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The State of FF: Clearing up misconceptions and a best case scenario moving forward

Comic Book Guy

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I feel this deserves its own thread since I see a lot of misinformation/misunderstanding on here about the state of the rights of the FF. The post won't be too long, it's not hard to explain. Basically, i see a lot of people here thinking that Fox owns the rights out right to FF; they don't. They own the distribution rights. Constantin Film is the studio that owns the production rights to FF. THAT BEING SAID, it's undeniable that Fox has a big part in the production of FF and for all intents and purposes it seems that Constantin Film lets Fox handle most of the creative side of things.

That being the case, this bombing of FF does not mean Fox will just wholesale the FF back to Marvel, they can't, only Constantin Film has the right to do that. What this does mean, however, is that it will be easy for Fox to see that FF is not enough of a worthwhile investment to continue putting time and resources into because of the fact they have to split the earnings with several parties and don't even have merchandising rights. To this end, rather than Marvel getting the rights back out right which is unlikely to happen because Constantin Film is not a big film studio and only has so many properties, what could happen is that Fox decides to wash their hands clean of FF and give up the distribution rights for it. This will leave Constantin Film looking for another company willing to pick up distribution and primary funding/production of the film and that will obviously immediately lead them to Marvel/Disney. They could strike a deal very similar to the one Fox and Constantin Film had where Constantin Film still owned the rights to the characters and made money off of the movies but production and distribution was left primarily in Fox's hands. Only difference is that the FF being under Marvel/Disney will obviously open them to the MCU. This would be a very attractive proposition to Constantin Film and I'm sure they would see the opportunity for significant revenue increase.

Another avenue that could take place is that rather than give up the FF distribution rights for nothing, Constantin Film could sign off on a deal between Fox and Marvel where Marvel give Fox the go ahead on an X-Men TV series (or maybe just the X-Men TV rights out right) and maybe some cash considerations in exchange for the rights to distribute FF. I see this as the most likely scenario.

Either way, I don't see a case where the FF don't end up back in the hands of Marvel/Disney at this point. It's just not enough of a worthwhile proposition for Fox to keep it going. It consistently underperforms for them, this time to an epic level, and brings their company really bad press every time they release one. This for a film they probably barely get 45% of the revenue from (if that...) and are forced to make one every 7 years when they really don't want to. Either way I feel this is the final nail in the coffin and the faction inside Fox that wants to cleanse themselves of this property will get their wish.
 
Where's your link to Constantin still owning FF?
 
Just look at the credits for the film. Constantin Film is listed rights there as part of the production companies (along with Marvel Entertainment, Marv Films, and TGS Entertainment). And they've been involved in every FF movie ever made (including the 1994 film, they're the studio that produced that). If you do some digging on the history as well you'll find out that they simply sold the distribution rights to Fox after the 1994 fiasco, they never gave up the rights to the characters out right.
 
Basically if Marvel Studios under Disney had existed back in the early 90s i believe they would have went to them to distribute the film rather than Fox. And I think if they didn't have a contract with Fox they would have went to Disney already. I believe a situation is coming up soon where they will be able to do that.
 
Good. Constantin films should absolutely give the distribution rights back to Marvel. Just as long as they have limited creative control.
 
Very interesting. Do you know if Constantin has a locked in contract with FOX or have the final word on green lighting a new film? Because it sounds like they deferred to FOX to produce it, FOX having more resources, but still FOX only has the legal decision on distribution. If so, I can picture a scenario where Constantin decides to run the clock on their distribution deal to make a potentially better deal with Marvel. Think about it, Marvel still have merchandising, comic book, and (I'm assuming) television rights, maybe even video game rights. It would make sense to give Constantin a bigger slice of the film's profit margins in the theory that they'll make much more profit on the the other products as a result. If Spider-man is successful it can prove the MCU's banner can restore troubled franchise to glory. It could be a great win-win scenario for Constantin.

Still depends on how Constantin can get out of their deal with FOX, if there's anything preventing Constantin from changing their distributor. Because if that's the case someone forward this idea to them right away.
 
There will be no green lighting of the sequel, no matter what's 'on paper' right now. Fox is providing the budget for this, no matter who owns the rights, so the FF for all intents and purposes is dead with Fox.
 
If this is true......

FOX has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in an FF franchise that could be pulled away at any time at the whim of a small time production outfit.

When Marvel negotiated with FOX for the return of Galactus and the Surfer, they were dealing with the wrong company.

Disney could have snagged the FF franchise from FOX at any time by making Constantin a better offer.

Constantin is the Avi Arad or Jon Peters of the FF world. As the original producer they get a production credit and a check. Nothing more.
 
There will be no green lighting of the sequel, no matter what's 'on paper' right now. Fox is providing the budget for this, no matter who owns the rights, so the FF for all intents and purposes is dead with Fox.

Good. I don't want this to have a sequel.
 
If this is true......

FOX has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in an FF franchise that could be pulled away at any time at the whim of a small time production outfit.

When Marvel negotiated with FOX for the return of Galactus and the Surfer, they were dealing with the wrong company.

Disney could have snagged the FF franchise from FOX at any time by making Constantin a better offer.

Constantin is the Avi Arad or Jon Peters of the FF world. As the original producer they get a production credit and a check. Nothing more.

Ding ding ding!
 
Fox has damaged this property significantly. Whoever has the rights to this pretty much has a useless property and would be wise to sell it back to Marvel for whatever they can get because at this point Marvel is the only studio that has a shot at making a successful film from it, anyone else will just keep losing money.
 
If this is true......

FOX has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in an FF franchise that could be pulled away at any time at the whim of a small time production outfit.

When Marvel negotiated with FOX for the return of Galactus and the Surfer, they were dealing with the wrong company.

Disney could have snagged the FF franchise from FOX at any time by making Constantin a better offer.

Constantin is the Avi Arad or Jon Peters of the FF world. As the original producer they get a production credit and a check. Nothing more.
I doubt FOX would leave themselves open like that, I bet there's a clause stating they can't change the distribution company until a certain date when the contract is up for renewal. I believe it would mean Marvel was negotiating for FOX to relinquish the distribution rights of those specific characters. And if Disney could have snagged the rights they would have, gotta be some legal clause that prevented it.
 
I doubt FOX would leave themselves open like that, I bet there's a clause stating they can't change the distribution company until a certain date when the contract is up for renewal. I believe it would mean Marvel was negotiating for FOX to relinquish the distribution rights of those specific characters. And if Disney could have snagged the rights they would have, gotta be some legal clause that prevented it.

How about Constantin relinquished their licensing agreement in exchange for a production credit and a check for future FF releases? I'm gonna go with that one.
 
How about Constantin relinquished their licensing agreement in exchange for a production credit and a check for future FF releases? I'm gonna go with that one.

Yeah. Every single Producer on this thing works for Fox (save Exec Producer Stan Lee). They're clearly not just the distributor. They produced the entire film.
 
The film will make its budget back at least
Fox kept the rights before after two bad movie bombs and they made this movie to keep the rights. If no sequel gets green lit they'll just sit on the rights for a few years again and do the same thing or use the villains like in their x-men movies going forward.

Marvel's potential for making bank with the F4 will always keep them from caving
 
Yeah. Every single Producer on this thing works for Fox (save Exec Producer Stan Lee). They're clearly not just the distributor. They produced the entire film.

And the Google translation of Constantin's press release makes them sound like the junior production partner.

The electricity produced by the US studio Twentieth Century Fox in collaboration with Constantin Film cinema blockbusters will conquer the German screens in summer:
http://www.presseportal.de/pm/12946/3027968
 
The film will make its budget back at least
Fox kept the rights before after two bad movie bombs and they made this movie to keep the rights.

There is no way this film makes its budget back. Even if it opens to $40 million, films with this much stink around them from both critics and audiences don't last in theaters. It's going to sink like a stone next week.

Also...their last two FF movies were actually hits. The second one just didn't make quite enough for them to greenlight a sequel, but it was definitely a money maker, not a bomb.
 
The film will make its budget back at least
Fox kept the rights before after two bad movie bombs and they made this movie to keep the rights. If no sequel gets green lit they'll just sit on the rights for a few years again and do the same thing or use the villains like in their x-men movies going forward.

Marvel's potential for making bank with the F4 will always keep them from caving

This is on track to make less of it's production budget back domestically than Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance.
 
Marvel is going to get the rights back to the Fantastic Four. It's just a matter of whether it's sooner or later.
 
There is no way this film makes its budget back. Even if it opens to $40 million, films with this much stink around them from both critics and audiences don't last in theaters. It's going to sink like a stone next week.

Also...their last two FF movies were actually hits. The second one just didn't make quite enough for them to greenlight a sequel, but it was definitely a money maker, not a bomb.
Unless it somehow does well internationally
 
"The international box office will save it" is a common thing that is said when a film like this bombs, from people who are in denial. This is not going to be a hit. It's not going to get a sequel. Or an X-Men crossover. It is DONE.
 
I can't see it doing well internationally. Not when its low quality, lacking in action, has no 3D, and doesn't look to be getting a Chinese release.
 
I feel like this Constantin stuff is not as simple as it may sound.
 

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