanks to individuals like Avi Arad, Fox followed Marvel's previous framework more than anything.