Revenge of the Fallen The Twins: Racist?

[Episode29]

Huh...an asian man in China. Racist bay!

A Chinese man in Fu Manchu garb is a tad different than what you are insinuating.

 

[The Black Goo]

Fine. But that is a contemporary reading. The problem is that the twins mirror the type of caricatures often presented in the early-mid 1900's. There is a historical pretext for what the twins are being accused of representing. It's not a simple "they're hip-hop kids" argument.

I can't argue with that and even if I did I would have no basis for it. lol.

Is it just the fact that it was in this movie? I mean I have seen a few movies with the current "subject matter" that seemed out of place.

 

[CelticPredator]

A Chinese man in Fu Manchu garb is a tad different than what you are insinuating.

Well...he just said an "asian man eating noodles"

 

[Episode29]

Well...he just said an "asian man eating noodles"

Yeah, I know. That's why I jumped in to specify.

 

[C. Lee]

Oh stop. He's been attacking us since the movie came out. Thats not fair. He needs to STOP acting like a whatever. I'd LOVE to discuss without name calling, and I have...but this is annoying.

And its not just name calling, its just these jerky remakers from these guys.

He wasn't calling you names in his posts....you called him a rude name in yours. I don't care if you like or hate what he says....do not call people names when discussing things.

 

[craigdbfan]

Oh there are QUITE a few people on this thread who claimed they were rednecks(that has died down some since more have seen the film and it's become undeniable who they were REALLY supposed to be)

Guilty.

Yeah I thought they were supposed to be rednecks when I learned about them through leaked information, toy bios, and Bay's description of "Just funny and dumb characters" (can't believe this is Bay's idea of funny..).

Now its obvious that they were making fun of wannabe gangsters (from any race). The Twins discovered these personalities on the internet and found them relatable for whatever reason. As some have said even if Michael Bay didn't do this in purpose but the Twins are the perfect example how some people regardless of race will find certain behavior worth imitating.

 

[CelticPredator]

He wasn't calling you names in his posts....you called him a rude name in yours. I don't care if you like or hate what he says....do not call people names when discussing things.

Ayiyi.
Theres no winning anything.

No. He wasnt calling ME names. But he and all the other people who didnt like the movie are attacking everyone who enjoyed the movie.

Seeing it in IMAX, and will buy Skids and Mudflap tomorrow.

 

[Superfreak]

I haven't seen the film yet but I'm disturbed at the sheer number of reviews or commentaries I've read of late that suggest these twin Autobots are racist stereotypes. The most scathing commentary has been from Devin Farachi at Chud...

TRANSFORMERS' LITTLE BLACK SAMBOTS?
By Devin Faraci Published Today News


I am not a PC person. Those who know me in real life will attest that if an off-color, offensive or wildly juvenile joke needs to be made it'll likely be me making it. I think people are too sensitive in the modern world, and I don't think any topic is off-limits when it comes to laughs.

That said, even I was stupefied by what I saw in Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen's Twins. These new robots, who begin the film conjoined as a ****** old ice cream truck but who soon get upgraded into Chevy concept cars, seem to be the most extreme racial caricatures seen in a movie in decades. The Twins have a simian appearance, with wide faces and huge ears. One of them (full disclosure: I am not sure which is which, namewise. This isn't a problem limited to just these robots in Transformers 2 as I couldn't tell most robots apart, except for Optimus Prime and Bumblebee) has a gold bucktooth. They have a 'playful' back and forth relationship, which includes them talking in some sort of modern day rap-age jive, calling each other '*****-ass' or 'punk,' talking with an exaggerated, crunked-up 'street' accent. They appear to be stoned all the time. And they can't read; when asked to translate some ancient Cybertronian language they sheepishly admit they 'don't do much readin'.' To be fair, only Primes can read this language, but even the completely idiotic mini-bot (and Italian stereotype) Wheelie can at least recognize what the writing is. The Twins are completely illiterate, it seems. I was actually surprised that the film didn't find a way to make them wear a Transformers version of baggy pants.

To be completely shocked by this is admittedly kind of foolish. Quite a bit was made of Jazz, the black Autobot in the first film, who did a breakdance move and got killed. But The Twins make Jazz look like a paragon of taste, and they make Jar Jar Binks look like he belongs in a production of A Raisin in the Sun. Simply put they are offensive beyond measure, and if their names were Stepin and Fetchit I could maybe argue that they were a joke or a bit of meta-commentary or anything except horrible, horrible racial stereotypes.

At the press conference for the film I asked writer Alex Kurtzman about the characters. 'I think a lot of what we did was following Michael's lead,' he said. 'Those characters, more than any other, he had the strongest instinct for. Our job was to keep up with him.'

Buck passed! So then it was all Michael Bay's idea to have these shucking and jiving bots, right?

Not so fast. Bay was eager to give all the credit for the Twins to Tom Kenny, the (white) voice actor. 'When you work with voice actors, especially with the twins, they did a lot of improv for their parts. We liked their improv and, from there, we would animate to their stuff. When you're doing character animation and you're building the character, it's not like an actor where you shoot the scene and you've got it and you move on. With animation, you get the dialogue and then some animation and then a bit more of the dialogue and you keep going back and forth and it just builds until you have the shot you want.'

(For the record, Bay mentions a second voice actor while IMDB lists Kenny as the voice of both bots)

Bay went on to say that his vision of the Twins is that he wanted bots with whom the younger audience could really identify, and the funny thing is that I actually believe him. I don't think he set out to make two grotesque caricatures; I think he honestly believes these characters reflect some aspect of youth culture and not just a cartoony, broad vision of black youth. Bay's films have never been all that racially sensitive (and blacks aren't the only group to take a hit in this film; as mentioned above, Wheelie is a flat-out dago, even going so far as to refer to ancient Transformer Jetfire as 'da Chairman of da Board,' and there's some choice Arabic humor in the film as well), but the Twins surely represent an all-time low.

Would they have been as offensive if Bay had gotten a black actor for the voices? There certainly would be less of a feeling of weirdness if Katt Williams had come in for some shucking and jiving, although it would still have been... off. Bay's defense seems to be that Tom Kenny came in and just Sambo'd it up, as if he had no way of knowing what sort of racially insensitive schtick the actor would bring. That's hugely unlikely; Bay isn't prisoner to the whims of his actors, especially not a voice actor.

What the whole Twins debacle really reveals, though, is the sheer lack of adult supervision on this film. Transformers 2 is hugely bloated, incoherent, stupid and boring, seemingly all because Bay was free to indulge in his most Bayish impulses. The first film is rescued by the restraining hand of Spielberg; that hand is noticeably gone here. It's stunning to think that anyone in the 21st century looked at the character designs of the Twins or listened to the voice tracks and thought that this was 'okay.'




WOW. What do you guys think? I've heard they're Jar Jar levels of annoying but do you feel it's so...how do I put this?...Non P.C., that's it's ridiculous? I can't say for sure until I see the film but I am concerned.

in this day and age, talking like an idiot ghetto rat, has nothing to do with race... anymore. How many wannabe thug white dudes, asian dudes, EE dudes.... have I met in my life that talk like came straight from gang den?: FAR TO MANY

 

[Episode29]

I can't argue with that and even if I did I would have no basis for it. lol.

Is it just the fact that it was in this movie? I mean I have seen a few movies with the current "subject matter" that seemed out of place.

Yeah, for sure the ghetto hip-hop stereotype is heavily used. No arguments. Is it potentially offensive? Yeah. But it doesn't provoke much ire any more.

It's the facial features and "minstrel-like" behaviour, essentially using historically famous racially charged antics purely to be laughed at, that's the problem. The twins really have no purpose within the film other than to act like idiots for a laugh. There's nothing wrong with comic relief, but when it seems entirely inspired and derived from racial stereotyping, it becomes a cause for concern.

 

[Episode29]

What if the Twins were designed to resemble Asian stereotypes, with squinty eyes and chubby cheeks, and talked about eating Sam's dogs, and complained about their small penises and poor eyesight? Is that racist?

Do you really have to ask?

 

[Episode29]

Well, it's same thing as portraying the Twins as illiterate, gold-toothed, thugs who speak ebonics.

And...

rac⋅ism  /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
Use racism in a Sentence
–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

 

[chaseter]

There was an Asian man in Shanghai eating noodles! Who would have thought! Way to go racist Bay.

 

[Episode29]

There was an Asian man in Shanghai eating noodles! Who would have thought! Way to go racist Bay.

Way to parrot an already made comment.

Instead on making repetetive stupid comments, which do little beyond emphasizing your own immaturity and lack of comprehensive abilities, why not actually try to add to the discussion or make a legitimate point.

 

[chaseter]

Way to parrot an already made comment.

Instead on making repetetive stupid comments, which do little beyond emphasizing your own immaturity and lack of comprehensive abilities, why not actually try to add to the discussion or make a legitimate point.

Why do you keep parroting your same comments in a thread in which you have already made your point over and over again

You thought the twins were racist, so you can leave this thread now You already proved that you were racist because you believe that the twins represent the entire black race.

 

[Episode29]

Why do you keep parroting your same comments in a thread in which you have already made your point over and over again

You thought the twins were racist, so you can leave this thread now You already proved that you were racist because you believe that the twins represent the entire black race.

Parroting implies mimickry.

I'm engaging in debate, discussing various facets of the argument with other individuals.

I'm actually saddened that you're 24 and behaving like this. Life is going to prove very difficult for you.

 

[chaseter]

Parroting implies mimickry.

I'm engaging in debate, discussing various facets of the argument with other individuals.

I'm actually saddened that you're 24 and behaving like this. Life is going to prove very difficult for you.

Please ****. You are discussing the same argument and repeating the same points over and over again with the same people.

You have already been proven wrong multiple times and you were even proven to be racist. You think that all blacks act like the twins. Congratulations...you win!

 

[Episode29]

Please ****. You are discussing the same argument and repeating the same points over and over again with the same people.

You have already been proven wrong multiple times and you were even proven to be racist. You think that all blacks act like the twins. Congratulations...you win!

Wow. And they say that education rates are dropping.

24... *walks off laughing*.

 

[chaseter]

Bye

I wish I had the mentality that all african americans wear gold teeth and speak like that. You sir are a inspiration to everyone.

 

[C. Lee]

Stop attacking each other and discuss the movie.

 

[The Black Goo]

Stop attacking each other and discuss the movie.

haha C beat me to it. But I am going to post it anyway.

This thread should be used to discuss things civily and I see alot of people getting really personal or upset about the subject. I'm not a mod, but if people can't handle this he said, she said, then there are plenty of other threads to post in. I just don't see this thread ending very well.

 

[Episode29]

haha C beat me to it. But I am going to post it anyway.

This thread should be used to discuss things civily and I see alot of people getting really personal or upset about the subject. I'm not a mod, but if people can't handle this he said, she said, then there are plenty of other threads to post in. I just don't see this thread ending very well.

Well, that would fitting as it didn't start particularly well either...

It does seem, though, that some people are simply using the thread as an excuse to make wise-cracks than engage in actual discussion. I honestly think there's a lot of validity to this debate, and hopefully it can get back on track.

 

[chaseter]

Yeah well if someone attacks me, I dish it back...just sayin.

The twins weren't racist. They were stereotypes. End of thread.

C Lee working on his birthday...what a champ:heart::meow:

 

[The Black Goo]

Yeah well if someone attacks me, I dish it back...just sayin.

The twins weren't racist. They were stereotypes. End of thread.

here here ::cheers::

edit: Happy B C!

 

[Superfreak]

Yeah well if someone attacks me, I dish it back...just sayin.

The twins weren't racist. They were stereotypes. End of thread.

they weren't even racial stereotypes, they were idiot post 2000 urban thug language stereotypes. They reminded me more of David Silver from 90210, than a black dude. The twins: white dudes, who speak like they are 'black'...

 

[chaseter]

Well you could consider urban thug as a stereotype. I just thought they were stupid brothers that speak thuggish. I never once said to myself, wow...that reminds be of a black person. Why? Because not all african americans, none that I know or see, and in general, do not all act or talk that way. Saying the way they acted was racist, that it was directly in regards to african americans, is not only slanderous towards that race, it is also seen as biggotry because you think that they represent that entire race. In other words, if you think they reminded you of African Americans, then that means you yourself are racist because that is how you see that race.