Homecoming The Spider-Man Skepticism Thread

[ironwez20]

Yes, cooking is a part of May's character. The fact that she tries to do it in Homecoming & fails horribly is almost like they're poking fun at the real Aunt May.

Batman killing criminals sucked hard, hated it. But at least it's being corrected in the sequel. It was suppose to be bad, we weren't suppose to like it. "We're criminals, Alfred. Nothing's changed".-"Oh yes it has, Bruce. Everything's changed. That's how it starts, the fever, the rage. That turns good men cruel" Everything else about Batfleck was one of my favorite movie Batmen. The comic-accurate costume, the amazing fighting, the voice, the Batcave, the Batfamily history (that will be explored in Nightwing & Batgirl movies) Irons' Alfred & Affleck's Bruce Wayne. There was a lot done right that softened the blow for me.


An inexperienced Superman killing an unstoppable enemy as a last resort " is not in the same realm as Spider-Man, a character built from his independence- becoming Stark's sidekick. He's tired of being treated like a kid because Stark won't take him seriously. It's not about him wanting to prove to himself he's a good hero, he wants to prove it to Tony Stark. That's why he defies Stark, It is not about him taking back his independence from Stark. It'd be a different story if we didn't get this line in the trailer "I was just trying to be like you". He should be defying Stark because Toomes has to be stopped and because it's the right thing to do to stop him.


The suit is a completely different topic. Another thing that makes him not faithful. He's essentially Iron-Kid in that suit. Spiron-Man indeed.

Ok fine.... since I can't change your mind. how about this then. If the movie does everything you say with uncle ben not existing, peter sucking up to stark, the movie being bad is true then I will admit to you I was definitely wrong and will admit to you I was.

I still think we haven't seen the main focus of the movie.

With superman..... Superman doesn't kill. He is made to be the PERFECT hero. He finds solutions to hard problems. Your telling me he couldn't put him to sleep in some way? Idk.

Also he literally says in the trailer. "this guy is crazy dangerous. I have to do this on my own" Which means he knows that he must fight vulture on his own and take him out before he hurts people. He doesn't want to sit around and wait for stark to say so. thats the plot.

Also Back to Batman. the suit was cool, the fighting was cool, but it wasn't all the way batman. You can't give one a pass and criticize the other. It's out of character for batman to kill, it's out of character for him to just shoot up thugs. If spiderman hung criminals with his webs everyone would lose there minds,including you. I don't care so much for batman killing but batman branding people so they can be killed in jail? thats crazy and very out of character. Still like this take over Bale by a long shot.

 

[harryoscop]

Ok fine.... since I can't change your mind. how about this then. If the movie does everything you say with uncle ben not existing, peter sucking up to stark, the movie being bad is true then I will admit to you I was definitely wrong and will admit to you I was.

I still think we haven't seen the main focus of the movie.

With superman..... Superman doesn't kill. He is made to be the PERFECT hero. He finds solutions to hard problems. Your telling me he couldn't put him to sleep in some way? Idk.

Also he literally says in the trailer. "this guy is crazy dangerous. I have to do this on my own" Which means he knows that he must fight vulture on his own and take him out before he hurts people. He doesn't want to sit around and wait for stark to say so. thats the plot.

Also Back to Batman. the suit was cool, the fighting was cool, but it wasn't all the way batman. You can't give one a pass and criticize the other. It's out of character for batman to kill, it's out of character for him to just shoot up thugs. If spiderman hung criminals with his webs everyone would lose there minds,including you. I don't care so much for batman killing but batman branding people so they can be killed in jail? thats crazy and very out of character. Still like this take over Bale by a long shot.

Ben exists, he's just not in the movie for reasons I don't agree with but fair enough.


Superman was inexperienced, he never fought anyone anywhere near close to his power level. He had to stop Zod from killing the family, plus he felt terrible afterwards. I understand why fans didn't like it but I'm sure it was suppose to be a learning curve for him to never do it again.


After Stark takes the suit, I dunno what happens. Hopefully he's not still trying to impress Stark by the time the third act begins with the Homemade suit. But there's no denying he runs around in the first two acts trying to impress Tony. Trying to be liike him. Why did he have to go through this arc again? ****ing hell


Of course, but it's a Batman who's older and grizzled from all of his crime fighting. He's been doing his thing for so long, he became more and more cruel. It's bad but that's the point. But yeah, everything else was great. Like I said in the past, if Homecoming had Stark in the same role except MJ was in it, Ned & Flash & co were closer to the comics, It'd soften the blow because despite Stark being all up in it, they'd have gotten everything else right. Make it an easier pill to swallow. Vice-versa if Stark wasn't in it and Peter was independent. Make the unrecognizable supporting cast easier to swallow. But both terrible elements are combined

 

[ironwez20]

Stark may be in the movie for like 10 min at the most. I hope so atleast.

I still don't but superman and batman. There is no excuse for those characters whatsoever. None at all. They both acted out of character. I don't really care to much about batman's change though but superman was a sad sack. i don't want to derail the thread. i could go on and on on why BVS was bad tried to hard to cram stories together.

My problem is also peter being independent. But i'm being the positive guy here. I don't want this be like you said. Cuase if it is then this movie will suffer from it and the franchise will get pulled under more than it already is. So I guess i'm staying optimistic but still hoping it turns out well. Cause I was hyped for ASM2 and yea.

 

[harryoscop]

If they do it, can only hope it backfires & critics tear into it for the overuse of Stark & ruining of Spider-Man. Can already see it: "This movie uses Tony Stark as a crutch", "Is Spider-Man: Homecoming an Iron Man sequel in disguise?", "Iron Man 4 or Spider-Man: Homecoming?", "Iron Man: Homecoming"

At least that's what I hope happens. I don't want Spidey to be forever heavily associated with Tony Stark. because of this movie.

 

[ironwez20]

If they do it, can only hope it backfires & critics tear into it for the overuse of Stark & ruining of Spider-Man. Can already see it: "This movie uses Tony Stark as a crutch", "Is Spider-Man: Homecoming an Iron Man sequel in disguise?", "Iron Man 4 or Spider-Man: Homecoming?", "Iron Man: Homecoming"

At least that's what I hope happens. I don't want Spidey to be forever heavily associated with Tony Stark. because of this movie.

Which I'm hoping isn't the case. But if you are right and stark plays a major roll then I'll be surprised. I honestly hope that suit is nothing more then a cameo

 

[Nardz937]

Watched that latest clip. Giving away Spider-Man's identity for the sole-purpose of comedic effect is weak.

Also, another Spider-Man movie where he can't keep his secret identity a secret for long?

*yawn*

 

[Spider-Aziz]

None of those changes compare to Homecoming which is nonchalantly ruining characters. Aunt May is not Aunt May. She can't cook, she loves Rock, she goes to parties.. That ain't May. That's the opposite of who she is. You agree with me regarding Ned, but you can't honestly believe Batman is less faithful than him or anybody in this cast not named Adrian Toomes & Tony Stark. They didn't even bother.

Please, harry, please calm down. This is a movie based on cartoon characters, they didn't insult a relative of yours to get you this overworked about it.

I'm turned off by this movie as much as you are, the more I read about it the more turned off I get, so I relate your point of view.
I only came here cause this post was brought to my attention, so please, do like I do, and ignore this place, it will be more relaxing to you.

 

[Matt Parker]

See, I frankly don't care that they are changing supporting characters because they are using supporting characters that are very obscure, with the exception of Flash and May. See, them making Ned freaking Leeds an INO character if fine because I have never cared an inch about Ned. However, BVS made major, major changes to Batman himself. That change bothers me because his name is actually in the title. Peter in this movie looks more or less like what I would expect from teenage Peter. Yes, they have changed May and Flash, but I would argue that we have already seen more classic versions of those characters. May is still his mother figure that he hides his secret from in fear that she would freak. Her role in the story is the same.

 

[Web-Head]

See, I frankly don't care that they are changing supporting characters because they are using supporting characters that are very obscure, with the exception of Flash and May. See, them making Ned freaking Leeds an INO character if fine because I have never cared an inch about Ned. However, BVS made major, major changes to Batman himself. That change bothers me because his name is actually in the title. Peter in this movie looks more or less like what I would expect from teenage Peter. Yes, they have changed May and Flash, but I would argue that we have already seen more classic versions of those characters. May is still his mother figure that he hides his secret from in fear that she would freak. Her role in the story is the same.

It's not so much changing obscure comic characters. Flash and Betty aren't obscure though, it's more using obscure ones to me

 

[Limonade]

I want to add that much we are seeing, much like BvS, is an updated adaptation.

If they try to go for the same story, they'll find less of an audience for it the 3rd time around. Even if they got every element of the comic right.

This story to me is more in line with the ultimate Spiderman tv show, that's still pretty popular and fresh in young kids minds.

And from watching GOTG vol.2

Disney/Marvel/Sony are all on board for a family friendly movie that EVERYONE can enjoy.

 

[Dark Raven]

See, I frankly don't care that they are changing supporting characters because they are using supporting characters that are very obscure, with the exception of Flash and May. See, them making Ned freaking Leeds an INO character if fine because I have never cared an inch about Ned. However, BVS made major, major changes to Batman himself. That change bothers me because his name is actually in the title. Peter in this movie looks more or less like what I would expect from teenage Peter. Yes, they have changed May and Flash, but I would argue that we have already seen more classic versions of those characters. May is still his mother figure that he hides his secret from in fear that she would freak. Her role in the story is the same.

What about MJ, which they could very well be using?

 

[Flint Marko]

I used to make jokes about how people upset with Homecoming would flip out over Aunt May not cooking wheat cakes, and Harry just came close to making that a reality.

 

[Bearzooka]

Watched that latest clip. Giving away Spider-Man's identity for the sole-purpose of comedic effect is weak.

Also, another Spider-Man movie where he can't keep his secret identity a secret for long?

*yawn*

 

[X Knight]

See, I frankly don't care that they are changing supporting characters because they are using supporting characters that are very obscure, with the exception of Flash and May. See, them making Ned freaking Leeds an INO character if fine because I have never cared an inch about Ned. However, BVS made major, major changes to Batman himself. That change bothers me because his name is actually in the title. Peter in this movie looks more or less like what I would expect from teenage Peter. Yes, they have changed May and Flash, but I would argue that we have already seen more classic versions of those characters. May is still his mother figure that he hides his secret from in fear that she would freak. Her role in the story is the same.

I'm not that bothered by the changes to May. They are making her a younger Aunt, so I expect some changes as long as the core of the character is intact ( mother figure who raises Peter good and who Peter worries about ).

Likewise, I don't really mind the change to Ned/Ganke.

I can tolerate changes to Flash, though I still don't like it. Same with Betty, Sally, and Liz.

But I will not accept drastic changes to top tier characters like MJ, Gwen, Harry, and of course Peter.

 

[Nardz937]

Sorry guys, I haven't been following news on this movie too religiously. Can someone explain the changes they've made to Aunt May (besides she's way younger) Flash and Ned that people are upset about?

 

[Web-Head]

Sorry guys, I haven't been following news on this movie too religiously. Can someone explain the changes they've made to Aunt May (besides she's way younger) Flash and Ned that people are upset about?

Ned is just Ganke, Miles best friend and Flash is an academic rival and a non athlete

 

[harryoscop]

Please, harry, please calm down. This is a movie based on cartoon characters, they didn't insult a relative of yours to get you this overworked about it.

I'm turned off by this movie as much as you are, the more I read about it the more turned off I get, so I relate your point of view.
I only came here cause this post was brought to my attention, so please, do like I do, and ignore this place, it will be more relaxing to you.

This movie is unavoidable at this point. I went to see GOTG2 & the posters & promos were everywhere.

I love the suit design but it actually irks me that the suit is so classic: that they had the nerve to perfectly adapt the retro comic design but ruin everything around Peter himself. They better not have the nerve to incorporate the classic Spider-Man jingle into the theme.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

This movie is unavoidable at this point. I went to see GOTG2 & the posters & promos were everywhere.

I love the suit design but it actually irks me that the suit is so classic: that they had the nerve to perfectly adapt the retro comic design but ruin everything around Peter himself. They better not have the nerve to incorporate the classic Spider-Man jingle into the theme.

My youngest brother is so hyped up for the movie, all I do is ignore him, and everything advertising the movie aside from trailer.

 

[spiderral]

Tbh, TASM1 felt a lot like Spider-Man INO, and I think that was due to the darker, grittier tone, the costume, and the fact that they intentionally avoided elements from classic Spider-Man mythos (such as the Daily Bugle and the "Great Power" line being explicitly said) so the film wouldn't be compared too much to the Raimi films. Nonetheless, I enjoyed TASM, and subsequently really welcomed the lighter tone, costume change and better quips for TASM2.

Homecoming feels like it will be a Spider-Man movie INO but for completely different reasons, and apart from the fact that he moves and looks like Spider-Man (apart from the MCU-ified costume), Civil War and the first Homecoming trailer (I'm avoiding the rest of the promotional material to see the whole thing with fresh eyes) haven't really done much to convince me that this is THE definitive Marvel (Studios) version of Spider-Man.

 

[harryoscop]

Yeah, gotta admit I liked that spot. "Hold up with that! This anybody's bike?" It feels like SPIDER-MAN (not Peter) was put into a random High-school movie with Iron Man sprinkled all over it to the point where the salt is the only thing you can see:

My youngest brother is so hyped up for the movie, all I do is ignore him, and everything advertising the movie aside from trailer.

How do you do that? The only way for me would be to avoid the internet entirely. Because my Twitter line & Instagram is flooded with people talking about Homecoming.

 

[harryoscop]

Compare both Peters:

Notice how responsible & mature Ultimate is compared to MCU? He understands the gravitas of the situation and why May or nobody can know. MCU sounds like he doesn't want her to know because she won't let him be a hero anymore. Let me remind you that this was Ultimate Peter two months into his powers whereas MCU is 8 months into his.

I rest my case.

 

[Spider-Ock]

Compare both Peters:

Notice how responsible & mature Ultimate is compared to MCU? He understands the gravitas of the situation and why May or nobody can know. MCU sounds like he doesn't want her to know because she won't let him be a hero anymore. Let me remind you that this was Ultimate Peter two months into his powers whereas MCU is 8 months into his.

I rest my case.

This is factually incorrect. Did you hear the full line in the clip: "If she finds out that I fight bad guys every night she is not going to let me do this anymore." [or something very similar to that effect]

Compare that to what the Ultimate version said. Specifically, look at the bubble when he says this: "If May finds out that I risk my life every night...etc"

I am sorry, but instead of proving your own point, you just provided an example of something in Homecoming that is actually very comic accurate.

 

[harryoscop]

This is factually incorrect. Did you hear the full line in the clip: "If she finds out that I fight bad guys every night she is not going to let me do this anymore." [or something very similar to that effect]

Compare that to what the Ultimate version said. Specifically, look at the bubble when he says this: "If May finds out that I risk my life every night...etc"

I am sorry, but instead of proving your own point, you just provided an example of something in Homecoming that is actually very comic accurate.

Wll what about him not wanting to endanger his loved ones? Why didn't he explain that to Ned? Toomes probably finds out, that's why Schocker showed up in the Schoolyard. Seems like something Peter would make clear to him

 

[X Knight]

This is factually incorrect. Did you hear the full line in the clip: "If she finds out that I fight bad guys every night she is not going to let me do this anymore." [or something very similar to that effect]

Compare that to what the Ultimate version said. Specifically, look at the bubble when he says this: "If May finds out that I risk my life every night...etc"

I am sorry, but instead of proving your own point, you just provided an example of something in Homecoming that is actually very comic accurate.

Wll what about him not wanting to endanger his loved ones? Why didn't he explain that to Ned? Toomes probably finds out, that's why Schocker showed up in the Schoolyard. Seems like something Peter would make clear to him

actually, harry does make a point.

in the comic bubble, Peter is expressing his concern for others - what his enemies would do to May, the school, etc. What it would do to May if she knew Peter risked his life every night and might get killed. iow, the stress and worry it would cause May.

in the clip, it's more about Peter worrying that May wouldn't let him do this anymore if she found out. He doesn't really express concern about the safety of those around him or the potential stress it would cause. It's more about "If May finds out, she'll kill me" instead of "If May finds out, it would kill her."

so that does come across as MCU Peter seeming to be more concerned about him not being able to continue as Spidey should May find out, as opposed to Ultimate Peter who is concerned more about how it would endanger and worry/stress the people around him if they knew.

granted, it's kind of hard to judge the totality of the film from that one clip.

but harry does bring up a valid point, imo.

comparing that clip to the Ultimate comic panel also serves as a stark contrast between Ultimate MJ and Zendaya's character in the clip.

Even though Ultimate MJ was more of a nerd than classic 616 party girl MJ, she was still pretty and she had a bright, bubbly, uplifting personality. Look how excited she was initially to learn of Peter's secret and how she wants to share it with the world ( outgoing personality ).

contrast that to the sour/dour, frowning/scowling "Michelle" who enjoys teasing Peter and making him squirm with her questioning, only to laugh it off sarcastically.

 

[jasontodd]

actually, harry does make a point.

in the comic bubble, Peter is expressing his concern for others - what his enemies would do to May, the school, etc. What it would do to May if she knew Peter risked his life every night and might get killed. iow, the stress and worry it would cause May.

in the clip, it's more about Peter worrying that May wouldn't let him do this anymore if she found out. He doesn't really express concern about the safety of those around him or the potential stress it would cause. It's more about "If May finds out, she'll kill me" instead of "If May finds out, it would kill her."

so that does come across as MCU Peter seeming to be more concerned about him not being able to continue as Spidey should May find out, as opposed to Ultimate Peter who is concerned more about how it would endanger and worry/stress the people around him if they knew.

granted, it's kind of hard to judge the totality of the film from that one clip.

but harry does bring up a valid point, imo.

comparing that clip to the Ultimate comic panel also serves as a stark contrast between Ultimate MJ and Zendaya's character in the clip.

Even though Ultimate MJ was more of a nerd than classic 616 party girl MJ, she was still pretty and she had a bright, bubbly, uplifting personality. Look how excited she was initially to learn of Peter's secret and how she wants to share it with the world ( outgoing personality ).

contrast that to the sour/dour, frowning/scowling "Michelle" who enjoys teasing Peter and making him squirm with her questioning, only to laugh it off sarcastically.

Yes. Although on this forum it is frowned upon to agree with Harry or to find his points valid.