The super-duper JUGGERNAUT thread.

[kiuju2k]

f Juggernaut's powers come from magic, it means he could BEAT SUPERMAN!!!

I have those books. Juggernaut jobbed out to superman just like the hulked did.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

That's bulls**t. I'm so sick and tired of Superman and Batman winning every single fight against Marvel characters who should clearly own them.

 

[Langoth]

Juggernaut should NOT clearly own Superman, except for in their first fight.

Superman would lose their first battle, as he'd probably go in there like a sledge hammer, and when he's shocked that something is wrong with the world when he hits Cain, and jack **** happens, and then he gets backahnded through several buildings, he'll be in a bad spot.

But the second battle they have, he would wisen up, and use his speed advantages, and probably end up making Cain less of a threat.

Supes and Cain really CAN'T beat one another. Cain is not fast enough to catch supes, and supes is not able to harm Cain.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

But Supes is vulnerable to magic, and Juggs' power comes from magic, so a single punch at full force from Juggs should totally pulp Supes.

 

[Darthphere]

I dont think it actually works like that. And considering theyre from different universees Marvel's magic probably wouldnt affect Superman anyway, considering what went down in IC with SUperboy Prime not being weak to Earth 1 Kryptonite.

 

[Langoth]

I honestly think Juggernaut, with Superman having no previous knowledge of him, would PROBABLY stop Superman in a fight.

But as soon as Superman learns more about Cain, Superman will know how to fight him, avoid him, and lead him off, and acheive his objective, but the two, if Superman knows about Cain, will NEVER KO one another, just due to the speed and toughness differences.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

It would just be fun to see Superman spitting out some teeth for once.

 

[Langoth]

I love Cain, and I can't say I'm a huge fan of supes, but I call it like a I see it. If superman knows about Cain, he's just too fast for Cain to catch. Cain has problems catching Spider-Man, let alone someone who leaves Quicksilver in the dust.

 

[iambilly81]

well,if superman ran away like quicksilver, then juggernaut one because superman was afraid and ran away. if they actually got in to a real brawl . the first time they meet, juggernaut would win, just because superman wouldnt know the whole story of cain. knowing cain he would make fun of him and what not while running full steam. and sups would catch on, but not enough to stop the unstoppable. no way.

 

[KevanG]

Superman would prob just spin Cain around then boot him into space for the cheap win :P

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Ever heard of "quantum tunnelling"? It's a new theory essentially stating that a human being could turn into a horse or a chair at any time for no apparent reason simply because NOTHING is "impossible", but simply "mathematically improbable". If it's possible for Hulk to exist, then it's possible for him to punch through time and space when he gets super-pissed off. And have you ever considered the idea that "magic" isn't some irrational, mystical force, but rather a misunderstood phenomenon of quantum physics? "Hyperspatial manipulation", perhaps?

Yeah, but that's entirely theoretical science. That essentially makes it no more realistic than a writer having the Hulk punch through time "'cause he's the Hulk, duh." Plus, I'm thinking that even quantum tunnelling states that it's really, really, really HIGHLY mathematically improbable for a human being to spontaneously turn into a chair or for anyone to punch through time.

 

[Assassin]

Someone differs in opinion to you so you throw your rattle out of your push chair? grow the hell up.

i dont like arguing with idiots, so i'd rather you shut the **** up.

 

[rodhulk]

But all these things you guys are talking about are just theories. We have no proof that people can actually change into a chair or whatever. As for magic, nobody truly knows exactly what it is. Is it some type of mystical power or is it of the mind? Or a combo of both/sometimes a combo of both?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It seems to be implied by the comics that magic is not simply another, uncomprehended form of science. It's energy can't be manipulated by the likes of Quasar and the Silver Surfer, who are first-class scientific energy manipulators, for example. Reed Richards tried to use magic as well, but he approached it as a science and failed miserably at it.

 

[rodhulk]

Yes, exactly, magic isn't a thing of science, not as we know science yet anyways.

Hulk has, at least once, resisted Dr. Strange's magic, so it is possible that strength can sometimes beat/overcome magic. Hulk punching through time, though, still confuses me.

 

[Langoth]

Juggernaut, as he's originally supposed to be, is an amazingly astounding threat to anyone whose powers operate under scientific or non-magical ways, barring telepathy.

 

[XFanTim]

Ever heard of "quantum tunnelling"? It's a new theory essentially stating that a human being could turn into a horse or a chair at any time for no apparent reason simply because NOTHING is "impossible", but simply "mathematically improbable". If it's possible for Hulk to exist, then it's possible for him to punch through time and space when he gets super-pissed off. And have you ever considered the idea that "magic" isn't some irrational, mystical force, but rather a misunderstood phenomenon of quantum physics? "Hyperspatial manipulation", perhaps?

A few points from the resident physics Ph.D. candidate:

Quantum tunelling -- the idea that a particle can pass through a potential barrier that according to classical physics is too high for it to cross -- isn't really "new". We're talking about basic quantum mechanics -- i.e., physics from the first half of the 20th century.

Anyway, what you're talking about isn't really quantum tunneling per se -- more like the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics in general (of which quantum tunelling is one consequence). Yes, there's a chance that a particle that's observed in one position will later be observed in a drastically different position. So, in principle a bunch of particles could go from one configuration to another due to probabilistic effects. But when we're talking about this happening for all the particles in a macroscopic object (in other words more than billions of billions of particles) it is not only "improbable", but ludicrously, absurdly, ridiculously improbable.

I'm not going to try to work out the exact probability of all the atoms of a human being spontaneously reassembling themselves to make a chair due to random quantum effects -- but I feel confident in predicting it would not happen even once even if you could wait a billion times the age of the universe.

I just want to make this clear -- quantum mechanics doesn't make any prediction that we should see magical effects like people turning into chairs in the real world. Maybe such things are possible in principle, but they're so absurdly unlikely as to make such possibilities meaningless. Furthermore, I know of no credible scientist who believes the basic laws of probability can be in some way altered. In fact, experimental science is dependent on the assumption that the laws of probability are absolute. If your theory predicts that a certain outcome is absurdly unlikely, and that outcome is then observed repeatedly, scientists will conclude your theory is wrong. They won't say "Maybe the laws of probability changed to make that outcome more likely."

I just don't want anyone treating all the bull**** "psychics" and magic acts out there with any more credulity on the grounds that "quantum mechanics says anything is possible".

Of course, in comic books the writers can make up whatever pseudo-scientific B.S. they want.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

So, in principle a bunch of particles could go from one configuration to another due to probabilistic effects. But when we're talking about this happening for all the particles in a macroscopic object (in other words more than billions of billions of particles) it is not only "improbable", but ludicrously, absurdly, ridiculously improbable.

Hahaha, thanks. I was hoping you'd stop by this thread at some point. That's basically what I was getting at earlier, I just didn't know all your sciencey jargon for it.

 

[Speedball]

LOL, it's funny that you choose a picture from the comic he died in. Taken out by Gambit LOL

 

[Dr.Doom]

he didnt die in that comic

 

[Speedball]

he didnt die in that comic

yes he did.
That's from Ultimate X-men Annual #1
Gambit made a building fall on him after he blew up his suit and helmet. I remember it quite vividly. Gambit died too, after a long kiss from Rogue. She now has his powers because of that kiss.

 

[Dr.Doom]

i know all that, but they didnt find juggs body

 

[Speedball]

is that in the annual? or in a later comic?

 

[Dr.Doom]

annual

 

[Langoth]

We don't know if that building killed Juggernaut or not.