The Villains Problem

[Lantern Venom]

FINALLY! The main villain in GOTG is the best one in a CBM in a long time.

After some initial skepticism, I was pleasantly surprised. When I first learned that he was..

Spoiler

Peter Quill's father

...I thought he was going to be an INO or a Parallax-type of blunder where multiple characters were amalgamated with questionable results. That wasn't the case as GotG2 drew several key character aspects from the comics and made a unique villain.

 

[jaymes_e06]

FINALLY! The main villain in GOTG is the best one in a CBM in a long time. We had been long overdue for a truly fantastic villain.

I agree. As a person who hated the first one GoTG2 was really awesome and part of what made it so great was Kurt Russel being there adding his gravitas. Best de facto villian by Marvel so far!

 

[NealKenneth]

They aren't done with Zemo yet.

The dude killed Black Panther's father and is still alive. Do you think the writers are just going to just leave him in prison? I feel it's pretty much guaranteed we'll get to see him do some fencing eventually, but unfortunately it sounds like we might never see him in that amazing costume...let's hope!

As for Ego, I actually think he's the worst villain we've had since Killian. First of all, the heroes were all highly skeptical of him from the moment he appeared, so it was very obvious he would become the main villain...but then the actual "twist" didn't happen until at least an hour later. That made every scene he appeared in until then pretty boring, especially since so much of the dialogue he gave during that time was exposition. Explaining who he was, explaining where they were, explaining what Quill could do, explaining his relationship with Quill's mother, blah blah blah and all the time I'm just hoping he'll get on with it already. Then when it finally happened and the evil plan was finally revealed, it all seemed rather contrived...what exactly was it about having a second Celestial that took Ego's plan from dead in the water to nearly completed in like a second? If it really was just a matter of energy, surely it would have made more sense to Ego to transform planets one at a time instead of trying to create another Celestial, especially once he discovered that wasn't working for the thousandth time.

By the end of it, it's purely a battle for surival because Ego has nothing to tempt Quill or any of the Guardians with. That's not a very interesting conflict.

But, for me, the weirdest thing about Ego supposedly being a great villain is that everyone who says so seems to give a pass to the moment when he reveals to Quill that he gave his mother a brain tumor. Not only was there no point to him saying this, but it is something that neither Quill nor any of the heroes had any chance of finding out ever. Had Ego not been an utter moron, it looked like Quill was seconds away from going along with his plan. Talk about convenient!

The final insult is that, even if the heros had somehow discovered the truth themselves (like say, Ego had confided about his guilt with Mantis and she ends up revealing the truth about how Quill's mother died) it STILL wouldn't make sense. Ego supposedly loved Quill's mother, but even if he didn't, why would he choose such a slow and painful way to kill her?

 

[Ivan Drago]

Ego was okay. Kurt Russell was fun, but I felt his character was there just to explain things to Peter. It got pretty tiresome after a while.

His best scene is when he plays Catch with Peter.

 

[BoredGuy]

We have Loki, Zemo, Pierce, kind of Bucky, [BLACKOUT]Ego[/BLACKOUT] and Cate Blanchett/Hela on the way

Plus a decent Ultron, Red Skull, Ronan, Abomination and Killian

compared to just a few true duds

Once again, imo:
MARVEL HAS NO VILLAIN PROBLEM

 

[NealKenneth]

MARVEL HAS NO VILLAIN PROBLEM

I agree with this. There have been some misfires (Killian, Ultron, GOTG2) and dud moments (Phase 1 final battle dialogue got very cringe at times) but mostly I think the villains are good.

People gotta consider how much screentime these guys get. Loki is just about the only guy who has shown up in more than one film and everyone likes him. I don't think that's a coincidence. Think about it: if Darth Vader had died at the end of Episode 4, how great of a villain would he be? IMO there's no good reason many of the villains have disappeared besides the fact that we've seen them die.

If there is a villain problem, it's that so many of them are one and done. My opinion is that these guys should be treated like the heroes, showing up again and again.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Now that Marvel has a borrow of the king himself, hopefully his rogues gallery can fix the problem that the MCU has had -- especially when they eventually revisit Norman Osborn again.

 

[dax]

I agree with this. There have been some misfires (Killian, Ultron, GOTG2) and dud moments (Phase 1 final battle dialogue got very cringe at times) but mostly I think the villains are good.

People gotta consider how much screentime these guys get. Loki is just about the only guy who has shown up in more than one film and everyone likes him. I don't think that's a coincidence. Think about it: if Darth Vader had died at the end of Episode 4, how great of a villain would he be? IMO there's no good reason many of the villains have disappeared besides the fact that we've seen them die.

If there is a villain problem, it's that so many of them are one and done. My opinion is that these guys should be treated like the heroes, showing up again and again.

Thanos has appeared in more than 1 film (even if they are cameo appearances) and will soon make some noise in Avengers: Infinity War. Samuel Jackson hinted that Red Skull will return in Infinity War and I wish I could also include Winter Soldier but he's not really a villain. Baron Mordo will soon become a villain in the Dr. Strange sequel and Dormamau will return as well. Lastly, I have a feeling that Hela will make it out of Thor: Ragnarok alive so that she can stand beside Thanos in both Avengers 3 & 4.

 

[NealKenneth]

If most of the things you predict are true, and by 2020 we still don't have good villains...THEN I would say Marvel has a villain problem.

 

[DrCosmic]

We have Loki, Zemo, Pierce, kind of Bucky, [BLACKOUT]Ego[/BLACKOUT] and Cate Blanchett/Hela on the way

Plus a decent Ultron, Red Skull, Ronan, Abomination and Killian

compared to just a few true duds

Once again, imo:
MARVEL HAS NO VILLAIN PROBLEM

Disagree, disagree, disagree, disagree and DISAGREE

Ultron was a shadow of his comic self, neutered and self defeating and completely out of sync with the theme of the film, not a creation of the Avengers or a reflection of them despite the movie saying so over and over. He was a puppet with Spader's charm, and carried all the menace of such, as opposed to an uber death robot with a real sense of humor. This was one of the MCU's greatest travesties for me personally, far worse than Mandarin or whatever.

Red Skull as also neutered, not just thematically, as the removal of the Nazi elements is understandable to a degree, but this was the most impotent villain of recent CBMs other than Trevor Slattery. Not only that, but he failed to provide the hero any kind of challenge, he doesn't even have the decency to be defeated by Captain America, but grabs the cube and suicides himself after he takes a good hit.

Ronan, the judge of humanity's worthiness in 616, is turned into the least interesting genocidal maniac I've ever seen put to film. He accuses no one, because all of his character has been excised. He is a plot device every bit as galling as Malekith, simply with a cooler design. Not as neutered as Red Skull or Ultron, sure, but still... who the heck is this guy? No one knew, no one cared. Korath, with half the screen time, was a better villain, which is why his death was more satisfying.

Abomination promised so much, Captain America-ing on the Hulk without a Hulk serum, and then grown big it just became a generic knock down beat up, emphasizing the mind boggling lack of technique in not only the final fight, but in the filmmaking of the final third of the film. This is the case in point of MCU's villain problem, when the movie doesn't create an exceptionally magnetic lead, it falls apart, because the final conflict is uninteresting, because the villains are meaningless, made worse because Blonsky was meaningful during the first half of the film. Him with Hulk seemed so scary, but the result? Not really a problem. I remember Omar's cameo better than that fight.

And Killian, Killian, Killian. Killian works as a decent villain in almost any other film, but as a twist for IM3 in particular, he feels Shayamalan like. They did the whole 'no you don't get a cool new CBM-type villain, you get a boring business man' which has meaning, but they didn't have the decency to make him a boring businessman either, they went ahead with giving him a full suite of powers, and a 'costume' of sorts with his Fing Fang Foom tats. In this, he ALSO fails the themes of the film because he never brings his mind against Tony's to show Tony himself is the Iron Man, not the suit. His whole motif, being someone who is NOT mad at Tony is lost because the twist takes us back to same ol' same ol' town, just minus the CBM villain we all came to see. And on Slattery, who is always connected to discussion of Killian as a villain, no disrespect to Ben Kingsley, if they're going to twist Mandarin into a joke, why NOT cast an actual Chinese person or Chinese American? Man...

This is not to say that I didn't enjoy all of these films, but it was despite the weakness of the villains, not because of them. This is on top of the duds, which I think might outnumber the actual good villains.

Now, we could argue whether or not this is an actual problem - it doesn't really seem to be - but MCU villains regularly disappoint, because such awesome versions have existed in comics. It's a slightly less onerous version of Fox's Dr. Dooms, it's like, when it comes to villains, MCU: DO YOU EVEN COMICS, BRO?

 

[HammerDown]

I must say i was a bit disappointed by Ultron. Not that he was bad but just that he could have been so much better. It was such a cool and menacing design/character... but then they kinda water it down with it being a mirror image of Tony Stark. I wanted a more menacing villain and i could have lived without his "jokes". And the voice was really cool but by giving that quippy/joking vibe to him kinda ruined it in a way.

In terms of Marvel villains i am expecting Hela/Cate Blanchett to be amazing. A showstopper.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Now, we could argue whether or not this is an actual problem - it doesn't really seem to be - but MCU villains regularly disappoint, because such awesome versions have existed in comics.

Somebody who gets it.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

[blackout]Ego the Living Planet[/blackout] was way better than he ever was in the comics.

 

[Patchwork Man]

[blackout]Ego the Living Planet[/blackout] was way better than he ever was in the comics.

Because he has a [BLACKOUT]penis[/BLACKOUT]?

 

[DrCosmic]

Because he has a [BLACKOUT]penis[/BLACKOUT]?

No, because he was a [BLACKOUT]dick.[/BLACKOUT]. Ego was a cool character concept, but his existence was the most interesting thing about in him in the comics. His character in GOTGv2 was worth hearing what he had to say, which was pretty cool. I think all the great villains in the MCU are so because they are improvements on the originals, they take what works, and make them work for the medium. Loki goes from jealous brother generic trickster to a guy with legitimate issue with Thor's rule. Pierce goes from nobody to Robert Redford desk mastermind, Bucky from silver age turned gritty and badass to a conflicted automaton, Zemo from a purple clad fencer to the most subtle and subversive villain I may have ever seen, and [blackout]Ego? Don't even get me started on the improvements."[/blackout] The MCU does best with villains that are underdeveloped or weak in comics. If I'm right, Hela will be awesome, Ayesha will be awesome, and we'll be reading articles about great female villains in a few years, while Thanos will be another disappointment when compared with his awesomeness in comics. Though there's always a chance they could pull a Zemo and make a really interesting original character and name him a classic comics character.

Spoiler

Can you believe that James Gunn made Ego being a villain into a spoiler?

 

[Mjölnir]

No, because he was a [BLACKOUT]dick.[/BLACKOUT]. Ego was a cool character concept, but his existence was the most interesting thing about in him in the comics. His character in GOTGv2 was worth hearing what he had to say, which was pretty cool. I think all the great villains in the MCU are so because they are improvements on the originals, they take what works, and make them work for the medium. Loki goes from jealous brother generic trickster to a guy with legitimate issue with Thor's rule. Pierce goes from nobody to Robert Redford desk mastermind, Bucky from silver age turned gritty and badass to a conflicted automaton, Zemo from a purple clad fencer to the most subtle and subversive villain I may have ever seen, and [blackout]Ego? Don't even get me started on the improvements."[/blackout] The MCU does best with villains that are underdeveloped or weak in comics. If I'm right, Hela will be awesome, Ayesha will be awesome, and we'll be reading articles about great female villains in a few years, while Thanos will be another disappointment when compared with his awesomeness in comics. Though there's always a chance they could pull a Zemo and make a really interesting original character and name him a classic comics character.

Spoiler

Can you believe that James Gunn made Ego being a villain into a spoiler?

I think that description of Loki in the comics is selling him very short, unless you only go by how he is when he first appears.

 

[GeckoMoria]

When are we going to talk about Fox's villain problem? Do you want to talk about double standards? let's talk how compelling Apocalypse, Ajax or Pierce were....

 

[Boom]

Every time a new MCU film comes up, I convince myself, "Surely THIS villain will deliver." And shockingly, they don't.

I've honestly given up on the MCU villains, until one comes along and surprises me.

 

[Ivan Drago]

When are we going to talk about Fox's villain problem? Do you want to talk about double standards? let's talk how compelling Apocalypse, Ajax or Pierce were....

I thought they were both pretty solid, personally. They had charisma and genuine presence, unlike some of the MCU villains.

Ajax was fun and I loved his "what's my name" schtick between Deadpool.

Pierce in particular had some excellent back in forth dialogue between Wolverine, even though I wish he had more screen time later on in the film.

 

[Boom]

Fox has Ian McKellen's Magneto and Michael Fassbender's Magneto.

 

[DrCosmic]

I think that description of Loki in the comics is selling him very short, unless you only go by how he is when he first appears.

That's probably fair. I haven't read him in any seminal Thor stories.

When are we going to talk about Fox's villain problem? Do you want to talk about double standards? let's talk how compelling Apocalypse, Ajax or Pierce were....

Ajax and Pierce were fine. Cool, in some respects. Incidentally, very difficult to compare unfavorably to their comics counterparts. Apocalypse was a problem, but it seemed like more of a story issue than particularly an issue with Apocalypse himself, his attitude or how he was presented. His makeup maybe, but the characterization was fine, and I would even say more interesting than the usual. I can't say that he couldn't be taken seriously, or that he was not threatening or that he defeated himself. It was just his weird plan and being dramatically overpowered and not using that power.

 

[Ivan Drago]

Fox has Ian McKellen's Magneto and Michael Fassbender's Magneto.

True. Best cbm villain behind Ledger's Joker, even if Magneto has been overused in the films.

Then there's also Brian Cox as Stryker in X2, really underrated villain.

 

[The Joker]

I quite liked Kevin Bacon's Sebastian Shaw, too.

 

[Finarfiniel]

In terms of Marvel villains i am expecting Hela/Cate Blanchett to be amazing. A showstopper.

Every time a new MCU film comes up, I convince myself, "Surely THIS villain will deliver." And shockingly, they don't.

I've honestly given up on the MCU villains, until one comes along and surprises me.

You didn't like Ego? I thought he was a really interesting villain and Kurt Russell is charismatic as hell in the role.

That's probably fair. I haven't read him in any seminal Thor stories.

That would explain you lumping comics Hela in as a 'weak and underdeveloped' villain. Dude no, Hela is awesome. She's long been one of my favourite underrated Marvel villains, and then bizarrely my favourite actress got cast as her in the MCU. Sometimes things work out exactly as you wanted.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The one thing that has always bugged me about Hela is her name. I know it is a nitpick, but as a fan of history and ancient mythologies, it is just an irritant. Her name is Hel. Not Hela, Hel.