The Wrestling Thread is dreaming about vegan candy - - Part 77

[Metallo]

Cena vs Orton felt forced and artificial. They didn't have the chemistry that all the other great rivals had. it just felt like WWE pushing their two golden boys. Orton in particular hasn't lived up to WWE's hopes. Even Cena vs Batista was a better rivalry because it felt natural and Batista's reasons for wanting to crush Cena seemed legitimate. He gave some great promos during their last storyline explaining why and selling their fued.

Punk vs Cena COULD be a great rivalry. The thing is its not over yet so we can't look back and judge in as a whole with any kind of hindsight like we do the others. Its just at the early stages even now. You don't get the kind of payoff (in terms of buzz) that Punk got from his work with Cena from a dud rivalry. And the matches have always been good. Punk makes Cena better. Cena makes him better. Thats a sign of great rivals.

WWE just continues to constantly f*** it up with bad booking (Cenas stupid speeches against Punk as of late, injecting Ryback) or past their prime a**holes butting in to hog the spotlight (Triple H, Nash).

If Cena is todays Hogan Punk could be his Savage. Or in other ways Michaels to Hart or Austin to his Hart. The seeds are there for that. WWE's current braintrust simply has no idea how to take advantage of Punk vs Cena. The two men themselves bring the proper ingredients for a great rivalry.

 

[TheFuture]

Ok according to wiki at least the wwe eras can be broke down to this

1980-1992: the golden era
1994- 1998: the new generation era
1997-2002: attitude era
2002-2008: ruthless aggression era
2008- present: the pg/reality era

So simple question what was the one and only one greatest rivalry of each era.

Wouldn't feel confident to comment on anything before the attitude era given my age.

Attitude Era: Stone Cold -v- The Corporation.

Some will say Austin -v- Rock or Austin -v- McMahon but for me, the Austin/McMahon feud didn't truly kick into gear until The Rock won the title at Deadly Games. It was the combination of The Rock and McMahon -v- Stone Cold that truly put WWE at the steering wheel in the Monday Night Wars, so that's why I vote Stone Cold -v- The Corporation.

Ruthless Aggression Era: Batista -v- Triple H

This is a tough one for me as I lost interest in this era, I'm voting for this feud as it was a classic slow burner, an oh so rare one in this era.

PG Era to Present: CM Punk -v- John Cena

Would have voted for HBK -v- Taker if it wasn't for the result being a given on both occasions. This feud is truly a testament to the class of Cena as previous top men were notorious for refusing to put over fresh talent. I find it amazing that this feud is over a year long yet Cena has still failed to get a clean win over Punk. It's a kick back to the long running feuds of old and the selflessness and genuine love for the business of Cena.

If the screwjob had never happened it could have changed the course of everything. Especially if Bret hadn't gone to WCW. It would have been harder for the Mr McMahon character to emerge which would have affected Austin. Matches that DID happen may not have. Michaels may have never gotten hurt and never left. Owen Hart may not have had to have done the stupid Blue Blazer gimmick again. If you believe the stories Davey Boy wouldn't have gone back to WCW when he did and hurt his back and gotten more addicted to pain killers. Rick Rude never would have left DX and WWF for WCW when he did. Think about how the stuff with Michaels and Rude alone affects DX. How does all this even begin to affect Triple H's career? would a top spot have opened up for Rock as soon?

It basically would have trickled down and affected a lot. various spots opened up for various guys for various reasons after the screwjob. Maybe Attitude wouldn't have launched with the power it did and WCW would have remained dominant for a while longer. The aftermath of the Montreal Screwjob affected everyone.

Yup, in a sick way, the screwjob had to happen.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

If you think about it, without Bret Hart the Austin/McMahon feud does not happen. It was the 96/97feud with Bret (and the double turn at Mania 13) that helped Austin transition to and launch his Texas Rattlesnake persona (one that would carry him to the top babyface spot), and it was the Montreal Screwjob that created the Mr. McMahon persona.

 

[epc11223]

Cena vs Orton felt forced and artificial. They didn't have the chemistry that all the other great rivals had. it just felt like WWE pushing their two golden boys. Orton in particular hasn't lived up to WWE's hopes. Even Cena vs Batista was a better rivalry because it felt natural and Batista's reasons for wanting to crush Cena seemed legitimate. He gave some great promos during their last storyline explaining why and selling their fued.

Punk vs Cena COULD be a great rivalry. The thing is its not over yet so we can't look back and judge in as a whole with any kind of hindsight like we do the others. Its just at the early stages even now. You don't get the kind of payoff (in terms of buzz) that Punk got from his work with Cena from a dud rivalry. And the matches have always been good. Punk makes Cena better. Cena makes him better. Thats a sign of great rivals.

WWE just continues to constantly f*** it up with bad booking (Cenas stupid speeches against Punk as of late, injecting Ryback) or past their prime a**holes butting in to hog the spotlight (Triple H, Nash).

If Cena is todays Hogan Punk could be his Savage. Or in other ways Michaels to Hart or Austin to his Hart. The seeds are there for that. WWE's current braintrust simply has no idea how to take advantage of Punk vs Cena. The two men themselves bring the proper ingredients for a great rivalry.

i can certainly see your point, but i don't think we can discredit the feud because for the company it was one of the bigger feuds of the era. it lasted a long time and it was for the "coveted" championship. it may not have worked as well as other feuds, but i think the longevity of the two and them being the top superstars of that particular time does make the rivalry valid.

 

[epc11223]

i also wouldn't put the rivalry as the top one, but you also listed runner which i think would be an appropriate placement for the rivalry.

 

[Big Green]

i can certainly see your point, but i don't think we can discredit the feud because for the company it was one of the bigger feuds of the era. it lasted a long time and it was for the "coveted" championship. it may not have worked as well as other feuds, but i think the longevity of the two and them being the top superstars of that particular time does make the rivalry valid.

It also made the title less "coveted" cause it changed hands like 4 times during that feud. I agree it was just so forced.

 

[Metallo]

Ruthless Aggression Era: Batista -v- Triple H

This is a tough one for me as I lost interest in this era, I'm voting for this feud as it was a classic slow burner, an oh so rare one in this era.

PG Era to Present: CM Punk -v- John Cena

Would have voted for HBK -v- Taker if it wasn't for the result being a given on both occasions. This feud is truly a testament to the class of Cena as previous top men were notorious for refusing to put over fresh talent. I find it amazing that this feud is over a year long yet Cena has still failed to get a clean win over Punk. It's a kick back to the long running feuds of old and the selflessness and genuine love for the business of Cena.

Nice to see someone give Cena credit for something instead of constantly dumping on the guy because of WWE's stupidity. Some people never give him a break. Cenas probably the most giving top guy since Bret Hart. Much like Hart handpicked Austin to work with and elevate Cena did the same for Punk. He didn't HAVE to do that but Cena recognizes a good money feud and talent that can make him better. Hogan was the same way (so is Triple H) except unlike Hogan Cenas was unselfish just like you said. Hogan could smell a great rivalry to make him look better but didn't return the favor very often. Hogan never did for Savage what Cenas done for Punk. Even Austin rarely ever did what Cena has done for Punk.

You've also made me add Triple H vs Batista as a runner up. Unlike Cena's rise it was a feud done right which IS indeed rare in this age. Triple H made Batista a star in some pretty good matches and story. If Triple H could do that with Batista IMAGINE what he could have done with guys like Jericho or others if he'd been more giving. I hope he tries with Punk before he retires. If only The Game used his powers for good instead of beign a selfish a**hole evil.

Yup, in a sick way, the screwjob had to happen.

As sad as some of the things were that it led to I agree. If the Screwjob hadn't happened its hard for me to iagien the WWF being quite as sucessful as soon as it was.

Michaels second run with WWE was unbelievably good when you think about it. His feuds with Triple H, Jericho, and Undertaker were brilliant. I didn't enjoy the feud itself, but he and Cena had good matches, especially the hour long match on RAW. His brief heel turn against Hogan was entertaining; The best part was when he trolled Canada by making them think Bret was going to show up. Oh and who could forget the Kurt Angle feud, Just so much great stuff from HBK from 2002-2010.

Agreed. Michaels may not have been the athlete he was in his first run but he was an even better worker in the second run which is shocking since he was already a great worker when he left in 1998. One thing that impressed me was that HBK's timing in the ring got even better than it was before.

i can certainly see your point, but i don't think we can discredit the feud because for the company it was one of the bigger feuds of the era. it lasted a long time and it was for the "coveted" championship. it may not have worked as well as other feuds, but i think the longevity of the two and them being the top superstars of that particular time does make the rivalry valid.

You mean Cena vs Orton? just because it lasted for a while doesn't mean it deserves the kind of status WWE has tried to tag it with as a great rivalry. Lots of fueds lasted a while but never took off. Cena vs Orton never really took off. There were so many rivalries that were better around that period. Undertaker vs Batista was another one that trounced it. You said it yourself:

they (Cena and orton) fought countless times to the point where it got nauseating boring. i got the impression that they were trying to make it a new version of shawn vs bret, but never really got the emotional response from the fans.

I agree with you. Cena vs Orton reminds me of Orton vs HHH. Another feud WWE tried to propogandize as amazing but it wasn't. Theres a difference between a top/main event rivalry and a truly great one. I wouldn't even give Cena vs Orton a runner up spot because so many others were better.

 

[Lobo]

Cena vs Orton should have been great, but like you said they lacked chemistry. I think at best they had two good matches together. I want Randy to turn heel so bad, have him RKO Sheamus or something

edit

As for the Trips vs Randy rivalry my avatar seems rather appropriate.

 

[TheFuture]

You've also made me add Triple H vs Batista as a runner up. Unlike Cena's rise it was a feud done right which IS indeed rare in this age. Triple H made Batista a star in some pretty good matches and story. If Triple H could do that with Batista IMAGINE what he could have done with guys like Jericho or others if he'd been more giving. I hope he tries with Punk before he retires. If only The Game used his powers for good instead of beign a selfish a**hole evil.

I agree with you. Cena vs Orton reminds me of Orton vs HHH. Another feud WWE tried to propogandize as amazing but it wasn't. Theres a difference between a top/main event rivalry and a truly great one. I wouldn't even give Cena vs Orton a runner up spot because so many others were better.

edit

As for the Trips vs Randy rivalry my avatar seems rather appropriate.

The difference between the Orton/HHH feud and the Batista/HHH feud was that the latter was given a chance. Orton could have worked as a face had they done the groundwork but they didn't.

By the time Batista turned on HHH he had every reason to and you were just waiting for that moment where he finally kicked the **** out of HHH.

 

[epc11223]

for me a rivalry to work it's like polar opposites fighting one another and how much of the intense hatred they have for each other. also the top superstars of the times fighting one another. i dont know, while it seemed forced, the rivalry for me somewhat worked. shawn vs bret for me is the top rivalry because they both conveyed hatred towards one another, made it personal, it lasted a long time, and they were the top superstars for that time. while batista was popular at the time, he really seemed to be behind orton and cena. like a great nba matchup for the finals would be lakers vs heat,: kobe vs lebron because they are both considered heirs to michael jordans throne. rock vs austin were the tops, hogan vs macho man, michaels vs undertaker, etc. for the time, to me, it just seemed like orton vs cena was the new coke to hart vs michaels, and punk vs cena is like coke zero. new coke didn't last at all, and coke zero is somewhat more acceptable as an alternate to coke/diet coke.

 

[Project862006]

Cena vs Orton felt forced and artificial. They didn't have the chemistry that all the other great rivals had. it just felt like WWE pushing their two golden boys. Orton in particular hasn't lived up to WWE's hopes. Even Cena vs Batista was a better rivalry because it felt natural and Batista's reasons for wanting to crush Cena seemed legitimate. He gave some great promos during their last storyline explaining why and selling their fued.

Punk vs Cena COULD be a great rivalry. The thing is its not over yet so we can't look back and judge in as a whole with any kind of hindsight like we do the others. Its just at the early stages even now. You don't get the kind of payoff (in terms of buzz) that Punk got from his work with Cena from a dud rivalry. And the matches have always been good. Punk makes Cena better. Cena makes him better. Thats a sign of great rivals.

WWE just continues to constantly f*** it up with bad booking (Cenas stupid speeches against Punk as of late, injecting Ryback) or past their prime a**holes butting in to hog the spotlight (Triple H, Nash).

If Cena is todays Hogan Punk could be his Savage. Or in other ways Michaels to Hart or Austin to his Hart. The seeds are there for that. WWE's current braintrust simply has no idea how to take advantage of Punk vs Cena. The two men themselves bring the proper ingredients for a great rivalry.

imo had that feud happened in 2004 it would of been special

during the height of their popularity and support

orton was the arrogant evolution heel and cena was the brash funny rapper they were loved and very fresh and new at the time

remember this



by the time they finally met the luster was off

 

[Karelia]

Anyone heard about this. Just saw it on amazon. Wondering what it's going to have on it.

Spoiler

 

[Keyser Soze]

I care so little about TNA that I never bothered to check the Bound For Glory results, and I only just now discovered that Jeff Hardy is the current TNA World Champion. After the company-shaming debacle live on PPV that occurred last time he held the belt, they actually gave him it back at the expense of one of their most promising talents.

LOLTNA.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I care so little about TNA that I never bothered to check the Bound For Glory results, and I only just now discovered that Jeff Hardy is the current TNA World Champion. After the company-shaming debacle live on PPV that occurred last time he held the belt, they actually gave him it back at the expense of one of their most promising talents.

LOLTNA.

He's only TNA Champion so that they do everything in their power to keep him.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think Cena and Orton had an inspired match at Summerslam 2007 when I think Orton should've won, but w'ever.

I think Orton's best period was 2009 after he won the Rumble and WWE ****ed all that up too.

 

[Slushy]

After 24 years since first watching Wrestlemania IV, I made a 5 hour drive to Los Angeles (a city I officially hate now) yesterday to meet The Ultimate Warrior and Demolition for the first time ever. Ax and Smash are my favorite tag team of all-time and they were great to meet. They even stood up to take the picture with me after I started getting emotional.

The Ultimate Warrior was pricey, but I have new found respect for the guy. Yeah, he's an assh*le in general, but when it comes to wrestling fans, the guy is just awesome to meet. He talked to me for at least 5 to 10 minutes giving me an inspirational speech then gave me a hug before I left the booth. While he deserved all the spite on the Ultimate Destruction DVD, I do believe the bad rep he's gotten has gone overboard because of his convinctions and his refusal to compromise. A misconception if you will.

So simple question what was the one and only one greatest rivalry of each era.

WWF - Hogan Vs. Savage (The Macho Man was consumed with madness and would go to great lengths to try get one up on The Hulkster).

WWF: NG - Austin Vs. Hart (They gave us great matches and it was all about respect.)

WWF: Attitude - Austin Vs. Maivia (The greatest rivalry in WWF history IMO because it was the epitome of two guys wanting to the top star of Vince's company with millions upon millions supporting the two.)

WWE: Cena Vs. Orton (although Batista was the bigger star and Edge had more memorable matches, I felt Orton was Cena's greatest rival: kicked his dad in the head, beat him at WM, beat him in HIAC).

WWE: PG - Cena Vs. Punk (A lot like Austin and Hart in terms of great matches and respect, but its like if Hogan was feuding with Austin in terms of star power).

The screwjob more than anything was about Vince taking Shawns side over Brets. The company wasn't big enough for the two of them anymore and it was Shawn who Vince got behind. He's always seemed to have an affection for Michaels and caved to him on certain things. The Cliq had a lot of influence they shouldn't have.

Now since Bret was leaving the right thing to do would be for the leaving champ (Hart) to give the new top guy (Michaels) the rub by losing but Vince let a situation happen where Shawn walked all over Bret. He should have just made Shawn lose to Bret in the months before he left to sooth Brets ego. Thats what it was all about between the two of them. Trust and ego. When Shawn says he's never going to lose to Bret I can understand why Bret felt he was being asked to do something unfairly when Michaels wasn't. Vince let it spin out of control that way with Shawn and HHH in his ear.

Vince's SECOND excuse of being afraid Bret would take the WWF title to WCW is hogwash. I just don't believe Bret would have done that. bret respects the business in an almost markish sort of way. If Vince EVER trusted Bret he should have trusted him then to do the right thing. This wasn't a Madusa situation. Bret had far more stroke going into WCW than Madusa did when Bischoff forced her to dump the womens title in a garbage can. I just can't believe Bischoff could have MADE Bret Hart do that especially if the screwjob hadn't happened.

If Vince hadn't backed Shawns play the entire time leading up to Survivor Series and instead made him stop being a self indulgent child and simply shown bret the respect he wanted I think Bret WOULD have done the right thing. Instead Vince let HBK do what he wanted all the while preteding there was nothing he could do and acting like he had no idea what was going on. Hard to believe with Vince McMahon. At the last minute he put his own back against the wall by letting Shawn get away with a lot more than he should have and not trusting Bret Hart the way he should have. The lead up wasn't as beyond his control as he claims.

All the excuses look even more suspect when Vince had pulled ANOTHER screwjob finish on Wendi Richter twelve years earlier. Montreal wasn't Vince's first time at this kind of dance when he wanted a certain kind of outcome.

I agree. Yeah, it's Vince's company, but forcing Bret to lose to a guy he despised (after already putting him over in their last match at their biggest show) in front of his peeps just to make him look like damaged goods when he went to WCW was a slap in a face. I would've had Bret drop the title to Austin, Foley, or Undertaker.

If I had to book Montreal, I would've just had Triple H hit Bret with the belt to have Shawn win the match dirty. That would've been the perfect compromise to both parties.

I care so little about TNA that I never bothered to check the Bound For Glory results, and I only just now discovered that Jeff Hardy is the current TNA World Champion. After the company-shaming debacle live on PPV that occurred last time he held the belt, they actually gave him it back at the expense of one of their most promising talents.

LOLTNA

I didn't like it either, but after waiting 40 minutes in line to meet Jeff Hardy at this year's BFG TNA Fan Interaction, I had to come to terms that he is a draw regardless of his personal problems.

 

[Superark]

great opening match between joe and magnus, though I have to question not giving magnus the win

 

[OnTheAir]

Taz just called him "Abyss." #oops

 

[Wheels]

Taz just called him "Abyss." #oops

Hahaha still not as bad as Tenay calling the TNA television championship the WWE television championship at the last PPV. Man, Taz and Tenay suck on commentary. When Bully Ray retires I say give hin at shot as the color man and let JB do play by play.

 

[OnTheAir]

Ugh...I want the tag titles back on Daniels and Kaz. The REAL World Tag Team Champions...of the world!

 

[OnTheAir]

Nice tease of the "Beer! Munnay!" spot by Storm and Roode.

 

[OnTheAir]

You knew AJ was gonna eat the pin in this match. I hope they put him back in the X-division title picture until Bound For Glory.

 

[NDX]

Hahaha still not as bad as Tenay calling the TNA television championship the WWE television championship at the last PPV. Man, Taz and Tenay suck on commentary. When Bully Ray retires I say give hin at shot as the color man and let JB do play by play.

I've actually grown to like the JB/Kenely team that opens the show.

 

[OnTheAir]

I've got to give it to Hardy...I liked the spot of him riding the ladder into the splash.

 

[OnTheAir]

A-Double using the controls to raise the belts was a clever spot. Well done.