The Official Writer & Storyline Thread

The franchise is being REBOOTED. The president of WB said so. Everything that Singer and Routh did is being SCRAPPED. GONE. FOREVER.

Routh is OFF.
Singer is OFF.

WB is doing a completely fresh start. a new beginning. REBOOT.
 
that's why i corrected myself and said Prequel/Reboot. the point is to CONNECT the two movies, that way we wouldnt just throw SR away in the trash. let the Donner films be their own movies like Burton's Batman.
You're trying to have both things (prequel/reboot) at once. I've made clear why connecting to SR is problematic for people. I've also made clear that the changes you're proposing make a prequel pretty pointless when it contradicts many elements in SR.

The very fact that you're rewriting the history set forth in SR, basically means you're diverging into an entirely new timeline with a new universe. That's the principal of a reboot. You don't need to bring the same cast for that. That muddles things up.
 
Donnor>Reboot...Since Superman has been around long enough to warrant multiple interpretation of the material, I don't see the harm in doing a reboot.

But the stars were in absolute alignment for "Superman: The Movie" in a way that will never happen again. Mario Puzo, Geoffrey Unsworth, John Barry, John Williams...and of course Brando, Hackman, Mank, Donner...

And to top it all off, Christopher Reeve was and still remains one of the most brilliant bits of casting in film history.

The Reboot wil never match the majesty of that first film...ever.

CFE
 
Donnor>Reboot...Since Superman has been around long enough to warrant multiple interpretation of the material, I don't see the harm in doing a reboot.

But the stars were in absolute alignment for "Superman: The Movie" in a way that will never happen again. Mario Puzo, Geoffrey Unsworth, John Barry, John Williams...and of course Brando, Hackman, Mank, Donner...

And to top it all off, Christopher Reeve was and still remains one of the most brilliant bits of casting in film history.

The Reboot wil never match the majesty of that first film...ever.

CFE

Disagree. Solely depends on who will be behind the engine of the reboot. If the correct director, writer, cinematographer, cast, FX company, and etc. get behind it, it can not only touch the majesty of the first film, but go beyond it.
 
Donnor>Reboot...Since Superman has been around long enough to warrant multiple interpretation of the material, I don't see the harm in doing a reboot.

But the stars were in absolute alignment for "Superman: The Movie" in a way that will never happen again. Mario Puzo, Geoffrey Unsworth, John Barry, John Williams...and of course Brando, Hackman, Mank, Donner...

And to top it all off, Christopher Reeve was and still remains one of the most brilliant bits of casting in film history.

The Reboot wil never match the majesty of that first film...ever.

CFE

OH FOR GOD SAKES.......

Donner's movie is not the holy grail that it is made out to be. It is not going to be as hard to top as some make it out to be. Reeve was great, Reeve made the film, but when you take Chris Reeve performance out, it drops major points.

Lex sucked, Lois sucked, Crystal ball Krypton sucked, the Kents were treated like backwood rednecks, Clark can be done better and not portrayed as a doofus, etc etc.
 
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Agreed. A modern Superman film can be leagues beyond what Donner's film provided.
 
Stop acting like a child NotFadeAway. I mean really, there is no need for the namecalling in this situation. I'm with you on your SR dislike but there is a better way too express your feelings.

I'm calling you out because you are better than this. Way better.
 
It is not going to be as hard to top as some make it out to be.

Really...the sequels didn't do it, "Returns" didn't do it...And thanks to jaded audiences and the idea of a 'Comic Book Movie' being commonplace, I seriously doubt anything else will do it as far as Superman is concerned.

Reeve was great, Reeve made the film, but when you take Chris Reeve performance out, it drops major points.

Agreed, but Chris' performance is strongly supported by all the technical aspects of the film.

"Superman: The Movie" was done in a time where movie-making ment so much more. It was made when Hollywood wasn't in a state of rehashing like it is now; when filmmaking was still in a sense of golden age, old hollywood appeal. John Williams is arguably (barely) the greatest American composer of the past 30 years, Geoffrey Unsworth was one of the greatest cinematographers prior to his passing, and so on and so forth.

Lex sucked, Lois sucked, Crystal ball Krypton sucked, the Kents were treated like backwood rednecks, Clark can be done better and not portrayed as a doofus, etc etc.

You're not so much debating with this list of faults...more like whining. But let's see:

1: While I prefer the 'Lexcorp' corporate Luthor, Hackman's depiction was anything but horrible. A little goofy, but was still rather evil (throwing a cop in front of an approaching train, fooling Superman with a plot to poison half of the cities citizens, attempting to blow California clear in two.)
2: Lois was nearly as pitch perfect as Superman in depiction. I'm not that big a fan of Margot Kidder visually, but she also didn't 'suck' as you articulately put.
3: The 'Crystal' motif was unique for the time...and thanks to 30 years of no one else coming up with anything nearly as unique and perfect (honestly, can you think of the Fortress of Solitude lookng any other way?), it's become iconic.
4: What the hell? Upload the 'Smallville' portion of the first film on Youtube and point out to me when Glenn Ford and Phyllis Thaxter acted like 'rednecks.'
5: Clark acting like a doofus was just that...an act. Common knowledge that Kal-El does this in order to seperate Clark from Superman as much as he can.

------------------

OH FOR GOD SAKES.......

Donner's movie is not the holy grail that it is made out to be.

Thanks to 30 years of seasoning, 13 weeks at number one upon release, a massive-for-the-time $300 million domestic draw, Oscar Wins (not just nominations), continuously being referenced in both the comics and other media (Superman: Doomsday. "Smallville") and the fact that after a ridiculously long development process in which film producers tried everything they could to bring Superman back...the first pitch to make it through was a film that's still connected to Donner.

That original film has had more impact on not just Comic Book Adaptations...but the Film Industry in general. It stands shoulder to shoulder with the original Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Jaws, The Exorcist and The Godfather in being this milestone motion picture that had all of the elements in place and hit the right note at the right time.

When a new Superman film comes out, reboot or otherwise, it won't have that same impact...and it certainly won't surpass that impact.

For instance...

the visual effects may look better...but that just makes me think of how much more impressive "Superman: The Movie" was out of the fact that its visual effects, given it being produced in 1977, still hold up fairly well, have a tangible honesty to them and were first employed for that film.

Donner's film was revolutionary for the time...the reboot, no matter how great it could potentially be in quality, will just be seen as another in a long string of CB films.

THAT's the difference.

CFE
 
....sounds like lack of imagination/faith in the potential for a new Superman film for the modern age. The only thing hampering it now is SR muddling things up. It won't really be considered "Superman returning to cinema", as he already did it in Singer's film. To a mundane reaction.
 
I guess what CFE is saying is that the reboot won't have the same impact that STM had in it's time, for obvious reasons. Kind of like B89/BB.

I do think STM can be surpassed, though. Quality-wise.
 
I think we should forget about surpassing Donner... those films have come and gone. With SR it was merely homage to Donner... nothing more. It's time for a new director to take the helm and move on. Just like Nolan did. That doesn't mean you have to do a Superman Begins movie. Just do a Superman movie with a new vision and direction.
 
Please, God, no prequels to Superman Returns. :dry: :csad:
 
i've considered the prequel idea myself, and i think its a fantastic option. especially if routh is staying on board.
 
Really...the sequels didn't do it, "Returns" didn't do it...And thanks to jaded audiences and the idea of a 'Comic Book Movie' being commonplace, I seriously doubt anything else will do it as far as Superman is concerned.



Agreed, but Chris' performance is strongly supported by all the technical aspects of the film.

"Superman: The Movie" was done in a time where movie-making ment so much more. It was made when Hollywood wasn't in a state of rehashing like it is now; when filmmaking was still in a sense of golden age, old hollywood appeal. John Williams is arguably (barely) the greatest American composer of the past 30 years, Geoffrey Unsworth was one of the greatest cinematographers prior to his passing, and so on and so forth.



You're not so much debating with this list of faults...more like whining. But let's see:

1: While I prefer the 'Lexcorp' corporate Luthor, Hackman's depiction was anything but horrible. A little goofy, but was still rather evil (throwing a cop in front of an approaching train, fooling Superman with a plot to poison half of the cities citizens, attempting to blow California clear in two.)
2: Lois was nearly as pitch perfect as Superman in depiction. I'm not that big a fan of Margot Kidder visually, but she also didn't 'suck' as you articulately put.
3: The 'Crystal' motif was unique for the time...and thanks to 30 years of no one else coming up with anything nearly as unique and perfect (honestly, can you think of the Fortress of Solitude lookng any other way?), it's become iconic.
4: What the hell? Upload the 'Smallville' portion of the first film on Youtube and point out to me when Glenn Ford and Phyllis Thaxter acted like 'rednecks.'
5: Clark acting like a doofus was just that...an act. Common knowledge that Kal-El does this in order to seperate Clark from Superman as much as he can.

------------------



Thanks to 30 years of seasoning, 13 weeks at number one upon release, a massive-for-the-time $300 million domestic draw, Oscar Wins (not just nominations), continuously being referenced in both the comics and other media (Superman: Doomsday. "Smallville") and the fact that after a ridiculously long development process in which film producers tried everything they could to bring Superman back...the first pitch to make it through was a film that's still connected to Donner.

That original film has had more impact on not just Comic Book Adaptations...but the Film Industry in general. It stands shoulder to shoulder with the original Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Jaws, The Exorcist and The Godfather in being this milestone motion picture that had all of the elements in place and hit the right note at the right time.

When a new Superman film comes out, reboot or otherwise, it won't have that same impact...and it certainly won't surpass that impact.

For instance...

the visual effects may look better...but that just makes me think of how much more impressive "Superman: The Movie" was out of the fact that its visual effects, given it being produced in 1977, still hold up fairly well, have a tangible honesty to them and were first employed for that film.

Donner's film was revolutionary for the time...the reboot, no matter how great it could potentially be in quality, will just be seen as another in a long string of CB films.

THAT's the difference.

CFE

Well, have you ever considered that the sequels, and Returns, were not that good. Hate to break it to you, but Zod was the epitomy of cheesy. Because they were not. And TDK did just fine in terms of being a comic book movie, if the new Superman movie is worthy, it will get respect. More respect than ever before. IF it is a good film.

1) Dustin Hoffman killed people in "Hook". That does not make him a great villian....yeah!

2) Margot Kidder's Lois Lane was a perfect. A perfect trend setter. She set the trend that all heroine's in Superhero flicks are downright unlikable and a weak link in most of the films. Margot Kidder was a disgusting hag, and her Lois was one of the most unlikable cinematic characters of all time. She would lose a nomination quicker than Hillary Clinton.

3) The Crystal Krypton was unique at the time. That does not make it unique now. That makes it unique 30 years ago. Lets just go with the TAS version of Krypton, shall we. Put your crystals away.

4) I guess backwood was the wrong term to use. Although being a bigger part of Clark's life than Jor-El, the Kents were lowered to mild-cameo status in the movie, and barely touched upon. Thats just wrong to me, and it's wrong to the characters. They were barely seen in any of the movies. They were blown off, kicked to the curb, although it is Jor-El who talks through a computer.

At the end of the day, it does not stand shoulder to shoulder with Star Wars, Indiana Jones, etc etc. You might want it to, and in your head it might, but that does not make it so. Sorry friend. But this new film, it can stand should to should with TDK. And that is an achievement. If done and done correctly, ya know, the opposite of Returns, it will not be in the line of CB films.
 
"TDK" was a creature in and of itself and unlike any other comic book adaptation.

That film and its success can, and most likely will, open the door for other properties and adaptations.

But to think that comic book films will now and forever be on the same level of quality and financial success as "TDK" is naive on your part.

No other CB film is going to achieve that for a long time, if ever.

CFE
 
"TDK" was a creature in and of itself and unlike any other comic book adaptation.

That film and its success can, and most likely will, open the door for other properties and adaptations.

But to think that comic book films will now and forever be on the same level of quality and financial success as "TDK" is naive on your part.

No other CB film is going to achieve that for a long time, if ever.

CFE
 
The franchise is being REBOOTED. The president of WB said so. Everything that Singer and Routh did is being SCRAPPED. GONE. FOREVER.

Routh is OFF.
Singer is OFF.

WB is doing a completely fresh start. a new beginning. REBOOT.

:whatever:

Robinov clearly said reintroduce.

He didn't say REBOOT!!!
 
Come on, Prime, you can tell bootspark has no use for logic.
 
Simply put, there are many that are unsupportive or have a disinterest in the SR universe. Sure, you could make a prequel that would fix some things, but the very fact that SR would be attached to this continuity is a turn-off to those that did not love the movie.

For those that desire a complete reboot, i.e. a fresh take on the franchise, a SR-prequel would immediately be a problem for them from the get-go. Chief complaints being:

Casting
Characterization
Donner-elements

These would all have to be carried over from Singer's film if it is to go along with SR. These are things that can't be fixed.




-a prequel origin that reboots the franchise, while retaining Routh would :

1)sever the donner franchise, and effectively eliminate them from the continutity

2)allow for characterization to be realigned, as well as allowing the SR characterizations to be elaborated on, so that they make more sense, and also save us fans some hate (mentioned before, making Jason a 'nuclearman' clone implanted in Lois through a scientific rape by Luthor would solve the most prominant problem)

3)Casting was fine: the problem was in characterization. The story provided no opportunity for any of the actors in the movie to actually act. Casting was fine, even Lois is cast well, it's the direction that was given to said actors that was a failure, this would fall under characterization.



this all being said, I'd prefer a full reboot: which means no routh, no welling (that wouldn't be a reboot would it), start totally fresh,,, but I'll be 40 by the time that happens. So I can deal with a well crafted prequel that would serve to solve all the problematic issues that SR coupled with the vague history bring up. This prequel would destroy the vague history concept (thank goodness) and replace the donner franchise with a new origin prequel which can act as a reboot, if properly crafted to reintroduce the character

I also mentioned this somewhere else: prequels don't have to be bad, just because the Star Wars prequels were bad. The idea is sound, but prequels have yet to be properly excecuted.
 
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now that I've had some time to articulate my thoughts on the concept, I have some more comment. But don't let this idea make anyone think that I want a prequel. I'd much rather have something else.

that being said, the idea of a prequel re origin could work, for the above reasons. But when I look at SR, the problems are easily solvable. Most of the problem lay in the fact that the story was just meh. Anyhow, if one decides that the Donner Franchise is now excluded from the universe, then there are only a short number of things that need to be explained from the 'vague history' that must now be defined in this prequel:

1)Lois knows superman's powers and weakness's, and that he's from krypton
2)Lex knows the location of the Fortress of Solitude, and prior to that was shaggin gertrude, and before that, in and out of court for some 'unknown' crime.
3)There was some love affair between Superman and Lois
4)Lois ended up pregnant with a superbaby, how is still undefined.

Now given these points, and the way I've layed them out, it seems perfectly plausible that a prequel origin that replaces the hated 'vague history' (arguably the root of the whole problem) can be written. So in order, I'll respond with solutions to the above point that if handled correctly in a movie, I think could work out well.

1)no duh, this is easily explainable

2)I think Spacey as Lex is undeniably a good fit. The problem is how Lex 'is' in SR. The fact that he knows where the Fortress is, is an irrelevant detail that could be explained through the central narrative. How Lex 'is' is the real concern. But I think it would be perfectly plausible if the Spacey Lex Luthor was actually the powerful evil businessman we'd like him to be. I think that this all powerful corrupt capatilist Luthor could also be driven 'insane' (not fully, but a little off balanced) by the interference of an alien superbeing. Resulting in SR's Luthor being a little bit wacko.

3)another no duh, easily plagarized from a zillion superman references

4)Lois is preggers: might be superman's 'offspring' but it has not been defined that it is superman's own 'baby'. If Bizarro be the supervillain (controlled by evil capatilist Luthor of course) in the origin prequel, Lois being preggers could very well fit. I mentioned this before, but I like the idea> if Lex being the evil genius that he is, designed Bizarro, but realized he could not be controlled, had a 'secondary project' that would create a more stable clone, but it had to be carried to term by a surrogate mother: Lois meddles, Lois ends up the subject of Lex's attempt to breed a more stable bizarro: Jason, superman's offspring, yet not his baby.

I'm beginning to think this could work. Throw a pre metallo John Corben, some battlesuits, and a bizarro for the climax of the movie, Superman's failure to save Lois from being impregnated/raped (which she wouldn't tell him about), and his departure to krypton after saving the city, and destorying Luthor's public image could work well.






but, in the end, the movie I would advocate would be a World's Finest.
 
With the recent news that Routh is being considered for the next Superman movie, there's been speculation that the next Superman movie will be a reboot/sequel hyrid in the fashion of TIH (I suspect more news on this front after sales of TIH DVD come in). So, assuming WB is inspired by TIH, we can expect a Superman movie that will have some quick references to Superman's origins but the goal will be that it can ultimately be viewed alongside previous Superman films; at the very least, at least alongside SR. My question is if they do this (and for the record I would love to see it done because I liked SR and don't want another origin) what issues will present themselves and how will they be dealt with? The only real problem I see is Jason. Richard can be written out leaving the whole Superman/Lois angle open and nothing's standing in the way of Lex using his private fortune to get into whatever kind of mischief he wants, either in the White House or at the head of LexCorp. The issue still remains tho, what do we do with Jason? I hate to phrase the question like that and jump on the "hating Jason" pile-on because I think they could have done interesting things with him but if I had to bet on it, I'd say he won't be in the next movie so any thoughts?
 
In my opinion, even if Warner Bros. reboots a la The Incredible Hulk, I don't think it can be connected in any way to Richard or Jason, otherwise it really isn't a reboot--it's a sequel.
 
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With the recent news that Routh is being considered for the next Superman movie, there's been speculation that the next Superman movie will be a reboot/sequel hyrid in the fashion of TIH (I suspect more news on this front after sales of TIH DVD come in). So, assuming WB is inspired by TIH, we can expect a Superman movie that will have some quick references to Superman's origins but the goal will be that it can ultimately be viewed alongside previous Superman films; at the very least, at least alongside SR. My question is if they do this (and for the record I would love to see it done because I liked SR and don't want another origin) what issues will present themselves and how will they be dealt with? The only real problem I see is Jason. Richard can be written out leaving the whole Superman/Lois angle open and nothing's standing in the way of Lex using his private fortune to get into whatever kind of mischief he wants, either in the White House or at the head of LexCorp. The issue still remains tho, what do we do with Jason? I hate to phrase the question like that and jump on the "hating Jason" pile-on because I think they could have done interesting things with him but if I had to bet on it, I'd say he won't be in the next movie so any thoughts?
you are aware that TIH is a 100% reboot?
 
I'm aware that some people consider it 100% a reboot but are you aware that the movie also has elements to it that connect it directly to Hulk '03? Did u see Ang Lee's Hulk? The movie ends with Banner hiding out in South America. Hulk '03 also establishes the relationship between Bruce and Betty, not to mention General Ross. TIH glazes over the background on these characters because everyone knows it from Hulk '03. Aside from adding the super soldier serum into Hulk's background in preparation for Captain America and the upcoming Avengers movie, TIH works as a sequel.
 

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