TMOS Set & Official Photo Thread - Discussion Welcome - Part 10

[Kal-El.9859]

u gotta understand the general public (my friends) is not hardcore superman fan. they can't see it = they can't see it. as simple as that. it wasn't catching their eyes until i brought it to their attention.
reaction: sorta ok / interesting. but they didn't ask further question about it.

So when they looked at this poster and saw a guy with a big red S on his chest who did they think it was?? Shazam??

 

[ModusPonens]

Just on the magnificent ending of the magnificent All-Star Superman, I would love if it ended like that... Except, Goyer already stole it for the (also magnifiecent) The Dark Knight Rises.

Think about it:


After a big battle Superman and Lois say goodbye and kiss on a grey city street.
So do Batman and Catwoman.

Superman flies into the sun, exploding his solar energy into it to save the world.
Batman flies the bomb out over the ocean, exploding with it to save the city.

Sometime later, a bitter-sweet Lois sits in front of a giant memorial statue of Superman.
Sometime later, a bitter-sweet Gordon sits in front of a giant memorial statue of Batman.

Cut to the heart of the sun: Our hero is revealed to be alive and well, having entered a new unknown phase in his life.
Cut to Florence: Our hero is revealed to be alive and well, having entered a new unknown phase in his life.

End on a character introduced in this story only, in a big long shot of... a coming successor.

Goyer also used the Jor-El monologue heard in the teaser, so it's safe to say he's a fan.

Goyer didn't write TDKR.

 

[Project862006]

yes he did goyer co wrote every nolan batman film

 

[BH/HHH]

I don't think he wrote the Dark Knight Rises but he was involved in the story process. I'm sure he probably wrote some things but the screen play was by Jonah Nolan

 

[ModusPonens]

yes he did goyer co wrote every nolan batman film

No, he didn't. He only wrote Batman Begins. TDK and TDKR were written by Jonathan Nolan and Christopher Nolan.

 

[titansupes]

No, he didn't. He only wrote Batman Begins. TDK and TDKR were written by Jonathan Nolan and Christopher Nolan.

Christ. Goyer wrote BB. He and Nolan did the story for TDK and TDKR then the two Nolans wrote them together. Goyer pitched the ending of TDKR to Nolan months after the TDK premiere, which is what Nolan excited to do a third final movie. And it remained unchanged all the way to the final film. They've told that story in interviews many times over the last couple of years.

 

[ModusPonens]

Christ. Goyer wrote BB. He and Nolan did the story for TDK and TDKR then the two Nolans wrote them together. Goyer pitched the ending of TDKR to Nolan months after the TDK premiere, which is what Nolan excited to do a third final movie. And it remained unchanged all the way to the final film. They've told that story in interviews many times over the last couple of years.

Really? Do you have a source for that?

 

[titansupes]

The deluxe TDKR issue of Empire Magazine, the complete screenplay book, other interviews.

From the mag: "...Suddenly something occurs. Not a beginning, or even a plot. Not the villain, or villains. But literally the final scene of the film, and of the trilogy. He [Goyer] describes the denouement he's just in one synaptic flash envisioned. Nolan smiles."

 

[ModusPonens]

The deluxe TDKR issue of Empire Magazine, the complete screenplay book, other interviews.

From the mag: "...Suddenly something occurs. Not a beginning, or even a plot. Not the villain, or villains. But literally the final scene of the film, and of the trilogy. He [Goyer] describes the denouement he's just in one synaptic flash envisioned. Nolan smiles."

Well, that's news to me. But I'm still not convinced he was responsible for every scene you mentioned; i.e. the Batman/Catwoman kiss, flying the bomb away, the Batman statue, the Florence scene, and Robin rising. Nolan himself admits in the quote that Goyer, in his 'synaptic flash,' doesn't conceive of the plot or the villains.

Hence, your claim that Goyer 'stole' all those specific scenes is still unsupported. It still seems to me that those scenes were written by the Nolan brothers, fleshed-out from Goyer's plot-less synaptic flash.

Your theory (indeed, both of our theories) is underdetermined, and we cannot know who is responsible for each scene.

 

[titansupes]

Well, that's news to me. But I'm still not convinced he was responsible for every scene you mentioned; i.e. the Batman/Catwoman kiss, flying the bomb away, the Batman statue, the Florence scene, and Robin rising. Nolan himself admits in the quote that Goyer, in his 'synaptic flash,' doesn't conceive of the plot or the villains.

Hence, your claim that Goyer 'stole' all those specific scenes is still unsupported. It still seems to me that those scenes were written by the Nolan brothers, fleshed-out from Goyer's plot-less synaptic flash.

Your theory (indeed, both of our theories) is underdetermined, and we cannot know who is responsible for each scene.

Again though, it's Goyer and Nolan that work out detailed treatments of the movie. It wasn't that one meeting and that's it. And they said the whole ending remained unchanged from pitch to screen. All those scenes I mentioned with such specificity, and the correct order, are too much to be a mere coincidence. Combine it with the use of the Jor-El monologue for the teaser, and the odds are very favourable.

For the record, I'm not using 'stole' in a derogatory sense. I completely LOVED the movie... But I also completely loved All-Star and am disappointed that ending is more or less off the table now, unless it is seriously tooled with. There are ways, but some of the airs been let out of the balloon.

 

[Project862006]

fanboys never want to give goyer credit people still believe nolan is responsible for man of steel

 

[ModusPonens]

fanboys never want to give goyer credit people still believe nolan is responsible for man of steel

I wasn't disrespecting Goyer; I was simply stating the facts. Goyer was not credited as a writer for TDK and TDKR.

 

[titansupes]

I wasn't disrespecting Goyer; I was simply stating the facts. Goyer was not credited as a writer for TDK and TDKR.

He is. Under 'Story'. Famously.

 

[ModusPonens]

He is. Under 'Story'. Famously.

...that's not a writing credit. It's a story credit.

 

[titansupes]

...that's not a writing credit. It's a story credit.

Ugghhhhh. Which is - obviously - quite a big part of the writing.

Jesus.

 

[ModusPonens]

Ugghhhhh. Which is - obviously - quite a big part of the writing.

Jesus.

Still not a writer. Still no writing credit. I never said it wasn't a big part of the writing. Sure, the story serves as the foundation for the writing, but it's not the writing itself.

Fact: Goyer was not credited as a writer in TDK and TDKR. Can we move on, please?

To quote you: "Ugghhhhh." "Jesus."

 

[Herolee10]

Why oh why can't Warner Bros. give us something new in order to prevent us from going off track in our thread discussions?lol

 

[ModusPonens]

Why oh why can't Warner Bros. give us something new in order to prevent us from going off track in our thread discussions?lol

I know, right? We're going insane!

 

[Brian Braddock]

Goyers a weird one. One the one hand, he wrote Blade and helped write Nolan's Batman yet on the other he wrote and directed Blade: Trinity.

Brilliance and awfulness in one mixture.

 

[titansupes]

Still not a writer. Still no writing credit. I never said it wasn't a big part of the writing. Sure, the story serves as the foundation for the writing, but it's not the writing itself.

Fact: Goyer was not credited as a writer in TDK and TDKR. Can we move on, please?

To quote you: "Ugghhhhh." "Jesus."

Regardless of the credits we got sidetracked on, the point of the conversation was this: I said Goyer came up with the ending. You said he didn't and to prove it. Then I did (at least put forward evidence that puts my argument firmly in favour).

So sure, let's move on.

MoS, huh?

Why oh why can't Warner Bros. give us something new in order to prevent us from going off track in our thread discussions?lol

Only potentially 6 weeks left until we get something new. 6 long, long, LONG weeks...t:

 

[Gianakin_]

Goyers a weird one.

Not weird at all: When he's on his own, he sucks. When there's someone to hold him on a leash, he's great.

 

[Herolee10]

Goyers a weird one. One the one hand, he wrote Blade and helped write Nolan's Batman yet on the other he wrote and directed Blade: Trinity.

Brilliance and awfulness in one mixture.

I think it just proves that Goyer has the magic spark when it comes to ideas but that he needs someone to manage over him so that he can formulate that spark properly.

 

[ModusPonens]

Regardless of the credits we got sidetracked on, the point of the conversation was this: I said Goyer came up with the ending. You said he didn't and to prove it. Then I did (at least put forward evidence that puts my argument firmly in favour).

So sure, let's move on.

Oh, brother. You can't expect me to move on after you've surreptitiously characterized our discussion in your favor!

From the start my claim was simple: "Goyer didn't write TDKR." You then seemingly agreed, and claimed that he was at least responsible for the ending. I asked for a source, and you provided a source that underdetermined your claim, and I don't agree that your evidence put the argument "firmly in your favor." Then, for some reason, we transgressed to quibbling about Goyer's credits for TDK and TDKR. We finally agreed (or so I hope) that Goyer was not credited as a writer.

But the bottom line is this: Goyer did what Goyer did. No amount of hair-splitting banter between us will ever affect what Goyer did, and I believe we both appreciate what he did, no matter the name we choose to call it by. 'Tom-ay-to' or 'Tom-ah-to,' it's still a tomato -- any of several plants belonging to the genus Lycopersicon, of the nightshade family, native to Mexico and Central and South America, especially the widely cultivated species L. lycopersicum, bearing a mildly acid, pulpy, usually red fruit eaten raw or cooked as a vegetable.

Okay. Let's move on, before I explode.

 

[titansupes]

Oh, brother. You can't expect me to move on after you've surreptitiously characterized our discussion in your favor!

I didn't expect you to.

However, though I would enjoy seeing you explode...

'Tom-ay-to' or 'Tom-ah-to,' it's still a tomato -- any of several plants belonging to the genus Lycopersicon, of the nightshade family, native to Mexico and Central and South America, especially the widely cultivated species L. lycopersicum, bearing a mildly acid, pulpy, usually red fruit eaten raw or cooked as a vegetable.

This is the part that won me over. t:

 

[Project862006]

Goyers a weird one. One the one hand, he wrote Blade and helped write Nolan's Batman yet on the other he wrote and directed Blade: Trinity.

Brilliance and awfulness in one mixture.

he is like akiva goldsman who wrote batman and robin and i am legend but also wrote a time to kill,a beautiful mind and Cinderella man