The Wrestling Thread Saw the End of An Era - Part 55

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Watching the Hall of Fame ceremony that was broadcast last week. I just realized that's Rhyno sitting next to Edge's mother.



As much as most would try to deny it, Hogan does deserve the honor. nWo were just as much of a big deal as the Four Horsemen, some would say even bigger.

Hart Foundation definitely deserves it.

Good question about DX, really hard to say. I would say induct all of them. Even Chyna if she'd be willing.

Going by WWE's own criteria all the members of DX deserve it. Hell Chyna might deserve it MORE than some of the guys but thats a whole can of worms I'm not sure anyone would want to touch (Insert joke here [and another joke for that] ).

It be tough to make the case that X-pac Road Dogg and Billy Gunn deserve it but Chyna doesn't if they did decide to snub her in this hypothetical future induction.

But yeah all the Von Erichs got in even if they didn't all deserve it so the same could happen with DX. But maybe The Von Erichs contributions as a family through World Class is what got them in. The WWE HOF would be so much easier to figure out if it was actually voted on instead of one guys call.

Going by my own standard...not sure where DX (besides HHH and HBK) stands. But then I think there are already guys that don't belong in the HOF. The Outlaws were a hell of a team though. Not THE greatest but damn good. Maybe they deserve it.
 
Red Rooster gonna whip those developmental boys in to shape. :)
 
If DX gets inducted than it should be the original 3 of HBK, HHH and Chyna. And the NWO should get into the HOF oas a group but Hogan, Nash and Hall only.
 
So the WWE will continue with FCW and also have something new in Connecticut.
 
I don't know about NWO. I think Hall and Nash deserve individual inductions.
 
If I'm honest, I think it hurts Nell that Bryan is so much more over and has achieved so much more than Miz has, in Bryan's short time in the WWE.

You'd be wrong.

But whatever, go ahead and continue to twist my words. Through louiebling's "QFT", it's obvious that's what Metallo is still doing, even though my argument blatantly acknowledges the in ring storytelling of the whole thing.

But I mean, it's obvious I'm not a fan... I mean, I only watch every week, spend money on merchandise, spend money on the monthly PPV's, and spend money going to live events when they are in my area.

I'm totally not a fan of wrestling...
 
So the WWE will continue with FCW and also have something new in Connecticut.

I think so. I also think FCW should air a new episode tonight, which should be online tomorrow. They might not have wanted to air a new episode on the night of WrestleMania.
 
The Great Ruse: The comedic genius who rocked wrestling

By Wayne Drash, CNN
updated 10:54 AM EDT, Sat April 7, 2012

120404081540-kaufman-wrestling-01-custom-1.jpg

Comedian Andy Kaufman taunts Jerry "The King" Lawler in the Memphis ring in 1982

Memphis, Tennessee (CNN) -- Andy Kaufman danced around the wrestling ring in a ridiculous outfit and jumped up and down like an ape. The star of the hit TV show "Taxi" pointed to his head and mocked the Memphis crowd.

"I'm from Hollywood. I have brains!" he declared.

Fans pelted him with Dixie cups.

On this April night 30 years ago, the New York native worked fans inside the Mid-South Coliseum into a chaotic frenzy. In a river town notorious for its rough-and-tumble roots, the coliseum was crammed with the rowdiest characters Memphis had to offer.

The place reeked of Jack Daniels, Marlboro and Skoal. So dangerous was the crowd that one wrestler carried a shank at all times after being stabbed by a fan.

Long before comedian Sacha Baron Cohen's Borat hit the screen, there was Kaufman, the comedic genius with wiry hair and bulging eyes who pushed the envelope of performance art on a real-time stage. And the whole wrestling episode -- inside the ring and out -- was performance art at its peak. For Kaufman, the fact that so few people caught on made it all the better.

"The reason he's still remembered is he took that idea of being a despicable bad guy and he took it to a whole new level," says Bob Thompson, a professor of pop culture at Syracuse University.

"His badness came not from wanting to take over the world; his badness came from being just so irritating. This was a character, probably more than any I can think of in American popular culture history, that within seconds of hearing him open his mouth, you really wanted to hit him in the face."

Kaufman's wrestling antics would later be immortalized in his infamous expletive-laced tirade on "Late Night with David Letterman," in the R.E.M. song "Man on the Moon" and in the Jim Carrey movie by the same name.

But there in the ring, Kaufman proved to be what everyone in Memphis already knew: The nation's biggest wuss. He'd sent videos showing residents how to use soap, he'd proclaimed Memphis to be the nation's redneck capital, he'd wrestled women in a city where they were only to be respected.

The way the pencil-necked geek pranced around the ring with his chest swelled, the way he scratched his armpits like a monkey -- well, by God, the arrogant som'***** needed a whooping.

He'd accepted a challenge from Jerry "The King" Lawler, the city's heroic champion. But when the bell chimed, Kaufman avoided Lawler at all cost, running around the ring as fast as he could as soon the barrel-chested king approached. A frustrated Lawler, playing his part to the hilt, climbed from the ring and grabbed the PA microphone.

"Did you come down here to wrestle or act like an ass?" Lawler said to wild cheers.

120404090818-kaufman-wrestling-02-custom-1.jpg

With Kaufman's head between his legs, Lawler delivers a vicious piledriver.


It was the start of one of the greatest ruses of all time, when two men captivated an entire city and puzzled the nation, when Kaufman became the most hated person to ever walk the streets of Memphis.

Their act would get wilder and crazier in the ensuing months, with more matches and more taunts.

As a 10-year-old, I watched the drama unfold from the sixth row. It was genuinely exquisite to witness the night when the King gave the twerp what he deserved.

To be honest, the name Andy Kaufman still makes me nauseated, the way he dumped on us. I'm also well aware this makes me among the ultimate dupes, a kid who fell for the whole thing: Kaufman's broken vertebrae, his neck brace, his vile evilness.

And it took years for me to recognize Kaufman for what he was: theatrical genius.

The wrestling community still refuses to recognize it. Thirty years after arguably the most entertaining man ever entered the ring, Kaufman remains shut out. The WWE Hall of Fame won't allow him in.

"His absence from the Hall of Fame is conspicuous," Thompson says. "He is one of the really important members of the pantheon of that form.

"All those big bad guys in wrestling are ones that are so outside of our own experience. How often do we really come up against people like that? Whereas Andy Kaufman was a bad guy of the type we might encounter in the office, in the classroom and in our daily lives. He was a kind of annoying that we could really identify with.

That's what makes Kaufman so memorable."


The Yankee came to town, beat up women


It made no sense.

Kaufman was at the top of his career.


His characters could amuse nightclub and television audiences with their childlike simplicity (as when he played the "Mighty Mouse" theme on a portable phonograph, mouthing along with the chorus), offend with their boorishness (the chauvinistic Tony Clifton), or simply befuddle. He could spend an entire show reading from "The Great Gatsby," continuing well past the point when most of the audience walked out.

The nation loved him for his portrayal on "Taxi" of Latka Gravas, the wildly entertaining foreigner who struggled with English and multiple personality disorder.

Yet to the dismay of the entertainment world, Kaufman started wrestling women in night clubs around the country and then in Memphis. And it grew from there. Did it ever.

"You've got this institution of professional wrestling, which is already real and not real, and you bring in this performer who has been making a career and a reputation of walking that fine line between what's real and what's not real and confusing us -- and when you put those together, it's like ambiguous reality cubed," says Thompson, who once dedicated three classes of a pop culture course to Kaufman.

By spring 1982, Kaufman anointed himself as the Inter-Gender Wrestling Champion of the World. Kaufman soon accepted Lawler's offer to a match in the Mid-South Coliseum -- to battle the King on his own turf.

And in so doing, Kaufman challenged all of "May'm-fuss," as he called my beloved town.

"I've wrestled women that are a lot bigger and stronger than you," Kaufman said in a videotaped message to Lawler. "You're from May'm-fuss, Tennessee. All's we do is plow the fields and farm the farm."

His eyes rolled in the back of his head and his teeth protruded in bucktooth fashion: "Is that how you talk in May'm-fuss, Tennessee, Mr. Lawler? Duhhh."

To the rest of the nation, this might've seemed funny. Memphians, we clenched our fists. Them's fighting words!

You have to understand something: Memphis wrestling was as big as religion in the heart of the Bible Belt. Sunday may have been for forgiving, but Saturday was for sinning.

And every Saturday morning at 11 a.m., two out of every three TV sets in the city were tuned in to "Championship Wrestling." Wrestlers would come on, bulge their eyes, smash each other with chairs, flex their pectorals for the cameras -- all to push toward the main event on Monday night.

The show was co-hosted by Lance Russell, the elder statesman who maintained calm while wrestlers flared their nostrils, and Dave Brown, whose butter-smooth delivery matched his suave good looks. (He was the most popular weatherman in town, too.)

Kaufman "wasn't just misunderstood by Memphians; he wasn't understood at all," Brown says.

"For Andy to come in and start insulting Jerry and then carrying that over to insulting the entire area, I mean, he was talking about the people of Memphis and this area and putting them down and how they were backwoods.

In one interview, he was explaining soap and how they should use it regularly to clean their bodies. I mean, really insulting stuff. And people were just furious."

Did Kaufman infuriate Brown, like the rest of us in the city?

"I wasn't offended by it at all," he chuckles. "I think Andy was a genius."

Russell, now 86, tries to contain his laughter over the phone. No one outside Memphis, he says, could truly understand how despised Kaufman was. Memphians couldn't care less what the rest of the world thought of the performer.

It started when Kaufman came to the Southern city and wrestled women.

"He took great pleasure in backhanding women and doing anything he could to embarrass them," Russell says. "Even though he was the top comedy figure on television with his 'Taxi' role, they didn't think it was anything to laugh about."

The feud grew to epic proportions when Lawler and Kaufman appeared on "Late Night with David Letterman" in the summer of 1982. It was Letterman's first year of the show, back when it was on NBC after Johnny Carson's "Tonight Show." He was already making waves with all sorts of crazy stuff.

Lawler walked out to a cacophony of boos. Kaufman wore his infamous neck brace from that first Memphis match with Lawler. "I could've sued you for everything you're worth," screamed Kaufman. "Only I didn't. Because I'm not that kind of guy."

"What kind of guy are you?" Lawler said in Shakespearean fashion.

Lawler stood and slapped Kaufman, who then launched his tirade.

It remains among the greatest Letterman moments of all time. The video went viral long before the Internet gave rise to the term, with people across the country clamoring for bootlegged VHS and Beta tapes of the incident. "When you're talking about the great Top 20 things that happened on Letterman in his golden age," Syracuse's Thomson says, the Kaufman-Lawler exchange definitely makes the list.

"One of the reasons it's stood the test of time is it seemed like one of those moments where something has gone terribly wrong on a television show, where you're watching something that wasn't supposed to happen. I mean, even by the standards of the 'Jersey Shore,' Andy Kaufman's behavior was just really bad, just so uncivilized."

And what began as a small-town feud erupted. The Kaufman-Lawler gig would help transform the wrestling industry into today's multimillion-dollar juggernaut, paving the way for Hollywood and wrestling to intertwine. Soon, singer Cyndi Lauper and actor Laurence Tureaud -- best known as "Mr. T" on the hit show "The A-Team" -- were in the ring.

Yet two years after the ruse began, the befuddling entertainer died suddenly of a rare cancer at the age of 35 at Cedars Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles.

A cult following ensued. Sightings of Kaufman as Tony Clifton were reported. People couldn't help but wonder: Was Kaufman pulling off his greatest stunt?

"I still try to hold onto a little bit of hope that he didn't really die," Thompson admits. "But I have to say, if he is going to come back and still have an audience, he'd better do it pretty soon."

120404101456-kaufman-wrestling-03-custom-1.jpg

Kaufman left the arena on a stretcher and an ambulance rushed him to the hospital.
The Commercial Appeal


The Piledriver Heard Round the World

The Mid-South Coliseum seethed. I thrust my fist into the air. I wanted blood, just like the 11,200 others in the arena. Lawler had just delivered his delightful line: "Did you come down here to wrestle or act like an ass?"
The King hopped back into the ring. You could feel Kaufman's knees quivering.

A budding artist, Lawler had gotten his start in wrestling a decade earlier by sketching wrestling cartoons and sending them to Lance Russell. The announcer loved the renditions and invited him to the studio. Lawler was a natural showman and had the build of a wrestler. He started training with the city's best.

Now, I was about to witness the greatest masterpiece in wrestling history.

Lawler hoisted the Hollywood star over his shoulder and above his head, and slammed him to the mat. "Kaufman is down and may be out," Russell told his TV audience.

"Nahh, his leg is twitching."

Lawler motioned to the crowd, signaling his next move.

It was as if he asked us: Should I hurt him even more? The roof nearly blew off the coliseum with a collective, "Hell, yeah."

Lawler was about to deliver the Piledriver Heard Round the World. He put Kaufman's head between his legs and leaped into the air. The upside-down Kaufman kicked his legs in midair, like a scaredy cat, for extra dramatic effect.

Bam!


Kaufman lay motionless. His legs twitched some more.

Feeling the crowd's call for vengeance, Lawler moved in for the kill. He grabbed Kaufman by the head and dragged him to center stage.

"He's gonna give it to him again," Russell said.

Bam!


Kaufman didn't move for about 15 minutes. He looked dead. Lawler held his hands in the air in celebration. The coliseum filled with a mix of jubilation, exuberance and anxiety.

Amid the commotion, unbeknownst to the crowd, a conversation unfolded inside the ring, according to insiders.

Lawler felt the shenanigans had gone on long enough, that it was time to head to the locker room. "I want an ambulance," the sprawled-out Kaufman told the referee.

The ref ran over to Lawler, tapped him on the shoulder and told him of Kaufman's request. "An ambulance is gonna cost us $250," Lawler said. "Tell him to get up and go to the back."

To this, Kaufman replied: "Tell him I'll pay for it."
It's the best 250 bucks ever spent in entertainment. A stretcher carted Kaufman off, and an ambulance rushed him to the hospital.

At school the next day, one kid recommended a class prayer for Kaufman. He was immediately booed. The prayer request was rescinded. A piledriving epidemic broke out in gym class in the ensuing days, to the point where the wrestling move was banned from school.

The ruse had everyone fooled. Even reporters got taken for a ride.

From his bed at St. Francis Hospital, Kaufman told TV crews: "I always thought wrestling wasn't real, but apparently, I guess, at least this one was." He spoke with a weird chin-strap contraption around his head.

Kaufman told The Washington Post he wished he'd never stepped into the ring. "I thought I was a champion wrestler, an athlete, a macho guy," he said.

Lawler told the paper, "I felt I had to hurt him for the credibility of wrestling and for my own credibility.

"I could've hit him in the face and broken his nose; I could've ripped out his eye; I could've ripped off his arm.

But then, they'd have helped him out of the ring and he'd be walking around all bloody, and he'd have gotten a lot of sympathy," Lawler said. "But I knew if his neck was hurt ... they'd have to come into the ring and cart him off on a stretcher."

Lawler would go on to become one of the nation's top wrestlers. (He declined comment for this story.)

Announcer Lance Russell loved it all. "I am here to tell you," he says, "some way, somehow, it just all came together. It was just so much fun. It was so crazy."

His co-host, Dave Brown, lets me in on a secret.

Sometimes, if Kaufman and Lawler had a huge Monday-night match that Brown missed because he had to deliver the weather forecast at the local TV station, he would discover a post-match ritual.

"They'd be at the coliseum, supposedly trying to kill each other, and then I'd get off the 10 o'clock newscast and walk into the newsroom, and Jerry and Andy would be sitting in an edit booth discussing what had happened and where to go from there.

"I found that fascinating -- that they worked so closely together to make sure it worked," he says. "If Lawler had not been totally on board with it and if Andy had not been totally on board with it, it would never have worked at all."

And work it did.

Genius.

CNN's Todd Leopold contributed to this story.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/07/us/kaufman-lawler-wrestling-match/index.html
 
I don't know about NWO. I think Hall and Nash deserve individual inductions.

In Hall's case, the WWE should just wait until ... you know. A posthumous induction would be a lot more sedate and tasteful than dragging that shabbling mound of humanity back into the public eye. Better for WWE fans to remember him at his best.
 
In Hall's case, the WWE should just wait until ... you know. A posthumous induction would be a lot more sedate and tasteful than dragging that shabbling mound of humanity back into the public eye. Better for WWE fans to remember him at his best.

Dang. I know the man isn't in the best of conditions, that's messed up. You don't there's any chance of him getting better?
 
The Great Ruse: The comedic genius who rocked wrestling

By Wayne Drash, CNN
updated 10:54 AM EDT, Sat April 7, 2012

120404081540-kaufman-wrestling-01-custom-1.jpg

Comedian Andy Kaufman taunts Jerry "The King" Lawler in the Memphis ring in 1982

Memphis, Tennessee (CNN) -- Andy Kaufman danced around the wrestling ring in a ridiculous outfit and jumped up and down like an ape. The star of the hit TV show "Taxi" pointed to his head and mocked the Memphis crowd.

"I'm from Hollywood. I have brains!" he declared.

Fans pelted him with Dixie cups.

On this April night 30 years ago, the New York native worked fans inside the Mid-South Coliseum into a chaotic frenzy. In a river town notorious for its rough-and-tumble roots, the coliseum was crammed with the rowdiest characters Memphis had to offer.

The place reeked of Jack Daniels, Marlboro and Skoal. So dangerous was the crowd that one wrestler carried a shank at all times after being stabbed by a fan.

Long before comedian Sacha Baron Cohen's Borat hit the screen, there was Kaufman, the comedic genius with wiry hair and bulging eyes who pushed the envelope of performance art on a real-time stage. And the whole wrestling episode -- inside the ring and out -- was performance art at its peak. For Kaufman, the fact that so few people caught on made it all the better.

"The reason he's still remembered is he took that idea of being a despicable bad guy and he took it to a whole new level," says Bob Thompson, a professor of pop culture at Syracuse University.

"His badness came not from wanting to take over the world; his badness came from being just so irritating. This was a character, probably more than any I can think of in American popular culture history, that within seconds of hearing him open his mouth, you really wanted to hit him in the face."

Kaufman's wrestling antics would later be immortalized in his infamous expletive-laced tirade on "Late Night with David Letterman," in the R.E.M. song "Man on the Moon" and in the Jim Carrey movie by the same name.

But there in the ring, Kaufman proved to be what everyone in Memphis already knew: The nation's biggest wuss. He'd sent videos showing residents how to use soap, he'd proclaimed Memphis to be the nation's redneck capital, he'd wrestled women in a city where they were only to be respected.

The way the pencil-necked geek pranced around the ring with his chest swelled, the way he scratched his armpits like a monkey -- well, by God, the arrogant som'***** needed a whooping.

He'd accepted a challenge from Jerry "The King" Lawler, the city's heroic champion. But when the bell chimed, Kaufman avoided Lawler at all cost, running around the ring as fast as he could as soon the barrel-chested king approached. A frustrated Lawler, playing his part to the hilt, climbed from the ring and grabbed the PA microphone.

"Did you come down here to wrestle or act like an ass?" Lawler said to wild cheers.

120404090818-kaufman-wrestling-02-custom-1.jpg

With Kaufman's head between his legs, Lawler delivers a vicious piledriver.


It was the start of one of the greatest ruses of all time, when two men captivated an entire city and puzzled the nation, when Kaufman became the most hated person to ever walk the streets of Memphis.

Their act would get wilder and crazier in the ensuing months, with more matches and more taunts.

As a 10-year-old, I watched the drama unfold from the sixth row. It was genuinely exquisite to witness the night when the King gave the twerp what he deserved.

To be honest, the name Andy Kaufman still makes me nauseated, the way he dumped on us. I'm also well aware this makes me among the ultimate dupes, a kid who fell for the whole thing: Kaufman's broken vertebrae, his neck brace, his vile evilness.

And it took years for me to recognize Kaufman for what he was: theatrical genius.

The wrestling community still refuses to recognize it. Thirty years after arguably the most entertaining man ever entered the ring, Kaufman remains shut out. The WWE Hall of Fame won't allow him in.

"His absence from the Hall of Fame is conspicuous," Thompson says. "He is one of the really important members of the pantheon of that form.

"All those big bad guys in wrestling are ones that are so outside of our own experience. How often do we really come up against people like that? Whereas Andy Kaufman was a bad guy of the type we might encounter in the office, in the classroom and in our daily lives. He was a kind of annoying that we could really identify with.

That's what makes Kaufman so memorable."


The Yankee came to town, beat up women

It made no sense.

Kaufman was at the top of his career.


His characters could amuse nightclub and television audiences with their childlike simplicity (as when he played the "Mighty Mouse" theme on a portable phonograph, mouthing along with the chorus), offend with their boorishness (the chauvinistic Tony Clifton), or simply befuddle. He could spend an entire show reading from "The Great Gatsby," continuing well past the point when most of the audience walked out.

The nation loved him for his portrayal on "Taxi" of Latka Gravas, the wildly entertaining foreigner who struggled with English and multiple personality disorder.

Yet to the dismay of the entertainment world, Kaufman started wrestling women in night clubs around the country and then in Memphis. And it grew from there. Did it ever.

"You've got this institution of professional wrestling, which is already real and not real, and you bring in this performer who has been making a career and a reputation of walking that fine line between what's real and what's not real and confusing us -- and when you put those together, it's like ambiguous reality cubed," says Thompson, who once dedicated three classes of a pop culture course to Kaufman.

By spring 1982, Kaufman anointed himself as the Inter-Gender Wrestling Champion of the World. Kaufman soon accepted Lawler's offer to a match in the Mid-South Coliseum -- to battle the King on his own turf.

And in so doing, Kaufman challenged all of "May'm-fuss," as he called my beloved town.

"I've wrestled women that are a lot bigger and stronger than you," Kaufman said in a videotaped message to Lawler. "You're from May'm-fuss, Tennessee. All's we do is plow the fields and farm the farm."

His eyes rolled in the back of his head and his teeth protruded in bucktooth fashion: "Is that how you talk in May'm-fuss, Tennessee, Mr. Lawler? Duhhh."

To the rest of the nation, this might've seemed funny. Memphians, we clenched our fists. Them's fighting words!

You have to understand something: Memphis wrestling was as big as religion in the heart of the Bible Belt. Sunday may have been for forgiving, but Saturday was for sinning.

And every Saturday morning at 11 a.m., two out of every three TV sets in the city were tuned in to "Championship Wrestling." Wrestlers would come on, bulge their eyes, smash each other with chairs, flex their pectorals for the cameras -- all to push toward the main event on Monday night.

The show was co-hosted by Lance Russell, the elder statesman who maintained calm while wrestlers flared their nostrils, and Dave Brown, whose butter-smooth delivery matched his suave good looks. (He was the most popular weatherman in town, too.)

Kaufman "wasn't just misunderstood by Memphians; he wasn't understood at all," Brown says.

"For Andy to come in and start insulting Jerry and then carrying that over to insulting the entire area, I mean, he was talking about the people of Memphis and this area and putting them down and how they were backwoods.

In one interview, he was explaining soap and how they should use it regularly to clean their bodies. I mean, really insulting stuff. And people were just furious."

Did Kaufman infuriate Brown, like the rest of us in the city?

"I wasn't offended by it at all," he chuckles. "I think Andy was a genius."

Russell, now 86, tries to contain his laughter over the phone. No one outside Memphis, he says, could truly understand how despised Kaufman was. Memphians couldn't care less what the rest of the world thought of the performer.

It started when Kaufman came to the Southern city and wrestled women.

"He took great pleasure in backhanding women and doing anything he could to embarrass them," Russell says. "Even though he was the top comedy figure on television with his 'Taxi' role, they didn't think it was anything to laugh about."

The feud grew to epic proportions when Lawler and Kaufman appeared on "Late Night with David Letterman" in the summer of 1982. It was Letterman's first year of the show, back when it was on NBC after Johnny Carson's "Tonight Show." He was already making waves with all sorts of crazy stuff.

Lawler walked out to a cacophony of boos. Kaufman wore his infamous neck brace from that first Memphis match with Lawler. "I could've sued you for everything you're worth," screamed Kaufman. "Only I didn't. Because I'm not that kind of guy."

"What kind of guy are you?" Lawler said in Shakespearean fashion.

Lawler stood and slapped Kaufman, who then launched his tirade.

It remains among the greatest Letterman moments of all time. The video went viral long before the Internet gave rise to the term, with people across the country clamoring for bootlegged VHS and Beta tapes of the incident. "When you're talking about the great Top 20 things that happened on Letterman in his golden age," Syracuse's Thomson says, the Kaufman-Lawler exchange definitely makes the list.

"One of the reasons it's stood the test of time is it seemed like one of those moments where something has gone terribly wrong on a television show, where you're watching something that wasn't supposed to happen. I mean, even by the standards of the 'Jersey Shore,' Andy Kaufman's behavior was just really bad, just so uncivilized."

And what began as a small-town feud erupted. The Kaufman-Lawler gig would help transform the wrestling industry into today's multimillion-dollar juggernaut, paving the way for Hollywood and wrestling to intertwine. Soon, singer Cyndi Lauper and actor Laurence Tureaud -- best known as "Mr. T" on the hit show "The A-Team" -- were in the ring.

Yet two years after the ruse began, the befuddling entertainer died suddenly of a rare cancer at the age of 35 at Cedars Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles.

A cult following ensued. Sightings of Kaufman as Tony Clifton were reported. People couldn't help but wonder: Was Kaufman pulling off his greatest stunt?

"I still try to hold onto a little bit of hope that he didn't really die," Thompson admits. "But I have to say, if he is going to come back and still have an audience, he'd better do it pretty soon."

120404101456-kaufman-wrestling-03-custom-1.jpg

Kaufman left the arena on a stretcher and an ambulance rushed him to the hospital.
The Commercial Appeal


The Piledriver Heard Round the World

The Mid-South Coliseum seethed. I thrust my fist into the air. I wanted blood, just like the 11,200 others in the arena. Lawler had just delivered his delightful line: "Did you come down here to wrestle or act like an ass?"
The King hopped back into the ring. You could feel Kaufman's knees quivering.

A budding artist, Lawler had gotten his start in wrestling a decade earlier by sketching wrestling cartoons and sending them to Lance Russell. The announcer loved the renditions and invited him to the studio. Lawler was a natural showman and had the build of a wrestler. He started training with the city's best.

Now, I was about to witness the greatest masterpiece in wrestling history.

Lawler hoisted the Hollywood star over his shoulder and above his head, and slammed him to the mat. "Kaufman is down and may be out," Russell told his TV audience.

"Nahh, his leg is twitching."

Lawler motioned to the crowd, signaling his next move.

It was as if he asked us: Should I hurt him even more? The roof nearly blew off the coliseum with a collective, "Hell, yeah."

Lawler was about to deliver the Piledriver Heard Round the World. He put Kaufman's head between his legs and leaped into the air. The upside-down Kaufman kicked his legs in midair, like a scaredy cat, for extra dramatic effect.

Bam!

Kaufman lay motionless. His legs twitched some more.

Feeling the crowd's call for vengeance, Lawler moved in for the kill. He grabbed Kaufman by the head and dragged him to center stage.

"He's gonna give it to him again," Russell said.

Bam!

Kaufman didn't move for about 15 minutes. He looked dead. Lawler held his hands in the air in celebration. The coliseum filled with a mix of jubilation, exuberance and anxiety.

Amid the commotion, unbeknownst to the crowd, a conversation unfolded inside the ring, according to insiders.

Lawler felt the shenanigans had gone on long enough, that it was time to head to the locker room. "I want an ambulance," the sprawled-out Kaufman told the referee.

The ref ran over to Lawler, tapped him on the shoulder and told him of Kaufman's request. "An ambulance is gonna cost us $250," Lawler said. "Tell him to get up and go to the back."

To this, Kaufman replied: "Tell him I'll pay for it."
It's the best 250 bucks ever spent in entertainment. A stretcher carted Kaufman off, and an ambulance rushed him to the hospital.

At school the next day, one kid recommended a class prayer for Kaufman. He was immediately booed. The prayer request was rescinded. A piledriving epidemic broke out in gym class in the ensuing days, to the point where the wrestling move was banned from school.

The ruse had everyone fooled. Even reporters got taken for a ride.

From his bed at St. Francis Hospital, Kaufman told TV crews: "I always thought wrestling wasn't real, but apparently, I guess, at least this one was." He spoke with a weird chin-strap contraption around his head.

Kaufman told The Washington Post he wished he'd never stepped into the ring. "I thought I was a champion wrestler, an athlete, a macho guy," he said.

Lawler told the paper, "I felt I had to hurt him for the credibility of wrestling and for my own credibility.

"I could've hit him in the face and broken his nose; I could've ripped out his eye; I could've ripped off his arm.

But then, they'd have helped him out of the ring and he'd be walking around all bloody, and he'd have gotten a lot of sympathy," Lawler said. "But I knew if his neck was hurt ... they'd have to come into the ring and cart him off on a stretcher."

Lawler would go on to become one of the nation's top wrestlers. (He declined comment for this story.)

Announcer Lance Russell loved it all. "I am here to tell you," he says, "some way, somehow, it just all came together. It was just so much fun. It was so crazy."

His co-host, Dave Brown, lets me in on a secret.

Sometimes, if Kaufman and Lawler had a huge Monday-night match that Brown missed because he had to deliver the weather forecast at the local TV station, he would discover a post-match ritual.

"They'd be at the coliseum, supposedly trying to kill each other, and then I'd get off the 10 o'clock newscast and walk into the newsroom, and Jerry and Andy would be sitting in an edit booth discussing what had happened and where to go from there.

"I found that fascinating -- that they worked so closely together to make sure it worked," he says. "If Lawler had not been totally on board with it and if Andy had not been totally on board with it, it would never have worked at all."

And work it did.

Genius.

CNN's Todd Leopold contributed to this story.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/07/us/kaufman-lawler-wrestling-match/index.html

Now thats how you use a celebrity in a storyline and it worked out perfectly. Memphis Championship Wrestling was great aswell back in the 80s, it was ECW before ECW.
 
Nell makes a valid point about the drama and it's importance in wrestling. There is truth in some of the statements he's making. Where Nell misses the mark however is that it's the in-ring action and "sporting" aspect that drives the drama, not the other way around. The drama, whether it be promos, videos, or whatever other criteria you want to use, is the supplemental material to wrestling. It's the wrestling that will always be the main attraction to the product for the fans. The reason the drama isn't the sole drawing force is because despite the fact fans know it's "worked" they still want to treat what happens in the ring as a legitimate sport. That's why rubs, wins, losses, and squashes are important. WWE fans love Santino and the entertainment aspect, but no WWE fan would ever buy him in a World title program, and that's because he has no credibilty in his wins. At it's heart, fans still treat pro wrestling as they would any other sport.

Just to validate my point, take a look at Starrcade 97. Sting vs. Hogan had perhaps one of the greatest build-ups in professional wrestling history. That match drew a ton of interest and was WCW best drawing match in the company's history. The drama was very important. But guess what? In the end all of it did not matter and it failed because Sting, who won the match, was not put over clean by Hogan and was largely squashed before he got the submission. This moment was the turning point for WCW and the beginning of their downslide. Sting was never the same after that either and his draw and popularity took a hit as well due to the fact fans saw him as the guy who did not go over. He looked weak in his win. It's not just about wins and losses. The fans want to believe the top guys are legit athletes who deserve their spot. That's what draws fans in the end. Yes the drama is important, but it's not what turns the business and allows it to thrive.

All you have to do is take a look at the wrestling industry and the way it operates now versus to how it drew during it's highest periods to see the difference. I don't even want to get into the characters that are put over today and the difference among workers on top today versus yesterday. HHH/Taker/HBK is the end of era in more ways that you know.

Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I'll get around to writing the article I was going to put up taking a look at the business today compared to years prior.
 
Never said it was a totally different company. But you basically said it was the exact same company when you either haven't watched much or at all. Are you gonna tell me Kurt Angle vs Mick Foley in the main event is the EXACT same thing as Robert Roode vs James Storm in main event? That Austin Aries as X Div champ is the same as someone like RVD holding that belt? And what about the periods where you admit you didn't watch?

Did you watch TNA and still see Steiner? Booker? Foley? Nash? Hall? If its the same TNA where are these old timers? Wheres Jeff Jarrett and his shrill wife? Did you see them hanging around? Watching one week and slathering an entire period with the same brush is a pretty broad and uninformed generalization

And yeah Garrett Bischoff does suck...about as much as seeing Johnny Ace on my tv screen TWICE a week now. Way to push that young talent from The Dynamic Dudes. And before that there was 53 year old dust knees Kevin Nash screwing their champion. And after that his buddy the Nose of Noses leeching off Punk. And now we got a 40 year old not even part timer going over the hardest working face of he company. Real youth movement.


Thats more pie in the sky. Why would he get tired of making TEN times as much money for doing work that is far less physically dangerous and strenuous? I remember people saying last year that your possibility might happen after he came back but it didn't. The only way he's going to get tired of acting is if his career totally chokes. Even then he could still potentially make more money than in WWE. He's done everything to do in wrestling. Hollywood is his mountain to climb and he hasn't reached the peak yet. He's basically said that himself.

It's the same TNA every time I watch it. I tuned in just about an hour ago and Dixie Carter was on my screen again. This woman makes Johnny Ace look as charismatic as Christian. Sure I don't see those guys, but I still see it's horribly run even with the great talent they have. Until they get guys who can actually run a company, then I just don't care for it.
 
Oh about us ****ting on Del Rio or Miz.At least Miz was build up with the U.S. Title and MITB.Del Rio has been shoved down our throats with nothing to show for it. He's decent in the ring but on the mic he had potential at first, but now he's absolutely dreadful. We **** on him because he's getting a push he doesn't deserve.
 
Dean Ambrose continues to go after Foley on twitter:
Nah, In a perfect world id rather see his house repoed and his family starved than see Mick make another dime off wrestling @StevieChanMan
I Just watched Edge's full Hof speech. Big fan of Edge, too bad he had to retire so young #ThanksMick
Everything. He raised the bar of stupidity so high everyone ruined themselves tryin 2 get 2 it @ihatedarren.: what's Mick gotta do with it?
 
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been watching some of ambrose's promos on fcw, his promos are really good
he reminds me of roddy piper if his voice was mixed with daffy duck and ledger's joker

he wrestled a damn good match with cm punk recently, anyone know when he'll be called up to the main roster ?
 
Nell makes a valid point about the drama and it's importance in wrestling. There is truth in some of the statements he's making. Where Nell misses the mark however is that it's the in-ring action and "sporting" aspect that drives the drama, not the other way around. The drama, whether it be promos, videos, or whatever other criteria you want to use, is the supplemental material to wrestling. It's the wrestling that will always be the main attraction to the product for the fans. The reason the drama isn't the sole drawing force is because despite the fact fans know it's "worked" they still want to treat what happens in the ring as a legitimate sport. That's why rubs, wins, losses, and squashes are important. WWE fans love Santino and the entertainment aspect, but no WWE fan would ever buy him in a World title program, and that's because he has no credibilty in his wins. At it's heart, fans still treat pro wrestling as they would any other sport.

Just to validate my point, take a look at Starrcade 97. Sting vs. Hogan had perhaps one of the greatest build-ups in professional wrestling history. That match drew a ton of interest and was WCW best drawing match in the company's history. The drama was very important. But guess what? In the end all of it did not matter and it failed because Sting, who won the match, was not put over clean by Hogan and was largely squashed before he got the submission. This moment was the turning point for WCW and the beginning of their downslide. Sting was never the same after that either and his draw and popularity took a hit as well due to the fact fans saw him as the guy who did not go over. He looked weak in his win. It's not just about wins and losses. The fans want to believe the top guys are legit athletes who deserve their spot. That's what draws fans in the end. Yes the drama is important, but it's not what turns the business and allows it to thrive.

All you have to do is take a look at the wrestling industry and the way it operates now versus to how it drew during it's highest periods to see the difference. I don't even want to get into the characters that are put over today and the difference among workers on top today versus yesterday. HHH/Taker/HBK is the end of era in more ways that you know.

Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I'll get around to writing the article I was going to put up taking a look at the business today compared to years prior.

I get what you're saying, but there's a weird dynamic in treating professional wrestling as a real sport.

Obviously, that's what sets it apart from a standard soap opera is the fact that it is presented as an actual sporting event. And that illusion, you are correct, is a major, if not the major driving point behind the business. And I get that, and that's one of the major reasons why I love it. It's a fictionalized, exaggerated sporting event, of a bunch of huge sports personalities talking trash and beating the crap out of each other.

But when it starts to get all smarky, and the "rubs" and all of that are so over analyzed to every little detail, people begin to make more out of it than even real sports.

Perfect example: Before all the "Yes! Yes! Yes!" chants, and apparently a badass promo on SmackDown! (I missed it due to my Comcast service ****ing up on the DVR), people were *****ing about how Bryan got "buried", and all that work he did to get himself over was for nothing, wasted.

But - if you want to compare it to a real sport, because you're using that illusion of professional wrestling as a real sport to justify it, then saying Daniel Bryan got "buried" is totally bogus.

Let's take professional football, for a moment, because it's my favorite sport. The equivalent of a squash match would be a total beatdown of the other team. Say... the 49ers beating the Denver Broncos 55-10 in the Super Bowl. However, that loss in the Super Bowl didn't "taint" the legacy of John Elway. He was still considered one of the greatest of all time, even before he ever got his championship rings in his last 2 years.

Which is exactly why I defended the squash job, and saw it as a perfect opportunity for Daniel Bryan to build his character (and seemingly, his character is now over more than ever) - the squash job isn't a reflection that Daniel Bryan sucks, and has no credibility. It's a reflection that he allowed himself to be distracted by AJ, and Sheamus capitalized on the situation. Sucks for him that he got caught in that situation, but that doesn't make him any less credible of a threat going forward.

So, even using real sports as a reference point, over analyzing "squashes", "burials", "putting over", "passing the torch", or "giving the rub" is still entirely pointless, because the greats make a name for themselves, they make themselves great. Even with far fewer championships than Tom Brady, or Joe Montana, Peyton Manning is arguably the greatest QB of all time. Even without a single championship to his name, Dan Marino is arguably the greatest QB of all time.

And that's why I constantly say John Cena doesn't need the "torch" passed to him by The Rock - John Cena is the freaking star, and the face of his generation with or without that "rub" - because by whatever means, he made himself the face of his generation, even if a section of the fanbase is tired of him. That's where I start saying "wins don't matter", because if a guy is over, he's going to be over, and he's going to be credible win or lose. Losing to The Rock didn't suddenly make John Cena less credible. It didn't suddenly damage his legacy. John Cena is still John Cena, the face of his generation, one way or another.

I'm not saying that one (promos) is more important than the other (matches), I'm saying that without the promos, the story, the drama, professional wrestling is nothing. Some may cite the examples of the days of little promos and drama, but those were the days when wrestling was perceived to be real, it didn't need the drama and pageantry to get attention. Now, nobody will take it seriously as a pure display of athletic competition, because it's not. They can go to MMA or boxing for that. People go to wrestling because of the combination of choreographed fighting that is exciting and entertaining, as well as the drama, story, character, pageantry, of it all. It is the combination of live sporting event and live theater that makes professional wrestling. But yes, for me, due to the nature of it being choreographed, and the fights not real, there is a point where character takes priority over in ring ability - and that's where I say "if you don't make me care about your character, I don't care about your match / in ring ability" because ultimately, the "in ring ability" boils down to choreographed moves that require the cooperation of your opponent in the match with you, and there is no real consequence because of the scripted and choreographed nature of it. The consequence comes in the form of what happens to these characters, how do the stories progress...

And that's not to say there is no skill, talent or what have you with the in ring ability. I've talked countless times about the guys who "wow" me in the ring - but even then a lot of it comes down to the over the top, exaggerated styles that these guys put on.

That's why largely submission guys like Daniel Bryan ultimately bore me, because if I want to see someone lock in a submission hold, I'll watch an MMA fight where that scissor guillotine chokehold actually has consequences.
 
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Dean Ambrose continues to go after Foley on twitter:

really loving this little 'fued'' they got going on, its reminding me slightly of Austin vs Bret, when Austin first began fueding with Bret.
 
been watching some of ambrose's promos on fcw, his promos are really good
he reminds me of roddy piper if his voice was mixed with daffy duck and ledger's joker

he wrestled a damn good match with cm punk recently, anyone know when he'll be called up to the main roster ?

Ross has said that several of FCW stars will make their way to the raw or smackdown brand real soon.
 
I get what you're saying, but there's a weird dynamic in treating professional wrestling as a real sport.

Obviously, that's what sets it apart from a standard soap opera is the fact that it is presented as an actual sporting event. And that illusion, you are correct, is a major, if not the major driving point behind the business. And I get that, and that's one of the major reasons why I love it. It's a fictionalized, exaggerated sporting event, of a bunch of huge sports personalities talking trash and beating the crap out of each other.

But when it starts to get all smarky, and the "rubs" and all of that are so over analyzed to every little detail, people begin to make more out of it than even real sports.

Perfect example: Before all the "Yes! Yes! Yes!" chants, and apparently a badass promo on SmackDown! (I missed it due to my Comcast service ****ing up on the DVR), people were *****ing about how Bryan got "buried", and all that work he did to get himself over was for nothing, wasted.

But - if you want to compare it to a real sport, because you're using that illusion of professional wrestling as a real sport to justify it, then saying Daniel Bryan got "buried" is totally bogus.

Let's take professional football, for a moment, because it's my favorite sport. The equivalent of a squash match would be a total beatdown of the other team. Say... the 49ers beating the Denver Broncos 55-10 in the Super Bowl. However, that loss in the Super Bowl didn't "taint" the legacy of John Elway. He was still considered one of the greatest of all time, even before he ever got his championship rings in his last 2 years.

Which is exactly why I
defended the squash job, and saw it as a perfect opportunity for Daniel Bryan to build his character (and seemingly, his character is now over more than ever) - the squash job isn't a reflection that Daniel Bryan sucks, and has no credibility. It's a reflection that he allowed himself to be distracted by AJ, and Sheamus capitalized on the situation. Sucks for him that he got caught in that situation, but that doesn't make him any less credible of a threat going forward.

So, even using
real sports as a reference point, over analyzing "squashes", "burials", "putting over", "passing the torch", or "giving the rub" is still entirely pointless, because the greats make a name for themselves, they make themselves great. Even with far fewer championships than Tom Brady, or Joe Montana, Peyton Manning is arguably the greatest QB of all time. Even without a single championship to his name, Dan Marino is arguably the greatest QB of all time.

And that's why I constantly say John Cena doesn't need the "torch" passed to him by The Rock - John Cena is the freaking star, and the face of his generation with or without that "rub" - because by whatever means, he made himself the face of his generation, even if a section of the fanbase is tired of him. That's where I start saying "wins don't matter", because if a guy is over, he's going to be over, and he's going to be credible win or lose. Losing to The Rock didn't suddenly make John Cena less credible. It didn't suddenly damage his legacy. John Cena is still John Cena, the face of his generation, one way or another.

See but this is where the distinction between real sports and pro wrestling matters. Fans know the outcome is worked, and even though they want the wrestlers and matches treated as serious, they also don't want it treated so real that the wrestler gets squashed in less than a minute. It's much more than that. A guy like Cain Velasquez can get knocked out in the first minute by JDS in the UFC and still be considered a legit top guy who can be champion again. In pro wrestling it cannot work that way, no matter the reason or distractions, because the fans expect more given that it's a work and they know better. All a squash does is tell the fans "yea that guy isn't that special."

John is going to be over and a star win or lose, but it doesn't change the fact by losing to the Rock, you've told your fans (past, present, or potential future that tuned in for the first time) that he's still not as good as they guys from the past. You've weakened his potential draw by saying he cannot beat a 40 year old star who hasn't wrestled in 8 years. Basically it's making people say "why should I care and stick around when I know these guys aren't on the same level as the old stars." Once again, I'll point back to Sting/Hogan at Starrcade. Sting was already a huge star and multi-time world champion. Losing to Hogan did not change that. But what it did do was kill and potential he had to be bigger and it weakened his value.

Hell even in real combat sports they use the building stars method with established names and stars. That's why young fighters get matched against big names even if they aren't legit contenders anymore. Those wins matter to the audience. There is articles and match-ups made all the time on it. It is the EXACT same reasoning. Trust me.

I'm not saying that one (promos) is more important than the other (matches), I'm saying that without the promos, the story, the drama, professional wrestling is nothing. Some may cite the examples of the days of little promos and drama, but those were the days when wrestling was perceived to be real, it didn't need the drama and pageantry to get attention. Now, nobody will take it seriously as a pure display of athletic competition, because it's not. They can go to MMA or boxing for that. People go to wrestling because of the combination of choreographed fighting that is exciting and entertaining, as well as the drama, story, character, pageantry, of it all. It is the combination of live sporting event and live theater that makes professional wrestling. But yes, for me, due to the nature of it being choreographed, and the fights not real, there is a point where character takes priority over in ring ability - and that's where I say "if you don't make me care about your character, I don't care about your match / in ring ability" because ultimately, the "in ring ability" boils down to choreographed moves that require the cooperation of your opponent in the match with you, and there is no real consequence because of the scripted and choreographed nature of it. The consequence comes in the form of what happens to these characters, how do the stories progress...

And that's not to say there is no skill, talent or what have you with the in ring ability. I've talked countless times about the guys who "wow" me in the ring - but even then a lot of it comes down to the over the top, exaggerated styles that these guys put on.

That's why largely submission guys like Daniel Bryan ultimately bore me, because if I want to see someone lock in a submission hold, I'll watch an MMA fight where that scissor guillotine chokehold actually has consequences.
You do realize that MMA and pro wrestling are practically the same don't you? MMA uses promos rivalries, vignettes to build a fight and establish characters. Chael Sonnen and Frank Mir are the perfect example of guys who kayfabe for their fights. It's not just the pure sporting aspect of it that draws UFC fans. That's why Paul Heyman was brought in to help Shane Carwin in his interviews and video countdown before he fought JDS. The only difference is the UFC has legitimate outcomes and Pro wrestling doesn't and is more over the top with grander theatrics. What happens in the Octagon and ring is the drawing force behind both, but without the drama and stories, neither would be as successful. They are the same in principal however.
 
Ross has said that several of FCW stars will make their way to the raw or smackdown brand real soon.

Yep and Sandow has already appeared on TV, so it's a matter of time.
 
I remember a time where this thread was fun to read.. I have not posted here for a LONG time but I visit it almost everyday and I am so tired of Nell whining and taking up post space with his multiple paragraph essays defending himself because other people don't agree with him.
Why don't you just suck it up and leave it be whether you are right(hardly) or you are wrong and stop whining like a little *****
 
See but this is where the distinction between real sports and pro wrestling matters. Fans know the outcome is worked, and even though they want the wrestlers and matches treated as serious, they also don't want it treated so real that the wrestler gets squashed in less than a minute. It's much more than that. A guy like Cain Velasquez can get knocked out in the first minute by JDS in the UFC and still be considered a legit top guy who can be champion again. In pro wrestling it cannot work that way, no matter the reason or distractions, because the fans expect more given that it's a work and they know better. All a squash does is tell the fans "yea that guy isn't that special."

John is going to be over and a star win or lose, but it doesn't change the fact by losing to the Rock, you've told your fans (past, present, or potential future that tuned in for the first time) that he's still not as good as they guys from the past. You've weakened his potential draw by saying he cannot beat a 40 year old star who hasn't wrestled in 8 years. Basically it's making people say "why should I care and stick around when I know these guys aren't on the same level as the old stars." Once again, I'll point back to Sting/Hogan at Starrcade. Sting was already a huge star and multi-time world champion. Losing to Hogan did not change that. But what it did do was kill and potential he had to be bigger and it weakened his value.

Hell even in real combat sports they use the building stars method with established names and stars. That's why young fighters get matched against big names even if they aren't legit contenders anymore. Those wins matter to the audience. There is articles and match-ups made all the time on it. It is the EXACT same reasoning. Trust me.


You do realize that MMA and pro wrestling are practically the same don't you? MMA uses promos rivalries, vignettes to build a fight and establish characters. Chael Sonnen and Frank Mir are the perfect example of guys who kayfabe for their fights. It's not just the pure sporting aspect of it that draws UFC fans. That's why Paul Heyman was brought in to help Shane Carwin in his interviews and video countdown before he fought JDS. The only difference is the UFC has legitimate outcomes and Pro wrestling doesn't and is more over the top with grander theatrics. What happens in the Octagon and ring is the drawing force behind both, but without the drama and stories, neither would be as successful. They are the same in principal however.

And that is where I (and nearly everyone I watch and talk wrestling with outside of this website) ultimately differ on wrestling, because a "squash match", or a guy "not getting the rub", doesn't do any damage what so ever for me to a guy.

To take the John Cena thing as an example - I don't need The Rock beating him to know that John Cena isn't as good as The Rock. All I have to do is have seen The Rock's work, and John Cena's work, to be able to figure that out. John Cena winning would ultimately be shoving this inferior (by comparison) guy down my throat even farther, screaming "HE'S GOOD! SEE! HE'S GOOD!!" and make me hate John Cena even more. At least for me (and that's all I care about, Metallo, Hunter, and everyone else is right when they say I don't care about the business. I don't. I care about what entertains me. If the product entertains me, I watch, if the product doesn't entertain me, I don't watch. I'm not, and I will not, resort to over analyzing every single element and outcome to judge it on a "what's good for business?" criteria. I cannot fathom how guys like Metallo, Hunter, and others who do that can even enjoy the product when they are over analyzing every minute detail, even going so far as to say one guy got "buried" because he won the title by pinning the wrong guy in the triple threat match. I will not resort to watching wrestling through those glasses) there is more value in The Rock winning, because he was part of a better era, he was the better superstar, and him winning doesn't damage John Cena, in fact it goes a long way towards mending the wounds of hatred I've developed for John Cena, because now I actually feel like he won't be shoved down my throat so much.

Daniel Bryan wasn't damaged in my eyes because he got squashed. I haven't seen SmackDown! to know how things followed up, but in my eyes it makes him more interesting because there are now new storyline directions to take this. While I might not be a huge Daniel Bryan fan, I will (and already have) admit that he has greatly stepped up his character work, even if it's not main event level character work in my eyes. But having already shown great improvement in his character, I don't see why he can't make the best of this situation and turn it into a positive, and it sounds like that is exactly what's happening.

But that is why I do, and always will, differ from the mentality of this thread, because "burials", "rubs", "going over", whatever, that **** doesn't matter to me, not the way it does to you all. And I know it doesn't matter to the people I watch and talk wrestling with. They watch it to be entertained, and it entertains us. Just because I don't give 2 ****s about the "rub" doesn't mean I don't like the product (I mean, seriously, is that what we're resorting to here, saying I'm not a wrestling fan, when I'm in here every day talking about, watching both shows every week, spending money on every PPV, and spending money to go to events and buy merchandise?? REALLY??!!), it doesn't mean I don't understand it (I understand it very well, I just choose to leave all of that to the people behind the scenes, while I watch what's on camera and be entertained by it). I don't, and I won't, turn to judging wrestling on it's "behind the scenes" implications, but rather, I do, and I will, watch it and judge it on it's entertainment implications, as determined by characters, stories, twists, and matches.
 
I remember a time where this thread was fun to read.. I have not posted here for a LONG time but I visit it almost everyday and I am so tired of Nell whining and taking up post space with his multiple paragraph essays defending himself because other people don't agree with him.
Why don't you just suck it up and leave it be whether you are right(hardly) or you are wrong and stop whining like a little *****

Why don't you put me on ignore if you don't like what I have to say?

I will continue to express my opinion, as well as defend myself from people in here who continuously twist my words and insult me because I don't see things the same way they do.
 
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