The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 36

[Iceman]

That's an interesting question. I've been under the assumption (crossing fingers lol) that all the hard work will be done within three years. I think three years will be enough if the next manager is Guardiola or Klopp, but maybe not enough to get the squad robust enough for a novice like Giggs. They may be able to coax an additional year out of van Gaal but I'm not sure, the three year period dovetails nicely with Guardiola possibly being available, and I think he makes logical sense.

I would be quite concerned with how he adapts his style to the PL, his tendency for defensive naivety is something that'll get punished in the PL far more than in Spain or Germany. One of the main reasons I'd possibly be alright with Giggs is he's intensely familiar with the PL and he's probably learning a lot in terms of tactics and drills from van Gaal.

The PL is a different landscape nowadays. Liverpool's fortunes have given the others a bit more security for the moment but if they ever start playing like they did in the season they were pushing from the title, everyone's top 4 place comes into question again. I don't think anyone can guarantee that all the work will be done by the end of LVG's reign. For all the changes and good results, every so often you have a hopeless performance where you think how much progress have they really made after spending a quarter of a billion! But I certainly wish the guy luck and a few of the seeds planted now I think are on the money.

As for Guardiola I would also worry about whether his possession style will translate well to the PL. Far from a given for me. And Giggs has the perfect background and familiarity with the league as well as getting the best possible exposure, but unfortunately none of that actually means he will end up being any good! You need an X factor as a top level manager as it is an intensely competitive arena and I think that ends up being the single most important element beyond taking all the courses, passing all the exams and being totally versed in every possible stat, training method, tactical system known to man etc lol. Hopefully he has it but we won't know till he gets the top job.

 

[DeadPresident]

The FA have charged Diego Costa with violent conduct and Gabriel Paulista with improper conduct following the London derby.

 

[Iceman]

The FA have charged Diego Costa with violent conduct and Gabriel Paulista with improper conduct following the London derby.

Great news on the Costa issue. Hope he gets a decent ban, or is that too much to ask for? Glad Wenger kept his complaints to Costa only and didn't try to defend Gabriel getting sent off.

 

[DeadPresident]

The PL is a different landscape nowadays. Liverpool's fortunes have given the others a bit more security for the moment but if they ever start playing like they did in the season they were pushing from the title, everyone's top 4 place comes into question again. I don't think anyone can guarantee that all the work will be done by the end of LVG's reign. For all the changes and good results, every so often you have a hopeless performance where you think how much progress have they really made after spending a quarter of a billion! But I certainly wish the guy luck and a few of the seeds planted now I think are on the money.

As for Guardiola I would also worry about whether his possession style will translate well to the PL. Far from a given for me. And Giggs has the perfect background and familiarity with the league as well as getting the best possible exposure, but unfortunately none of that actually means he will end up being any good! You need an X factor as a top level manager as it is an intensely competitive arena and I think that ends up being the single most important element beyond taking all the courses, passing all the exams and being totally versed in every possible stat, training method, tactical system known to man etc lol. Hopefully he has it but we won't know till he gets the top job.

Yeah, exactly. To be fair there are a few decent young managers like Garry Monk and (despite current woes) Brendan Rodgers around, so I'm confident Giggs has at least a certain amount of ability. But like you say, there is a certain something that isn't can't be taught that a manager needs. If someone would've told be a (semi-uncouth thug) like Simeone would've managed to win a league title off Real/Barca's dominance I would've told them they're crazy. And by the same token certain players that you think would make good managers just can't seem to cut it.

I feel like Giggs has received a wealth of information, quite arguably from two of the game's best "old guard" managers, which should stand him in good stead. The only way to find out is to give him the reins and let him give it a shot. I believe he can do it, but it's a matter of testing it in those tough matches and difficult environments. Guardiola obviously has the ability, but I'm not sure if his take on the game suits the PL that well. It may though, since City have been doing their level best to imitate Barcelona's style of play from the Guardiola era, so it may do.

Great news on the Costa issue. Hope he gets a decent ban, or is that too much to ask for? Glad Wenger kept his complaints to Costa only and didn't try to defend Gabriel getting sent off.

Yeah, Costa deserves more than a slap on the wrists. Gabriel was provoked but one can't get away with his kick out at Costa, no matter how light or warranted it was.

 

[DeadPresident]

FSG allegedly interested in selling Liverpool FC to the Dubai royal family.

http://www.winnersports.co.uk/dubai...s-over-planned-takeover-of-liverpool-fc-68842

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Looking quite possible England loses their 4th CL spot to Italy. That would be all kinds of hilarious.

 

[Kaleb]

@DanEdwardsGoal
Juve's Paulo Dybala is on course to replace Gonzalo Higuaín in next Argentina squad, according to TyC Sports.


please be true,world cup qualifiers start next month

 

[B]

He's not. He's reiterated several times he plans to retire in 2017. He's pretty much building Manchester United up for the next manager, who may or may not be Ryan Giggs though I think the board wants Pep Guardiola.

van Gaal actually has quite a good track record in regards to identifying talent, giving youth chances & leaving things in good order. His whole Ajax team even though they all followed him out the door all went on to be world class & arguably legends at their new club (s), van der Sar, Davids, Kluivert, Seedorf, de Boar brothers, Overmars.. and a handful more who's names elude me.

Then look at his stint (s?) at Barca, even though he ultimately didn't reap the all successes at the club players like Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol & more were all coming through into the first team and no doubt I'm sure his hard headed approach to things helped shape them into becoming club legends.

Then with Bayern he brought through Muller, & Lahm I believe seemed to get Schweinsteiger to the next level, signed Toni Kroos as well if I recall & Robben.

I'm sure there's other names I've missed but he seems to be the right man at the right time for us as we needed rebuilt with the sheer volume of figureheads like Scholes, Giggs, Vidic, Rio, Evra & then of course Ferguson himself all leaving/retiring.

Moyes had a disastrous summer transfer window resulting in the Felliani panic buy so it's hard to say what his plans were but replacing Evra with Baines hardly would have filled me with confidence..

 

[Hunter Rider]

Also, I should take a second to talk about the future too. If Rooney continues his bad form, it makes you wonder what United will do with him after season ends. I'm not gonna answer that here because it's too early to tell, but there is potential with United's young players. Januzaj has played well with Dortmund and will be back after this season's over. James Wilson will be around, as well as Andreas Pereira, who are two players with a lot of potential.

I think that Van Gaal has done a good job at offloading the older players and rebuilding this team for the future. It's a younger team with a lot of potential that I hope can be sustained and improved upon.

Plus, I think this could be the beginning of a beautiful combination. If Januzaj and Pereira can both be up to snuff also in the future, the attack could be a dangerous one:

I very much agree with this, I might not always seem the most positive of fans but that is born out of the frustration of feeling we botched the first appointment after SAF and then didn't do quite enough in LvG's second summer window to truly challenge, and the PL looks like it might be a more open race than ever.

I do think the future looks promising with the two young players in the pic already doing well and the likes of Januzaj, Pereira and Wilson hopefully on the cusp as well as the blossoming of Smalling and the return next season of Shaw. We have some excellent young players and with the right 3 buys next summer we could be right on course IMO.

I hope United's scouts are looking at Correa.

I imagine all the big clubs will be monitoring him, he's only 20 but I see him being sought after pretty quickly.

Hunter - Charlie Taylor is a very good player who can go as high as he wants. He's a little bit more of an old school fullback but is adept going forward as his goal on Saturday demonstrates. I'm not sure he's United quality yet though.

I am a bit surprised no one has offered money for another of our youngsters Lewis Cook. He's an 18 year old, but has the footballing brain of a senior pro. I'd urge people to keep an eye out for him.

Thanks man, you think mentally he's the type that could take time to adjust to the new expectations?

I might be wrong but I think Arsenal were said to be interested in Cook this summer. Just look at a pic of him and it's like Lampard and Bale had a baby.

As impressed as I have been with Correa, I have to say Griezmann has probably been my favorite player to watch right now.

Griezmann is class and I think this season he can make the step to being seen as one of the top 5 forward in the world.

Yeah that Moyes contract is a thorn in United's side. I feel bad because Rooney is a fixture with United in my eyes, but it just looks like he's moved beyond being able to contribute week in and week out in the PL. I'd be interested to see if LvG moves for anyone in January, that might give us an indication on whether Rooney might be moved out at the end of this season. With RvP it was clear van Gaal has no qualms about getting rid of players that he doesn't see contributing.

The Rooney situation may well define LvG's time at United, the team has moved beyond him, the style of play doesn't suit him and he looks physically shot. If he remains a fixture he'll be a hindrance to the possibility of LvG winning a PL title in my view, moving him on next summer will be a bold statement of the new United as like you say Rooney has been a fixture for a long time.

IMO United will go for a few players in January that may open the door for Rooney's departure.

Interesting, buying in January is very difficult, I think we may have to wait until the summer to get the level of quality required.

 

[Iceman]

Looking quite possible England loses their 4th CL spot to Italy. That would be all kinds of hilarious.

They deserve to lose it! The PL clubs and most of the fans seem to think it's a divine right rather than something that has come about and been seen to be the norm due to an amazing run of results by the 4 teams competing in the CL every year before Man City broke the quartet up (Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool). UEFA Cup.performances have never really hit the same heights but I agree it would be funny to see how these guys react. The only thing that clubs seem to care about now is finishing 4th, much more so than winning the domestic Cups, and it almost seems to be more than winning the league/CL itself. t:

The interesting thing about this is that more of the determination of whether or not this 4th place is maintained in the long term comes from the performances of your domestic rival teams in Europe than your own so once this registers, fans might want to reconsider if they really want all their rivals to lose in Europe.

 

[Parker Wayne]

With how sh***y the PL has been playing Europe lately, the PL deserves to lose the spot.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

They deserve to lose it! The PL clubs and most of the fans seem to think it's a divine right rather than something that has come about and been seen to be the norm due to an amazing run of results by the 4 teams competing in the CL every year before Man City broke the quartet up (Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool). UEFA Cup.performances have never really hit the same heights but I agree it would be funny to see how these guys react. The only thing that clubs seem to care about now is finishing 4th, much more so than winning the domestic Cups, and it almost seems to be more than winning the league/CL itself. t:

The interesting thing about this is that more of the determination of whether or not this 4th place is maintained in the long term comes from the performances of your domestic rival teams in Europe than your own so once this registers, fans might want to reconsider if they really want all their rivals to lose in Europe.

The performances in the Europa League seem to be killing England. No effort whatsoever.

 

[Parker Wayne]

van Gaal actually has quite a good track record in regards to identifying talent, giving youth chances & leaving things in good order. His whole Ajax team even though they all followed him out the door all went on to be world class & arguably legends at their new club (s), van der Sar, Davids, Kluivert, Seedorf, de Boar brothers, Overmars.. and a handful more who's names elude me.

Then look at his stint (s?) at Barca, even though he ultimately didn't reap the all successes at the club players like Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol & more were all coming through into the first team and no doubt I'm sure his hard headed approach to things helped shape them into becoming club legends.

Then with Bayern he brought through Muller, & Lahm I believe seemed to get Schweinsteiger to the next level, signed Toni Kroos as well if I recall & Robben.

I'm sure there's other names I've missed but he seems to be the right man at the right time for us as we needed rebuilt with the sheer volume of figureheads like Scholes, Giggs, Vidic, Rio, Evra & then of course Ferguson himself all leaving/retiring.

Moyes had a disastrous summer transfer window resulting in the Felliani panic buy so it's hard to say what his plans were but replacing Evra with Baines hardly would have filled me with confidence..

It's one of the things that both excites me and has me cautious about United. This team feels fresh and young which is what this team needed to be. A lot of fat has been cut from the team along with the potential to bring up academy guys as well as the high wages being cut with the potential to cut more wages if United does indeed sell Rooney if he cannot find form.

I very much agree with this, I might not always seem the most positive of fans but that is born out of the frustration of feeling we botched the first appointment after SAF and then didn't do quite enough in LvG's second summer window to truly challenge, and the PL looks like it might be a more open race than ever.

I do think the future looks promising with the two young players in the pic already doing well and the likes of Januzaj, Pereira and Wilson hopefully on the cusp as well as the blossoming of Smalling and the return next season of Shaw. We have some excellent young players and with the right 3 buys next summer we could be right on course IMO.

I definitely agree. I wonder if we'll be in the market for another young Midfielder with Carrick and Schweinsteiger being in their 30s. It would be nice to bring another player in who can learn from these guys.

I also think we still need to figure out the right wing, whether that ends up be Januzaj or someone else. I really wish we brought in Griezmann or Pedro because that would put us right up there with City, but we can't keep dwlling on the Pedro thing.

I think Right Wing should be a priority as well a young Midfielder and a CB who can be a great compliment to Smalling.

I imagine all the big clubs will be monitoring him, he's only 20 but I see him being sought after pretty quickly.

It's going to be interesting where he ends up in a year or two. A lot of it is going to hinge on Aletico's success.

 

[Iceman]

The performances in the Europa League seem to be killing England. No effort whatsoever.

Those teams have viewed the competition as a massive burden. Some of them seem to actually want to go out early if they can get away with it. It's CL or nothing for them, and if this happens it'll always be nothing for them.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Those teams have viewed the competition as a massive burden. Some of them seem to actually want to go out early if they can get away with it. It's CL or nothing for them, and if this happens it'll always be nothing for them.

Liverpool better realize that there will be no 4th place to chase if they don't do better in the Europa League.

 

[Parker Wayne]

This article does bring up a good point. It's confusing why Wilson hasn't at least been included in the matchday squad. He's a better backup choice for striker than Fellaini and should be included at least for League Cup ties.

 

[Iceman]

Liverpool better realize that there will be no 4th place to chase if they don't do better in the Europa League.

Yep and same goes for Spurs! But the entertaining thing is that Liverpool better start supporting Utd in Europe and Spurs better start supporting Arsenal! If the change ever happens it is likely to impact those teams more likely to finish below the cutoff more heavily.

 

[Zantera]

Arsenal/Man United/Liverpool/Spurs are definitely the clubs that are *****ed if PL loses that 4th spot. I expect teams like Chelsea/City (at least for the next 10 years) to end up in top 3, because they have the best foundations to stand on, they have the better teams and aren't afraid to spend the cash. I would also say they're the two clubs in England (at the moment) that could get the best players out there, whereas Man U/Arsenal/Liverpool might have a slightly harder time with it. Times will change, but for the moment City/Chelsea has bigger appeal than the others, and have performed consistently better in the last few years.

Seeing Man United/Arsenal/Liverpool fight out for ONE CL-spot would be incredibly tough.

 

[Kaleb]

@SkySportsNewsHQ
BREAKING NEWS: Arsenal win appeal against Gabriel's red card at Chelsea on Saturday. More on #SSNHQ

 

[kit1982]

Lol so it's not a red card offence to kick out at an opponent? They've pretty much undone the one thing the ref got right!

 

[Iceman]

Oh I didn't realise Arsenal appealed that. And I'm surprised they won although I feel like the FA are trying to differentiate between Gabriel's offence and Costa's even if that isn't necessarily the right thing to do here. I thought Gabriel's red should have stood but any further citing was unnecessary freeing them to fully go after Costa and nip his activities in the bud (although a bit late for that lol).

 

[DeadPresident]

I can only imagine their rationale pertains to Costa's provocation. I wonder what they'll do about his behaviour during the game, hopefully at least a one game ban.

 

[Iceman]

Arsenal/Man United/Liverpool/Spurs are definitely the clubs that are *****ed if PL loses that 4th spot. I expect teams like Chelsea/City (at least for the next 10 years) to end up in top 3, because they have the best foundations to stand on, they have the better teams and aren't afraid to spend the cash. I would also say they're the two clubs in England (at the moment) that could get the best players out there, whereas Man U/Arsenal/Liverpool might have a slightly harder time with it. Times will change, but for the moment City/Chelsea has bigger appeal than the others, and have performed consistently better in the last few years.

Seeing Man United/Arsenal/Liverpool fight out for ONE CL-spot would be incredibly tough.

City and Chelsea are the favourites for the top 2 spots for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if one of them finished 4th in a season in the near future. This change would affect all the big PL teams as that guarantee of CL football (which used to be strong before City broke into the top 4) would no longer be a guarantee for any PL club. Barcelona, Real and Bayern for eg don't have this problem. A player going to one of those clubs pretty much knows that those clubs will be in the CL EVERY year pretty much whatever happens. But we agree that those on the fringes of qualification like Spurs and Liverpool (with Arsenal & Utd next in the firing line) are going to be hardest hit with the possibility of hardly ever qualifying.

 

[Iceman]

I can only imagine their rationale pertains to Costa's provocation. I wonder what they'll do about his behaviour during the game, hopefully at least a one game ban.

Yeah, there are some incidents during the match that went totally unpunished so they at least have more scope (within their own silly restrictive rules) to do something.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I definitely agree. I wonder if we'll be in the market for another young Midfielder with Carrick and Schweinsteiger being in their 30s. It would be nice to bring another player in who can learn from these guys.

I think we might, that double pivot in midfield is so important to the system, and in truth I feel Carrick is struggling with it a bit as it means more running than he had in the system last year that was perfect for a player of his age, like Pirlo had at Juve. Carrick will be 35 a the start of next season, I wouldn't be surprised if he retired at the end of this one and joined LvG's coaching staff.

I also think we still need to figure out the right wing, whether that ends up be Januzaj or someone else. I really wish we brought in Griezmann or Pedro because that would put us right up there with City, but we can't keep dwlling on the Pedro thing.

Griezmann is absolutely the player we need for there as he can also play off the striker centrally if needed, him and hopefully Januzaj could rotate between the two spots during the game.

I think Right Wing should be a priority as well a young Midfielder and a CB who can be a great compliment to Smalling.

Agreed, this is my ideal summer 2016 transfer window.

It's going to be interesting where he ends up in a year or two. A lot of it is going to hinge on Aletico's success.

I could see Barca sniffing around as Suarez will be heading towards 31 by then.

This article does bring up a good point. It's confusing why Wilson hasn't at least been included in the matchday squad. He's a better backup choice for striker than Fellaini and should be included at least for League Cup ties.

I have to wonder if there's something attitude-wise LvG is seeing in training from Wilson that has soured him on the kid a bit.