To Believe or Not To Believe? (SHOW RESPECT, OR RISK A BAN) - Part 2

[Shikamaru]

What's with all these middle terms popping up? Someone in here already claims to be an agnostic atheist...which makes no sense to me. You either believe, don't believe, or unsure what to believe (very boiled down but true). Believing in an afterlife is a theist...they just don't know which religion suits their beliefs best.

That misconception has already been explained.

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[chaseter]

That doesn't mean I have to agree. It's not a fact...it's an opinion or a stance. When dealing with religion or the belief that religion is unfounded...there are no facts. An agnostic atheist seems to believe in aspects of a religion but is too apprehensive to commit to that religion.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

It's not a misconception. There are varying levels to belief and non belief. There have been different classifications for levels of agnostics.

Agnostic theism is defined as believing in the existence of a god but not claiming to know for sure that this god definitely exists.

In contrast an Agnostic atheist does not believe in the existence of a god/creator. However, they still accept that they don't know for sure.

Some people argue than an atheist fundamentally does not believe in God and feels that they do know for sure.

Obviously classifications may vary based on the sources, but these have typically been the breakdown.

 

[Shikamaru]

It is a fact. I don't know how else you want it explained.

I can't say for certainty there is no God, as there's no way I could possess that knowledge, but I don't believe in a God due to a lack of evidence. I'm open to the evidence, but there haven't been any legitimate pieces of it offered yet. Thus I live my life as if there's no God.

In the same sense, I'm as agnostic towards leprechauns and unicorns. Doesn't mean I believe in them or that I think there's a 50/50 chance they exist.

What's so confusing about that?

 

[chaseter]

You are an atheist. You don't believe in God but would change your mind if evidence exists like a rational person. I just don't see the point in atheism because evidence against is non existent. No evidence is not the same as evidence to the contrary.

 

[Shikamaru]

^ Indeed, but the burden of proof always lies on the person/group making the claim. In this case, it lies on the religious. I don't have to "prove" God doesn't exist because I'm not the one making the claim he does; atheism is the default position.

 

[chaseter]

No, agnosticism is the default. You neither believe or disbelieve until evidence exists to validate a position. Evidence will never exist to disvalidate religion and only personal experiences will ever exist to to the believer because evidence will never exist to validate that religion.

 

[Apollo]

As for he afterlife question - Judging by the answers - it appears to be an even divide with some unsure.

 

[Human Torch]

No, agnosticism is the default. You neither believe or disbelieve until evidence exists to validate a position. Evidence will never exist to disvalidate religion and only personal experiences will ever exist to to the believer because evidence will never exist to validate that religion.

As in the last time you pointed this out,you are correct.

 

[Apollo]

I checked out A.D yesterday. Not entirely impressed. I liked the "villains" storylines the most. (Pilate & his wife,Caiaphas debating Joseph) The stuff with the disciples was fairly underwhelming. I guess they couldn't afford to put all 11 in,since we only got 4.(John,Peter and two "nameless" ones)

I think it was a mistake not using the same actors from "The Bible", since we never get to know this version of Jesus beyond the trial/crucifixion. I don't feel that we get the same emotional attachment to him.But the story was more or less sound,scripturaly.

I also saw a bit more of Killing Jesus (against my better judgement). I admit,I admire their guts in showing Jesus abuse at the hands of the Sanhedrin. (the PC police generally won't allow it) But, it had the most anticlimactic finish. After seeing the empty tomb,Jesus is not seen,but Peter catches a lot of fish,prompting his belief in the Resurrection.

I thought A.D was pretty well done, I mean it isn't a sequel to the bible miniseries which I first thought it was going to be, but I liked it for what it was. Killing Jesus was ok. I mean it's a different way to look at it which I found to be interesting. But there was a lot I didn't care for. So far I liked A.D more.

 

[Shikamaru]

Except that it isn't the default. For one, agnosticism isn't a belief. It's "the view that the truth values of certain claims – especially metaphysical and religious claims such as whether or not God, the divine or the supernatural exist – are unknown and perhaps unknowable."

Your whole assumption would be true if agnosticism promised a 50/50 chance of God being true, but it doesn't. I could claim there's an invisible and intangible unicorn which visits me only whenever no one else is around can sense cameras. You can't ever disprove what I just said, but you can still conclude it's an extremely unlikely situation as opposed to a 50/50 one. As a result, you disbelieve me beyond all reasonable doubt.

 

[Human Torch]

A.D. also didn't shy away from the Sanhedrin's involvement in Christ's death. It's pretty refreshing that the PC police aren't handcuffing these shows/movie. Mel Gibson may have kept his sanity had they afforded him the same courtesy.

 

[Human Torch]

The way I see it there is no need for the different semantics.

Agnosticism: Allows for the possibility that a God exists, but doesn't ascribe to any particular deity.

Atheism: Asserts that God doesn't exist on the basis of certain evidence.

Christianity: Asserts that God exists based on certain evidence/Biblical/Spiritual

Agnosticism is at least understandable,since Atheism can never completely disprove the existence of God and Christianity will (apparently) never provide the "iron clad" evidence of God's existence to skeptics. Agnosticism basically says "I can't prove or disprove God. He may exist,He may not."

 

[Shikamaru]

Atheism: Asserts that God doesn't exist on the basis of certain evidence

It's actually "asserts that God doesn't exist on the basis of a lack of evidence." "Certain evidence" implies the exact opposite.

I think that's mainly what causes the confusion.

 

[Apollo]

A.D. also didn't shy away from the Sanhedrin's involvement in Christ's death. It's pretty refreshing that the PC police aren't handcuffing these shows/movie. Mel Gibson may have kept his sanity had they afforded him the same courtesy.

Maybe all the high ratings scared them away?

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

It's actually "asserts that God doesn't exist on the basis of a lack of evidence." "Certain evidence" implies the exact opposite.

I think that's mainly what causes the confusion.

I want to ask you something, do you think that the rules made by organized religion come across as arbitrary and lacking depth/integrity?

I have to say that while I do believe in god, there are several things about my religion that I myself do not agree with but most of this comes from the way I see it practiced among others however simultaneously, I myself don't fully understand all the things about it either, and I may never get all the answers. But I feel like those who already misunderstand and have a misconception will continue to think that way even if, unknowingly, it's wrong

I like being rational about it though, it's only fair if you hear both and all sides and opinions of this molding

 

[ShadowBoxer]

In my opinon it's either you believe in God and the afterlife or you don't. There isn't really a middle ground. That's like people who claim to be religious only when it's convient to them.

 

[Greens]

No, agnosticism is the default. You neither believe or disbelieve until evidence exists to validate a position. Evidence will never exist to disvalidate religion and only personal experiences will ever exist to to the believer because evidence will never exist to validate that religion.

Nope. There's not a perfect middle ground where everybody starts. I can list a million things to which your response would be "No, those don't exist" without evidence to back up your claim.

As has been pointed out before, agnosticism is a position of knowledge. Atheism is not. They are not interchangeable.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I know it's a few people here that identify as being a Christian but I have a few questions, and honestly it might get personal so you defintely don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable doing so. But for those that do consider themselves christians, how did you become one? Did you have an encounter with christ for yourself? Did you just grow up in a Christian home or did you become a Christian on your own? I mentioned that I experienced and heard about things that I feel are acts of God. Not I think there may have been some scientific logic behind what I experienced and heard about that falls under the supernatural, but I honestly believe that God orchestrate's those things and it's not science alone. Have any of you experienced anything like that? How to you feel on that subject? Lastly, have you ever had any hostile encounters with people once they found out your religious beliefs?

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I want to ask you something, do you think that the rules made by organized religion come across as arbitrary and lacking depth/integrity?

I have to say that while I do believe in god, there are several things about my religion that I myself do not agree with but most of this comes from the way I see it practiced among others however simultaneously, I myself don't fully understand all the things about it either, and I may never get all the answers. But I feel like those who already misunderstand and have a misconception will continue to think that way even if, unknowingly, it's wrong

I like being rational about it though, it's only fair if you hear both and all sides and opinions of this molding

As a Christian it's a common misconception that we all live boring miserable lives because we follow a set of rules. Honestly I found the commandments and things that God asks of us is not unreasonable at all and actually has sound reasoning behind it. Lying, cheating, stealing, killing, commiting adultery, etc are wrong for various reasons. Christians can go out and have a good time like anyone else with limits of course. For example, I am in my late 20's now but when I was in college people acted I couldn't go out to nightclubs with them. There isn't anything wrong with that. It's just that I am not going to go there and get drunk on purpose or try to sleep with any girl I see. Or doing anything else that I know isn't right. Nightclubs and bars were never my scene, but I definitely don't live a boring/ miserable life because of my beliefs. It's quite the opposite!

 

[Greens]

Lying, cheating, stealing, killing, commiting adultery, etc are wrong for various reasons.

Most reasonable people avoid these things, though. God or no God. So what's new?

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Most reasonable people avoid these things, though. God or no God. So what's new?

In addition I aldo think it's reasonable to wait until marriage before having sex. Of course non religious people think otherwise. And think it's something that is unreasonable or lame.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

As a Christian it's a common misconception that we all live boring miserable lives because we follow a set of rules. Honestly I found the commandments and things that God asks of us is not unreasonable at all and actually has sound reasoning behind it. Lying, cheating, stealing, killing, commiting adultery, etc are wrong for various reasons. Christians can go out and have a good time like anyone else with limits of course. For example, I am in my late 20's now but when I was in college people acted I couldn't go out to nightclubs with them. There isn't anything wrong with that. It's just that I am not going to go there and get drunk on purpose or try to sleep with any girl I see. Or doing anything else that I know isn't right. Nightclubs and bars were never my scene, but I definitely don't live a boring/ miserable life because of my beliefs. It's quite the opposite!

christians also believe that everyone is born a sinner yeah?

it is the complete opposite in islam.

Most reasonable people avoid these things, though. God or no God. So what's new?

you definitely should not need god or spirituality in your life to know morality like that (killing/stealing/etc. being wrong)

 

[Shikamaru]

I want to ask you something, do you think that the rules made by organized religion come across as arbitrary and lacking depth/integrity?

I have to say that while I do believe in god, there are several things about my religion that I myself do not agree with but most of this comes from the way I see it practiced among others however simultaneously, I myself don't fully understand all the things about it either, and I may never get all the answers. But I feel like those who already misunderstand and have a misconception will continue to think that way even if, unknowingly, it's wrong

I like being rational about it though, it's only fair if you hear both and all sides and opinions of this molding

I would argue that yes, they do. In the case of the Abrahamic faiths in particular, I would go a step further and say they're totalitarian systems.

I also disagree that criticisms towards religion can just be shrugged off to misconceptions. I guess in some cases they can, but not in a lot.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I would argue that yes, they do. In the case of the Abrahamic faiths in particular, I would go a step further and say they're totalitarian systems.

I also disagree that criticisms towards religion can just be shrugged off to misconceptions. I guess in some cases they can, but not in a lot.

I think the criticisms stem from a whole pool of misconceptions. And I think it is important to separate how things are supposed to be practiced and how they are. muslims themselves don't all agree and not all muslim countries are as barbaric and extreme as places like saudi arabia.