To Believe or Not To Believe? (SHOW RESPECT, OR RISK A BAN) - Part 2

[ShadowBoxer]

That's great. My Church does study groups every now and then. My uncle taught a couple in the past.

Also every year I get a magazine in the mail called The Great Courses. They are university quality lectures that are put on DVD so that you can watch them at home. They have dozens of DVD lectures on Philosophy, religion, Christianity, Jesus, the gospels and Church history. I haven't bought any yet. But I am thinking of buying one that is on sale.

They are expensive though if you don't buy the ones that are sale

This one is about History of Christian Theology and is over a 1,000 minutes long.

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/history-of-christian-theology.html

Good stuff! Will definitely look into that as well!

 

[Human Torch]

Is there another thread to talk about A.D? It seems strange to keep bringing it up in here.

Anyway,mixed feelings about this past episode. It feels like they dragged out this issue with Boaz forever,but rushed through Stephen's story. It felt off to me how Stephen was depicted as something of a hot head. In the bible he didn't run down to the Sanhedrin to confront them. He was lied about and falsely accused. Paul's tale is coming up. I liked the actor playing him. (the little we saw of him)

I also felt it was a bit off that Peter gets arrested, then the rest of the Disciples come to town and get arrested too. In the Bible they all got arrested for teaching, not the strange incident between Peter & Caiaphas.

Another nit pick I have is that biblicaly, Peter had a wife. He wasn't a single dad. (I don't remember the verse off hand) Paul mentions how Peter brings his wife along during missionary journeys.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Is there another thread to talk about A.D? It seems strange to keep bringing it up in here.

Anyway,mixed feelings about this past episode. It feels like they dragged out this issue with Boaz forever,but rushed through Stephen's story. It felt off to me how Stephen was depicted as something of a hot head. In the bible he didn't run down to the Sanhedrin to confront them. He was lied about and falsely accused. Paul's tale is coming up. I liked the actor playing him. (the little we saw of him)

I also felt it was a bit off that Peter gets arrested, then the rest of the Disciples come to town and get arrested too. In the Bible they all got arrested for teaching, not the strange incident between Peter & Caiaphas.

Another nit pick I have is that biblicaly, Peter had a wife. He wasn't a single dad. (I don't remember the verse off hand) Paul mentions how Peter brings his wife along during missionary journeys.

Yea I saw the recent episode. I get what you were saying about the nitpicks like Peter. But overall I think it's a decent show. As for a thread for the show here, I suppose you could create on in the form for various TV shows. Just be careful because it lead to arugememts about religion.

 

[Tanin]

As for the title of the thread, thanks to Deuteronomy 23:2 I was never even given the chance to decide for myself.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Yes, I believe Jesus was divine and all the miraculous things it was said that he did happened like walking on water, turning water into wine, healing many people, and rising the dead. Jesus was no ordinary human, he was the son of God or God himself in human form. So it wouldn't be impossible for him to do the things described. I couldn't even call myself a Christian if I didn't believe that Jesus rose from the dead. That's a big part of our faith. The only people that think it's all smoke and mirrors are the non religious.

How come after the period of bible people stopped having these supernatural abilities and God's apparent presence disappeared? Also the bible says there were people who lived to be a 1000 years old. Do you believe these ages were legit?

 

[Apollo]

Good stuff! Will definitely look into that as well!

I am sure there are other types of lectures somewhere that aren't so expensive. Youtube of course is always an option to watch some university quality lectures on Christian theology and Philosophy, which are free. t:

 

[Apollo]

Is there another thread to talk about A.D? It seems strange to keep bringing it up in here.

Anyway,mixed feelings about this past episode. It feels like they dragged out this issue with Boaz forever,but rushed through Stephen's story. It felt off to me how Stephen was depicted as something of a hot head. In the bible he didn't run down to the Sanhedrin to confront them. He was lied about and falsely accused. Paul's tale is coming up. I liked the actor playing him. (the little we saw of him)

I also felt it was a bit off that Peter gets arrested, then the rest of the Disciples come to town and get arrested too. In the Bible they all got arrested for teaching, not the strange incident between Peter & Caiaphas.

Another nit pick I have is that biblicaly, Peter had a wife. He wasn't a single dad. (I don't remember the verse off hand) Paul mentions how Peter brings his wife along during missionary journeys.

Generally speaking, I think it is well done as of quality and acting. The story is good too, but like you said they did change things around, as well as excluding some things that did put me off a bit.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

How come after the period of bible people stopped having these supernatural abilities and God's apparent presence disappeared? Also the bible says there were people who lived to be a 1000 years old. Do you believe these ages were legit?

What supernatural abilities? If your asking why we can't do the things Jesus did such as miraculous healings, walking on water, Turning water into wine, rising from the dead etc, it's because he was Jesus the son God/ God himself in human form. Those were displays of his power, to show people who he was. It wouldn't make sense to have give us the same power. Many Christian will tell you that God has not disappeared and feel his presence every day in their lives. There are any huge displays power like the booming voice from the sky or flooding the earth, or parting the sea. But people who genuinely know God and spend time with him in prayer or by reading the word feel him. Many would say God intervened in situations were the natural world told them there was no hope or it was impossible.

Such as people getting miraculously healed from rare cancers, surviving near death encounters, helping people break out of addictions, healing the lost and broken hearted, restoring marriages, opening doors that were other wise closed in the natural world ( job opportunities etc). Sure non believers will look at these things as random occurrences that have some logical explanation, which may or may not be true or blind luck. But for those that are Christian know that it isn't excatly the same for us. We believe that God it is the presence of God at work in our lives. An encounter with God is unexplainable and often makes no sense to the natural mind. To answer you last question, yea I believed people lived a long time during the times of the bible.

 

[Greens]

There are any huge displays power like the booming voice from the sky or flooding the earth, or parting the sea.

Why not?

Such as people getting miraculously healed from rare cancers, surviving near death encounters, helping people break out of addictions, healing the lost and broken hearted, restoring marriages, opening doors that were other wise closed in the natural world ( job opportunities etc).

At the same time, people die of cancer, don't survive certain situations, die from their addiction and end up broken and alone forever. Does God only account for the positive outcomes? Could it be possible that there is a huge number of variables, and some people luck out?

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Here is my personal story of my recent relationship with God and Jesus. I have been sober since 7/27/14 and the reason for that being that God spoke to me in a dream and told me that if I continued on the path I was going down with booze and drugs something horrible would happen and I would end up in prison. It was a very powerful dream and it still affects me today. I don't fear death in the normal sense other than the natural fear all humans inherently have, but having to possibly spend the rest of my life in prison scares the crap out of me. I have been in and out of AA since I was 16 and knew I needed to get back into the program if that was going to work. The 12 steps rely on having a relationship with a higher power and I choose to call mine God and Jesus Christ. A lot of people have the misconception of AA that it forces Christianity down peoples throats but that is not the case. Yes Bill W and the first AA's were Christians themselves but the Big Book was actually written by using things from a wide variety of sources and religions. There is an entire chapter dedicated to the agnostic and atheist. These past 9+ moths have been great and God has truly removed my obsession with booze. Before my dream if I thought about drinking I would not stop thinking about that until I got a drink. Now that never even crosses my mind. I try to remember to say my prayers and ask for guidance from God and I also would like to stat meditating more often but I truly feel the presence of God and his power all around me every day.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Here is an interactive evolution lab from Nova that is really cool

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/labs/lab/evolution/

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Here is my personal story of my recent relationship with God and Jesus. I have been sober since 7/27/14 and the reason for that being that God spoke to me in a dream and told me that if I continued on the path I was going down with booze and drugs something horrible would happen and I would end up in prison. It was a very powerful dream and it still affects me today. I don't fear death in the normal sense other than the natural fear all humans inherently have, but having to possibly spend the rest of my life in prison scares the crap out of me. I have been in and out of AA since I was 16 and knew I needed to get back into the program if that was going to work. The 12 steps rely on having a relationship with a higher power and I choose to call mine God and Jesus Christ. A lot of people have the misconception of AA that it forces Christianity down peoples throats but that is not the case. Yes Bill W and the first AA's were Christians themselves but the Big Book was actually written by using things from a wide variety of sources and religions. There is an entire chapter dedicated to the agnostic and atheist. These past 9+ moths have been great and God has truly removed my obsession with booze. Before my dream if I thought about drinking I would not stop thinking about that until I got a drink. Now that never even crosses my mind. I try to remember to say my prayers and ask for guidance from God and I also would like to stat meditating more often but I truly feel the presence of God and his power all around me every day.

Didn't you say you have been treated for schizophrenia/mental disorders? Perhaps that could have had something to do with your dream and perception of it.

 

[Tech]

Here is my personal story of my recent relationship with God and Jesus. I have been sober since 7/27/14 and the reason for that being that God spoke to me in a dream and told me that if I continued on the path I was going down with booze and drugs something horrible would happen and I would end up in prison. It was a very powerful dream and it still affects me today. I don't fear death in the normal sense other than the natural fear all humans inherently have, but having to possibly spend the rest of my life in prison scares the crap out of me. I have been in and out of AA since I was 16 and knew I needed to get back into the program if that was going to work. The 12 steps rely on having a relationship with a higher power and I choose to call mine God and Jesus Christ. A lot of people have the misconception of AA that it forces Christianity down peoples throats but that is not the case. Yes Bill W and the first AA's were Christians themselves but the Big Book was actually written by using things from a wide variety of sources and religions. There is an entire chapter dedicated to the agnostic and atheist. These past 9+ moths have been great and God has truly removed my obsession with booze. Before my dream if I thought about drinking I would not stop thinking about that until I got a drink. Now that never even crosses my mind. I try to remember to say my prayers and ask for guidance from God and I also would like to stat meditating more often but I truly feel the presence of God and his power all around me every day.

Thank you for your testimony

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Why not?



At the same time, people die of cancer, don't survive certain situations, die from their addiction and end up broken and alone forever. Does God only account for the positive outcomes? Could it be possible that there is a huge number of variables, and some people luck out?

I don't have a definitive answer as to why God doesn't do the huge displays of power like he once did, since only he could answer that question. But I have personal opinions on why he doesn't. Faith is big with God. It takes a lot of faith to believe in him when non believers say you should put more faith in scientist, doctors etc. It wouldn't take faith to believe in God if he did the big obvious displays of power. Most would just feel obligated to worship God instead of genuinely wanting to and loving him. Like I said, God isn't gonna force himself on anyone. Also, I think there would still be non believers who would still think it's all nature and science if there were big displays in power anyway. but that's just my personal opinion on that subject.

Even during the worst of outcomes God can do mircalous things for those that have faith and trust in him. If your skeptical of God and don't even believe he exists, why would you get offended if he does heal, break addictions, etc on those that have shown that they have a strong faith in him? It isn't because he doesn't care about non believers or unable. It's simply an issue of faith. And even if the worst happens to a believer, God can still use that situation to bring peace to the people. I can't really explain it to non believers because most just believe it's all luck or whatever. Once you encounter God and be in relationship life's different. You don't look at the world the same as non believers and situations can play out very different from a believer and a non believer.

 

[Shikamaru]

At the same time, people die of cancer, don't survive certain situations, die from their addiction and end up broken and alone forever. Does God only account for the positive outcomes? Could it be possible that there is a huge number of variables, and some people luck out?

This is the point I kept making several pages ago. For every person that was supposedly miraculously saved by God's grace, there were many others that weren't.

I brought up the cancer and Holocaust analogies as an example. How a cancer survival rate being 5% (meaning 1/20 people live) would kill 19/20 despite most of them would presumably pray, and how the survivors of the Holocaust were saved by God's grace despite two thirds of Jews being wiped off the map.

The empirical "miracle case" experience becomes less and less miraculous the more you analyze the bigger picture.

 

[Venomfan]

How come after the period of bible people stopped having these supernatural abilities and God's apparent presence disappeared? Also the bible says there were people who lived to be a 1000 years old. Do you believe these ages were legit?

to be fair, the Bible stories, just between Moses and Jesus take place roughly 1500 years apart. It's not like they all are supposed to have happened within a week or something. Even Jesus' story doesn't have as many miracles as you'd think when you spread it out over his three year ministry. I reckon if you went by the Catholic churches records of miracles and saints and what not, there would probably be a higher amount of miracles since the Bible per year ratio than the Bible times itself. Not that this means any of them actually happened, I just find we often don't read the bible in the context of the time-span it covers and it makes it seem like God sure was chatty back then but he isn't now when really, he didn't talk that much then either

 

[KevanG]

He did tend to annihilate cities and kill off most of the planet when he got mad enough though.

I don't have a definitive answer as to why God doesn't do the huge displays of power like he once did, since only he could answer that question. But I have personal opinions on why he doesn't. Faith is big with God. It takes a lot of faith to believe in him when non believers say you should put more faith in scientist, doctors etc. It wouldn't take faith to believe in God if he did the big obvious displays of power. Most would just feel obligated to worship God instead of genuinely wanting to and loving him. Like I said, God isn't gonna force himself on anyone. Also, I think there would still be non believers who would still think it's all nature and science if there were big displays in power anyway. but that's just my personal opinion on that subject.

Even during the worst of outcomes God can do mircalous things for those that have faith and trust in him. If your skeptical of God and don't even believe he exists, why would you get offended if he does heal, break addictions, etc on those that have shown that they have a strong faith in him? It isn't because he doesn't care about non believers or unable. It's simply an issue of faith. And even if the worst happens to a believer, God can still use that situation to bring peace to the people. I can't really explain it to non believers because most just believe it's all luck or whatever. Once you encounter God and be in relationship life's different. You don't look at the world the same as non believers and situations can play out very different from a believer and a non believer.

The fact that peoples own strength of will, ability to survive and mental strength are to be ignored then? Everything has to be attributed to god because we can't do it on our own?

You can have faith in yourself without needing to believe in a higher power and it's been proven positive thinking does have beneficial effects. Attributing everything to some unknown higher power just seems to be more of a crutch saying it's a safety net rather than allowing people to take measure of themselves.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Well you all entitled to your opinions. But like I said many times before non religious will never understand what it's like to be a Christian and what we experience. Non religious will just look at life in the natural. People who identify as Christian and have a real relationship with Christ see and experience the world in a vary different way, beyond just the natural. It's not we simply have faith and nothing else. Naturally we have to put in some work too, but God can give us that extra edge to get the win in any situation. Say and believe what you want, but the people I know who's life been changed by saying yes is very real to me. Because often times they situations were deemed hopeless by the so called logical people in their lives. Yet here they are helping other people, serving God, and living lives that many people dream about. That's why I believe and will continue to believe in God.

 

[Apollo]

Yea I saw the recent episode. I get what you were saying about the nitpicks like Peter. But overall I think it's a decent show. As for a thread for the show here, I suppose you could create on in the form for various TV shows. Just be careful because it lead to arguments about religion.

Next episode is on tonight! I almost forgot about it, then I read your post. t:

I guess we can make a thread on A.D the Bible Continues. But I mean it is already about half way through the series.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Next episode is on tonight! I almost forgot about it, then I read your post. t:

I guess we can make a thread on A.D the Bible Continues. But I mean it is already about half way through the series.

Then yea we could probably just discuss it in this tread instead of creating a new one.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Speaking of shows I just finished up the Daredevil Netflix series and really dug how they handled Matt's religious views ( catholic). It was especially handled well during the later episodes when he was struggling with the idea of having to kill Wilson.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Then yea we could probably just discuss it in this tread instead of creating a new one.

Eh you guys should just make a separate thread.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Didn't you say you have been treated for schizophrenia/mental disorders? Perhaps that could have had something to do with your dream and perception of it.

I am schizophrenic and bi-polar but I don't believe that had anything to do with my dream. I take my meds every day and if I don't after awhile I hear voices and can't sleep. During one of my episodes when I wasn't taking meds Jesus appeared to me and told me everything would be ok. I understand the logical explanations for these phenomenons but I choose to believe that it is my higher power working on my behalf. Who is to say that the people the suffer from "mental illness" aren't the ways that God tries to communicate with these days?

 

[Shikamaru]

Well you all entitled to your opinions. But like I said many times before non religious will never understand what it's like to be a Christian and what we experience.

That's not true.

I was born and raised in a Christian family. I was a Christian up until I was 16 years old, went to a catholic school throughout most of my childhood, prayed almost every night and even attended church relatively often. Heck, I used to get in debates with non-believers all the time and would often use the same arguments you're using. I used to be in the exact same shoes as you so I totally understand where you're coming from (granted I never viewed homophobia as a sin and stuff like that, but still).

Then around the age of 15, I began what I now call my "one-year journey to atheism". My interest in religious beliefs was at an all-time high and I was interested to learn more about my belief (as well as other religious beliefs). Almost every day I would dedicate a few minutes to a few hours researching religion. I looked into everything - its history, what other denominations believed, arguments from the religious, arguments from seculars, etc. Turns out the more I looked into it, the more skeptic I became of it. I then moved to deism and other non-religious spiritual beliefs before finally arriving to atheism shortly after.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Well I can't speak on your situation because I don't know all the details as that's your personal experience. But for me, it was a genuine encounter with God that changed my life forever. I grew up in a Christian house hold as well (baptist) . And yes, I thought just going church, reading the bible every blue moon, and ocassionally praying made me a Christian. What I found out is that I was simply practicing religion. I wasn't really taking in what was being preached, and didn't really know Christ. I acknowledged he existed and believed in what the bible taught, but I wasn't living my life accordingly.

Then I hit rock bottom and during depression and thoughts of suicide that's when things changed. I just remembered the time I nearly drowned at a water park as a kid and seeing that white light with a figured that looked like Jesus standing with his arms open. Then the other numerous times I should have died but didn't leading up to that point. Then I felt this presence unlike anything I felt before. This voice in the back of my mind that was saying I love you and I have a plan for you. And that's how I knew God was very real. And no, I do not have a mental issue nor was I just was imagining things.

Also during my time not really believing in God. I did research into all the scientific theories and while I accepted some elements of them. It just didn't make sense to me that all this just happened by random chance. When I look at all the people, wildlife, planets, landscapes, I see more than just science, but the work of a higher being. And yes, I was aware of the bad things that happen to people as well. Such as starving kids in Africa and why X people died and some didn't. I chalked those things up to us living in an imperfect world, which God didn't intended for us, but since humans fell from grace, it's the consequence we live with. However, I do believe he can change things.

I also became skeptical of "logical" people who are quick to tell people there is no hope in certain situations. For example, a high school teacher who had various college degrees, told me I wasn't smart enough for college and wouldn't amount to anything. Today, I am a college graduate, who's traveled to places I never thought I would, and work at a known broadcast network, and have had other opportunities people wouldn't have gotten. Not because I am that good, it's just I had faith that God would see me through. I also use my experiences to help others who face similar issues.