The Penguin The Penguin on HBO - General Discussion

[DarkKnight88]

The OC.

 

[Gandhi]

The name change is getting a lot of traction online and is proving to be pretty controversial. It’s the most negative feedback I’ve seen towards Reeves since he started. Obviously there’s always been negativity from certain groups who don’t like this iteration or have alternate agendas but this is the first time I’m seeing an overall dislike from those who are positive/neutral towards The Batman saga. People are frustrated at the extent to which he’s trying to ground the universe.

While I don’t think it’ll have a major impact in the long term and people will hopefully enjoy the show, I have to say I agree in this instance. I personally wish he hadn’t done it. Also makes me slightly worried for any other changes/choices he might make going forward.

 

[TheGDBatman]

I don't have a problem with the name change. Maybe it'll tie into the Court of Owls, maybe it won't.

 

[flickchick85]

Much ado about nothing.

Honestly, this version of the character seems to come from nothing, and “Cobb” has a more blue collar vibe while “Cobblepot” very much sounds like “old money,” so it makes enough sense to me.

 

[Sawyer]

We’ve had multiple incarnations of an origin for the Joker that have been cooked up purely for film/TV purposes. Burton gave us a deformed Penguin who grew up in the sewers and a Catwoman who couldn’t die. No live action incarnation has really given us a proper Bane.

If anyone is all that upset by a name change for Oswald, they need a lot less free time on their hands.

 

[BatLobster]

I always felt like Oswald coming from money and the Cobblepot family being a part of Gotham’s history is a nice touch with the character. You can still present him as a street-level guy who’s had to work his way up the ranks, but if for whatever reason he’s been cut off from his family/fortune it can inform some of his inferiority complex and drive to take back what he feels is rightfully his. Assuming the Cobblepot name signals “old money”, there are plenty of realistic reasons he could have the name while still having humble origins— it wouldn’t really require explanation. I mean, if they were going for full-on realism, Farrell’s version seems more likely to be named Osvaldo Coballepotti .

Granted, this might be a totally different take so I’m curious what they’ll do with it in the show. But I don’t quite buy that Cobb is a more “grounded” name than Cobblepot…I do suspect the bigger reason for the change could be a tie to the Court with the whole William Cobb thing.

 

[flickchick85]

I always felt like Oswald coming from money and the Cobblepot family being a part of Gotham’s history is a nice touch with the character. You can still present him as a street-level guy who’s had to work his way up the ranks, but if for whatever reason he’s been cut off from his family/fortune it can inform some of his inferiority complex and drive to take back what he feels is rightfully his. Assuming the Cobblepot name signals “old money”, there are plenty of realistic reasons he could have the name while still having humble origins— it wouldn’t really require explanation.

That's no more or less a valid take than this is.

The hand-wringing over this is beyond ridiculous imo. It's a villain's last name. People got over it with the Riddler, they'll get over it here.

 

[BatLobster]

That's no more or less a valid take than this is.

The hand-wringing over this is beyond ridiculous imo. It's a villain's last name. People got over it with the Riddler, they'll get over it here.

To be clear, I don't really care-- doesn't effect my enjoyment one way or another, and I agree it's silly for anyone to get bent out of shape about it, but fandom gonna fandom. I'm just saying I don't quite fully buy the reasoning given, mainly because I think there's potentially another reason that they're not gonna reveal at this time. Overall it just makes me curious to see what this interpretation of The Penguin is all about. Farrell makes such an impression in The Batman that you forget how little screentime he has and little we actually learn about him.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I will Werner Herzog my shoes if William Cobb is a thing. I'll even fry up the sole of one and have a lil snacky if Matt Reeves even knows who William Cobb is.

I don't like the name being shortened but I truly feel that any reaction positive or negative beyond "Oh, okay I guess?" and "Huh, that's kinda dumb, anyways!" is a strong overreaction.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

*Reads thread*

 

[Snow Queen]

Oh no, the critically-acclaimed HBO series about a Batman villain is going to bomb now.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I always felt like Oswald coming from money and the Cobblepot family being a part of Gotham’s history is a nice touch with the character. You can still present him as a street-level guy who’s had to work his way up the ranks, but if for whatever reason he’s been cut off from his family/fortune it can inform some of his inferiority complex and drive to take back what he feels is rightfully his. Assuming the Cobblepot name signals “old money”, there are plenty of realistic reasons he could have the name while still having humble origins— it wouldn’t really require explanation. I mean, if they were going for full-on realism, Farrell’s version seems more likely to be named Osvaldo Coballepotti .

Granted, this might be a totally different take so I’m curious what they’ll do with it in the show. But I don’t quite buy that Cobb is a more “grounded” name than Cobblepot…I do suspect the bigger reason for the change could be a tie to the Court with the whole William Cobb thing.

Realistic is a better word than "grounded" since Cobblepott is likely a made-up or extremely rare English surname.

Besides, given that this particular take on Penguin appears to be Italian-American (as you've playfully alluded to), it's cleaner for him to have a more simple name like Cobb. You could just say that it was originally something like Cobbini and his Italian forebears had it anglicized when they immigrated to the US. I initially suggested that he could be part Italian and part English, but when you give him two heritages like that, you run into other complications. For instance, you may recall that in the movie Goodfellas, James Conway and Henry Hill were both denied the opportunity to become "made men" in the Mafia because they were half Irish and not entirely Italian. So, yeah, having a common surname like Cobb just makes the "anglicized" explanation cleaner, IMO.

 

[Kane52630]

Cool gig for Amy Nicholson. It reminds me of when she did that Halloween retrospective pod.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Realistic is a better word than "grounded" since Cobblepott is likely a made-up or extremely rare English surname.

Besides, given that this particular take on Penguin appears to be Italian-American (as you've playfully alluded to), it's cleaner for him to have a more simple name like Cobb. You could just say that it was originally something like Cobbini and his Italian forebears had it anglicized when they immigrated to the US. I initially suggested that he could be part Italian and part English, but when you give him two heritages like that, you run into other complications. For instance, you may recall that in the movie Goodfellas, James Conway and Henry Hill were both denied the opportunity to become "made men" in the Mafia because they were half Irish and not entirely Italian. So, yeah, having a common surname like Cobb just makes the "anglicized" explanation cleaner, IMO.

I will not be doing that.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I will not be doing that.

Yeah, that's just an example assuming he's even meant to be Italian-American in this universe.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, that's just an example assuming he's even meant to be Italian-American in this universe.

Yeah, I get you. Just couldn't resist the joke.

 

[OrbOfConfusion]

I figured "Oz" was pretty accepted by now. Not that he was ever referred to by his full name like on Gotham, and even Ed, I'm pretty sure most of the time in The Batman, they referred to him as the Riddler. Is "Cobb" odd? I suppose, but in the grand scheme of things, it's fairly minor. It'd be a bigger deal if it was, say, Reeves saying that Selina will be referred to as some random name like "Patience Phillips."

 

[BatLobster]

Hopefully for The Batman Part II we can get the Oz Cobb Salad on the menu at Alamo Drafthouse. With iceberg lettuce of course.

 

[J.Drangal]

My take is thay the name-change isn't a big deal, but the reason is a bit silly.
I mean, I've yet to meet someone called Carmine Falcone or Pennyworth, so a Cobblepot...
Also, without opening the can of worms of debates about realism or what constitutes a “grounded approach”, I don't think something as simple as that name would have been as jarring with what was introduced in the first film, an universe with gangsters wearing striped suits at the same time as modern/futuristic technology, secret clubs and, well, a Batman.

Anyway, not something that will matters in the grand scheme of things.
The character was pretty much cemented in my mind as “Oz” anyway.

Yeah, that's just an example assuming he's even meant to be Italian-American in this universe.

To be fair, this version of the character was probably a "pasta scene" away from being canceled...

I'm kidding, of course.
But to me, he was definitely conceived as the typical "New York Italian" mafioso.

 

[Filmfreak]

Oz Cobb huh? I'll do you one better. Instead of Oz you can make his first name Salad. That way you can even change his club from Iceberg Lounge to Iceberg Lettuce. Lettuce is literally growing from the ground. You can't get more grounded than that.

Hopefully for The Batman Part II we can get the Oz Cobb Salad on the menu at Alamo Drafthouse. With iceberg lettuce of course.

 

[BatLobster]

I swear, I missed your post!

Glad I wasn't alone in going straight for the dad joke.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

My take is thay the name-change isn't a big deal, but the reason is a bit silly.
I mean, I've yet to meet someone called Carmine Falcone or Pennyworth, so a Cobblepot...
Also, without opening the can of worms of debates about realism or what constitutes a “grounded approach”, I don't think something as simple as that name would have been as jarring with what was introduced in the first film, an universe with gangsters wearing striped suits at the same time as modern/futuristic technology, secret clubs and, well, a Batman.

Anyway, not something that will matters in the grand scheme of things.
The character was pretty much cemented in my mind as “Oz” anyway.

Believe it or not, Carmine and Falcone are indeed real names. In any case, I think Reeves simply felt that the surname Cobblepott was a little too old-fashioned or formal sounding for a character that comes from such modest beginnings, as this version of Penguin does. If Penguin (this Penguin to be clear, not Penguin in general) came from an English background like Alfred does, I suspect that Reeves would've kept the name the same. But the notion of Oswald having to rise up from nothing was essentially how he found his way into the character. It makes for a completely different real-world perspective than someone who was born into privilege even if they were later deprived of it. That person would still relate to that status in a way someone from humble origins could not.

To be fair, this version of the character was probably a "pasta scene" away from being canceled...

I'm kidding, of course.
But to me, he was definitely conceived as the typical "New York Italian" mafioso.

Oh yeah, everything from the accent to the mannerisms to the prosthetics screams

.

Granted, Cobb doesn't sound any more Italian than Cobblepott does, but it is notably shorter, which supports my anglicization theory a little better. lol

 

[Pennywise]

 

[Sawyer]

 

[Lily Adler]

Hopefully for The Batman Part II we can get the Oz Cobb Salad on the menu at Alamo Drafthouse. With iceberg lettuce of course.