The Perfect Hulk Movie

[The Question]

^ You might prefer watching a character-driven episode of the Fugitive. No Hulk at all, just the man on the run, helping people in need etc.

No, I wouldn't prefer that, because The Fugitive is about a guy who was wrongfully arrested for a murder trying to find the real killer, not about a guy who transforms into a monster and breaks things when he's angry.

 

[schereZada]

My perfect Hulk movie, I imagine, would be a far cry from most people's perfect Hulk movie, because my perfect Hulk movie would be extremely light on action. As in, I really wouldn't want there to be a big action set piece for a climax, and one, maybe two action beats throughout the whole film.

I don't really care about action. In fact, I usually find it quite boring. To me, it's just things happening on screen, and I really desperately need to be emotionally invested in some way before I start to enjoy the action. To me, a good action sequence is one where the action comes from a place of motivation, where the action comes from characters attempting to achieve or thwart something that matters to them, that I can identify, and that I care about. It's why I hate the light saber duels in the prequels, because the characters really aren't fighting for anything besides a generic notion of winning, and nothing about the fight is particularly visceral or personal.

Furthermore, the most interesting things to me about The Hulk have very little to do with actually seeing The Hulk on screen. For me, it's all about Banner as a character. What he's going through, and how The Hulk burdens him. The details of how Bruce hides from he authorities, how his condition weighs on him emotionally, the moral dilemmas he faces, the things he has to sacrifice for the well being of others, that's the stuff I come to the table for. The Hulk is just the catalyst for that. I remember one particular Hulk run that I was fond of where we almost never saw The Hulk. We only really saw the moment right before Banner changed and then the aftermath. I always thought that was really neat.

Ultimately, to me, The Hulk isn't a superhero story. It's a werewolf story. And in a werewolf story, the centerpiece isn't seeing the werewolf. It's seeing how the human deals with the werewolf.

And when we do see The Hulk, again, I'm generally less interested in the action spectacle of The Hulk and more interested in seeing the raw humanity of The Hulk. I like seeing how Bruce's personality filters through that state of being. I like seeing the balance of how much being the Hulk changes who Bruce is and how much it doesn't. I like seeing The Hulk in situations where he has to interact with humans in a non-smashing capacity, or when he has to run for his life from his pursuers. When the Hulk fights, I'm more interested in the Hulk as the cornered animal, not the Hulk as the superhero.

And, I want to stress that I generally do not consider Bruce Banner and The Hulk to be two separate entities, and I prefer interpretations of the character that think the same way I do. I prefer to see The Hulk not as a separate person with a separate personality who just happens to share Bruce's body, but Bruce Banner in an altered state of consciousness.


So, with all of that said, my ideal Hulk movie would be a relatively quiet one. The Hulk would show up maybe twice in the whole film, in at least one of those instances without any real action, and it would mostly be about Bruce dealing with the burden of being The Hulk. The Leader would be the main villain, wanting to harness The Hulk's power for his own evil schemes, but the climax of the film wouldn't be a huge action spectacle where The Hulk fights a Hulk-ified version of The Leader or one of The Leader's giant robots or something, and would not involve the destruction of a town or city. I'd want it to be more cerebral, with a lot of dialogue between Bruce and Stern and a lot of exchanged ideas, perhaps even have Bruce save the day as himself without transforming as a little character win for him.


Granted, I totally understand that this would not be most people's preferred Hulk movie and I totally get why. Just my two cents.

Hi, The Question. I was going to post here days ago, buit didn't feel like it. In short, I was gonna post almopst the same as you did, as U see the Hulk as a Frakenstein/Werewolf/Jekyll & Hyde type of movie and character and not a superhero. Even when he can save the day or fight an evil character, I don't see Hulk as someone Banner turns into just when the world needs it and does exactly what's necessary, as superheroes normally do. And it should be dark and not happy at all.

In other words, I completely agree on almost everything. Hulk being Bruce's anger and not a complete different entity.

The only thing I disagree on is that action could be in the movie without ruining the tone. As long as it's not the average Hollywood action style.

But no, it won't happen because that's not the way Marvel is making their movies and it would be a risk too big to take, but that would be the ideal Hulk movie to me too. Glad to see someone thinks the same about the subject. Cheers.

No, I wouldn't prefer that, because The Fugitive is about a guy who was wrongfully arrested for a murder trying to find the real killer, not about a guy who transforms into a monster and breaks things when he's angry.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

I loved Ang's movie. I didn't like the comic book panels.

As did I.

The CB panels were...ehh, but it was something nobody tried at the time, so I respect him for it.

 

[Tg11]

The perfect Hulk movie would have to have the psychological aspect similar to the 2003 Hulk but also have that action and edge/grit as well as the villain that the 2008 Hulk had so a mixture of both, with Ruffalo as Bruce Banner/Hulk but as for Betty Ross I would go with Michelle Monaghan and as Thunderbolt Ross General Ross I would go with Jeff Bridges even though Bridges already played a Marvel character before playing Obadiah Stane in the first Iron Man he would be perfect as General Ross

 

[Tg11]

And of course then Hulk/Banner he would have to be on the run from SHIELD/Hydra but also on the run from Ross too but then Banner is found wherever he goes by Nick Fury Sam Jackson's character but also by Black Widow Scarlett's character

 

[Wildcard]

I really want us to get past the "man on the run" theme. Way more to Banner & Hulk than just constantly being a man / monster on the run. I know that's been a central theme to the character for years, but it's not the only theme.

Hulk has appeared in over 5,000 comic books. Let's get more creative.

 

[metaphysician]

I really want us to get past the "man on the run" theme. Way more to Banner & Hulk than just constantly being a man / monster on the run. I know that's been a central theme to the character for years, but it's not the only theme.

Hulk has appeared in over 5,000 comic books. Let's get more creative.

Agreed, which is part of why I really hope they don't revert to a "hunted by Cardboard Cutout Ross" plotline. Doubly so because the Hulk who became a fandom favorite in Avengers wasn't "desperate on the run" Hulk. It was "finally finding a place and smashing in the name of heroism" Hulk.

 

[Wildcard]

Exactly! Plus, the whole purpose of the Red Hulk storyline was to get General Ross into a new medium. He had been hunting the Hulk for 40 years, something that was definitely getting old. So to go right back to that would be tiresome and boring. If we get Ross again, he needs to be Red Hulk again.

Considering the ending of TIH with Ross in the bar & what not, it'd make perfect sense going into the next movie. The disgraced General who turns himself into a beast similar to his rival to get revenge on him only to later become a hero himself and bury the feud.

There's a lot of territory to explore with the Hulk. That's why it baffles me as to why Joss Whedon feels the Hulk talking is "ridiculous" when his most current incarnation talks & is one of the greatest minds on Earth (Doc Green). Not to mention there now being a talking raccoon and tree within the MCCU.

It's time to move past Hulk being just a monster. Talking isn't going to make him any less badass...unless you have horrible writers on board. If not, I feel like the Hulk should start to be just as verbal as the other characters, both in his own movies & in the crossover films.

It'll be the ultimate next step into pushing Hulk into a wider audience. Continuing the mindless "smash and bash" approach is what's dissuading people when it comes to his solo films.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

That, and making movies about a man who doesn't want to be there. I know how much of a burden Hulk is to Bruce, but not every single Hulk story ever made is about Bruce, on the run, hating every minute of his life.

 

[KevanG]

I'd like to see something like the end of the Peter Davidson run where he finally comes to terms with the Hulk in his own way, he has a job working for the 'good guys' and helping where he can, bringing the Hulk to bear when needed and he's with Betty. He has a stable, happy life and he's content.

Possibly something along the lines of the Leader is the villain, someone who could manipulate Hulk into doing things because he kidnapped Betty, Banner and Hulk both work together to accomplish everything, they get forced to steal certain items so the Leader can make... I dunno, a gamma bomb or something, they manage to stop him but Betty gets blasted by Gamma Rays and dies. For the obligitory smashing scenes, during the part where Betty gets kidnapped, the Leader sends down some of his putty men (whatever they're called that the Hulk can't just smash) or some giant robots to keep him busy, then later when he steals things for the Leader he runs into Iron Man or something and they duke it out, Banner is Hulked out so he can't explain why he's stealing so they duke it out until Hulk can get away, then at the end we have the Leader sending out Gamma mutates to take down the Hulk.

Then something huge happens, like in those issues where Betty dies, he doesn't go on the run at the end from somebody. He leaves because he just doesn't want to be there anymore because she isn't there. Nothing is forcing him to leave, he just goes because he doesn't have anything left to hold him there.

Not my perfect movie but close enough for off the top of my head.

 

[Urich Leeds]

A middle ground between the Ang Lee film (which I think got the tone and story right), and the TIH (which got the action and characterizations right) would be my perfect Hulk film.

That said, I think both were really great. And I wouldn't mind getting a new Hulk film thats like one more than the other.

 

[Wildcard]

That, and making movies about a man who doesn't want to be there. I know how much of a burden Hulk is to Bruce, but not every single Hulk story ever made is about Bruce, on the run, hating every minute of his life.

Exactly. Even in the comics of recent years he's had a plethora of stories that don't revolve around him being a fugitive. With it now being a world full of superheroes, he needs to be more than that.

That's where personas like Gray Hulk/Joe Fixit, Merged Hulk & Doc Green come into play.

Take your pick Marvel.

 

[DrCosmic]

The perfect Hulk movie is a Pixar film.

Everyone agrees that we want to see Hulk doing things that aren't fighting. We want to see Hulk as a person. He's a big CGI creature. The most requested storyline was Planet Hulk, even after it was repeatedly shot down. That's a big cartoon, John Carter of Mars, with Jake'Sully, Ney'tiri and Sinestro instead of John Carter, Dejah Thoris and generic Bad Guy.

It can't be made of course. You see what the budget looks like with 12 minutes of Hulk, and it's no wonder these films that are essentially live action cartoons are overbloated failures or blank check movies with a very simplistic tale. This is because you have live action film makers trying to make a cartoon, which is not what they were trained for.

This is on top of the appeal of the Hulk right now lies on Mark Ruffalo's shoulders, who is almost a non-factor in a story like Planet Hulk. Some fans want the more Greg Pak inspired noble savage angry-in-name-only Hulk who handles his super powered anger better than most normal people, because he's the ultimate power fantasy of justified anger and limitless power to punish wrongdoers. The Hyde/Wolfman paradigm holds no value for such people, and they think of it as the noob version of Hulk, like Iron Man's gold suit, something before Hulk came into his own. On the other hand, for an audience who doesn't connect with that more adolescent power fantasy, such a Hulk can be very boring, even redundant with Thor. Certainly no credible filmmaker and accomplished actor are going to be able to devote two years of his life and rally hundreds of adults around such a character.

To satisfy both audiences - which if that's not the goal then Ang Lee's Hulk was already the perfect Hulk movie - to satisfy both, Hulk does need a climactic action sequence that serves as cathartic destruction as well as a tragic release of what's been building up the whole time. It symbolizes the Hulk winning the struggle with Banner, making both thereby more interesting to the two 'sides' of the fanbase. In the middle you can have Hulk do a more heroic moment, but for Hulk, heroism is not rewarded, but hated, making Banner more interesting. You can have Hulk fight to restrain himself from what seems like righteous justice because even getting back at the bad guys comes at a heavy cost.

These kind of character beats through a CGI Character are no mean feat. You basically need someone who can do with these guys what Pixar did with the equally mute Wall-E, Mama Bear from Brave, or even some of the Toys in Toy Story. Alternately, you can let Andy Serkis direct it, and let him go crazy and prove what we all secretly know, but no one but Marvel would possibly be willing to sink $150M on it.

 

[The Question]

Honestly, if I were in charge of a Planet Hulk movie, I'd definitely rewrite it to include waaaaaaaay more Bruce Banner.

 

[DrCosmic]

I probably would too... but that makes it a very different movie from the gladiator story we had. It becomes Planet Hulk In Name Only, imho, not that this is a bad thing. The rest of the MCU has gotten plenty of mileage on that tank.

 

[The Question]

I probably would too... but that makes it a very different movie from the gladiator story we had. It becomes Planet Hulk In Name Only, imho, not that this is a bad thing. The rest of the MCU has gotten plenty of mileage on that tank.

I mean, I'll be honest, I thought Planet Hulk was kind of lame.

I'd probably keep the gladiatorial angle to some degree, but I'd want to go for more of a Kubrikian "2001" vibe to the alien stuff than "John Carter of Mars."

 

[Rishi]

The extended / original cut of Incredible Hulk was closer to perfect than anything we've seen so far... minus a bad gag or two.

 

[BarryAllen]

I want Rick Jones introduced into the MCU

 

[kedrell]

^Hell yes.


Adrian Pasdar is a much better Talbot than Josh Lucas ever was. He'd do well and he's already in the MCU. I want Cary St. Lawrence somewhere as well. I once thought the lady soldier Blonsky knocks out in TIH was her but I guess not. And I definitely want Ross dialed back from the full on villain schtick. He's the Hulk's J Jonah Jameson. An antagonist and a jerk sure but not a villain or criminal. And Hulk ideally should be parting ways with the Avengers as it never made much sense for him to be a long term team player. He's the original superhero-antihero. He belongs on the team about as much as Spider-man...that is to say, not at all. Though he should definitely keep bumping into them from time to time, just as Spidey should.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Ang Lee showed a more complex interpretation, fans hated it. Smashing and bashing it is.

Hence the reason I often get annoyed with casual fans. Many of the criticisms I heard about Ang's Hulk was that it was "too dark" and "not enough smashing". If fans can accept a brooding tone from the likes of Batman and Blade, why not accept that tone in story about a man with a splintered psyche who turns into the avatar of rage?

 

[MbJ]

Rick Jones would be difficult just because kid sidekick characters have garnered a bad reputation. They even had to turn Bucky into an adult soldier with no costume.

 

[BarryAllen]

Rick Jones would be difficult just because kid sidekick characters have garnered a bad reputation. They even had to turn Bucky into an adult soldier with no costume.

They could easily just make Rick a young adult instead of a teenager.

 

[kedrell]

Rick Jones would be difficult just because kid sidekick characters have garnered a bad reputation. They even had to turn Bucky into an adult soldier with no costume.

Rick's always been more Jimmy Olsen than Robin or Bucky, at least when it comes his relationship with the Hulk.

 

[kedrell]

Ang Lee showed a more complex interpretation, fans hated it. Smashing and bashing it is.

Because he basically took PAD's brilliant ideas and mutilated them to fit his and Shamus's own ideas(which were bad). It's not that on it's own he made the worst big budget superhero movie ever made(though I'd say that's where he ended up anyway) but he took a beloved IP with lots of great stuff and then shoved all of his own crap into it and that was greatly inferior. Absobing dad? Repressed memories as oppossed to a repressed personality/emotions? Nanobots? Hulk poodle? Shafting Rick Jones? Hulk isn't his own character in the best Jeckyl & Hyde sense? Clearly these are guys who didn't get the material they were adapting. At least TIH is a great translation of the TV show. Letterrier & Norton GOT the TV show. Now granted, I think it was a mistake to even try and make a Hulk movie in 2003 given the technological limitations of the time. Hell, even today it'd be extremely difficult, though not impossible.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

It's not that on it's own he made the worst big budget superhero movie ever made

Yeaaah that title belongs to TASM2.

but he took a beloved IP with lots of great stuff and then shoved all of his own crap into it and that was greatly inferior. Repressed memories as oppossed to a repressed personality/emotions? Nanobots? Hulk poodle?

These were all things that have happened or have been explored in some medium in the comics, so where you get this idea that this is all made up is beyond me....