The "realism" thread

[BlackLantern]

seriously....if I want opinions on ****e punching, I'll ask Frank Miller

 

[roach]

Yes, listen to the guy who made the Spirit.

yeah and The Dark Knight Returns, Daredevil:Born Again, Batman Year One, 300 and Sin City

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Isn't Batman Year one more realistic than anything Nolan did?

 

[JAK®]

Isn't Batman Year one more realistic than anything Nolan did?

Yeah, but mostly because it's told from Gordon's point of view. There's nothing in the story that deliberately puts Batman in a more realistic setting.

 

[roach]

Yeah, but mostly because it's told from Gordon's point of view. There's nothing in the story that deliberately puts Batman in a more realistic setting.

and mostly due to the fact that Year One was about Batman ousting the crime families...once that was done the crazies moved in

 

[Chris Wallace]

Yes, listen to the guy who made the Spirit.

Bad as that movie was, it doesn't nullify his statement.

 

[BlackLantern]

I like Batman vs. The Mob....you get to see a bit more actual detective work from Batman

 

[El Payaso]

Frank Miller:
"People are attempting to bring a superficial reality to superheroes which is rather stupid. They work best as the flamboyant fantasies they are. I mean, these are characters that are broad and big. I don't need to see sweat patches under Superman's arms. I want to see him fly."

Clearly Miller didn't see Superman II.

 

[BlackLantern]

ha...I kind of agree but I also think there needs to be a balance...Iron Man works because the "tech" of it fits in nicely with its setting

some movies just ram the origin and stuff in there and it seems disjointed

 

[some guy]

In the Thor trailer, they go into this thing about how magic is science in Asgard, with the intent of "rationalizing" the Norse gods. It kinda bugs me because I don't think the rationalization is necessary. Just say that Thor is a god from Asgard; we don't need to have a "logical" explanation for it, it just is. It's the real world suddenly confronted with something unnatural, that's the story. It can be as simple as that.

 

[JAK®]

In the Thor trailer, they go into this thing about how magic is science in Asgard, with the intent of "rationalizing" the Norse gods. It kinda bugs me because I don't think the rationalization is necessary. Just say that Thor is a god from Asgard; we don't need to have a "logical" explanation for it, it just is. It's the real world suddenly confronted with something unnatural, that's the story. It can be as simple as that.

I think it's more to do with the fact that this is taking place in the same world as Iron Man. Suddenly introducing magic in a world where there has been none before is usually seen as bad storytelling. At least they're just rationalising the magic rather than outright replacing it.

 

[LOBO3315a]

Maybe they should have done Dr Strange to preface it.....

Or had Doom using sorcery as well as science when he fought the FF.

 

[roach]

To be honest I dont think they needed to explain magic....the moment Fury asked Tony if he thought he was the only superhero this let me know that there are more than armored people in this universe...
...let it go and now you have another point of contention between Thor and IM...magic vs technology

 

[kedrell]

I think it's more to do with the fact that this is taking place in the same world as Iron Man. Suddenly introducing magic in a world where there has been none before is usually seen as bad storytelling. At least they're just rationalising the magic rather than outright replacing it.

Even in the comics they've always sort of rationalized magic a bit, what with the whole "it's merely manipulating Eldrich energy" thing. In other words, a pseudonym for stuff we don't understand but works anyway.

 

[BlackLantern]

well that works for those of us that read comics, and willing to suspend disbelief to a degree...not so much for the GA....these people are ******s, remember?

 

[roach]

well that works for those of us that read comics, and willing to suspend disbelief to a degree...not so much for the GA....these people are ******s, remember?

where are we getting our information that if the GA went to see a movie called Thor they couldnt suspend disbelief in magic????
No one questioned magic in Clash of the Titans.
...nor the Harry Potter movies

 

[BlackLantern]

where are we getting our information that if the GA went to see a movie called Thor they couldnt suspend disbelief in magic????
No one questioned magic in Clash of the Titans.
...nor the Harry Potter movies

****es they are all stupid ****es

o sorry....Frank Miller hijacked my post there

 

[roach]

****es they are all stupid ****es

o sorry....Frank Miller hijacked my post there

hey single moms need to make money too

 

[Rock Sexton]

Frank Miller:
"People are attempting to bring a superficial reality to superheroes which is rather stupid. They work best as the flamboyant fantasies they are. I mean, these are characters that are broad and big. I don't need to see sweat patches under Superman's arms. I want to see him fly."

A-freaking-men .....

 

[Rock Sexton]

maybe not "real", but there needs to be some sort of explanation that the GA will accept, unless you just start the movie with them in costume

remember, these are people that tune into American Idol and Jersey Shore in record numbers, they are not all that bright collectively

If the audience loves the character and buys into the story, they're not going to turn on the movie if the costume remains faithful to the comic renditions. They see the trailers, TV spots, and ads .... they know what they're going to see. I just think that we have this massive disparity now because of what a guy like Tim Burton used to do with Batman compared to what Nolan did with it.

 

[roach]

I'd just like to know where this notion comes from that the GA cant buy extraordinary things in movies. Actually I am inclined to believe that it stems from comic fans unused to comic movies being popular and feel the only way the GA will buy things is if it has to make it less fantastical.
I am not asking that movies become big budget remakes of the 60's Batman tv show but we need to lose the notion that anyone going to see Superman the movie is gonna flip out if he is faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.
Of all the superhero movies that have come out I have yet to hear about one that failed or succeeded because the costume was believeable/unbelievable.
Nor has one failed because the GA couldnt get behind the notion that fantasy movies(superhero movies are in this genre) should employ some sort of fantasy.
I doubt anyone would have walked out of Thor this summer saying:" Magic????But there was no magic in Iron man???"
Shouldnt these movies involve aspect that the other movies dont????
Why cant Iron Man involve technology and Thor involve magic??????
If and when Dr Strange comes out are they gonna explain away the magic in there too???

Sorry to rant and rave but this subject bothers me. Out of no where it seems everything has to be explained to the GA.

 

[roach]

and while we like to label the GA as dumb it is "US" the fanbois arguing that poor Peter Parker could never design a suit that complex while arguing the point for mechanical webshooters.....that we can believe that a bite from a genetically enhanced spider will give him the ability to stick to walls and a "spider-sense" but webspinners in his forearms was too much....

we'll deride the Raimi Green Goblin because he didnt look like the comics version but acted like him and then praise Ledger's Joker because he didnt look like the comics but acted like him

 

[some guy]

where are we getting our information that if the GA went to see a movie called Thor they couldnt suspend disbelief in magic????
No one questioned magic in Clash of the Titans.
...nor the Harry Potter movies

Exactly. A number of fantasy and horror movies have gotten away with not precisely explaining the nature of the unnatural. I don't see why it should be a big deal in a superhero film.

Personally, I myself have thought that the Asgardians could just be an immortal race of extraterrestrials, but no one had to spell that out for me. I think the reader/audience is very much capable of filling in the gaps for themselves.

On the other hand, any rationalization could perhaps be made only if the story does call for it. For instance, it's bound to come up in the Avengers film, when Iron Man and Thor come face-to-face.

 

[roach]

Thor should use JQ and Bendis explanation for the plot holes in Avengers Disassembled..."Its magic"

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

yeah and The Dark Knight Returns, Daredevil:Born Again, Batman Year One, 300 and Sin City

Can't argue with that (even if I don't care much for TDKR).

Bad as that movie was, it doesn't nullify his statement.

I know. I was kidding.

I just think this whole "move for realism thing" is overblown. Just like Roach said, Thor's using magic. A super-soldier will be battling a guy with a red skull for the Cosmic Cube. A year and a half from now, Thor will b going face to face with Iron Man. 5 months from now, a man will wield a powerful magic ring to save the universe. A costume change for Captain America does not instill a complete move for realism, but only a small level of it.

I see no realism conflict.