The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 55

[Iceman]

The Greenwood saga is just disturbing because the reports were that her own dad was the one who pressured her to drop the charges. Feels like one of those "just be quiet and take it, you get to be with a celebrity footballer" and it's deeply disturbing on so many levels.

I for one hope we don't see him in our shirt again. How come we can't get a Saudi bid for him when other clubs get to dump their garbage? If anything the crimes he's accused of isn't that big of a deal down there.

Will be a sickener if we ever see him play in the PL again.

 

[Bobber]

If someone was being physically & emotionally abusive to me in a relationship to the point were I went to the police, I don't think I'd be going back to them after such a short turnaround.

It's actually pretty common in abusive relationships.

 

[B]

It's actually pretty common in abusive relationships.

Aye I have heard/read about it happening quite a lot & there have even been some celebrity examples. I get that mistakes happen particularly when you're young, people get angry, drunk or both & do or say something they later regret.. but if it's a reoccurring issue, well for me it's quite hard for me to wrap my head around why I'd maintain a relationship with that person.

I'm not against people getting second chances either, but what makes it extremely hard, at least in Greenwood's case & why I wouldn't give him in particular a second chance to resume his career at least with Manchester United, is the audio which was disturbing. If I recall she tells him she doesn't want to have sex multiple times & he basically says he doesn't care then threatens her if she continues to push him away.

That's not really something you can publicly say sorry for & expect people to swallow easily. The bruises on their own, people might be able to swallow an apology that it was a bad argument that turned violent with one partner coming off worse, but trying to sexually assault your partner with threatening behaviour if they don't comply with audio verification, isn't something I think people would accept.

 

[Zantera]

Any predictions for positive surprises and disappointments?

I think Spurs could be a surprise. See lots of people writing them off "wont finish top10" and so on. I actually think with a manager who wants to play football, there's a lot of talent there that could be unlocked and I could see Spurs finishing maybe top6 or something like that. After Conte and Mourinho I think this season could be the first positive one for Spurs since the Poch days. I also think Chelsea could have a good season, flying a bit under the radar because of all the chaos last year, all the signings and outgoings, but the pre season has looked solid and they could be that team that sneaks into the top4 race that nobody quite expects.

On the other side I think West Ham and Wolves might struggle. Winning the Conference League looks like a negative for West Ham because they're now stuck with Moyes, a manager they don't seem that keen on backing and their window hasn't been that strong. With Rice out the door it feels right now (maybe signings can change that) like a team in turmoil. Similarly for Wolves it feels like every season has been weaker than the previous one and they're not really making any exciting moves on the transfer market. Do they have enough in them to stay up?

I think also Newcastle could be a disappointment depending on expectations. With CL added to their schedule, I don't think Newcastle will make top4 and I wouldn't be surprised if they finished 7th or 8th or something like that. I don't think they'll have a BAD season, just they will get a glimpse of balancing PL with CL and I think some players who maybe outperformed their ability last year will drop down to more of an expected level again. (Also teams that finished below Newcastle last season like Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs, maybe even Villa, I think will have good seasons.)

 

[Iceman]

Newcastle agree £40m deal for Saints' Livramento

Seems expensive.

 

[Iceman]

Any predictions for positive surprises and disappointments?

I think Spurs could be a surprise. See lots of people writing them off "wont finish top10" and so on. I actually think with a manager who wants to play football, there's a lot of talent there that could be unlocked and I could see Spurs finishing maybe top6 or something like that. After Conte and Mourinho I think this season could be the first positive one for Spurs since the Poch days. I also think Chelsea could have a good season, flying a bit under the radar because of all the chaos last year, all the signings and outgoings, but the pre season has looked solid and they could be that team that sneaks into the top4 race that nobody quite expects.

On the other side I think West Ham and Wolves might struggle. Winning the Conference League looks like a negative for West Ham because they're now stuck with Moyes, a manager they don't seem that keen on backing and their window hasn't been that strong. With Rice out the door it feels right now (maybe signings can change that) like a team in turmoil. Similarly for Wolves it feels like every season has been weaker than the previous one and they're not really making any exciting moves on the transfer market. Do they have enough in them to stay up?

I think also Newcastle could be a disappointment depending on expectations. With CL added to their schedule, I don't think Newcastle will make top4 and I wouldn't be surprised if they finished 7th or 8th or something like that. I don't think they'll have a BAD season, just they will get a glimpse of balancing PL with CL and I think some players who maybe outperformed their ability last year will drop down to more of an expected level again. (Also teams that finished below Newcastle last season like Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs, maybe even Villa, I think will have good seasons.)

I think this new manager at Spurs is a good move and will have a lot more hunger than a Conte or a Mourinho at this stage. Playing attractive football is a big plus too, win or lose.

West Ham are in trouble if they don’t spend soon. The team that started last season minus their best player could face a very tough run, and with Europe to contend with again. Wolves seem to be slowly disappearing as a force in the PL and almost seem resigned to battling to stay up.

From forums, most Newcastle fans don’t seem to expect top 4 and many don’t think top 6 is safe. Of course everyone wants CL ideally and thinks it might be possible but then so is finishing behind the top 6 plus Villa and Brighton. I think fans just want to see the professional process started by Howe continue and keep building a solid foundation for the future. Also to be able to see the team give their best each week especially at home, win or lose.

It only takes one off season for even Liverpool to go from domination and the main team to challenge City while also realistically competing for the CL - to struggling to qualify at all. They did well to finish 5th in the end. But if every team has a 7/10 season that would mean City, Arsenal Liverpool, Chelsea and Utd finishing above us, with Spurs and Villa with probably even odds to also do so and with Brighton also in with a decent chance.

I’m hopeful Tonali can prove to be an astute buy, but otherwise we haven’t had a huge window and still have a much weaker wider squad than most of the big teams with many players who overperformed and may find that level difficult to sustain as you say (Almiron was already dropping off towards the end of the season).

I don’t know if Villa count but I’d choose them as dark horses. At this point I don’t think it will even be that much of a surprise if they have a great season and overtake some of the established teams so it’s not like say Brentford or Palace doing it.

 

[Iceman]

Watford kick off the season 4-0 up at half-time against QPR!

 

[BlackFox]

Bit of an eye opener for the Wrexham fairytale yesterday getting hammered 5-3 at home by the MK Dons. The football league might be a little tougher this season for them, or Ryan Reynolds will be banning Hugh Jackman from turning up ever again as he's an unlucky charm.

 

[B]

We're 3 games into his United career & Onana's already been chipped from about 40 yards after a poor pass from Dalot went straight to a Lens player. Still won the game in the end, but that's a massive red flag & warning that because of how far he stands outfield, while yes it can be a massive help retaining possession, if you make a bad pass you're likely going to be punished.

 

[Zantera]

We're 3 games into his United career & Onana's already been chipped from about 40 yards after a poor pass from Dalot went straight to a Lens player. Still won the game in the end, but that's a massive red flag & warning that because of how far he stands outfield, while yes it can be a massive help retaining possession, if you make a bad pass you're likely going to be punished.

It's the modern keeper dilemma but I don't necessarily think Onana will be any worse than Ederson, Allison or Ramsdale in that regard. This kind of keeper will have a blinder every now and then because of how they play but what they contribute will usually make up for it.

 

[B]

It's the modern keeper dilemma but I don't necessarily think Onana will be any worse than Ederson, Allison or Ramsdale in that regard. This kind of keeper will have a blinder every now and then because of how they play but what they contribute will usually make up for it.

I'd like him to just stay a little closer to his goal, if the ball is only at your halfway line, I don't really think there's a need for you to be outside of the box which is what it looked like he was yesterday. If he was say only at the edge of his penalty box, but still inside it when Dalot misplaced the pass, he probably would have got back & caught the ball handily.

I get that hindsight helps & he obviously didn't expect Dalot to be so careless with the ball, but it's something he should keep in mind, he's partially responsible for the goal as well because of how high he was up the pitch. I don't want to see this sort of thing happen every other week which is my biggest fear with him.

 

[Iceman]

Cole Palmer puts City 1-0 up in the Charity Shield against Arsenal. Could be a breakout season for him.

 

[Iceman]

Trossard scores an equaliser 11 mins into injury time and Arsenal then win on pens!

 

[BlackFox]

We're 3 games into his United career & Onana's already been chipped from about 40 yards after a poor pass from Dalot went straight to a Lens player. Still won the game in the end, but that's a massive red flag & warning that because of how far he stands outfield, while yes it can be a massive help retaining possession, if you make a bad pass you're likely going to be punished.

Ramsdale nearly got done in the Charity shield too in a similar fashion, players are going to be more aware of keepers coming off thier line and its going to be something intelligent and players with good technique will be able to take advatange of.

Its all very well your keeper wanting to come out and play but if the rest of your team arent good enough to keep hold of the ball after your going to leave your keeper exposed for some embarrassment. Everyone wants to play like prime 09/10 Barca but not many sides are capable, City maybe the rest, eh, not so much yet.

 

[Hunter Rider]

The pre-season and transfer window have been a mixed bag. Kobbie Mainoo coming through has been exciting and Garnacho and Pellistri have looked sharp, plus Dan Gore and Alvaro Fernandez look good prospects while i think the development of Sancho as a false 9 has been intriguing. On the flipside the injury to Amad is a real shame, the midfield looks unbalanced and the starting wide players remain too individualistic.

Ten Hag got the keeper he wanted, I think Hojlund looks a really good prospect and hopefully we still sign Amrabat but the Mount signing still makes no sense to me, Casemiro looks completely isolated with both Bruno and Mount ahead of him because neither of them are actually #8's, while Eriksen looks leggy to me, midfield is so unbalanced, I wish we'd waited and moved for Goretzka instead, a Casemiro/Goretzka/Bruno midfield with Amrabat/Mainoo/Eriksen as the back-up/cover midfield would be pretty strong.

My biggest concerns going into the season are that Hojlund won't be ready so Rashford will be the #9 for the first few games which he clearly doesn't like, and Ten Hag will continuously try to force Antony and Mount into the starting 11 while Sancho and Amrabat feed off scraps.

Great to hear. Really hope you can get rid of some of these players asap and get in players who have the tools that Utd need and the will to give everything on the pitch. Too many coasters in the squad at the moment who would be better off elsewhere.

Martial does at least seem like the kind of player the Saudi league might be interested in.

Talk of a £60M double bid for Maguire and McTominay as well as talks with Real Soceidad for Van de Beek, if we get all 3 sold along with Fred it's a long way to finally clearing the deadwood. Martial will be harder to shift though, ut seems like he's going to linger for another season.

I believe it's the same girl if I'm not mistaken, the pair must never have actually split despite her accusing him of abuse & going to the police if they now have a child. It said the charges were dropped because a key witness withdrew from investigation, so presumably that must be the girlfriend/accuser & also because 'new evidence came to light', whatever that means.

If someone was being physically & emotionally abusive to me in a relationship to the point were I went to the police, I don't think I'd be going back to them after such a short turnaround.

Wow! That's insane and as Zantera says disturbing, I just want shot of him ASAP.

[I'd imagine he is in the top 10 earners quite comfortably, but I meant I don't think he would be that sort of top 3-5 sort of region.

Couldn't agree more, he just makes so many even minor errors like the one against Dortmund, it was a lacklustre pass that hung, I believe it was Eriksen(?), out to dry. Onana earned some points for chastising him & he was completely justified, Eriksen (or whoever he sold short) should have had a go at him as well, friendly or not. I don't think he's afraid to go to West Ham, I'd imagine it's more of how much of a paycut would he need to take that's a stalling point & of course the fee between clubs. I'd have taken £20m for him though which is apparently what they offered & we rejected.

Same with McTominay, if you get £20m for him, you've done well, if they actually get the £40m+ they want, we should name a stand after our negotiator. Henderson can go I don't think he's anywhere close to as good as people hyped him up to be, Fred I'd keep if we can't get the right fee as a rotation/backup & VdB I thought would get a turn under EtH but it's been the same story as previous manager(s) so I'd let him go.

Martial's Sevilla loan didn't do him any favours either, his stock as at an all time low. I'd be surprised if he's sold this summer, as you say, it would probably take an offer from a Saudi club to take him off our hands at this point.

Maguire was to blame for the goal yesterday as well, although he assisted Pellistri for our goal. Him and McTominay just have zero ambition, neither are pushing for a move, McTominay seems happy to coast along as a squad player and Maguire's ego is a real issue, despite the fact he looks totally lacking in confidence.

Martial staying as back-up and Pellistri going on loan again are really frustrating choices from Ten Hag, most top teams don't carry two specialist #9's, if you look at City, Liverpool, Newcastle, Spurs and Chelsea they all have one #9 and then versatile forwards to cover the position, only Arsenal have two #9's but their back-up (Nketia) came through their academy, I was hoping we'd just use Sancho as a false 9 this season, jettison Martial and keep Pellistri.

 

[Zantera]

I'm not that concerned with our midfield, to me Mount/Casemiro/Bruno is a top4 midfield just comparing to our rivals. But yeah lack of cover is an issue. For me I'm more worried about goals because Rashford is very inconsistent and as hyped as I am for Hojlund - reality is we don't know if he will score 10 goals or 25 goals this season. I would also love for us to sign a center back if Maguire goes. Varane is a bit too injury prone as well.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I'm not that concerned with our midfield, to me Mount/Casemiro/Bruno is a top4 midfield just comparing to our rivals. But yeah lack of cover is an issue. For me I'm more worried about goals because Rashford is very inconsistent and as hyped as I am for Hojlund - reality is we don't know if he will score 10 goals or 25 goals this season. I would also love for us to sign a center back if Maguire goes. Varane is a bit too injury prone as well.

I think the forwards need to start working as a unit, they're to individual right now, but did you see the pre-season games with Casemiro/Mount/Bruno? Casemiro is constantly left isolated because neither Bruno or Mount are #8's and don't understand the defensive side of tbe position, neither drops in to help Casemiro, they both press too high and it allows teams to run on us with ease, hopefully when Amrabat comes in one of them will play wide. As for CB, I think Evans might stay for the season but we've also been linked with Todibo today.

 

[Zantera]

I think the forwards need to start working as a unit, they're to individual right now, but did you see the pre-season games with Casemiro/Mount/Bruno? Casemiro is constantly left isolated because neither Bruno or Mount are #8's and don't understand the defensive side of tbe position, neither drops in to help Casemiro, they both press too high and it allows teams to run on us with ease, hopefully when Amrabat comes in one of them will play wide. As for CB, I think Evans might stay for the season but we've also been linked with Todibo today.

I'm not saying it's a flawless midfield by any means but we finished third last year and I do consider Mount an upgrade on Eriksen. Could our midfield still be better? Sure, but if anything I'll give ETH the benefit of the doubt to work out the kinks of it. It's his system after all and if he wanted Mount for that position then he either thinks it will work or he has a plan to make small changes and make it work.

Just aside from Rashford or Hojlund we do need some of our wingers to start firing this season. Sancho, Antony, Garnacho need to start add more goals and assists and we can't just rely on Rashford or Bruno to bail us out. I like what I've seen from Pellistri but sadly it feels like he wont get the chance but I also wouldn't be surprised if he went on to be great for another team.

 

[Iceman]

Looks like West Ham have made 30m bids for both Maguire and McTominay.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I'm not saying it's a flawless midfield by any means but we finished third last year and I do consider Mount an upgrade on Eriksen. Could our midfield still be better? Sure, but if anything I'll give ETH the benefit of the doubt to work out the kinks of it. It's his system after all and if he wanted Mount for that position then he either thinks it will work or he has a plan to make small changes and make it work.

Just aside from Rashford or Hojlund we do need some of our wingers to start firing this season. Sancho, Antony, Garnacho need to start add more goals and assists and we can't just rely on Rashford or Bruno to bail us out. I like what I've seen from Pellistri but sadly it feels like he wont get the chance but I also wouldn't be surprised if he went on to be great for another team.

I keep seeing the notion that Mount is an upgrade on Eriksen but how? He's more mobile and energetic, but Eriksen is a better passer and positionally smarter, so it's pros and cons. I'm a huge fan of Ten Hag but he's bought a player who isn't a #8 and who has played most of his career as a #10 or Wide attacker, and is trying to make him into sonething he's not, I just don't get it and i think he'll end playing Amrabat there most of the time.

I agree that Sancho and Antony in particular need to really improve their output, especially with creating for our bew striker, and the Pellistri situation is the first time Ten Hag has pulled some Mourinho nonsense, he's favouring Antony because he needs to justify the ludicrous fee he got United to pay for him.

Looks like West Ham have made 30m bids for both Maguire and McTominay.

We'll never get a better offer for them.

 

[Zantera]

Amrabat would be a good signing, I'm all for another midfielder who brings something different. Even though I feel more confidence about Mount-Casemiro-Bruno than a lot of other fans, reality is that different games might require different gameplans and thats why you want depth and variety. Do I think this is a midfield that could be great in most PL games? Sure. But lets say we're going to Anfield or play City, I would gladly have another more physical player in there and just make adjustments.

But I feel like we already saw that last season. As good as we played in some games, the Eriksen-Casemiro-Bruno midfield got run over in some games.

 

[BlackFox]

Looks like West Ham have made 30m bids for both Maguire and McTominay.

Really should snap their hands off at that price. Maguire needs to go the most for all concerned but can see at least one of them digging their heals in and staying.

Maguire just didnt work out, overpayed for him but thats our problem, he was bought about 3 managers ago and clearly not in the plans of this one. Really should move on invest the money elsewhere.

Would rather get shot of Fred than McT but neither really are up to standard and both seem happy sitting on a bench and taking a wage unfortunately.

 

[Iceman]

https://www.skysports.com/ipad/liveArticle/12476234?postid=6263411#liveblog-body
Man Utd reject West Ham's £30m McTominay

 

[B]

Wow! That's insane and as Zantera says disturbing, I just want shot of him ASAP.

Maguire was to blame for the goal yesterday as well, although he assisted Pellistri for our goal. Him and McTominay just have zero ambition, neither are pushing for a move, McTominay seems happy to coast along as a squad player and Maguire's ego is a real issue, despite the fact he looks totally lacking in confidence.

Martial staying as back-up and Pellistri going on loan again are really frustrating choices from Ten Hag, most top teams don't carry two specialist #9's, if you look at City, Liverpool, Newcastle, Spurs and Chelsea they all have one #9 and then versatile forwards to cover the position, only Arsenal have two #9's but their back-up (Nketia) came through their academy, I was hoping we'd just use Sancho as a false 9 this season, jettison Martial and keep Pellistri.

Aye I'm the same, there's no way he can come back into the fold & I think EtH would have likely told the club that, he seems to have washed his hands of the situation & said it's the club/ceo/owners decision.


West Ham make improved bid for Man Utd defender worth £30m: West Ham also made a separate £30m bid for Scott McTominay which Man Utd have rejected



I also read earlier that apparently West Ham might have interest in Martial also, which would be just wonderful if we could flog all 3 of them. Whoever's rejecting these McTominay bids though is taking the piss.

 

[Zantera]

Even as someone who doesn't particularly rate McTominay, if players like Gallagher is rumored to be worth 40m I don't see why McTominay would be worth less. If you are planning to cash that check, it is a gamble to turn these bids down as I'm not sure West Ham would come back at 40-45, but I get the reasoning for thinking he is worth that. It seems like we're more keen to off load Fred, unfortunately the fees reported for him are in the 15-20m area which is a lot less.