The "realism" thread

[Green Goblin]

IMO realism is cool.

For Spider-Man I found what Webb did with Spider-Man interesting.
The characters and setting are grounded yet the powers are still spectacular.
Webb showed us how Spider-Man would work in our world i.e a vigilante.
The way he swings is determined by things like gravity and often he will have to use his strength or run along sides of buildings to gain momentum.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I like a degree of realism, but Nolan took it too far

 

[BatmanGoesToRio]

I like a degree of realism, but Nolan took it too far

The problem is: The Nolanverse was inconsistent. They wanted to give BB a realistic feeling which worked fine - until they introduced the microwave emitter.
In TDK we get a non-permawhite Joker but a completely exaggerated Two-Face and again some sci-fi stuff like the sonar device.
Not to mention TDKR which was full of things that should not have worked in the Nolanverse.

You see, in SM1 Peter is developing his body fitting costume which is pretty unrealistic for a unwealthy teenager. But I don't care 'cause it fits the universe. I don't question the web shooters in TASM, too. But Nolan created a universe that doesn't follow its own rules.

 

[the last son]

I don't understand. Why can't you accept it with Nolan? Obviously his world was based on both. What's wrong with that? Who says movies have to follow the same rules? I'm not even a Nolan fan.

 

[metaphysician]

Every movie world has to actually follow its *own* rules, is the thing. It can be different than others, or reality, but it can't contradict its own.

 

[the last son]

Again you all say BB was realistic until the microwave. TDK was realistic until Two-Face. How many untils do you need before you understand maybe this movie is following it's own rules and not the rules set-up by viewers.

 

[sontin]

There is no "own rule" with the microwave emitter nonsense. Even in the context of the movie this device makes no sense.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

There is no "own rule" with the microwave emitter nonsense. Even in the context of the movie this device makes no sense.

That's true.

 

[S. Grundy]

I like a degree of realism, but Nolan took it too far

The problem wasn't the realism, it was that Nolan was so po-faced about it.

 

[roach]

I think the problem is that when ever we think of Batman in film he has to be this plausible realistic character. Even in the upcoming Batman vs Superman people are expecting Ben Affleck to be in a heavily armored suit.
Black Widow and Hawkeye fought an alien armada with not a shred of protection...Hawkeye did it with bare arms.

 

[S. Grundy]

Well, with Batman you kinda need the armored suit look. It kinda cuts down on the ridiculousness of the suit, sticking him in grey tights just really doesn't work on film.

 

[roach]

You kind of made my point. Batman is the only character that bears the brunt of comic book ridiculousness.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Well, with Batman you kinda need the armored suit look. It kinda cuts down on the ridiculousness of the suit, sticking him in grey tights just really doesn't work on film.

I still thank Tim Burton for that.

 

[Caekzor]

The problem is: The Nolanverse was inconsistent. They wanted to give BB a realistic feeling which worked fine - until they introduced the microwave emitter.
In TDK we get a non-permawhite Joker but a completely exaggerated Two-Face and again some sci-fi stuff like the sonar device.
Not to mention TDKR which was full of things that should not have worked in the Nolanverse.

They did happen in the Nolanverse, hence they did work.

Here, maybe this will help you understand Nolan's intentions.

The term “realism” is often confusing and used sort of arbitrarily. I suppose “relatable” is the word I would use. I wanted a world that was realistically portrayed, in that even though outlandish events may be taking place, and this extraordinary figure may be walking around these streets, the streets would have the same weight and validity of the streets in any other action movie.

Nolan's movies Batman Begins, The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises — films that are, for the filmmaker, extremely heightened and operatic.

"But it's about what I suppose you might term a cinematic reality," Nolan explains. "It's about giving the world of the films and the characters as much weight and validity as they would if your source material were not a comic book — if he was a character in another genre of film you were having to introduce to the audience for the first time and get them to believe it.

"That's what my use of the reality is about. It's not about a literal reality."

The fact that it's not real life is part of the appeal for Nolan about Gotham, its protector (Christian Bale) and the baddies he fights, from Liam Neeson's methodical Ra's al Ghul in Batman Begins to the late Heath Ledger's psychotic Joker in The Dark Knight to Tom Hardy's bruising Bane in The Dark Knight Rises.

They're removed from real life enough that "you can address dramatic elements that would be extremely uncomfortable in a realistic film in a way that lets the audience enjoy the experience and entertainment. "Hopefully it gives them a little something to think about and gets under their skin in some ways."

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

You kind of made my point. Batman is the only character that bears the brunt of comic book ridiculousness.

The Batman we want is the darker, serious version. If they were going with a goofier, more lighthearted approach like The Avengers then the grey tights would be fine. But most people don't want to see Batman taken in that direction.

After the Shumacher films, anything taking the character in that direction is going to face resistance.

 

[roach]

The Batman we want is the darker, serious version. If they were going with a goofier, more lighthearted approach like The Avengers then the grey tights would be fine. But most people don't want to see Batman taken in that direction.

After the Shumacher films, anything taking the character in that direction is going to face resistance.

I agree I want a darker, serious Batman...but that doesn't go hand in hand with a heavy rubber suit supposed to be armor. I am not asking for tights (Why is it everytime someone asks for no armor people think we're asking for tights?)

what Batman wears does not determine the tone and mood of the film....Batman had black heavy armor suits in all the Shumacher films.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

What Batman looks like does matter. Nobody would take the character seriously if he was running around dressed like Adam West.

This isn't unique to Batman. Badass characters need to look badass. It is why you'll never see Wolverine in bright yellow.

 

[roach]

This was the suit that was designed for Wolverine for The Wolverine. We don't know why they didnt use it but it wasnt because it was bright yellow.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Let's be glad they didn't use it. It looks horrible. Like a child's Halloween costume.

 

[Travesty]

I think it looks badass, if you ask me. I would've loved to see it.

 

[Human Torch]

I just want to see Batman in a stinking two-tone costume.Blue & Grey.I don't care what the heck it's made out of,as long as it's not freakin' solid black again!

 

[DACrowe]

There is no "own rule" with the microwave emitter nonsense. Even in the context of the movie this device makes no sense.

In what sense? Because people don't die (as they have water in their bodies) or do you mean it cannot exist?

This is a world where a billionaire can park military jets that work like choppers on top of skyscrapers without anyone noticing. It is not "realistic." Fans just overemphasize its verisimilitude because they are surprised by a superhero movie with any maturity.

 

[roach]

In what sense? Because people don't die (as they have water in their bodies) or do you mean it cannot exist?

This is a world where a billionaire can park military jets that work like choppers on top of skyscrapers without anyone noticing. It is not "realistic." Fans just overemphasize its verisimilitude because they are surprised by a superhero movie with any maturity.

Who would notice a copter thingie on the roof?

 

[Travesty]

The microwave emitter was said to have a "focused beam". So I think in the context of the movie, it does work.

 

[Shikamaru]

I think Nolan's approach/idea to realism in superhero films is the ideal approach. That being said, I don't think he executed that idea anywhere as well as the way he described his approach in words. While the realism isn't bad, it is also incosistent. Is it terribly inconsistent? No, at least not until TDKR (IMO). But it is inconsistent nonetheless.

Some examples (note that some of these I have absolutely no problem with but i still listed them because they're inconsistent nonetheless):
-Venom drug and Joker venom are too unrealistic but Scarecrow gas isn't.
-A guy can walk around with 4th degree burns that literally get to your bone (A guy with Two-Face's corrosive burns from the comics would genuinely have higher chances of survival) but white bleached skin is unrealistic.
-Batman wears thick bulky armor despite there being many fabric light materials in real life that offer the same level of protection without weighting him down. It gets worse when you realize that Wayne's Science Division is supposed to be 10 years ahead of everyone but Batman still runs around in dated bulky armor.
-Establishing the idea that Batman can't happen in the real world. That Batman is larger-than-life as much as other superheroes are despite no powers. Going as far as to have shaky fight scenes because "No one can comprehend how Batman would fight in real life because it's not possible". Then watering down Batman's abilities and stripping him of the "world's greatest detective" title because "it's not realistic for a human to achieve that".
-Permanently crippling your protagonist's leg[/] to show what effects being Batman would have on your body. Then having him recover from a broken back through the most unprofessional & unsanitary conditions while falling from ridiculous heights over and over again. How? Because "he has the will".
-Having a Batman that's been out of the game for 8 years with no recent re-training just go and beat Bane. Even in the comics where Bruce got his back fixed with a psychic, Bruce still had to retrain his body to get in shape to be Batman again.
-Venom drug? No can do. But we'll still have him small brick walls with his bare hands anyways.

As you can see, some of those examples are cases in which the comics were more realistic than Nolan's films. That's not to say the realism in TDKT isn't good, but I can't help but get annoyed when I hear people talk about how Nolan "perfectly crafted such a realistic Batman - the most realistic of them all!" Not the case. I love many aspects of Nolan's realism such as the tone, which I think is perfect. But there is room for improvement while still including more "comic booky" stuff.

For me, the best realism is the one in which the characters are just as heightened as they're meant to be where anything is possible BUT the world around these mythos - the way people react to superhumans, the way superhumans affect the world, etc. - is just as realistic as ours or at least almost as realistic as ours.

There is no reason why you can't have a world as realistic as the Nolan films/Batman: Year One with a grounded mob while still having characters lime Clayface/Mr. Freeze present and a "Batgod" that's the world's greatest detective.