Things Schumacher Got RIGHT

[Leenie]

Some of the visuals of Gotham City as a whole were nice. Other than that, I can't give much praise to Schumacher.

I'm not trying to jump in the "I hate Schumacher" bandwagon, either. Even Burton's vision constructed very cringe-worthy moments for me (I love Batman '89, but I don't like Batman Returns).

 

[Mandalore464]

I too think that BF is still an ok movie. But the main thing I absolutely loved about these two films was Robin costume in Batman & Robin which should rather be called the Nightwing costume cause that's what it is.

At the time B&R was released I was only 12 and thus Robin was the character that appealed to me the most, compared to the adult serious broody Batman. I always liked the darker Nightwing costume far more than the Robin one, and I thought it was pretty cool to see it go live in this movie, even if the character was still "Robin" and it had nipples on it.

I now totally hate Robin for being a lousy excuse to appeal to kids and I wish he be removed from the Batman mythos forever (The irony of getting older).

Other than that, if I take step back and consider these two movies, I like :

- The Two-Face costume and makeup. Sure, the characterization couldn't be farther from the source character, but I just liked his futuristic punk looks. Now hear me on this, I would absolutely hate it if they made Two-Face that way in any other film than the Schumacher one, cause that's a look that works only in this context, I am not saying this is how Two-Face should look at all.

- The inclusion of Arkham Asylum, which has already been cited many times over in this thread.

- Val Kilmer. I'm not gonna say he is a better actor than Keaton, but he definitely looked the part more than the latter, and the Bruce Wayne character was better written in BF than it ever was in the Burton ones. The first time I watched a Batman film it was Batman Returns on VHS. I didn't know who played Bruce Wayne and when I saw Keaton stand up in his manor after the Bat Signal is activated I remember thinking "Who is this guy and what does he have to do with the Bat Signal?" When I understood later in the movie that he actually was Bruce Wayne/Batman, I wanted to cry so bad.

- The action scenes. Sure they don't look that good but I always thought of them as an improvement over the Burton's Batman who just stands in front of the baddies, spreads his wings open and... talks.

- The bad guys. I like that they chose to include Two-Face, Freeze and Bane. Except that they completely screw it. Good choice nonetheless.

- I like that they got rid of the bloody Burton's bat symbol. Why this yellow oval? It works in BTAS cause the suit's grey, but come on... Thank Batman Forever for giving the Batsuit its big black bat chest emblem.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

^ Are you talking about BF or B&R or both? Seems like a big mixed review haha

 

[Mandalore464]

Isn't the thread about "things Schumacher got right"? Did he not do both films?

Of course it's a mixed review.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Dont get smart with me boy!! ha

 

[Mandalore464]

Well that was a very dumb question considering the title of the thread and the fact I mention both films in my post.

I don't see the point of your intervention. "haha".

 

[Reflectionist]

The Yellow Oval is forgiveable, ever since I read something like the following:

'Why do you think I wear a yellow target on my chest? I can't armor my head."

 

[BatSpider]

Thing he got right:

Batman Forever

 

[TruerToTheCore]

I'm not trying to jump in the "I hate Schumacher" bandwagon, either. Even Burton's vision constructed very crin-worthy moments for me (I love Batman '89, but I don't like Batman Returns).

Yes, Batman Forever is better than Returns.

I still fail to see what Batman Returns has to do with the comics. And even as a movie on its own it is still poorly written.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I watched Forever again last night, and I absolutely loved it. The balance between comedy and drama is very similar to the two Burton films. Sure the Riddler and Two-Face have plenty of silly scenes, and sometimes the music even gets positively Looney Tunes, but the same thing happens in Batman and Batman Returns. The point of these villains is that they can be comedic, but they are also deadly. There is a real menace to both Two-Face and, especially at the climax, the Riddler. When they need to be, both Jones and Carrey are as sinister and sober as any supervillain.

There are plenty of dark themes in Forever, mainly obsession and revenge. The parallels between Dick and Bruce are deeper and darker than one might expect; Bruce sees himself as doomed, and tries to stop Dick following him into the shadows. Then there is the fate of the Riddler; he actually does suffer Bruce's fate, and it turns him insane. He always wanted to be Bruce Wayne, and he finally learns what it is to be him. Thus he ends cackling in a cell in Arkham. That's as dark an ending as you'll find in any superhero movie. It's fantastic. Just about every major theme of Batman is explored in this movie.

I'll aslo note that I am watching every Batman movie again prior to the release of The Dark Knight, and Batman and Batman Forever are the ones I have enjoyed most so far. The Batman Vs Dracula was also entertaining.

 

[Eggyman]

Agreed, Kev. I never had any problems whatsoever with Forever. I think its main flaw is that it often just gets cast aside and lambasted because of B&R - kinda like a guilty by association thing, in a way.

 

[MiniBond]

I was also watching Batman Forever last night and the circus scene for instance stroke me more than ever !

......just erase TLJ's dialogue and you have a powerful and meaningful dramatic moment (awesome close up of Wayne's eyes when he sees Dick's parents crashing on the ground......you can totally feel he's back in the death alley where his own parents got killed) !!! The score at this moment is pretty good too...!


It's a pretty decent movie in fact if you get rid of the silly villains ( even if they're funny as hell, especially Two face and his whimpers as he's talkingt:t:t

 

[HolyPurpleSocks]

I was also watching Batman Forever last night and the circus scene for instance stroke me more than ever !

......just erase TLJ's dialogue and you have a powerful and meaningful dramatic moment (awesome close up of Wayne's eyes when he sees Dick's parents crashing on the ground......you can totally feel he's back in the death alley where his own parents got killed) !!! The score at this moment is pretty good too...!


It's a pretty decent movie in fact if you get rid of the silly villains ( even if they're funny as hell, especially Two face and his whimpers as he's talkingt:t:t

Batman Forever's violins were incredible...Seriously- I loved the entire score, and this movie is hardwired into my memory. It's one amazing piece of cinema, honestly- even B&R has its fine points...People on these boards just need to stop being so negative. Plus, it's good to get MULTIPLE drastic takes on the character of Batman- so we know what we do and do not prefer. Although I think most would disagree.

 

[sasquatchs]

(Flamesuit on)
I'll confess - I love BF. For me it had the right mixture of everything compared to all the other batman movies.

And yes, BF's version of gotham worked just fine, sure it was bright and neon BUT a lot of cities in the east do start to look like that in the real life minus giant statues. Compared to the very boring gotham of BB, BF's gotham is a clear winner. BB's gotham is too "normal", I never got the feeling that I'm in parallel dimension but rather I'm watching a FILM with ACTORS (ACTING!), saying rather CHEESEY and PRETENIOUS things, pretending they're in a comic book city and trying hard to remember it's not CHICAGO.

While BF is far from being the perfect bat-film, for me the bigger disappointment is BB being REALLY far off the mark (more and more evident over multiple viewings). Sloppy editing at times, bad musical ques, nothing to show of Bruce's detective training; all I got was that he was some rich playboy with some ninja skills. He became the Bat too easily. Despite half the movie about his origin I never quite got the emotional backdrop of him actually questioning himself or doubting himself as to WHAT and WHY he wants to be this crazy crimefighter. I felt like he was nothing more than a millionaire mountain climber with dead parents.

Worst of all I never got a sense of mystery, totally felt like "spoonfed cinema", a term somebody made up here on this board. Bale's Bruce Wayne (not his fault but it's the problem with the script) was flat out BORING, none of his expressions or emotions really gripped me nearly as hard as Keaton. There was no real tears, real anger, real... anything. Half the time the guy was just looking surprised at the camera and the other half was used doing a lighter version of his Patrick Bateman impressions. A huge waste of Bale's acting capabilities.

Don't get me started on the garbage dialog between Bruce and Alfred on the airplane... You can't t have him thinking about using a giant bat as a symbol AND have him ACTUALLY say the world "symbol"... a writer shouldn't fill the page with dialog just to necessarily "complicate" a character, but rather SHOW the complexity through emotions and actions (thats what Keaton did so well), and not merely use words. Subtlety HAS to be a part of Bruce Wayne's dark side.

I'll give it to you that as a presentation BB looks nice but over time the movie's flaws are to me very apparent. So thus far there has been no REALLY great batman movies. Maybe in another 20 years we'll get a restart but until then I hope the next director has a bit of guts to make an emotional Bruce Wayne rather than paper-thin one dimensional pretty boy who are merely speaking out lines that nobody would ever say in real life.

Eloquently put

BB's setting is closer to my ideal but I still find B89 and BF's approach to the character more insightful and emotionally engaging than Nolan's supposedly grounded take so far, which seemed more interested in the supporting cast spouting truisms while Bruce wallowed. Usually I despise Akiva Goldsman even more than Goyer, not sure how things came together here, but at its core there's alot to like in BF.