The Official Writer & Storyline Thread

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I'm aware that some people consider it 100% a reboot but are you aware that the movie also has elements to it that connect it directly to Hulk '03? Did u see Ang Lee's Hulk? The movie ends with Banner hiding out in South America. Hulk '03 also establishes the relationship between Bruce and Betty, not to mention General Ross. TIH glazes over the background on these characters because everyone knows it from Hulk '03. Aside from adding the super soldier serum into Hulk's background in preparation for Captain America and the upcoming Avengers movie, TIH works as a sequel.

TIH doesnt work as a sequel because too many things are done differently. Anyone who considers TIH as a sequel hasnt been paying enough attention to either movie.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I'm all for the reboot, but I just hope they don't dumb it down like they did with the HULK. Say what you want about Singer, but he gave Superman some depth. I'm all for increasing the action but let's have something a little more than a brawl between super powered beings please...TIH did not make much more money than Ang Lee's...we can have a movie with great depth and a lot of action...just ask Peter Jackson!

Great post. Sums up my feeling perfectly.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I dont think Hulk was dumbed down I just think Ang Lee just tried to do too much with the character with his interpretation with the whole conflict with his father and stuff it just got way too far away from its source material and did not feel like a comic book movie.

You havent read a Hluk comic in a while then, Bruce Banner's childhood abuse by his Father which lead to repressed feelings and memories and an INTEGRAL part of the Hulk character. Basically without Bruce's traumatised childhood, you WOULDNT have The Hulk.

Ang Lee got that bit spot on.

 

[kalelkilla]

Deep, emotional, mature film making isn't Marvel's game... they have to go for the throat... put the young teenagers in the seats... if you are an audience member who gets old and moves on... so be it. Marvel will move on to the next generation. It's about a fun, entertaining, light-hearted film making. Characters like Spiderman, Hulk, Iron Man... there is only so much you can do there. With Superman you can try to make it deep... but Singer already failed miserably. Don't be suprised if WB waters down the material. That's a legitimate concern.

I totally agree with most of what you're saying, and I have the same concerns as you. Singer didn't fail miserably. He just didn't have any real action. Other than that, I think Singer's heart is in the perfect place for Superman. He knows that he has to put more action in the next one and he will. I think DC finally has the blueprint for their style of movies:TDK. They know what to do to create a great movie now. With the DC character's they have to be done DEAD seriously, or they don't work, other than Flash, there really isn't much room for light-hearted film making for the DC characters. I just didn't like the fact that Marvel thought that the audience wanted just two monsters hitting each other (which is cool, no doubt) without any emotional backing. Even with films like Daredevil and Iron Man, Marvel always chooses to stay away from the heavy stuff - which has worked great for them, but the quality of the movie itself is lacking. I just hope DC and the WB don't think that all we want is Superman to fight another Superbeing. That isn't having a lot of respect for Superman fans...

 

[Sam]

Takes TIH approach would be the WORST idear E.V.E.R.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I've only seen two good WB/DC comicbook movies TDK and Batman Begins so I completely disagree with some of the good folk on this page.

 

[HellHead]

I totally agree with most of what you're saying, and I have the same concerns as you. Singer didn't fail miserably. He just didn't have any real action. Other than that, I think Singer's heart is in the perfect place for Superman. He knows that he has to put more action in the next one and he will. I think DC finally has the blueprint for their style of movies:TDK. They know what to do to create a great movie now. With the DC character's they have to be done DEAD seriously, or they don't work, other than Flash, there really isn't much room for light-hearted film making for the DC characters. I just didn't like the fact that Marvel thought that the audience wanted just two monsters hitting each other (which is cool, no doubt) without any emotional backing. Even with films like Daredevil and Iron Man, Marvel always chooses to stay away from the heavy stuff - which has worked great for them, but the quality of the movie itself is lacking. I just hope DC and the WB don't think that all we want is Superman to fight another Superbeing. That isn't having a lot of respect for Superman fans...

+1

I'm still surprised the flack SR gets from people. I think it's right up there with BB & TDK. All of the complaints I've heard from friends adds up to them wanting a disposable POS like TIH. When you consider all the other garbage that came close to being the next Superman film during that twenty year gap, I think we lucked out incredibly with SR. As you said, it has heart, and that's painfully lacking in a lot of cinema.

 

[Double Down]

^ Well said.

 

[myway]

I totally agree with most of what you're saying, and I have the same concerns as you. Singer didn't fail miserably. He just didn't have any real action. Other than that, I think Singer's heart is in the perfect place for Superman. He knows that he has to put more action in the next one and he will. I think DC finally has the blueprint for their style of movies:TDK. They know what to do to create a great movie now. With the DC character's they have to be done DEAD seriously, or they don't work, other than Flash, there really isn't much room for light-hearted film making for the DC characters. I just didn't like the fact that Marvel thought that the audience wanted just two monsters hitting each other (which is cool, no doubt) without any emotional backing. Even with films like Daredevil and Iron Man, Marvel always chooses to stay away from the heavy stuff - which has worked great for them, but the quality of the movie itself is lacking. I just hope DC and the WB don't think that all we want is Superman to fight another Superbeing. That isn't having a lot of respect for Superman fans...

I couldn't agree more. SR had awesome characterization; Superman dealing with feeling alone, Lex dark and out for revenge, Lois moved on with life, great stuff. Haters are distracted by the lack of action and just pile-on.

 

[fabman]

Deep, emotional, mature film making isn't Marvel's game... they have to go for the throat... put the young teenagers in the seats... if you are an audience member who gets old and moves on... so be it. Marvel will move on to the next generation. It's about a fun, entertaining, light-hearted film making. Characters like Spiderman, Hulk, Iron Man... there is only so much you can do there. With Superman you can try to make it deep... but Singer already failed miserably. Don't be suprised if WB waters down the material. That's a legitimate concern.

You know, I'm not talking about deep and emotional either, just making something that isn't your cookie-cutter "comic book movie". Gremlins isn't deep and emotional, yet I'd take that over what Marvel's done this year anytime.

They can make something entertaining without it to be cookie-cutter! Unfortunately this year's Hulk has become one of the best examples for "cookie-cutter comic book filmmaking".

It's kinda becoming like the 1990's, with all those Die Hard copycats being released. Okay, Speed was fun, but I could've done without Passenger 47, Seagal's and Van Damme's rip-offs. Same applies to films based on comics.

It's not like because of The Dark Knight now every movie has to be a tension-filled action thriller. Because it's not like that. But they can't make those flicks according to a scheme, either!

 

[jmc]

I totally agree with most of what you're saying, and I have the same concerns as you. Singer didn't fail miserably. He just didn't have any real action. Other than that, I think Singer's heart is in the perfect place for Superman. He knows that he has to put more action in the next one and he will. I think DC finally has the blueprint for their style of movies:TDK. They know what to do to create a great movie now. With the DC character's they have to be done DEAD seriously, or they don't work, other than Flash, there really isn't much room for light-hearted film making for the DC characters. I just didn't like the fact that Marvel thought that the audience wanted just two monsters hitting each other (which is cool, no doubt) without any emotional backing. Even with films like Daredevil and Iron Man, Marvel always chooses to stay away from the heavy stuff - which has worked great for them, but the quality of the movie itself is lacking. I just hope DC and the WB don't think that all we want is Superman to fight another Superbeing. That isn't having a lot of respect for Superman fans...

The last thing WB need to do is follow Marvels lead, each DC character needs to be treated as it's own character, with varying journeys, styles, direction, all done with a mature tone, films that treat the audience like adults. Marvel are doing well now, they've had one hit and one moderate success, but there's very little in variation and I'm betting there won't be much in future films, they can't afford to, yet if they continue to make the same type of film with different costumed characters it could become stale very quickly. WB can not fall into that trap, WB have a golden opportunity right now to be the makers of quality comic adaptations, they've got 4 solid characters up their sleeve each dieing to have their own unique story told to millions, TDK was the starting point, hopefully they can follow it up with films of near or equal quality.

 

[sdc10]

You havent read a Hluk comic in a while then, Bruce Banner's childhood abuse by his Father which lead to repressed feelings and memories and an INTEGRAL part of the Hulk character. Basically without Bruce's traumatised childhood, you WOULDNT have The Hulk.

Ang Lee got that bit spot on.

I was just saying that I think Ang took that piece of information and just tried to use it too much, I mean making Bruces' dad the main villain in the film and given him powers was just way too much in my opinion.

 

[FaT_tONle]

I totally agree with most of what you're saying, and I have the same concerns as you. Singer didn't fail miserably. He just didn't have any real action. Other than that, I think Singer's heart is in the perfect place for Superman. He knows that he has to put more action in the next one and he will. I think DC finally has the blueprint for their style of movies:TDK. They know what to do to create a great movie now. With the DC character's they have to be done DEAD seriously, or they don't work, other than Flash, there really isn't much room for light-hearted film making for the DC characters. I just didn't like the fact that Marvel thought that the audience wanted just two monsters hitting each other (which is cool, no doubt) without any emotional backing. Even with films like Daredevil and Iron Man, Marvel always chooses to stay away from the heavy stuff - which has worked great for them, but the quality of the movie itself is lacking. I just hope DC and the WB don't think that all we want is Superman to fight another Superbeing. That isn't having a lot of respect for Superman fans...

It is highly unlikely Singer will be back... and his team did not do a great job with the story in SR either... Lois was miscasted... and the kid. The movie was flawed. But that's all old news so forget about SR. I agree that TIH tried to sell the movie just based on the visuals... you didn't really care about the characters. It was a pure Marvel **** up. I don't want to hear about the Ang Lee factor... TIH for me was on par with the X-3's and FF's of the world. It just wasn't that good a film. Superman won't get caught up in that though because I think WB has learned their lesson. I am not worried about getting a film similar to the Marvel scheme.

 

[Anita18]

There is no debate when the Marvel Studios President of Production, the director, and the main star of the movie have all come out and said that TIH is in NO way connected to Hulk '03.

That may be so, but TIH doesn't have obviously glaring contradictions from Hulk 03. Bruce Banner's father doesn't show up suddenly alive, for instance. The next Superman movie doesn't have that luxury, if they want to ret-con Jason.

One of the best compliments of TDK was by Richard Roeper, and he said that TDK, "was a great crime drama, that just so happened to be in a comic book universe." I love comic books, don't get me wrong, but for the mass audiences, I think the approach for Superman should be to make a great sci-fi/fantasy film first a foremost, that just so happens to be based on comic books...and the greatest Superhero of all time...in other words I don't want Superman to be just another "comic book movie" it has to be MORE and has the best potential to be much much more.

I don't believe a comic book movie needs to be as serious and genre-straddling as TDK for mass audiences to enjoy it. Comic book movies have been making money just as they are for a long time. What TDK did was show that a film taking place in a comic book universe didn't HAVE to follow the predictable comic book movie formula.

Its astounding box office performance can be attributed to a lot of things. It truly was a perfect storm. But it doesn't mean that your typical comic book movie is dead. It's just that since the movies usually cost so much to produce relative to other films, they need to make more money at the box office to recoup their budget.

I do think it would be great if Superman had a serious, thought-provoking film of his own, though.

I totally agree with most of what you're saying, and I have the same concerns as you. Singer didn't fail miserably. He just didn't have any real action. Other than that, I think Singer's heart is in the perfect place for Superman. He knows that he has to put more action in the next one and he will. I think DC finally has the blueprint for their style of movies: TDK. They know what to do to create a great movie now. With the DC character's they have to be done DEAD seriously, or they don't work, other than Flash, there really isn't much room for light-hearted film making for the DC characters. I just didn't like the fact that Marvel thought that the audience wanted just two monsters hitting each other (which is cool, no doubt) without any emotional backing. Even with films like Daredevil and Iron Man, Marvel always chooses to stay away from the heavy stuff - which has worked great for them, but the quality of the movie itself is lacking. I just hope DC and the WB don't think that all we want is Superman to fight another Superbeing. That isn't having a lot of respect for Superman fans...

I thought Iron Man was very good, but what kept it from being great was the predictable super-fight at the end and the "I always wanted to kill you" monologue by the villain. I don't think being light hurt it in any way - it was the fact it fell back into formula, and that disappointed me.

I don't believe WB can just look to TDK and say, "This is how we're going to do the rest of our comic book movies." None of the characters as portrayed in BB or TDK are super-powered. It bends what's possible, but doesn't take it into true fantasy. That's why they could ground it as a crime drama/thriller. There's a limit to what the characters know and can physically do. The audience knows that, and that's why the tension is so palpable. It also helps that they weren't afraid to really push the boundaries of what the Joker could do. He was downright ruthless.

In contrast, Superman IS fantasy. He can physically do a lot of things that Batman cannot. They'd have to rewrite their "serious" approach for Superman, they can't just copy and paste from TDK. I think WB would be better off looking at LOTR and that kind of epic fantasy.

 

[stargazer]

One of the best compliments of TDK was by Richard Roeper, and he said that TDK, "was a great crime drama, that just so happened to be in a comic book universe." I love comic books, don't get me wrong, but for the mass audiences, I think the approach for Superman should be to make a great sci-fi/fantasy film first a foremost, that just so happens to be based on comic books...and the greatest Superhero of all time...in other words I don't want Superman to be just another "comic book movie" it has to be MORE and has the best potential to be much much more.

Agreed. And that's why I LOVE SR so much becuase it gave us a mythic, epic and classic Superman. SR also has real depth and emotion, imo, it only needed more action, not for me, personally, but for a lot of people it did obviously.

I'm all for the reboot, but I just hope they don't dumb it down like they did with the HULK. Say what you want about Singer, but he gave Superman some depth. I'm all for increasing the action but let's have something a little more than a brawl between super powered beings please...TIH did not make much more money than Ang Lee's...we can have a movie with great depth and a lot of action...just ask Peter Jackson!

Great post. But I'm NOT up for a reboot, I hate the idea. I can't help but feel that a Superman reboot will be modern in all the negative ways. All flash and no substance, rock-influenced soundtrack, cliched character development, obligatory romantic subtext that doesn't go anywhere kind of dreck. A lot of movies today suck, and I think everyone can agree that a lot of the ideas we heard to reboot Superman before Singer came on board were really bad, so I can't really get mad at SR for saying the past had better ideas. I sure wish more straight-up remakes and resurrected franchise movies thought that.

But I can live with a reboot that respects the source material IF and ONLY if Routh returns as Superman, otherwise, no thanks; I will always have STM, S2 and SR to watch. And according to the Empire's magazine review on SR, the reviewer compared SR to the LOTR saga, and I agree. SR was just the beginning of a bigger story.

I totally agree with most of what you're saying, and I have the same concerns as you. Singer didn't fail miserably. He just didn't have any real action. Other than that, I think Singer's heart is in the perfect place for Superman. He knows that he has to put more action in the next one and he will. I think DC finally has the blueprint for their style of movies:TDK. They know what to do to create a great movie now. With the DC character's they have to be done DEAD seriously, or they don't work, other than Flash, there really isn't much room for light-hearted film making for the DC characters. I just didn't like the fact that Marvel thought that the audience wanted just two monsters hitting each other (which is cool, no doubt) without any emotional backing. Even with films like Daredevil and Iron Man, Marvel always chooses to stay away from the heavy stuff - which has worked great for them, but the quality of the movie itself is lacking. I just hope DC and the WB don't think that all we want is Superman to fight another Superbeing. That isn't having a lot of respect for Superman fans...

SR DID have some action, come on. But not enough to satisfy some audiences, I guess. The truth is that some people just wanted to see Superman fighting and punching someone; they don't really care about the story or depth much, imo. And I agree, Singer DIDN'T fail miserably, at all; SR got very good reviews, and a lot of people liked it, including me.

+1

I'm still surprised the flack SR gets from people. I think it's right up there with BB & TDK. All of the complaints I've heard from friends adds up to them wanting a disposable POS like TIH. When you consider all the other garbage that came close to being the next Superman film during that twenty year gap, I think we lucked out incredibly with SR. As you said, it has heart, and that's painfully lacking in a lot of cinema.

GREAT POST. I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[stargazer]

In contrast, Superman IS fantasy. He can physically do a lot of things that Batman cannot. They'd have to rewrite their "serious" approach for Superman, they can't just copy and paste from TDK. I think WB would be better off looking at LOTR and that kind of epic fantasy.

Agreed.

 

[kalelkilla]

Agreed.

Agreed as well, I just think with a reboot, they can have the opportunity ground some stuff in the Superman mythos in some sort of scientific reality...as best they could with the material...the only real fantasy in the Superman world is...Superman. Otherwise, he lives in the real world...there is so much going on around us today in the world...if Superman were real, he would have plenty to do without having to punch out a Doomsday, Brainiac, or Darkseid...although that's what we want to see, no doubt...I mean I think Lex should be a secondary villain, but what makes more sense of a plot than to have Lex(the billionaire businessman, not the real estate agent), fund real terrorists with money and give them some sort of Alien technology(from Brainiac, or whoever)...have Lex and the high-tech terrorists...try to do what terrorists do...and Superman has to stop them all in a world wide fight for humanity...which ultimately leads to him to whoever gave the technology to the terrorists (i.e. Luthor and Brainiac or Darkseid...) Superman beats the hell out of them in a fight around the world...flies into space and winks at the camera...roll credits...it can be fantasy but relate to the world today...idk JMHO...also, although I thought most of SR was pretty boring, they did set up some possible great stuff...what a better way to get our "angry god" than to kill Jason? It can still be a reboot/sequel...you can take Superman to some real dark places within himself...maybe he gives up on humanity for the first act...you can make the situations the hero is in dark without making the character dark...idk just some food for thought...

 

[myway]

At the risk of turning this into a Hulk thread, let me just post this for those who say that WB won't go for a re-quel ala TIH becuase TIH was ONLY meant to be seen as a standalone film:

http://www.collider.com/entertainment/interviews/article.asp/aid/8230/tcid/1

Kudos to Tomahawk for finding the article.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

As I've said in all threads like this...

I want some Krypton back story and sure, a little Smallville thrown into the mix.
I also want to see Clark starting out at the DP meeting Lois and the gang for the first time.

 

[Double Down]

At the risk of turning this into a Hulk thread, let me just post this for those who say that WB won't go for a re-quel ala TIH becuase TIH was ONLY meant to be seen as a standalone film:

http://www.collider.com/entertainment/interviews/article.asp/aid/8230/tcid/1

Kudos to Tomahawk for finding the article.

I hadn't seen that before. Thanks.

 

[Spider-Fan]

They may bring back the boring guy as Superman? Lame

I hope this is not true, and WB retools the whole thing.

 

[Spider-Fan]

+1

I'm still surprised the flack SR gets from people. I think it's right up there with BB & TDK. All of the complaints I've heard from friends adds up to them wanting a disposable POS like TIH. When you consider all the other garbage that came close to being the next Superman film during that twenty year gap, I think we lucked out incredibly with SR. As you said, it has heart, and that's painfully lacking in a lot of cinema.

You obviously have not read any of my SR complaints. My complaints with SR have little to do with Luthor being the villain (I thought that was fine). However, it is a dreadful movie. Routh was boring as Superman. Lois was unprofessional, and Bosworth miscast in the role. Spacey was a PHENOMINAL choice of Luthor, but so poorly used. His Lex is a poor merger of corporate Lex and S:TM Lex, and it doesn't work. The character lacks vision, and can't decide which way to go. They should have picked one way and gone with it. Also, the public forgives Superman far too easily. I mean, he reappears once, and everyone loves him? The public should have been divided on his return. He abandoned humanity. When he sacrifices himself at the end, that should have been when the public loves him again. Stronger image. We don't get this nice subplot, and focus on a boring/poor romance. And don't get me started on the kid. Also, Superman gives a shallow reason for leaving. He's reason is stated as two short blips of dialogue. It needed better explanation and expansion. The real reason Superman? Cause the script said so Oh, and they recycle every good Donner line in the movie

Poor movie as far as story and acting go. Sure, it was well lit and the plane sequence was nice, but otherwise, it sucked.

 

[stargazer]

.. the public forgives Superman far too easily. .

Where they supposed to be angry at him for leaving? Why? They don't own him; Earth had survived loooong before without him. I think that even a hero deserves a sabatical, plus he had a good and very compelling reason for leaving. And after the saving of the plane, I would welcome him with open arms as well.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Where they supposed to be angry at him for leaving? Why? They don't own him; Earth had survived loooong before without him. I think that even a hero deserves a sabatical, plus he had a good and very compelling reason for leaving. And after the saving of the plane, I would welcome him with open arms as well.

People get upset when Michael Jordan or Brett Favre retires and comes back, what makes you think it is any different for a person the public came to depend on in many ways?

Some public rejection is more realistic, and adds a good subplot (makes his "sacrifice" more meaningful, instead of bland like the rest of the movie).

 

[The Kid]

This was covered in superman 2 and would have been redundant, though there's a lot of redundancy already in superman returns. That didn't really affect the whole point of the movie getting across and I'm sure the kids loved it anyway. It's a good story for the kids.

As for the next movie being Incredible Hulked, I'm pretty sure it will be. And it'll suck just as much. No heart, no nothin, I tell ya.

And my sadistic side kind of enjoys seeing the Returns fans defend it similar to the smallville fans defending their show way back in the day from returns fans. It's ridiculously ironic. I hope others see the irony and just get along. Warts and all, it's supes baby.