The Prequel Trilogy General Discussion and Appreciation Thread

[HarryOsborn]

Well what you consider good or bad might differ from what others think though, so

Hiding behind the subjective nature of art is really something of a copout. You're not giving any reason why a work is good besides that you say so.

You look at the OT and story is driven by constant small adventures. The heroes are always in action, doing something, with increasingly greater stakes on the line. We also see the evil of the Empire first hand with the destruction of Alderaan, Vader chocking the soldier with his bare hands, the beheading of Ben, the incineration of Owen and Beru, the torture of Leia, etc.

The PT largely consisted of various scenes of two or three characters walking slowly, pausing, and talking. We also never see the evil of the Sith or the Federation. Qui-Gon was the only significant death until Sith when Padme dies of a "loss of will". It's not that there weren't brilliant ideas in the trilogy, but they just were executed nearly as well as they could have been.

I have a feeling the prequels will go down in history similarly to the Next Generation Star Trek films, or even the mid 2000's X-Men films (X3 and Origins). Overshadowed by the films that preceded and succeeded them in the saga.

 

[BatLobster]

Almost every film has symbolism, some is well used, other is not, i feel like it's more worth analysing that in good movies than bad ones.

I disagree in this case, because the prequels are part of a larger body of work and even if they aren't the best executed movies on their own, for me analysis of them has led to a greater appreciation of Lucas' ambitions with the entire saga and actually makes me love the OT movies even more and see them in new ways, which can't be a bad thing. That doesn't mean I'm saying the movies are GOOD because of this, so I'm not saying this as a copout, I simply find them worth taking a deeper look at because I love the mythology of Star Wars.

Re-posting this for folks who may be interested:

http://www.starwarsringtheory.com/

 

[Lord]

I disagree in this case, because the prequels are part of a larger body of work and even if they aren't the best executed movies on their own, for me analysis of them has led to a greater appreciation of Lucas' ambitions with the entire saga and actually makes me love the OT movies even more and see them in new ways, which can't be a bad thing. That doesn't mean I'm saying the movies are GOOD because of this, so I'm not saying this as a copout, I simply find them worth taking a deeper look at because I love the mythology of Star Wars.

Re-posting this for folks who may be interested:

http://www.starwarsringtheory.com/

Of course, you're free to analyside whatever film you want, but i personaly feel like it's more worth analysing films that are actualy great and whose layers were well executed. With the Prequels i feel more and more disappointed by how much potential was wasted, and it's kinda sad that most of the fanbase would rather ignore some of the great ideas the art department came up for these films than ever use them in any new film.

 

[Bim]

Of course, art is sucjective. However, when a movie or book follow a certain formula or previously extablished sequence, you can evaluate weather you think it works or not, the Prequels for example are plagued with awful dialogue and things that contradict the canon, as well as various gaps of logic.

You can enjoy something, but also need to keep some perspective while judging its quality, for example, i didn't realy like Lincoln, but do not deny it's a realy good film, it simply wasn't my cup of tea, on the other hand, i enjoyed Chronicles of Riddick a lot, but it's not a very good movie. Cinema isn't just entertainment, it's also art.

The original star wars aren't perfect either, but they were very well executed for their time and are generaly pretty consistent (even though there are some weird bits like Luke and Leia being brothers).

I don't deny there are elements of briliance in the Prequels, but that's what makes them even more disapointing for me, all the people working behind the concepts came up with some astounding ideas, but they were unlucky that Lucas chose to use them the wrong way, Maul and Grievous being some prime examples.

When i was growing up, i actualy liked the Prequels, Episode III was my favorite SW film for a while, but looking back, i can't realy say they were good movies, and they haven't aged very well either.

Again, that's a matter of opinion. You're disappointed in how some ideas were used and executed, while others enjoy such ideas. That's life. We're not going to agree on this, and i'm more than fine with it. I'm not interested in changing or convincing anyone here of anything.

If you dont like talking about the symbolism in the PT because you find them flawed, that's cool. But if there's others who do want to discuss them in this manner, that's fine too. I posted the name of a book i think it's very interesting in this sense for those of us who love that stuff, and the PT is filled with them. You obviously dont have to read it.

Hiding behind the subjective nature of art is really something of a copout. You're not giving any reason why a work is good besides that you say so.

You look at the OT and story is driven by constant small adventures. The heroes are always in action, doing something, with increasingly greater stakes on the line. We also see the evil of the Empire first hand with the destruction of Alderaan, Vader chocking the soldier with his bare hands, the beheading of Ben, the incineration of Owen and Beru, the torture of Leia, etc.

The PT largely consisted of various scenes of two or three characters walking slowly, pausing, and talking. We also never see the evil of the Sith or the Federation. Qui-Gon was the only significant death until Sith when Padme dies of a "loss of will". It's not that there weren't brilliant ideas in the trilogy, but they just were executed nearly as well as they could have been.

I have a feeling the prequels will go down in history similarly to the Next Generation Star Trek films, or even the mid 2000's X-Men films (X3 and Origins). Overshadowed by the films that preceded and succeeded them in the saga.

The thing is, i dont think i need to explain why i like something. I'm obviously talking about MY views, not generalizing or stating my views or opinions as fact, or imposing them on those who disagree with me. I'm not hiding behind anything. I like the PT. They work for me. I dont need to sit here and justify that. I'm not sitting here demanding people explain to me why they dont. If they dont like it, i'm fine with it. I dont need justifications or reasons. You want to call this a copout, go ahead, my friend. Honestly, i'm fine lol. You're free to think whatever you want. I'm not here to defend or attack anyone's position.

And i'm not going to go into a back and forth regarding this. My god, who knew me posting a name of a book i thought interesting would cause this much drama

I go back to discussing and appreciating the PT, which is what this thread is obviously about.

 

[HarryOsborn]

The thing is, i dont think i need to explain why i like something. I'm obviously talking about MY views, not generalizing or stating my views or opinions as fact, or imposing them on those who disagree with me. I'm not hiding behind anything. I like the PT. They work for me. I dont need to sit here and justify that. I'm not sitting here demanding people explain to me why they dont. If they dont like it, i'm fine with it. I dont need justifications or reasons. You want to call this a copout, go ahead, my friend. Honestly, i'm fine lol. You're free to think whatever you want. I'm not here to defend or attack anyone's position.

And i'm not going to go into a back and forth regarding this. My god, who knew me posting a name of a book i thought interesting would cause this much drama

I go back to discussing and appreciating the PT, which is what this thread is obviously about.

You don't have to explain why you like it, you're 100% right. Commenting and saying "It's my opinion their good so what you say doesn't matter" is equally unnecessary as we don't have to explain why we don't like them. If you don't want to discuss why you think they're good with reasons, then when someone says something negative just ignore it. No one can change your opinion and there's a ton of people who share it with you. So if all you have to say is essentially "i don't care what you're saying and there's nothing you can do about it", then why not just post about something else?

You sounded pretty excited about that book with the themes, why not keep going with that- or if you wanted to rebuttal Lord tell him about some of themes. The saga vs OT only argument is getting old. It seems like a lot of people on the PT side just like to say "because I said so"/really just like anything with the Star Wars label and an equal number on the OT side essentially hates everything new- and will most likely not like the sequels either.

Anyway that's just my two cents.

 

[HarryOsborn]

Of course, you're free to analyside whatever film you want, but i personaly feel like it's more worth analysing films that are actualy great and whose layers were well executed. With the Prequels i feel more and more disappointed by how much potential was wasted, and it's kinda sad that most of the fanbase would rather ignore some of the great ideas the art department came up for these films than ever use them in any new film.

This. Each film has a lot of brilliance, actually the original notes on the early drafts for the Phantom Menace- that featured Qui-Gon only on Courescant actually sounded much better than the film we got. Jar-Jar was articulate, and gave a compelling speech at the end, Anakin was able to get through the blockade back into Naboo by using the force to excite light speed within the planet's atmosphere. Some really good stuff!

I've been very interested in the development on the prequels. Revenge of the Sith in particular is the one I'm most interested in. It seems to be the film people stood up to Lucas on the most, in my opinion why it turned out the best. Streamlining Anakin's turn into a mission to save Padme vs being tricked by the Emperor makes his fall so much more tragic. People complain way too much about how he chokes her at the end, saying it was counter productive, but think of all he did. He just killed children to save her and he believes she's brought someone to kill him for his sacrifices. I also would love to know more about the scene with Qui-Gon's ghost on Uttapau that was in the early scripts. As well as Anakin's red lightsaber. So many questions in general.

 

[dax]

It was kinda implied that Yoda was not a fighter in the original trilogy, and with that, most simply guessed that was the reason he never went in to face the Emperor, in the prequels, he is a fighter, and with how close his fight against te emperor was, it's a bit odd how he simply left for the Dagobah system and waited 20 years instead of trying to figure out a way to beat Sidious.

There was no indication that Yoda was never a fighter in the original trilogy. Just because he said, "Wars not make one great", it doesn't mean that he never wielded a lightsaber before. He did train Jedi for 8 centuries and part of that training involves on how to wield a lightsaber because none of the Jedi taught themselves. After Vader helped the Emperor and the Empire wipe out the entire Jedi Order, I doubt that Yoda would just tuck tail and run because he would want to stop the massacre from continuing which is where his fight with the Emperor comes in.

How does it explain why Palpatine wasn't around to save Vader? It's not as if he was babysiting him most of the time, Vader could have been hurt or died many other times during the original trilogy when Palpatine wasn't around, it's not farfetched to think he would face Obi-Wan alone during one of his hunts for Jedi.

But in the original trilogy, there was nobody around who is powerful enough to threaten Vader's life and Luke has not yet gotten to that point. Plus, at this point, Obi-wan is too old and out of practice to challege Vader like he used to when they were both younger. In Episode 3, there were still some Jedi around despite the Order 66 massacre still going on and their existence is a threat to both Vader and the Emperor. If the Emperor really believed that Vader could handle Obi-wan alone, then he wouldn't have ordered a shuttle for an immediate takeoff to Mustafar.

The questions answered by the Prequels weren't needed to be answered, most of them were already answered by simple logic, but the prequels themselves opened many more questions, like why the council didn't send more Jedi in the end of Episode I to fight Maul, or why they felt the need to bring Anakin too, or why they never went back to save Anakin's mom from slavery, etc.

Those questions can be answered too.

For question 1, none of the Jedi council believed that the Sith are back nor that the fighter (Darth Maul) whom Qui-Gon faced on Tatooine is a Sith lord so they sent him and Obi-wan back alone. For question 2, Qui-Gon brought Anakin to Coruscant so the council felt that it is Qui-Gon's responsibility to watch over the boy and on question 3, as Shmi pointed out, "the Republic doesn't exist out here." The Jedi don't have any jurisdiction on planets not recognized by the Republic which is evident in the Clone Wars cartoon when the Jedi weren't allowed to go to Mandalore to stop Darth Maul and the Death Watch clan from launching an assault against Dutchess Satine and her people. Even if the Jedi wanted to, the Senate wouldn't allow it.

 

[BatLobster]

Of course, you're free to analyside whatever film you want, but i personaly feel like it's more worth analysing films that are actualy great and whose layers were well executed. With the Prequels i feel more and more disappointed by how much potential was wasted, and it's kinda sad that most of the fanbase would rather ignore some of the great ideas the art department came up for these films than ever use them in any new film.

I think in most cases I'd agree with you, but I really do view Star Wars as more than just a film series, I see it as the ultimate modern mythology of our time and I see each film as one chapter in a larger book. You don't have to love every chapter of a book in order to put a book down after reading it and feel like it was an incredible story that was well worth your time.

If the prequels were the first three films to come out and there was no broader context, then I wouldn't care to analyze them. But as a fan of the Star Wars mythology, I think the layers they add to the saga make the original trilogy (the actual great films in the series) that much richer and more fascinating with the context it brings them.

I guess it all comes down to whether you're willing to view the saga almost as a piece of text rather than just a movie.

 

[Brem]

Apparently, I AM the only person - at least here - who has a favorable opinion of AotC, which is a shame.

Nah, it has always been my favourite of the Star Wars films. t: I love a good detective movie, and while I could have gone for more Obi-Wan investigation and less Anakin/Padme, I can live with the moments I'm not as keen on - but don't necessarily dislike - and enjoy it for the fun that it is. But I think Bim said something that I kind of agree with some posts back - I don't often find myself going out of my way to number the films from best to worst. I like them all based on the mood I am in, and I love them all about the same.

And frankly, once people start using the same redundant arguments to try and persuade me - Gods only know why - that I shouldn't like the prequels, or Attack of the Clones, I just pass by it. It's become extremely boring.

For anyone interested, there's this cool book called The Star Wars Heresies: The Themes, Symbols and Philosophies of Episodes I, II and III, by Paul F. McDonald that makes for an interesting read. There's lots of symbolism in the PT that just flew past me, and this book helped me become aware of them. Very nice read if you have the time t:

I might have a look at that at some point. I just bought two books and the UCS X-Wing though, so nothing else for a while.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Episodes 1&2 are bad/meh but Episode 3 was actually good in my opinion. I just bought the Star Wars Saga Blu Ray box set ( from 2011) and watched Episode 1 last night. I can't believe how many racist stereotypes were in that movie. Jar Jar Binks being a black slave, Watto ( the bug looking alien that owned Anakin and his mom) having some weird Arab accent, and those two grey bug eye aliens working with Palpatine having stereotypical Asian accents.

 

[Batsfan1]

Episodes 1&2 are bad/meh but Episode 3 was actually good in my opinion. I just bought the Star Wars Saga Blu Ray box set ( from 2011) and watched Episode 1 last night. I can't believe how many racist stereotypes were in that movie. Jar Jar Binks being a black slave, Watto ( the bug looking alien that owned Anakin and his mom) having some weird Arab accent, and those two grey bug eye aliens working with Palpatine having stereotypical Asian accents.

Didn't all the gungans sound similar to Jar Jar? How was he a slave? I don't remember that.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Didn't all the gungans sound similar to Jar Jar? How was he a slave? I don't remember that.

He effectively gets sold to Liam Neeson as one....

 

[C. Lee]

Just thought I would drop by. I have fun watching the prequels. There are things I hate in them and things I love in them. But I have fun overall when watching them.

 

[Thoix]

He effectively gets sold to Liam Neeson as one....

No he wasn't. Qui-Gon claimed Jar Jar owed him a life debt, because Qui-Gon save Jar Jar's life, and he claimed a navigator was needed to get to Theed. Boss Nass allowed Jar Jar to leave for these reasons or else he would be punished for returning to the city after being banished. Jar Jar could have stayed or left Qui-Gon's company at anytime but decided to stick with him instead.

 

[Bim]

I did a little marathon during my vacation of all six movies (split on 3 days though lol), and i gotta say i still enjoy these. I love watching the blu-rays because everything just looks so clear (ROTS is the one that looks best out of the PT imo).

I still love this saga. Looking forward to Episode 7 adding more awesome moments to what we already have t:

 

[Thoix]

I did a little marathon during my vacation of all six movies (split on 3 days though lol), and i gotta say i still enjoy these. I love watching the blu-rays because everything just looks so clear (ROTS is the one that looks best out of the PT imo).

I still love this saga. Looking forward to Episode 7 adding more awesome moments to what we already have t:

I did a two day marathon of all six films just a few weeks ago and I too still enjoy them all. I think ROTS easily looks the best of all the Blu-rays. I do love the set, but I could see room for improvement in terms of picture quality (color correction, DNR) on the other five films. ROTS's audio could use a bit of improvement as well.

Here's to hoping TFA is good and add to the saga. t:

 

[Bim]

I think ROTS easily looks the best of all the Blu-rays.

Yeah, agreed.

For me what will make or break TFA is the story. I hope it sents up a nice story that pulls me in and makes me care for the new characters, cause i obviously already care for the old ones hehe

I wonder what Williams will do in terms of the score though. Gosh, new music for my ears!

 

[Thoix]

Yeah, agreed.

For me what will make or break TFA is the story. I hope it sents up a nice story that pulls me in and makes me care for the new characters, cause i obviously already care for the old ones hehe

I wonder what Williams will do in terms of the score though. Gosh, new music for my ears!

The more I see the new characters the more interested in them I become, but I really hope the full trailer sells them and the new story to me because so far I'm not as excited for TFA as I should be.

I really can't wait to hear the big new theme for the film. As great as it is to hear similar music in front of the teasers, I really want some new, spectacular material that has been produced with each film in the series.

 

[Bim]

So far i'm intrigued due to that remnants of the Empire vs New Republic aspect of it, because let's face it, there must be some conflict for things to get going lol. But i hope there's originality in its execution and not just a rehash of Empire vs Rebelion with a different name. The stakes must be higher.

I relate, i'm not as crazy hyped as i have been in the past, but hopefully i'll get there in the coming months. It's Star Wars after all and i love the first six movies, so my odds of loving this one are pretty high t:

I'm hyped for the new music too. Cant wait to see what Williams did this time around.

BTW, HBO Plus is having a SW marathon right now, ESB is on. The PT is showing after ROTJ

 

[Thoix]

BTW, HBO Plus is having a SW marathon right now, ESB is on. The PT is showing after ROTJ

I don't think I could watch them on HBO because they usually present anything to fill the screen. I wouldn't be able to stand watching any of the films with part of their picture cut off.

 

[Bim]

Re-posting this for folks who may be interested:

http://www.starwarsringtheory.com/

I finally got around to reading this lol, and i gotta say, some interesting stuff there to ponder. I think the book The Star Wars Heresies: The Themes, Symbols and Philosophies of Episodes I, II and III, by Paul F. McDonald i posted about before can add even more depth to this article.

I love reading this kind of stuff when it comes to Star Wars, so thanks a lot for sharing that t:

 

[Brem]

Admittedly, the seemingly bland and uninspired opening of Menace doesn’t pack quite the same punch as A New Hope’s and instead leaves one feeling a little underwhelmed, to say the least. The problem, though, is that it may not be the fairest of comparisons. Because something really interesting happens when you compare Menace’s opening to that of Return of the Jedi’s.

I never realised that about the opening of Jedi and Phantom Menace. Oddly, I never even found the opening of Phantom Menace bland. I liked it. It was mysterious, I was always curious and it isn't long before the action kicks off. Maybe I just have low standards, but still. t: It still fills me with warm fuzzy feelings.

 

[Bim]

Yeah. I had no issues with the opening in TPM either. I love the two hooded jedi walking in t:.

 

[Brem]

"I have a bad feeling about this."

"I don't feel anything.. But I do have a particular set of skills I have acquired over a long career!"

Yeah, that's all I want to hear now when I watch it, but I love that opening. Even as a kid, I thought oh man, do not mess with the Jedi, when Qui-Gon was cutting open the door.

Thinking about it, putting Episode I and II together, that make a damn good mystery - to me. Even though Phantom Menace has its lighter tone, there's this odd darker undertone there, knowing what is coming up, knowing that Palpatine is slithering his way into the senate and that the Battle for Naboo is just one smaller piece of a grander puzzle, setting up the Clone Wars. In a way, that is the first minor battle opening up that road.

I've said it many times, people can hate them as much as they want, but in the grander scheme they still send chills down my spine with those little moments that you know are rippling toward the Empire and now Force Awakens.

t: And oooh, Rebels finally out on Blu-Ray here on Monday! Cannot wait.

 

[Bim]

I love how the PT just starts showing us what many, myself included, wanted to see: jedi in their prime in action. You could see why they had gained such a reputation that the neimodians didnt even want to into the same room with them lol. My mind wandered picturing all of their adventures together (Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, i mean lol)

TPM sets up so many things, but of course i agree. Deep down there's darkness lurking with the sith getting ready to reveal themselves after so many years of waiting. Sidious had started playing his game very early.

To me the jedi were doomed since TPM, as soon as Palpatine became Chancelor. They didnt stand a chance after that, no matter what they did.