The Superman Look: Shaping Superman

[Justice Bringer]

Stop acting like you have a case here people. You're embarrassing yourselves.

And what exactly is significant about this picture? She isnt scanning his face or trying to analyse his features closely. In fact, she has so little attention payed on Clark that she gets totally distracted from what he was trying to say the second Jason shows up.

She knows Superman intimately; shes barely payed attention to Clark. Interestingly enough, Richard was actually the one who noticed a similarity between Clark and Superman; and they laughed at the ridiculousness of such a theory.

 

[sepharih]

superman is based in a fantasy world, completely non-realistic...stop trying to rationalise something that is the figment of another person's imagination. if we were having this "debate" in person, the sight of you 'laughing hysterically' in my face would only make me want to slap you...and, galvanise my belief that you are a giant turd.

ARE YOU KIDDDING ME?!?! You have to be kidding me! Please tell me you're kidding me! Did you even bother reading my posts on THIS PAGE?
Let me quote one of my posts from the top:

People are trying WAY too hard to rationalize something which is inherently irrational. There is absolutely no logical explanation that exists for why people don’t recognize that Superman is Clark Kent. Stop searching for one. It doesn’t exist. People don’t recognize him because the myth requires that they don’t, period. Trying to act like there’s an explanation beyond that is...well...silly.

Or how about this one:

None of this matters in the first place. We're talking about myth here. It doesn't need to stand up to logical scrutiny.

My whole point is that this situation is unrealistic. My beef has nothing to do with the fact that people don't recognize Supes because he wears glasses. I have no problem with that.
My problem is that people are trying to make the claim that Superman being bulked up is unrealistic because people would notice this when he was Clark Kent. My entire point is that this is a "fantasy world" where traditional logic does not apply, as evident by the fact that people do not recognize he is Clark Kent anyway, despite looking exactly the same. Now, people are actually disputing that and are trying, embarrassingly, to say that there is some kind of plausibility to the Clark Kent disguise...which is even more absurd.
Is there any part about that you did not understand?

Man...you people are a riot!

And what exactly is significant about this picture?

She's looking directly at him.

Richard was actually the one who noticed a similarity between Clark and Superman; and they laughed at the ridiculousness of such a theory.

Oh...you can't be serious. That scene was a JOKE by the writers to point out the absurdity of the situation. Honestly...no rational person would ever seriously try to argue that the Clark Kent disguise is possible. Please, I implore you, seek help.

 

[manofsteel4life]

ARE YOU KIDDDING ME?!?! You have to be kidding me! Please tell me you're kidding me! Did you even bother reading my posts on THIS PAGE?
Let me quote one of my posts from the top:

Or how about this one:


My whole point is that this situation is unrealistic. My beef has nothing to do with the fact that people don't recognize Supes because he wears glasses. I have no problem with that.
My problem is that people are trying to make the claim that Superman being bulked up is unrealistic because people would notice this when he was Clark Kent. My entire point is that this is a "fantasy world" where traditional logic does not apply, as evident by the fact that people do not recognize he is Clark Kent anyway, despite looking exactly the same. Now, people are actually disputing that and are trying, embarrassingly, to say that there is some kind of plausibility to the Clark Kent disguise...which is even more absurd.
Is there any part about that you did not understand?

Man...you people are a riot!


She's looking directly at him.


Oh...you can't be serious. That scene was a JOKE by the writers to point out the absurdity of the situation. Honestly...no rational person would ever seriously try to argue that the Clark Kent disguise is possible. Please, I implore you, seek help.

you keep saying we dont understand, but its you not understanding our point....i dont know if you've ever been in love before....but just picture falling deeply in love for someone.....but she turns out to be a fugitive on the run.....but you've fell in love with from the get go.....she on the other hand has been leading a double life.....warrents and pictures have been put up all over your town decribing her appearence from head to toe....but she changes her style everything so she is totally diferent to you....now tell me if you would even have the slightest clue that it would be your love, your heart, that would even come close to being a criminal, not until you yourself start noticing the clues, then would start looking at her closely

 

[sepharih]

you keep saying we dont understand, but its you not understanding our point....i dont know if you've ever been in love before....but just picture falling deeply in love for someone.....but she turns out to be a fugitive on the run.....but you've fell in love with from the get go.....she on the other hand has been leading a double life.....warrents and pictures have been put up all over your town decribing her appearence from head to toe....but she changes her style everything so she is totally diferent to you....now tell me if you would even have the slightest clue that it would be your love, your heart, that would even come close to being a criminal, not until you yourself start noticing the clues, then would start looking at her closely

You can't be for real. Ok...I’ll play along.

1. How much does she change her appearance anyway? Let’s say glasses, hairstyle, stance, demeanor, clothing style, and even hair color for good measure. There’s a good chance I’d probably just walk right on by these images that were posted up without looking anyway. However, if I ever eventually took the time to look at one there’s a good chance I’d make the connection.

2. Number 1 is actually irrelevant in how it applies to Lois in the first place, because Lois has not only seen Supes in disguise, she has regular conversation with him all the time. In her situation you can bet your ass I would have recognized them.

3. Lots of guys fantasize about being with a bad girl anyway.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Not when that person has a face which is literally seen and posted everywhere it's not. This isn't just some guy we're talking about here. It's Superman. Even if the majority of people would just walk buy, there would be someone who would have looked for just long enough to make the connection.
And everyone is still ducking the fact that he has regular conversation in both identities with a lot of people, sometimes mere moments apart, and they still fail to recognize him.
Please, by all means, give it a try. Assuming you don't already have them, get yourself some glasses, comb your hair a different way, adopt a different stance, and then walk up to one of your friends to see if you get recognized. Don't be surprised when they say, "Dude...what's with the new look?"

None of this matters in the first place. We're talking about myth here. It doesn't need to stand up to logical scrutiny.

when preparing for his role in the movie collateral, tom cruise (tom f**king cruise) was sent around town in a fed-ex uniform delivering packages to people, all day long (mind you, this was even in LA). all day delivering packages, not one person recognized him.

 

[manofsteel4life]

You can't be for real. Ok...I’ll play along.

1. How much does she change her appearance anyway? Let’s say glasses, hairstyle, stance, demeanor, clothing style, and even hair color for good measure. There’s a good chance I’d probably just walk right on by these images that were posted up without looking anyway. However, if I ever eventually took the time to look at one there’s a good chance I’d make the connection.

2. Number 1 is actually irrelevant in how it applies to Lois in the first place, because Lois has not only seen Supes in disguise, she has regular conversation with him all the time. In her situation you can bet your ass I would have recognized them.

3. Lots of guys fantasize about being with a bad girl anyway.

lol...well i wasnt really trying to turn this into a kinky way of looking at the comparison, but i have to agree with you there....you stated that Lois talks to Supes all the time.....exactly...but she hasnt really spent that much time with Clark...how do you know if she even thinks that supes uses disguised identity?

 

[Orko Is King]

Read this:

http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/wizard/005275009.cfm


Finally, someone gets it.

I for one am glad Superman isn't juicing like Ronnie Coleman anymore. FYI, Ronnie is 5'11'' and just shy of 300 lbs. and Superman is 6'3'' and 225 lbs.

 

[sepharih]

when preparing for his role in the movie collateral, tom cruise (tom f**king cruise) was sent around town in a fed-ex uniform delivering packages to people, all day long (mind you, this was even in LA). all day delivering packages, not one person recognized him.

Who? kidding
That's one story, covering one day. How many other stories can you find of celebrities who are spotted abroad. Remember my comments about that nagging one percent a page or so back, or how I commented that no Actor or celebrity of any kind could hope to match his Q rating in the context of the DCU? It's absurd to think that no one would have ever recognized him in the time he's been operating.
And let me remind you again, regardless of the public, there is no plausible explanation for why those who have had regular encounters with both his identities don't recognize him. Go ahead. Try and rationalize it.

you stated that Lois talks to Supes all the time.....exactly...but she hasnt really spent that much time with Clark...how do you know if she even thinks that supes uses disguised identity?

They talk to each other all the time at the planet. The films follow Donner continuity and we know Clark took her out at least once, directly after taking her on a night time flight. Remember that night they worked together on their respective stories in returns...when his glasses fell off at exactly the right moment. She's seen him more than enough to recognize him.

 

[manofsteel4life]

Who? kidding
That's one story, covering one day. How many other stories can you find of celebrities who are spotted abroad. Remember my comments about that nagging one percent a page or so back, or how I commented that no Actor or celebrity of any kind could hope to match his Q rating in the context of the DCU? It's absurd to think that no one would have ever recognized him in the time he's been operating.
And let me remind you again, regardless of the public, there is no plausible explanation for why those who have had regular encounters with both his identities don't recognize him. Go ahead. Try and rationalize it.


They talk to each other all the time at the planet. The films follow Donner continuity and we know Clark took her out at least once, directly after taking her on a night time flight. Remember that night they worked together on their respective stories in returns...when his glasses fell off at exactly the right moment. She's seen him more than enough to recognize him.

yea in the donner films, she did figure it out, and supes gave her that super kiss remember?....then when supes comes back he never really spent time with her as Clark. And when he drops his glasses, she never looks up at his face.... if you recall she's was so rapped up on picking up all the items that fell out of her bag, that she just hands Clark his glasses without even looking up...did you notice how clark paused before, he put the glasses back on, like he wanted to tell her that he was supes

 

[sepharih]

yea in the donner films, she did figure it out, and supes gave her that super kiss remember?....then when supes comes back he never really spent time with her as Clark.

Are you suggesting that ALL of her memories, even those from Superman 1 were erased? She still recognizes Clark after the kiss so I think it's safe to assume that's not the case.

And when he drops his glasses, she never looks up at his face.... if you recall she's was so rapped up on picking up all the items that fell out of her bag, that she just hands Clark his glasses without even looking up...did you notice how clark paused before, he put the glasses back on, like he wanted to tell her that he was supes

Yes I did. That wasn't my point. During all of this, even after he has put his glasses back on, she still looks directly at him. Their exchange of words is not an uncommon event. If this were the real world she would have seen through the disguise long ago.

 

[manofsteel4life]

Are you suggesting that ALL of her memories, even those from Superman 1 were erased? She still recognizes Clark after the kiss so I think it's safe to assume that's not the case.

no, he erased her suspicison
Yes I did. That wasn't my point. During all of this, even after he has put his glasses back on, she still looks directly at him. Their exchange of words is not an uncommon event. If this were the real world she would have seen through the disguise long ago.

yea, in most cases you would, but Lois's mind was not on that. If anything her mind was on how ashamed she felt, because Clark found the cigarettes....ok...im gonna try to compare another situation, if this doesnt work, i guess there is no need anymore to try get you to understand.....but have you ever noticed someone you knew from a long time ago, from wherever, whether in a store or a event, and that person looks right at you, and doesnt even realize who you are, even after you are right in front of them?....cause their mind hasnt jogged back....your brain tells you what you are seeing, not the other way round

 

[sepharih]

yea, in most cases you would, but Lois's mind was not on that. If anything her mind was on how ashamed she felt, because Clark found the cigarettes

I don’t care what her mind is on. Forget the part with the cigarettes. How about the part where she hugs and welcomes him back? How about the part where she talks about her feelings toward Superman while she’s trying to grab a cab? How about the part concerning their “relationship”? If we judge from a real world perspective, then frankly I don’t think her mind is on anything.

....ok...im gonna try to compare another situation, if this doesnt work, i guess there is no need anymore to try get you to understand.....but have you ever noticed someone you knew from a long time ago, from wherever, whether in a store or a event, and that person looks right at you, and doesnt even realize who you are, even after you are right in front of them?....cause their mind hasnt jogged back....your brain tells you what you are seeing, not the other way round

Yes, but before you go anywhere this has absolutely no bearing on Lois’ situation at all. Remember, she recognized BOTH Superman and Clark Kent when she saw them...she just fails to connect the fact that they’re the same person, even when they both arrived back into her life on the exact same day.

 

[manofsteel4life]

I don’t care what her mind is on. Forget the part with the cigarettes. How about the part where she hugs and welcomes him back? How about the part where she talks about her feelings toward Superman while she’s trying to grab a cab? How about the part concerning their “relationship”? If we judge from a real world perspective, then frankly I don’t think her mind is on anything.


Yes, but before you go anywhere this has absolutely no bearing on Lois’ situation at all. Remember, she recognized BOTH Superman and Clark Kent when she saw them...she just fails to connect the fact that they’re the same person, even when they both arrived back into her life on the exact same day.

yea, that's why she hasnt really thought of the comparison, that's what im trying to make you understand....Clark is the first one she met, then came supes....no matter how similar in a apearence, if they have two different personalities, you wont put two and two together till you start noticing and thinking about Clark

 

[sepharih]

yea, that's why she hasnt really thought of the comparison,

Then, judging from a real world perspective, Lois Lane is a complete airhead and may very well be the worst journalist alive.

that's what im trying to make you understand....Clark is the first one she met, then came supes....no matter how similar in a apearence, if they have two different personalities, you wont put two and two together till you start noticing and thinking about Clark

They look exactly the same. Think about it. They're both 6'4, square jawed, dark haired, blue eyed, decent looking guys. How hard do you really think this is?

 

[manofsteel4life]

Then, judging from a real world perspective, Lois Lane is a complete airhead and may very well be the worst journalist alive.


They look exactly the same. Think about it. They're both 6'4, square jawed, dark haired, blue eyed, decent looking guys. How hard do you really think this is?

but one would think supes would stoop that low to act like Clark....im not saying its impossible to figure out that they are same people, im just saying that its not the first choice to the think they are....that's why he can pull it off

 

[C. Lee]

This means absolutely nothing, as I have repeated several times. Even if we were to accept that 99% of the people who walk by him wouldn’t bat an eyelash there’s always that 1% that would have made the connection. More importantly, It still does not explain why the people who he talks too on a daily basis, who know both Superman and Clark Kent, fail to recognize him.
THERE IS NO PLAUSIBLE EXCUSE FOR THAT.

There is always the possibility of some strange Kryptonian effect in use. Maybe something about the Kryptonian material of the suit causes him to look different.......it's science fiction/fantasy....many possibilities.

Quite frankly I’m flabbergasted that the people who are arguing this point actually seem to believe they have a case. It’s rather embarrassing actually. If you actually think that Clark Kent’s disguise is plausible then I rank your sanity around the level of people who think that the Earth is only 6 thousand years old.

That was uncalled for.....keep the insults out of the discussion.

 

[ariellem]

Blah Blah Blah The same people I'd talked to every day didn't recognize me. They *jumped* when they realized it was me. Blah Blah Blah

No further comment necessary.

If you have a disagreement, fine. This is a discussion group. But you're way out of line with your rudeness, and not just to me.

As for the point you missed, Sepharih: in the instances I cited, neither I nor Tom Robbins was going around purposely trying to fool people into thinking I was someone else. We were not going around acting like two different people, with two different personalities and sets of mannerisms, one of those with superpowers. Yet people still had to make a conscious effort to recognize us. They had to add the out-of-context look and/or location to what they already knew about who they were looking at.

It's that simple.

As several other people here (and in other threads) have pointed out, there's no reason for Lois - or anyone - to assume that a superpowered hero is trudging around every day with a "real" job, acting like the rest of us. There's no reason for Lois - or anyone - to assume that good ol' buddy Clark (or good ol' stapler-lending Clark) has any personality other than the one(s) he shows them every day at his "real" job. Doesn't matter how much Supes and Clark look similar, physically - plenty of folks do celebrity impersonations as gigs, but how many of them do that 24/7/365? That's the part that Lois, etc. would have trouble wrapping their minds around: WHY would Clark/Supes be doing that? Fans in these threads can't even agree on the answer: is it Clark disguising himself as Superman, or the other way around? And we KNOW there's a disguise in front of our faces. If the folks in DC-world don't suspect sleight of persona (to mangle a phrase), then unless Clark slips up in one guise or the other, the folks watching just won't make a connection. People are on automatic more than anything else.

 

[slave2catwoman]

Makes sense. Some artists draw Supes ridiculously huge. Honestly, he looks like he weighs about four hundred pounds. He could never disguise himself as Clark.

 

[sepharih]

That was uncalled for.....keep the insults out of the discussion.

With all due respect, I must disagree.
The issue at hand has nothing to do with the science fiction/fantasy element of this character, and is not an issue of differing opinions. If that were the case it would be a non issue.
Several people on this thread are making the claim that Clark Kent’s disguise would actually work in the real world. They actually believe that this disguise is logical and plausible. This is irrational. As irrational as the example I used. Now how am I to respond to this? Cordially? Respectfully? Politely? If the answer is yes then you need not worry, for I will gladly take my leave here and now. I lack the patience to give such things dignity they do not deserve.

As for the point you missed, Sepharih...

I missed nothing. It's irrelevant and wasn't worth commenting on. Cute story though.

 

[Qwerty©]

Yes, some people on here are. And no, I’m not asking you to buy anything more ridiculous than you already are. You keep saying I am but no one on here has yet provided a cognitive argument as to why.

Because every time we do, you dismiss it. You don't like being proved wrong, so you ignore it. Here are a few examples:

Your attempt was “Because an actor can make it work. The eyes add a lot to acting, and nerdy glasses can significantly alter people's impression of a character.”, which is total nonsense.

Here you say acting is irrelevant when it comes to acting like a different person. That is what is total nonsense.

It’s absurd anyway, but the guy talks to people mere moments apart in both identities and they don’t recognize him. If you can buy that then you've got no grounds to call him having a body builder physique absurd.

Yes, I have. I think a Clark that size just makes things more ridiculous than they need to be. Do you understand? I'm not saying the disguise is not ridiculous, but it is not TOO ridiculous and people accept it, however if Clark is busting out of the seams of his clothes then that is far too ridiculous to accept, and it comes off more as being comical. It won't work. Period.

I think I’m probably just about done here. If people have been reduced to repeating, “well...it didn’t work in this amateurish fan film with a shoestring budget so there’s no way it could work in a Hollywood film” ad nauseam without realizing how completely non sequitur that logic is then I don’t think there’s really much more that can be said.

Here you are ignoring legitimate examples again. Your argument here would have credit if we were arguing his appearance as Superman or the special effects, but when it comes to Clark Kent, not so much. All Clark is, is a pair of glasses and a business suit. That doesn't require a massive budget (which for this particular fanfilm is $25,000 by the way, hardly a shoestring budget). So basically you have no reason to dismiss this example other than being afraid of being proven wrong.

The actor, Mike O' Hearn, who was 260 lbs in this film, looked ridiculous as Clark Kent, even more so than he should be, and more ridiculous and unbelievable than Routh. Period.

 

[Mr. Socko]

O'hearn was a joke, this fanfilm was terrible, not even batman/bartram could save it.

 

[C. Lee]

With all due respect, I must disagree.
The issue at hand has nothing to do with the science fiction/fantasy element of this character, and is not an issue of differing opinions. If that were the case it would be a non issue.
Several people on this thread are making the claim that Clark Kent’s disguise would actually work in the real world. They actually believe that this disguise is logical and plausible. This is irrational. As irrational as the example I used. Now how am I to respond to this? Cordially? Respectfully? Politely? If the answer is yes then you need not worry, for I will gladly take my leave here and now. I lack the patience to give such things dignity they do not deserve.

Then I guess we get to see if you are a man of your word....for I expect people to be cordial.....I expect people to be polite.....and I expect people to respect other's opinions, even if they don't agree with them.

 

[C. Lee]

O'hearn was a joke, this fanfilm was terrible, not even batman/bartram could save it.

I've heard mostly posititve reviews of that fanfilm. I personally liked it a lot. If you don't mind me asking, what other than O'Hearn did you not like about it? I know a couple of women in their 30's who really liked the look of O'Hearn.

 

[slave2catwoman]

About the secret identity bit. It would work if Superman and Clark didn't have the same group of friends. If Lois and company did not know Superrman personally, only got to see him flying by at super speeds, then it could work. But Lois, Jimmy, and Perry all know the man in both guises, and nobody figures it out?

By the way, I thought O'Hearn looked great in the costume.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I've heard mostly posititve reviews of that fanfilm. I personally liked it a lot. If you don't mind me asking, what other than O'Hearn did you not like about it? I know a couple of women in their 30's who really liked the look of O'Hearn.

LOL. Now that you ask me what other than O'Hearn that I didn't like about it, I don't have an answer. I was a bit harsh when I said the fanfilm was terrible, I will take that back. It was just O'Hearn that was terrible. I thought O'Hearn looked like a really big monkey. Take a look at this pic and look at his legs

http://item.slide.com/r/1/88/i/EI6y1EijpT_rRVvuOZIbtD8f96wWMc81/

And look at his Clark Kent. If this isn't a vanilla gorilla, I don't know what is

http://item.slide.com/r/1/88/i/2ONkJ2DoxT8CIqpxihc1JvPROJBVDYz6/ (he's the humongous one towering over everyone who sticks out like a sore thumb)

There's no way in hell that is Clark Kent, he is so big that they had to put the actor who plays Batman in lift boots. So I didn't mean the fanfilm was bad, it was ok, I just don't like O'Hearn. But btw, I love Bartram as Batman.