Homecoming The Zendaya is Mary Jane thread

[Fincher]

Is it really racebending if she's one half, when biracial actors go for non-biracial minority parts it's accurate, but not when it's the other way around...

It doesn't always go that way. Rashida Jones is black and white, but if she were cast as Misty Knight, I'm pretty sure there'd be objections.

At any rate, I'm not concerned with the technicality of it. If there was a girl who was only white but didn't look right as a redhead, I'd be against her being cast in the role, too.

 

[X Knight]

That wig is not great, but she's rocked blonde before I believe.

Spoiler

But I believe you're totally right in thinking that they're not going red if Zendaya is MJ, and if they do want her as a redhead, they'll probably want it orange like so many other natural redheads of all races b/c it'll look natural for Zendaya.

Spoiler

Like that, or maybe a darker orange like this.

Is it really racebending if she's one half, when biracial actors go for non-biracial minority parts it's accurate, but not when it's the other way around...

yes. it is race bending.

some people who are bi-racial can still "white pass."

Zendaya, however, doesn't fall into that category, imo. I look at all those pictures above and I'd say she's either black or Latina if I didn't know her race ( she looks a bit like Selena Gomez in some of those pics ).

She's a pretty girl, no doubt, but she can't pass for Caucasian which is what the character is supposed to be.

 

[X Knight]

It doesn't always go that way. Rashida Jones is black and white, but if she were cast as Misty Knight, I'm pretty sure there'd be objections.

At any rate, I'm not concerned with the technicality of it. If there was a girl who was only white but didn't look right as a redhead, I'd be against her being cast in the role, too.

I just looked Rashida up. She's an example of someone who's biracial who can "white pass."

if I didn't know she's mixed black and white, I would think she's Caucasian just from looking at her initially. And I wouldn't want Rashida playing Storm or another black character even though technically she's part black. She doesn't look the part.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Or maybe she tested the best against Tom Holland. But no. Black skin = has to be stunt casting.

Seriously, though.

I really hope this place can cope if she does indeed turn out to be MJ, 'cause otherwise I'll have to avoid the Spidey forums for a good bit.

 

[X Knight]

Black skin does not = stunt casting.

changing a character's race when it doesn't really need to be changed does = stunt casting.

if Zendaya beat out other girls of a variety of races because they felt she was best suited for the part, then so be it.

 

[harryoscop]

Black skin does not = stunt casting.

changing a character's race when it doesn't really need to be changed does = stunt casting.

if Zendaya beat out other girls of a variety of races because they felt she was best suited for the part, then so be it.

That's probably what happened. No way they only looked at black actresses for the role.

 

[The Infernal]

Is it really racebending if she's one half

It's arguably not the correct language to use since she is also white. Regardless I think you knew my point was that she was identifiably mixed race and that I was saying I'd prefer someone who more resembled the character. In my view if someone can pass for the race being cast for that is part of their mixed heritage then they should ideally have a chance.

when biracial actors go for non-biracial minority parts it's accurate, but not when it's the other way around...

Not that I've ever said this or know that this is some kind of universal rule.

Or maybe she tested the best against Tom Holland. But no. Black skin = has to be stunt casting.

Thanks for reading my mind.

 

[X Knight]

That's probably what happened. No way they only looked at black actresses for the role.

that's why I'm really curious to see who else tested for the role, other than Zendaya and Amandla.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

changing a character's race when it doesn't really need to be changed does = stunt casting.

Maybe they had no desire to change her race. But Michelle having tested the best made it 'necessary' to change her race. Because she is black and you can't change that. I mean you can, but the CGI/make up required isn't very cost proof.

 

[Loki882]

They already cast Marisa Tomei as Aunt Hottie...I mean Aunt May. So clearly they don't have a problem making changes if they feel like it'll help the story that they're telling now in the films.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Imagine if Aunt May was an aging woman like she is in the comics but happened to be black. Oh the outrage!

 

[X Knight]

Maybe they had no desire to change her race. But Michelle having tested the best made it 'necessary' to change her race. Because she is black and you can't change that. I mean you can, but the CGI/make up required isn't very cost proof.

if they had no desire to change MJ's race, then they wouldn't even test Zendaya for the role in the first place. Just like they shouldn't be testing white actresses to play Storm or a white actor to play Black Panther.

unless Zendaya tested for a different role, completely blew them away, and they felt she'd be better suited as MJ and cast her and thus had to rewrite MJ.

much like Jesse Eisenberg originally tested for a different role in BvS, but they cast him as Lex instead and rewrote the character to suit him.

so, I supposed it could happen like that. however, since in hindsight it didn't work out too well for Eisenberg as Lex ( judging by the reception ), maybe it's not such a good idea to rewrite a character to change a particular actor but instead try to stay true to the source material.

 

[X Knight]

They already cast Marisa Tomei as Aunt Hottie...I mean Aunt May. So clearly they don't have a problem making changes if they feel like it'll help the story that they're telling now in the films.

that's not quite the same.......

 

[The Infernal]

That's probably what happened. No way they only looked at black actresses for the role.

Could be. Maybe I'm just overreacting given Sony/Pascal and Paul Fieg's handling of Ghostbusters marketing and the leaked e-mails from the Sony hacks that make me quick to believe they may have had a specific vision in mind rather than simply held a more open casting session.

 

[X Knight]

Imagine if Aunt May was an aging woman like she is in the comics but happened to be black. Oh the outrage!

if Aunt May was originally black in the comics, and Peter was originally black in the comics, and they cast white actors for both roles, then you can bet there WOULD be outrage.

I would be protesting, just as I am with Zendaya possibly playing MJ.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

if they had no desire to change MJ's race, then they wouldn't even test Zendaya for the role in the first place.

By no desire I meant no intent to cast a black actor deliberately. But to keep an open mind in the casting process and test with a variety of girls. I didn't mean an extremist, dogmatic "only white" filtering process where someone with darker skin won't even be entertained.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

if Aunt May was originally black in the comics, and Peter was originally black in the comics, and they cast white actors for both roles, then you can bet there WOULD be outrage.

Of course there would be. But it would be because of further limiting the already limited roles a black person could play. Not because of the integrity of a skin color.

 

[X Knight]

By no desire I meant no intent to cast a black actor deliberately. But to keep an open mind in the casting process and test with a variety of girls. I didn't mean an extremist, dogmatic "only white" filtering process where someone with darker skin won't even be entertained.

but it they were sticking true to the source material, they wouldn't even entertain testing someone who wasn't Caucasian or someone who can "white pass."

there would be a strict casting filter, I'd say ( "Caucasian actresses aged 17-20", for example ).

if they went for a more open audition, then that means they were open to changing the character and thus deviate from the source material.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

much like Jesse Eisenberg originally tested for a different role in BvS, but they cast him as Lex instead and rewrote the character to suit him.

so, I supposed it could happen like that. however, since in hindsight it didn't work out too well for Eisenberg as Lex ( judging by the reception ), maybe it's not such a good idea to rewrite a character to change a particular actor but instead try to stay true to the source material.

I'm confident most Spider-man fans don't put race on the same level of importance as characterization.

 

[X Knight]

Of course there would be. But it would be because of further limiting the already limited roles a black person could play. Not because of the integrity of a skin color.

oh, I'm sure integrity of a skin color would be a factor in the outrage.

it certainly would be for me.

 

[X Knight]

I'm confident most Spider-man fans don't put race on the same level of importance as characterization.

if characterization is more important, then Peter can be black, Asian, or Latino.

Storm could be white or Asian or Latina.

Captain America could be black, Asian, or Latina.

etc.

they could change the race but keep the characterizations of those characters intact.

you could technically change the race of any character but keep the characterization the same.

doesn't mean that would be the right decision.

 

[Loki882]

I think that, IF Zendaya ends up playing MJ (a big if at this point), then it likely came down to her nailing her audition and/or chemistry with the other actors. Because I serious doubt that Marvel went in fixated on the idea that "we have to cast a Black/biracial actress to play this part." They likely were just willing to audition a wide variety of actresses, and she happened to be the best choice in this case in their minds.

 

[X Knight]

I think that, IF Zendaya ends up playing MJ (a big if at this point), then it likely came down to her nailing her audition and/or chemistry with the other actors. Because I serious doubt that Marvel went in fixated on the idea that "we have to cast a Black/biracial actress to play this part." They likely were just willing to audition a wide variety of actresses, and she happened to be the best choice in this case in their minds.

hopefully that is the case. and I would accept it, if that's the case.

I may not like it. and I might take me longer to warm up to the decision. but at least I'd accept it.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

but it they were sticking true to the source material, they wouldn't even entertain testing someone who wasn't Caucasian or someone who can "white pass."

It's almost as if they cast people in terms of qualities beyond pedantic visual likeliness. Maybe they are sticking to the source. But the source here means spirit of the source, not a translation of source.

if they went for a more open audition, then that means they were open to changing the character and thus deviate from the source material.

Changing the character? Outgoing? Being a party chick? Caring? Supportive of Peter? I didn't know black people could not be those things.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

if characterization is more important, then Peter can be black, Asian, or Latino.

Storm could be white or Asian or Latina.

Captain America could be black, Asian, or Latina.

etc.

they could change the race but keep the characterizations of those characters intact.

you could technically change the race of any character but keep the characterization the same.

doesn't mean that would be the right decision.

Yes, A black Peter Parker who acts like Peter Parker is preferable to a white one with the personality of Wolverine.