Has the 'Villains Problem' been solved?

[JtheDreamer]

It seems like you need to since almost all of the critics agree with me. Lol

Please explain to me how he was "emotionally complex" instead of throwing that phrase around like candy. Complexity requires layers and development, almost to the point of being misunderstood.

Everything about Killemonger is played straight forward. He wants revenge for his father's death and to destabilize the rest of the world previously established by the "colonizers". He doesn't waffle back and forth. There are no moments of "is what I'm doing right?" or regret. He's just angry.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Well I don't mind if a villian overshadows the heroes....with Thanos and his Black Order I hope they stand out as epic characters that will leave us in awe.

Eventually when a comic book accurate Doom is portrayed, I want all characters to tremble and be left in the dust at his portrayal.

I've been waiting such a long time for Thanos and I will be insanely disappointed if he doesn't smack them around for a bit.

 

[Aztec]

Please explain to me how he was "emotionally complex" instead of throwing that phrase around like candy. Complexity requires layers and development, almost to the point of being misunderstood.

Everything about Killemonger is played straight forward. He wants revenge for his father's death and to destabilize the rest of the world previously established by the "colonizers". He doesn't waffle back and forth. There are no moments of "is what I'm doing right?" or regret. He's just angry.

He’s emotionally complex for the audience because he’s the villain and he’s completely right. He has righteous anger. At his core he’s a broken child, an all too common occurrence in American ghettos. He’s been robbed of his history and his family. Now he wants it back, but like most broken things he’s unable to obtain his goals in a “civilized” manner. Complexity.

 

[Bayne]

Now... if they could do something about the cinematography.

Ragnarok and BP are two of the most gorgeous looking superhero movies ever, in my book. I'd say they're on their way, here, as well.

 

[Bayne]

He’s emotionally complex for the audience because he’s the villain and he’s completely right. He has righteous anger. At his core he’s a broken child, an all too common occurrence in American ghettos. He’s been robbed of his history and his family. Now he wants it back, but like most broken things he’s unable to obtain his goals in a “civilized” manner. Complexity.

The thing that really got to me about Killmonger wasn't even anything that MBJ did. All that was great, and well done, but the killer for me was the dream sequence when Killmonger meets his father for the first time in 20 years. That moment when N'Jobu realizes the horrible mistake he made in putting his son on this path seems like the worst possible thing in the world. And then you realize that Erik doesn't even notice that pain at all. He literally can't see past his own anger. And that just makes it even worse.

Killmonger is a painful villain to watch because he is the most real villain in hollywood history. He isn't doing this for fun. He isn't a born psychopath or a lover of chaos or greed. He's just exactly what he was taught to be, by N'Jobu on the one hand and T'Chaka on the other hand. And both of them thought they were doing the right thing and never imagined it could lead to this.

Killmonger is a stand-in for entire generations of children today, and N'Jobu and T'Chaka for the societies we live in. It's some seriously dark and disturbing ****. Like Heath Ledger's Joker disturbing, just less showy.

 

[DACrowe]

Ragnarok and BP are two of the most gorgeous looking superhero movies ever, in my book. I'd say they're on their way, here, as well.

The costumes and set designs in both movies (when it isn't blue screen) are gorgeous. The way it is photographed in a television fashion of "point and shoot" (more Thor than Black Panther in this case) and then given a beige gray filter in post? Not so much. I know Thor has some "splash page" images in its third act, but as a whole I still think it is somewhat bland.

EDIT: To be clear loved Black Panther. But I am still aware this is a Marvel issue. But as Black Panther corrects so many of my previous issues with Marvel, this is turning more into an ongoing quibble. The film is quite masterful in a number of ways.

 

[Thör-El]

It's aimed at Marvel because they do so much else right. So when you're perceived as being so good as so much else, but there's this one weak spot that's an ongoing thing throughout your films, it stands out more to many.

It's a situation of "well you do all of this other stuff well, so why do you keep dropping the ball in this one area."

Yeah, that's my take as well. It's not even that the villains are outright bad. The acting and dialogue is usually good but they're often underdeveloped because of limited screen time and then they come across as a bit one dimensional.

I also think part of the reason people end up disappointed by the villains is the caliber of actors gets peoples hopes up. Andy Serkis, Christopher Eccleston, Mads Mikkelson, Cate Blanchett, Ben Kingsley, Mickey Rourke and Jeff Bridges are all top notch actors that weren't used to their full potential.

 

[TheVileOne]

As I said when Thor: Ragnarok came out, I believe Hela was a couple scenes short of being a really great villain. Her introduction is just so abrupt and unceremonious. And we know next to nothing about her. They just say her name and she's there.

I think we could've used a prologue or scene where we don't see her full on but see her that she now is gaining power while Odin is weakening, and she's able to escape from where she is. She also refers to herself as the Goddess of Death. Why is she the Goddess of Death? We don't really get that expanded on.

 

[Spiderine]

As I said when Thor: Ragnarok came out, I believe Hela was a couple scenes short of being a really great villain. Her introduction is just so abrupt and unceremonious. And we know next to nothing about her. They just say her name and she's there.

I think we could've used a prologue or scene where we don't see her full on but see her that she now is gaining power while Odin is weakening, and she's able to escape from where she is. She also refers to herself as the Goddess of Death. Why is she the Goddess of Death? We don't really get that expanded on.

Yeah......I totally agree. Odin dies and Bam HERES HELA!

And I don't know if the nickname was because she was a conquerer who caused widespread death and destruction and took pleasure in her massacres or she was literally presiding over some death realm. They really should have expanded on what made her so scary and vicious other than a lust for power.

 

[Shikamaru]

Haven't seen Ragnarok, but based on the other last three films? Absolutely.

Hard to tell if it started with Ego or the Vulture. If it didn't start with Ego, it definitely started with the Vulture. And Killmonger is just brilliant. Easily one of the best cbm villains period.

Killmonger is a painful villain to watch because he is the most real villain in hollywood history. He isn't doing this for fun. He isn't a born psychopath or a lover of chaos or greed. He's just exactly what he was taught to be, by N'Jobu on the one hand and T'Chaka on the other hand. And both of them thought they were doing the right thing and never imagined it could lead to this.

Killmonger is a stand-in for entire generations of children today, and N'Jobu and T'Chaka for the societies we live in. It's some seriously dark and disturbing ****. Like Heath Ledger's Joker disturbing, just less showy.

This. This is why he's brilliant.

 

[jmc]

Killmonger is the only villain outside of Loki and maybe Vulture who actually made me stop for a moment and consider his perspective. I understood his anger and why he did what he did. Can't say the same for every other MCU villain. Most are cardboard villains. Yes, he is the best MCU villain by a large margin.

 

[BigThor]

Killmonger was a great villain, understandable motivations, menacing, great acting, and even cool.

Definitely the most hip villain in the MCU and perhaps of all time.

 

[Loki882]

Yeah, that's my take as well. It's not even that the villains are outright bad. The acting and dialogue is usually good but they're often underdeveloped because of limited screen time and then they come across as a bit one dimensional.

I also think part of the reason people end up disappointed by the villains is the caliber of actors gets peoples hopes up. Andy Serkis, Christopher Eccleston, Mads Mikkelson, Cate Blanchett, Ben Kingsley, Mickey Rourke and Jeff Bridges are all top notch actors that weren't used to their full potential.

The second part is a really good point as well. That's part of what disappointed me with say, Cross/Yellowjacket, as well. Corey Stoll is a really good actor, and the movie doesn't really give him a chance to show it off.

 

[Shikamaru]

Killmonger is the only villain outside of Loki and maybe Vulture who actually made me stop for a moment and consider his perspective. I understood his anger and why he did what he did. Can't say the same for every other MCU villain. Most are cardboard villains. Yes, he is the best MCU villain by a large margin.

He also made me stop and question just why I find him so disturbing. I've seen disturbing villains before, but what was it about him that makes him more disturbing than Joker or Magneto?

Then it hit me: he's an everyman. He's not what moviegoers think of when they hear "everyman" - most think of a kid from Brooklyn or Queens - and when you point out there's more of them outside New York they go "Hmm you're right, when's that kid from Kansas getting a good movie? ". But he's still very much an everyman. And by the time he finally made the big screen, he can't help but feel angry and desperate.

Even more disturbing, he's introduced to us as a [BLACKOUT]nerd, soldier, and guy searching for a piece of his culture.[/BLACKOUT] He rocks the blue. He's so familiar, and yet so distant.