The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul(discussion thread)

[David Rice]

Indeed, thank God for solicitations that spoil every story before they're even finished...

You don't have to read the descriptions and if the covers spoil something then just stop looking. I've had to do this with movie trailers ever since Spiderman.

You know what bothers me about this run though? There is no consistency with artists and writers.

Batman - good art and good writer.
Detective - bad art and good writer.
Nightwing - good art and good writer.
Robin - bad art and bad writer.

Why the hell couldn't they just run the story though Detective and Batman while keeping Kramer and Faucher on Detective?

 

[Aristotle]

You don't have to read the descriptions and if the covers spoil something then just stop looking.

Frankly, the fact that the Robin book exists post-Resurrection was enough of a spoiler. Not even Dan Didio would be dumb enough to publish a book with Damien Wayne in the starring role.

You know what bothers me about this run though? There is no consistency with artists and writers.

Yeah, but Morrison's plotting the whole thing, right? So the only difference in writing is scripters, which is a bit more negligible. In fact, it's almost preferable, as it allows each book to sort of keep a bit of its general tone and feel while still contributing to the larger narrative. But I won't argue that a consistent artist might be nice.

Batman - good art and good writer.
Detective - bad art and good writer.
Nightwing - good art and good writer.
Robin - bad art and bad writer.

The art on Tec isn't BAD so much as it isn't GREAT.

 

[David Rice]

Frankly, the fact that the Robin book exists post-Resurrection was enough of a spoiler. Not even Dan Didio would be dumb enough to publish a book with Damien Wayne in the starring role.

Yeah, but Morrison's plotting the whole thing, right? So the only difference in writing is scripters, which is a bit more negligible. In fact, it's almost preferable, as it allows each book to sort of keep a bit of its general tone and feel while still contributing to the larger narrative. But I won't argue that a consistent artist might be nice.

The art on Tec isn't BAD so much as it isn't GREAT.

True.

Yeah, scripters in Robin is pretty bad.

I just wish they would have kept in Batman and Detective.

 

[Miss Webb]

I doubt it, it looked like he got rejuvinated, ras was planing to use it to rejuvinate his body and he did therorize that the lazarus pits was an deriviation of the fountain. i think it did more then heal his physical injuries.

agree. May be why its called the fountain of LIFE. We now have our NEW GOD, people. Poof! Bat out da water...t:

 

[Ibn]

No it doesn't. "Son" implies ever so much more than "progeny." ****, you can be someone's ADOPTED son, but you can't exactly be their adopted progeny. "Son" is about the emotional connection, the bond between parent and child.

Progeny's just biological.

So Damian is his biological ............... "child"?

Admit it........ you just hate Damian.

 

[Aristotle]

So Damian is his biological ............... "child"?

Admit it........ you just hate Damian.

I do hate Damien. But there's a difference between just being biologically and genetically linked to someone, and having a familial bond. Tim Drake is Batman's son. Damien Wayne is just some worthless scrap of DNA.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Tim Drake shouldn't be Batman's son.

 

[Aristotle]

But he is. Adopted. And they have a familial bond. There is no such bond between Damien Wayne and anybody in the world.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I really hate DC's management of the Batman characters post-IC. Tim used to be so much better than the whiny, maladjusted 'tardface he is now.

 

[Aristotle]

Read Gotham Underground.

Remember Batman comics before War Games? No, I mean ignore Bruce Wayne: Fugitive, Murderer, Escapee, Sweater Model, Bi-Curious Slapstick Comedian. And forget about the astounding sequence of successive crossovers that was Cataclysm/Aftermath/Road to NML/No Man's Land. Remember Batman comics?

Yeah, that's Gotham Underground.

Add to that the [blackout]looming resurrection of Spoiler[/blackout], as well as Batgirl's redemption, and we're coming along, man, we're getting there.

 

[WompuM]

I want to beleive... I've just been burnt in the past.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Read Gotham Underground.

Remember Batman comics before War Games? No, I mean ignore Bruce Wayne: Fugitive, Murderer, Escapee, Sweater Model, Bi-Curious Slapstick Comedian. And forget about the astounding sequence of successive crossovers that was Cataclysm/Aftermath/Road to NML/No Man's Land. Remember Batman comics?

Yeah, that's Gotham Underground.

Add to that the [blackout]looming resurrection of Spoiler[/blackout], as well as Batgirl's redemption, and we're coming along, man, we're getting there.

That sounds crappy. I liked Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive and the vast majority of Cataclysm/NML, as well as the Batman comics that came after. Greg Rucka and Ed Brubaker contributed a lot during that period, and the Batman comics improved greatly because of it, as far as I'm concerned. That's the period that led directly into Gotham Central, which Gotham Underground sounds like, only it does the same thing with Gotham's superheroes instead of its cops and it's inevitably gotta be worse since it was written by Frank Tieri.

 

[Aristotle]

That sounds crappy. I liked Bruce Wayne: Murderer/Fugitive and the vast majority of Cataclysm/NML, as well as the Batman comics that came after.

Don't get me wrong, one of my favorite weekends was the time I read straight through, from the prelude to Cataclysm to the final issue of No Man's Land (last issue of Shadow of the Bat, too, wasn't it?), and I have generally liked the Bat-overs, but they're just not as strong as good, solid, month-to-month Batman writing. No matter who's doing the scripts and plots.

Greg Rucka and Ed Brubaker contributed a lot during that period, and the Batman comics improved greatly because of it, as far as I'm concerned.

Anyone writing the Cataclysm era is almost guaranteed to have written something he didn't want to.

That's the period that led directly into Gotham Central, which Gotham Underground sounds like, only it does the same thing with Gotham's superheroes instead of its cops and it's inevitably gotta be worse since it was written by Frank Tieri.

I wouldn't put Gotham Underground in the same vein as Gotham Central at all.

 

[Aristotle]

I want to beleive... I've just been burnt in the past.

Trust me.

 

[PhotoJones]

Dude, I read Gotham Underground and it's every bit as bad as any Frank Tieri book I've ever read. He's a one trick pony without a decent trick. Plus, Califiore's art is horrendous, as usual.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Don't get me wrong, one of my favorite weekends was the time I read straight through, from the prelude to Cataclysm to the final issue of No Man's Land (last issue of Shadow of the Bat, too, wasn't it?), and I have generally liked the Bat-overs, but they're just not as strong as good, solid, month-to-month Batman writing. No matter who's doing the scripts and plots.

Anyone writing the Cataclysm era is almost guaranteed to have written something he didn't want to.

I wouldn't put Gotham Underground in the same vein as Gotham Central at all.

I just read #2 at lunch. It's not like Gotham Central; that was more my own expectations based on the solicitations I've read. GU is definitely its own thing.

I liked it. Not because of anything that happened, really, but simply because of the Bat-family's re-emergence within its pages. Not since War Games have Batman's associates worked so well together. Dick and Tim are investigating again rather than just magically knowing everything, Oracle's back in the mix, other vigilantes are helping out in Gotham, Bruce is undercover, etc. There are still things I don't like about the Bat-family's state right now, but the very fact that there's a bunch of people I can point to and accurately call "the Bat-family" is a nice return to a formula that worked in itself.

The series doesn't seem all that great, but for the refreshing chance to finally read about Batman and his allies as a cohesive group again, I'll stick with it for a while, at least.

 

[Miss Webb]

I think several "biological" kids need to pop out of the weeds...after all, what happened to the HAIRY CHESTED LOVE GOD we were promised? No paternity suits, hmm???