The Superior Spider-Man

[The Amazing Lee]

Although I am not up to date with superior spider-man as of yet, I have a feeling that we won't be getting Peter back in his original body straight away. I have a feeling it's a little bit more complicated than that.

A Dan Slott tweet from Feb 6th: "The full plot for ASM #1 is in. Very happy w/ it. Tho I can predict where people will freak out. Pg 2. Definitely Pg 2"

 

[JewishHobbit]

Dan Slott annoys me with all his: "This will be great because it will tick people off!!!!"

 

[Themanofbat]

Dan Slott annoys me with all his: "This will be great because it will tick people off!!!!"

Because typically, the people that get pissed off about a comic are for the most part people who somehow think THEY are greater than the comic characters & the creators behind the scenes...

We've all heard it before... "I've been a fan for X years", "they raped my childhood hero", "I've bought my last Marvel Comic".... blah, blah, blah...

The idea behind serialized storytelling is a never ending continuing story of fiction, so once in a while, we get ideas that may be a bit "wtf", but at least it's better than doing something we've seen before... but for SOME reason, people feel that because they've invested their TIME and MONEY on a comic book series, that somehow a creator should respect the wants AND needs of these people, and only tell the stories that this small faction of fans feel they DESERVE to get... what a bunch of bull... if this were the case, then we'd have never seen DC revamp their characters in the 60's, ot get some of the most powerful stories we got from the Silver Age...

At the end of the day, either buy the books or don't.

Hell... even complaining and/or disliking about a book's direction is fine... but some people have made a career choice with the complaining... up to the point that's it's quite funny... "Look, look, MY opinion about OMD (6+ years later) MUST be heard on the internets"... lulz... So I don't blame Dan for saying such stuff, because he's just yanking the chains of the SAME group of people that have basically become parodies of themselves.

I like it when he does this... making fun of people for basically being stupid over nothing is a never ending source of chuckles and good times...

 

[The Amazing Lee]

He seems like a very down to earth guy who posts on forums, answers twitter questions (He's replied to me a couple of times) and generally likes to go head on with the trolls with some trolling of his own.

He seems like a fan first of all that has lucked out on getting the opportunity to write for Marvel's flagship title. I like the fact that even through the backlash (a lot of it because he is taking steps in a uncomfortable situations that he knows will divide people) he seems to remain intact and never seems to stumble off his seat, attacking people who attack him.

 

[runawayboulder]

Being THE writer for Spider-Man is an automatic uphill battle. Marvel has made it that way.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

He seems like a very down to earth guy who posts on forums, answers twitter questions (He's replied to me a couple of times) and generally likes to go head on with the trolls with some trolling of his own.

He seems like a fan first of all that has lucked out on getting the opportunity to write for Marvel's flagship title. I like the fact that even through the backlash (a lot of it because he is taking steps in a uncomfortable situations that he knows will divide people) he seems to remain intact and never seems to stumble off his seat, attacking people who attack him.

he's great if you agree with him. But the man can't handle criticism very well... trolling or not. He's been prone to nearly spazing out about it even.

 

[runawayboulder]

He went from having one incident to being prone? You never had a bad day at work?

 

[JewishHobbit]

I think it's pretty safe to say it's been more than once. And how much better is Dan Slott than those who complain if he's the one provoking it? I mean, the issue hasn't even come out yet and he's already starting the flames. I often wonder if people like him and Wacker don't do it on purpose to get the controversy going for sales and publicity sake. The guy who runs my comic shop gets into constant fights with the two of them over at BleedingCool. I've read a few of the disagreements and Slott and Wacker were just as bad as him and those agreeing with him.

I just prefer my professionals to be... you know... professional. But maybe that's just my retail past speaking.

 

[Dread]

I've met Dan Slott at cons/signings at least twice; in person he's always fun and respectful. I can't attest to how he conducts himself online, though; I haven't gotten into it on a message board with him. I have seen things get a little ugly on a scim, though.

To a degree in terms of "rabble rousing", it usually is compared by some in the biz to some of the breathless bluster Stan Lee used to have on covers of his Silver Age comics. Take them at their word, every issue was the best thing ever, every new villain was a classic whether it was Green Goblin or the Living Brain, etc. Of course, there were far fewer comics then, and the fan community was far different. It was a different market, and a different time. That isn't to say that fans couldn't be passionate; old letter columns for LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES from the late 50's and early 60's can read pretty crazy. To a degree most in the biz will do what they can to promote their book, and that can include inciting some controversy - something Joe Q seemed to have a personal zeal for online during the height of his EIC tenure. People still dig up OMD interviews he did like they were lost Watergate tapes, they were so provoking.

For me personally where it crosses a line is where the bluster and promotions either get downright misleading or insulting to the intelligence. I distinctly remember Joe Q stating in an interview at either CBR or Newsarama back when Skaar replaced his father as the titular Hulk that Bruce Banner wouldn't EVER become the Hulk again. Now, of course he couldn't say, "c'mon, we're just doing something new for a few months and of course Banner'll be back", but at least some happy medium would be best. You can't capitalize on the long memories of fans and then assume they have the attention span of a head of cabbage in one promotional statement. Of course you also have fans' zeal for spoilers sometimes, but let's be honest; very few questions conducted by a sanctioned media outlet are going to be beyond snowball level because keeping those contacts happy is so critical.

I've come and gone on Spider-Man's core title throughout my life. Due to the connection the character had with me when I was young (he was one of the first comic book characters I connected to as a toddler, watching "SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS" from my playpen), he'll always get endless chances with me, albeit not without taking breaks due to some editorial sanction which pushes him somewhere I dislike. Happened in the 90's during and after the Clone Saga. Happened after 2007 due to Overblown Management Decree. Slott brought me back because despite him being one of the three rotating writers on the series since Jan. 2008, Nov. 2010 he was taking over solo and I liked the premise he was laying down. And beyond some hiccups or nagging moments here or there I've enjoyed that run since, often greatly. At its height it was as good as I remember some of the 90's stuff was. As an adult reader, as in over 18 years old, Slott's comics were some of the best Spidey I'd had.

Superior Spider-Man, though, I see as an experiment which I probably won't see fondly when looking back on it. What it did well was take the tired mind-swap plot and make it into a relevant, even epic yarn. Unfortunately, to do that required what seemed like one more drastic leap in logic or character misrepresentation from the cast after the next. As an arc it is fine; as a story which was expected to last for about a year and a half, it was stretched too thin and has left a lot of mangled characters who should have known better looking like morons. The story itself offered some explanations and seemed to have some fun at some of its own contrivances, but that only works to a point. In the end, Dr. Octopus was able to seemingly murder his arch nemesis, possess his body, and then proceed to shatter the reputation that the hero worked so long to build because everyone the hero ever knew, from his ex-wife/fiance to his superhero peers seemed to forget everything Spider-Man stood for before (or because Peter the Friendly Ghost let off the right "aura", whatever you prefer). Characters such as MJ or May who used to be able to tell when a trained spy/actor such as Chameleon as well as literal genetic clones would impersonate Parker within LESS THAN AN ISSUE treat "Spider-Man" murdering people on TV or blowing up districts with hordes of giant robots and minions as if he'd started combing his hair different.

But, there's also been a lot of good stuff with the villains. Cardiac, Roderick Kingsley, the Goblin Nation, all good stuff. Miguel O'Hara has also been excellent. And some bits of Ock's tenure made for riveting stuff.

That said, it seems to be heating up for the finale and I'll be glad to move on. It's been a dip on Slott's roller coaster for me and I eagerly await the upswing.

 

[Darkness Falls]

Dan Slott annoys me with all his: "This will be great because it will tick people off!!!!"

yea that pisses me off too

 

[JewishHobbit]

And to go along with what you said bugs you... Wacker promoted Superior Spider-Man as the forever Spider-Man and that Peter would never come back. Ock is the Spider-Man of the future... which is just stupid promotion that anyone who've read comics for more than a year would know is bogus. A lot of smoke just to invoke rage. Stupid.

 

[runawayboulder]

And to go along with what you said bugs you... Wacker promoted Superior Spider-Man as the forever Spider-Man and that Peter would never come back. Ock is the Spider-Man of the future... which is just stupid promotion that anyone who've read comics for more than a year would know is bogus. A lot of smoke just to invoke rage. Stupid.

Actually Wacker said that people would eventually forget about Peter Parker. Yet his "ghost" was right there at the end of the first issue.

 

[Themanofbat]

And to go along with what you said bugs you... Wacker promoted Superior Spider-Man as the forever Spider-Man and that Peter would never come back. Ock is the Spider-Man of the future... which is just stupid promotion that anyone who've read comics for more than a year would know is bogus. A lot of smoke just to invoke rage. Stupid.

Well into the Superior run... my 15 year old son (who is reading the book), would constantly state his 'concerns" that Peter was never coming back (because that is what he read in letter columns), and he wished he could come back in the near future.

After I would say that he could "drop the book" if he didn't like it (which was followed by a series of "Nonononono... I'm liking it... I just miss Peter"), I would then go into the "nothing is really forever in Spider-Man comics" mode, aside from Uncle Ben, Gwen, and Captain Stacy's deaths... oh yeah, and the MARRIAGE!!!! (Bwahahahahahaha)...

So to the more adult and experienced reader, yes, Whacker's words seemed like a lot of bologna... but not to my kid... and I doubt he's the sole exception.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I'm typically not as big a fan of when people take advantage of my children's naive minds for the sake of controversy. There really is no good angle to blatant lies like that. It can't even be considered misdirection. It's just Whacker being a *****e in his answering.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

He went from having one incident to being prone? You never had a bad day at work?

i saw more than one example... lol

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I think it's pretty safe to say it's been more than once. And how much better is Dan Slott than those who complain if he's the one provoking it? I mean, the issue hasn't even come out yet and he's already starting the flames. I often wonder if people like him and Wacker don't do it on purpose to get the controversy going for sales and publicity sake. The guy who runs my comic shop gets into constant fights with the two of them over at BleedingCool. I've read a few of the disagreements and Slott and Wacker were just as bad as him and those agreeing with him.

I just prefer my professionals to be... you know... professional. But maybe that's just my retail past speaking.

I'm in the same boat... "professionals" usually can some up a disagreement by saying "I'm sorry you're not a fan, but i'll stand by my work, i wish you enjoyed it more though" rather than flinging-poo at the fan. Sure it can be funny when it's ridiculous.. but not every upset fan is ridiculous. It's important to remember we all love the characters in these books and you shouldn't alienate fan's further.

I'm not happy with what Quesada turned the book into, and while i was reading and (some what enjoying part of Slotts work) I have no desire to go back thanks to his attitude. The book's not where i wish it was.. but it at least sounds like a few good stories have come from it. I was a really big fan of Slott until he played the "my way or the high-way" card with the fanbase.

 

[Themanofbat]

Sure it can be funny when it's ridiculous.. but not every upset fan is ridiculous.

And not every upset fan gets flinging-poo thrown their way...

 

[Arach Knight]

I've come and gone on Spider-Man's core title throughout my life. Due to the connection the character had with me when I was young [...] he'll always get endless chances with me, albeit not without taking breaks due to some editorial sanction which pushes him somewhere I dislike. Happened in the 90's during and after the Clone Saga. Happened after 2007 due to Overblown Management Decree. Slott brought me back because despite him being one of the three rotating writers on the series since Jan. 2008, Nov. 2010 he was taking over solo and I liked the premise he was laying down. And beyond some hiccups or nagging moments here or there I've enjoyed that run since, often greatly. At its height it was as good as I remember some of the 90's stuff was. As an adult reader, as in over 18 years old, Slott's comics were some of the best Spidey I'd had.

Superior Spider-Man, though, I see as an experiment which I probably won't see fondly when looking back on it. What it did well was take the tired mind-swap plot and make it into a relevant, even epic yarn. Unfortunately, to do that required what seemed like one more drastic leap in logic or character misrepresentation from the cast after the next. As an arc it is fine; as a story which was expected to last for about a year and a half, it was stretched too thin and has left a lot of mangled characters who should have known better looking like morons. The story itself offered some explanations and seemed to have some fun at some of its own contrivances, but that only works to a point. In the end, Dr. Octopus was able to seemingly murder his arch nemesis, possess his body, and then proceed to shatter the reputation that the hero worked so long to build because everyone the hero ever knew, from his ex-wife/fiance to his superhero peers seemed to forget everything Spider-Man stood for before (or because Peter the Friendly Ghost let off the right "aura", whatever you prefer).

Characters such as MJ or May who used to be able to tell when a trained spy/actor such as Chameleon as well as literal genetic clones would impersonate Parker within LESS THAN AN ISSUE treat "Spider-Man" murdering people on TV or blowing up districts with hordes of giant robots and minions as if he'd started combing his hair different.

This sums up my sentiments quite well. When I was much younger, editorial decisions used to infuriate me. As I matured I accepted that it is all story telling in a fictional space. I can choose what to read because at the core, I only care about the characters and the adventure. I can always read old arcs when I find current arcs and plot elements to be undesirable.

I have taken four major breaks from Spider-Man.

1) After Ben fought nanobot Carnage (not Cletus Kasady).

2) After Spider-Man unmasked during Civil War.

3) When Joe Q forced JMS to end his run with OMD.

4) When Doc Ock took over Peter's body.

I almost bailed on the Other, but I'm a Morlun fan.

At the end of the day, disliking an editorial decision doesn't require verbal (typed) hostility nor does it require me to swear off a book forever. I haven't read an issue of "Amazing" since it turned into Superior, and am unlikely to ever do so. Still, I eagerly look forward to Peter's return next month or so. Sometimes the stories are awesome, other times, I don't care for them. It should not lead to such ire.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

And not every upset fan gets flinging-poo thrown their way...

o please...

you get to stand all high and mighty because it's all gone your way the entire time... and you couldn't be happier and while on top you've done nothing more than gloat at anyone complaining. Some people don't share that opinion. And just about anyone who's ever confronted Slott on here either got ignored or chewed out.

there's a long list of things ive been unhappy about. The book has changed too much from what I loved. And it's not all just about the marriage. Even Slott's continuity isn't perfect. He's great at making old connections to forgotten characters.. but there's been some decisions that yes, will always be stuck in my Kraw. It just hasn't felt like the book i loved for a long time now. You're having your day, enjoy. Just don't be an ass to those with a different opinion.

 

[Arach Knight]

Spiderboy, you raise a good point. I don't carr about change. I care about sloppy storytelling that can at times appear to be egotism and outright negligence of the stewardship of legacy/canon. Then there are decisions that effectively change the general premise too much. It is important to retain the general premise when making compromises with other story elements.

 

[Themanofbat]

o please...

you get to stand all high and mighty because it's all gone your way the entire time... and you couldn't be happier and while on top you've done nothing more than gloat at anyone complaining. Some people don't share that opinion. And just about anyone who's ever confronted Slott on here either got ignored or chewed out.

there's a long list of things ive been unhappy about. The book has changed too much from what I loved. And it's not all just about the marriage. Even Slott's continuity isn't perfect. He's great at making old connections to forgotten characters.. but there's been some decisions that yes, will always be stuck in my Kraw. It just hasn't felt like the book i loved for a long time now. You're having your day, enjoy. Just don't be an ass to those with a different opinion.

How am I being an ass towards you?

I just mentioned that not every upset fan gets a verbal beatdown from creators... which you even said " it can be funny when it's ridiculous "...

And please... everything's gone MY way?

I've been reading/collecting Spider-Man books since 1975, and in that near 40 year span, not every things has gone "MY" way... and when it does, I can choose to stop reading... and I've come close many times, and I did once (1997).

Nonetheless, I think I'm allowed to have an opinion towards what you said, and enter a civil discussion with said opinions... so IF you have a response besides telling me to stop being an ass... which I was not... then let's have at it..

 

[Dan_Slott]

The guy who runs my comic shop gets into constant fights with (Wacker and Slott) over at BleedingCool. I've read a few of the disagreements and Slott and Wacker were just as bad as him and those agreeing with him.

You shop at Bob Justice's store? THAT EXPLAINS EVERYTHING!

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Spiderboy, you raise a good point. I don't carr about change. I care about sloppy storytelling that can at times appear to be egotism and outright negligence of the stewardship of legacy/canon. Then there are decisions that effectively change the general premise too much. It is important to retain the general premise when making compromises with other story elements.

Thank you!

Yeah one arc that really pissed me off was when Lizard went all feral before Grimm Hunt... Hated the fact they made him Eat Billy Connors.. and conveniently also ignored the fact Billy also has the lizard serum in his body thanks to Sensational Spider-Man during Back in Black...

I was also a bit surprised that there was absolutely no mention of Calypso in Grimm Hunt, and also kinda shocked the Jameson's had no moment over the death of Mattie Franklin (didn't she live with them for a while?)

those may seem little in comparison to OMD, but small things add up. Felicia's character development also got washed down the drain.. which really upset me too.. she's one of my favorite spidey characters

 

[spideyboy_1111]

How am I being an ass towards you?

I just mentioned that not every upset fan gets a verbal beatdown from creators... which you even said " it can be funny when it's ridiculous "...

And please... everything's gone MY way?

I've been reading/collecting Spider-Man books since 1975, and in that near 40 year span, not every things has gone "MY" way... and when it does, I can choose to stop reading... and I've come close many times, and I did once (1997).

Nonetheless, I think I'm allowed to have an opinion towards what you said, and enter a civil discussion with said opinions... so IF you have a response besides telling me to stop being an ass... which I was not... then let's have at it..

oh i dunno.. you come off very very smug, and often condescending to those who don't share your view. You're just not very forward about it.. much like british humor... it's there, but it's not always in your face

and by "everything is going your way" i mean currently obviously.. specifically talking post bnd, in which for the most part, you've been happier than a clam.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Every time Slott comes here and chats he is pretty awesome and seems like a really nice guy.

The only time I've seen him get snappy at people is when he basically tells people to get over One More Day. Can't say I disagree with him, he's probably sick of people bringing it up.

I love Slott as he's one of the few writers that respect continuity and uses it to further enrich his writing.