TIH vs. Ang Lee's Hulk

[hopefuldreamer]

I really think if Lee's Hulk where released now, it'd have been better received than in 2003.

It was sort of just a bit ahead of it's time. It came out in the Raimi Spiderman/Singer's X-men era of superhero flicks, but I think it'd be a better fit in this new trend of moody thought provoking superhero flicks, whereas TIH seems like it would have worked back then instead.

It's like they just got it completely the wrong way round.

 

[CConn]

Y'know, this is actually a really good question.

I'm kind of in the middle on Ang Lee's Hulk. I never hated it, but it certainly isn't on the level of thr Batman, or even possibly X-Men or Spider-Man movies. The story was just a bit too convoluted and downright weird. It was like Lee was attempting to do a TDK-esque film; something that possibly works even better as a genre film than a superhero film, but just didn't have a scriptwriter quite talented enough to pull it off.

Outside of that, I liked mostly all of the other aspects of the film; the cinematography, art direction, score, even Lee's comic book panel editing trick worked great, IMO. And, most importantly he made it feel like its own, very legitimate film. Definitely a film that would be more suited for adults than children.

TIH however, is a simple, fun movie that really can't be called offensive to the character in any way. Edward Norton plays the role well - perhaps even better than Bana, and the script works like a Hulk fan's checklist; going down the list and making sure we got all of the intangible things we'd want in a Hulk movie.

That said, due to that simplicity, it lacks the gravitas and sense of style that Hulk had. TIH could never be mistaken for a groundbreaking or innovative film, it could never be mistaken for a piece of legitimate art that Hulk tried to be. And I think that hurts it to a certain degree. It's intangibles like that that differentiates The Dark Knights of the world from the Batman Forevers, or X-Men: First Classes from the Fantastic Fours.

All in all, I honestly don't know if I can even say. They're both mixed bags in my opinion.

 

[kedrell]

One would assume any Hulk fan's check list would have Hulk being portrayed as an actual character high up on it as well as both Banner and Hulk relating to/hating each other. IMO, both films failed to do that very important thing and I'd go so far as to say that's the single biggest obstacle to these movies being successful with the G/A so far. Other superheroes are still characters even when they put their tights on. But so far with Hulk(in live action) the moment Bruce changes then the character goes into limbo and all we have is an FX/action scene. And no body language BS will ever be able to adequately replace dialog from the Hulk(and 5-6 spoken words throughout the film just comes off as an insult to the character and not even close enough to really count).

Much as messing with the 616 origin irritated me, THIS is what really always got my goat.

 

[CConn]

That is a good point. I think there's some stigma surrounding the concept of having the Hulk mull over personal conflict.

 

[El Payaso]

Y'know, this is actually a really good question.

I'm kind of in the middle on Ang Lee's Hulk. I never hated it, but it certainly isn't on the level of thr Batman, or even possibly X-Men or Spider-Man movies. The story was just a bit too convoluted and downright weird. It was like Lee was attempting to do a TDK-esque film; something that possibly works even better as a genre film than a superhero film, but just didn't have a scriptwriter quite talented enough to pull it off.

Outside of that, I liked mostly all of the other aspects of the film; the cinematography, art direction, score, even Lee's comic book panel editing trick worked great, IMO. And, most importantly he made it feel like its own, very legitimate film. Definitely a film that would be more suited for adults than children.

TIH however, is a simple, fun movie that really can't be called offensive to the character in any way. Edward Norton plays the role well - perhaps even better than Bana, and the script works like a Hulk fan's checklist; going down the list and making sure we got all of the intangible things we'd want in a Hulk movie.

That said, due to that simplicity, it lacks the gravitas and sense of style that Hulk had. TIH could never be mistaken for a groundbreaking or innovative film, it could never be mistaken for a piece of legitimate art that Hulk tried to be. And I think that hurts it to a certain degree. It's intangibles like that that differentiates The Dark Knights of the world from the Batman Forevers, or X-Men: First Classes from the Fantastic Fours.

All in all, I honestly don't know if I can even say. They're both mixed bags in my opinion.

I agree with 95% of this.

What I didn't like about TIH was that feeling of it being a sequel to a movie that never existed. You have to assume Bruce and Betty are in love without any background and I had problems connecting with Bruce's tragedy because of the lack of an origin giving necessary details. How is that Bruce escaped so easily from Ross? Why is he a fugitive now if he had no problems going to the hospital to visit Betty and then, right in front of Gral. Ross he managed to escape? Honestly, that blurry flashback of an origin did nothing for me.

And what I considered specially mocking to the character were all those stupid jokes about purple pants and... God, the movie exposing Bruce's inability to have a normal intercourse... IN A COMEDIC TONE! The movie lost me right there. The stupid taxi sequence just made it worse.

Now, this is just me, but Bruce being able to control Hulk, with a smile while transforming, is just like Peter Parker having a 110% happy life wioth enough money for everything, Bruce Wayne feeling cool about being Batman without any problems about his dead parents or Superman constantly wanting to quit as Superman.

 

[CConn]

Eh, I'm okay with Bruce being able to change at will at times. I definitely see your point; their needs to be a Hulk vs. Bruce struggle.

But, at the same time, Batman isn't ALWAYS obsessed with his dead parents, and sometimes things go right for Peter Parker. Bruce vs. Hulk is the same thing. Bruce might be able to control it here or there, but as long as he ultimately reverts back to being at odds with his transformations, he's still interesting, IMO.

 

[El Payaso]

Eh, I'm okay with Bruce being able to change at will at times. I definitely see your point; their needs to be a Hulk vs. Bruce struggle.

But, at the same time, Batman isn't ALWAYS obsessed with his dead parents, and sometimes things go right for Peter Parker. Bruce vs. Hulk is the same thing. Bruce might be able to control it here or there, but as long as he ultimately reverts back to being at odds with his transformations, he's still interesting, IMO.

I prefer that not with Bruce completely controlling Hulk but Hulk echoing Banner's persona. Like Hulk loving Betty because Bruce does, or Hulk saving innocent people because that's what bruice would do.

 

[CConn]

Those seem like two different things to me.

But yeah, it is great when Hulk does something purely because it's what Banner would do, then gets fiercely angry when someone points it out. Things like that would be awesome to see in a movie.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

To me....the Ang Lee directed HULK is the better acted drama, while THE INCREDIBLE HULK is the more faithful, more fun comic adaptation.

^This

I also would say that Hulk should be a movie most people appreciate because what it does well it does very well. It just failed in some pretty major places, and unfortunately while it doesn't change the good parts it certainly hurts the film overall. They really needed something better at the end to tie the whole film together. The set up is great, very deep, very complex, but the payoff is very bland and uninspired. You simply cannot put all that work into polishing a script and then have some "meh" ending to bring it altogether.

 

[kedrell]

I'm hoping that in TA Whedon will finally break the cycle and let Hulk be a character. If so then it's quite likely that it'll be Hulk's best outing in live action to date.

 

[co2]

Y'know, this is actually a really good question.

I'm kind of in the middle on Ang Lee's Hulk. I never hated it, but it certainly isn't on the level of thr Batman, or even possibly X-Men or Spider-Man movies. The story was just a bit too convoluted and downright weird. It was like Lee was attempting to do a TDK-esque film; something that possibly works even better as a genre film than a superhero film, but just didn't have a scriptwriter quite talented enough to pull it off.

Outside of that, I liked mostly all of the other aspects of the film; the cinematography, art direction, score, even Lee's comic book panel editing trick worked great, IMO. And, most importantly he made it feel like its own, very legitimate film. Definitely a film that would be more suited for adults than children.

TIH however, is a simple, fun movie that really can't be called offensive to the character in any way. Edward Norton plays the role well - perhaps even better than Bana, and the script works like a Hulk fan's checklist; going down the list and making sure we got all of the intangible things we'd want in a Hulk movie.

That said, due to that simplicity, it lacks the gravitas and sense of style that Hulk had. TIH could never be mistaken for a groundbreaking or innovative film, it could never be mistaken for a piece of legitimate art that Hulk tried to be. And I think that hurts it to a certain degree. It's intangibles like that that differentiates The Dark Knights of the world from the Batman Forevers, or X-Men: First Classes from the Fantastic Fours.

All in all, I honestly don't know if I can even say. They're both mixed bags in my opinion.

That's about the most level headed opinion I have heard on the topic. I think overall, Hulk is the more interesting movie, just not as genuine a movie about the comic character.

 

[The Morningstar]

One would assume any Hulk fan's check list would have Hulk being portrayed as an actual character high up on it as well as both Banner and Hulk relating to/hating each other. IMO, both films failed to do that very important thing and I'd go so far as to say that's the single biggest obstacle to these movies being successful with the G/A so far. Other superheroes are still characters even when they put their tights on. But so far with Hulk(in live action) the moment Bruce changes then the character goes into limbo and all we have is an FX/action scene. And no body language BS will ever be able to adequately replace dialog from the Hulk(and 5-6 spoken words throughout the film just comes off as an insult to the character and not even close enough to really count).

Much as messing with the 616 origin irritated me, THIS is what really always got my goat.

Ang's movie came closest to Hulk actually being a personality himself and showing that resentment towards Banner. The "Puny human" scene in the mirror was great. There could have, and should have been more of that really.

 

[The Morningstar]

^This

I also would say that Hulk should be a movie most people appreciate because what it does well it does very well. It just failed in some pretty major places, and unfortunately while it doesn't change the good parts it certainly hurts the film overall. They really needed something better at the end to tie the whole film together. The set up is great, very deep, very complex, but the payoff is very bland and uninspired. You simply cannot put all that work into polishing a script and then have some "meh" ending to bring it altogether.

How is the ending meh and uninspired? It's very inspired. What would be uninspired is Hulk and the villain just beating the crap out of each other, like in TIH.

What happened at the end was a great way of showing that the Hulk's rage is what gives him that limitless power. Without resorting to a brawl. His dad is absorbing the gamma radiation/power out of him, but then Hulk totally loses his **** and his anger keeps fuelling that power, making it limitless. His dad keeps trying to take it and eventually it overloads him.

I thought it was a great ending. Some amazing visuals like when they are travelling through the lightning. And it was a clever and original way of showing how Hulk is powered by rage, as an actual emotion, instead of this elevated heartbeat crap.

 

[Roose Bolton]

How exactly was TIH more faithful to the comics anyway?
All I can think of was the inclusion of Emil Blonsky and Sam Sterns, but even then they were fairly altered. All in all TIH was more of an adaption of the 70s tv series than anything from the comics. Ang Lee's movie at least took a lot of elements and themes from Bill Mantalo, Peter David and Paul Jenkins long runs on the comic.

 

[The Morningstar]

Ang's Hulk sorta reminded me of the cartoon too. I always remember him fighting the army in the desert on that show. The movie was like that **** brought to life. It's still one of, it not the best action scene in a cbm imo. It could have done with a bit more really

 

[Longshot777]

Neither!!!


The Avengers Hulk coming this May will Smash Both of them!!


Eric Bana and Ed Norton will be wipe out of the Marvel Movie Continuity

 

[CConn]

...but TIH is in direct continuity with The Avengers.

 

[Longshot777]

True.


But TIH can be forgotten and you can watch The Avengers movie without watching TIH.

The changing of Ed Norton to Mark Ruffalo pretty much sealed the fate of TIH.

The audience can just watch Ironman, Thor, Captain America, and then the introduction of The Hulk in Avengers 2012 and the audience will not miss a beat.

 

[CConn]

I think you're kind of dumb.

 

[Longshot777]

LOL

Big Surprise An internet Tough guy!! LOL

If you see me in public, you wouldn't make moronic statements like that.


Just because you like TIH movie doesn't mean my opinions on it are dumb.

Worry about getting a real job and move out of your parents basement instead of trying to be tough on the internet. Loser!!! t:

 

[kedrell]

Ang's movie came closest to Hulk actually being a personality himself and showing that resentment towards Banner. The "Puny human" scene in the mirror was great. There could have, and should have been more of that really.

Well that's like saying a cup of water is closer in volume to the ocean than a drop of water is.

 

[Lord]

That's enough you too, there's no need to start a fight.

Answering what you said Longshot777, TIH is still canon until said otherwise, War Machine was recast for the Iron Man sequel and it's still canon, and i doubt that after the actors leave Marvel will reboot the Marvel Cinematic Universe, so it's probable that when they are done other actors will replace them and it will still be the same continuity.

 

[Longshot777]

I agree TIH is still canon to the "FILM" Universe.

But regular audience will NOT get lost in the Avengers 2012 if they did NOT see TIH.

The films of Ironman, Thor, and Captain America has so much of an impact that everyone has to watch them before they watch the Avengers film to truly experience the whole scope.

TIH, however does not. The movie is NOT BAD but it does not compare to the other 3.

Those 3 were ORIGIN STORIES. TIH is NOT. Unless you count the opening credits.

Hulk's Origin can simply be explain in one line in the Avengers film as a brilliant scientist who is an expert in Gamma Radiation who became the powerful Hulk.


I'm NOT SAYING IT'S NOT CANON.

I'm saying that general audience will not miss anything in Aveners if TIH was never made.

TIH is an AVERAGE Superhero Movie at best

 

[actionavenue]

I will go for The Incredible Hulk to block! Can't wait to see the Hulk treatment in the upcoming Avengers movie.

Read my zombie blog http://freakindeadjed.blogspot.com
Check out my artwork at http://zazzle.com Type in "actionave" into the search box.

 

[kedrell]

TIH is an AVERAGE Superhero Movie at best

Considering that the average superhero movie is still a bad movie then I'd say TIH is well above average. Is it the best? No, and while I'd say it's probably Marvel Studio's weakest film that to me still puts it well above average. To me it's on par with the good Raimi Spidey films or the good Singer/Vaughn X-men films. Had AngHulk not been the first film and had Universal released TIH in 2003 instead, they likely would have had a big hit franchise on their hands(of course then that would mean Hulk would be a long term hostage at an outside studio like Spidey & the X-Men are).