To Believe or Not To Believe? (SHOW RESPECT, OR RISK A BAN) - Part 2

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Human Torch are you aware of the definition of theory in a scientific context?

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Anyway, I am considering taking a bible study and methods course at a local university. Any religious folks here taken a religious course before?

 

[moviedoors]

Human Torch are you aware of the definition of theory in a scientific context?

Anyone whose been reading this thread for any length of time should have it down by now.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

It's fine if a Christian doesn't take all the events in Genesis literally. But if your a "Christian" that believes God had no influence on the creation of humans/ the universe what so ever and that it was solely Big Bang/ Evolution then yea, you probably shouldn't call yourself a Christian. For example, I am a Christian and firmly stand by what I believe. BUT I do accept the scientific theories out there ( Big Bang/ Evolution) however, I believe that God had a hand in those events and it wasn't just random chance they happened. Since I believe in God and believe he is a powerful being capable of doing anything, even things that are impossible to us. I don't rule out the possibility that scientist could be mistaken and things could have played out differently.

Second, as I told Mrs.Kent. I was speaking in general terms. Like if one day someone who was religious presented their view to intellectuals with real evidence ( not just feelings) that they could study, some should still reject and ignore it due to their own bias. That's all I meant by that. Whether or not someone religious could come up with physical evidence is currently unknown. Also I am not mad that people don't share my opinions. I really don't care. Everyone is entitled to what they believe or don't believe. Others opinions/ beliefs don't have any bearing on my own.

Why did you edit that other part out? You know it sounded out there to basically say your belief is so strong you wouldn't change based on any evidence essentially.

 

[Apollo]

Anyway, I am considering taking a bible study and methods course at a local university. Any religious folks here taken a religious course before?

I took a few at a university. I had a World Religion class, another class called Race,Poverty and Religion (religion department), and a class on the Dead Sea Scrolls. I was going to take a class on the Bible but I couldn't fit it in so I took the Dead Sea Scroll one instead. I also took a couple archaeology classes that delt with religious artifacts, culture & history. And I took a couple philosophy classes that taught us religious and christian philosophy. Interesting stuff.

 

[KevanG]

And that simply isn't true. As I have shown a few times already in this thread alone. The problem is skeptics summarily dismiss anything that doesn't jibe with the atheistic "default mode" they have built around "science".

''Science". Very subtle. You seem to have a distain for anything that might contradict what you're saying despite not offering anything in return. What exactly is the ''default mode'' put in this thread? That we ask for some sort of backing to what you say or something beyond just "I believe it so it must be true''.

Look at it from our point of view, many of us don't follow any organized religion. We use the information brought to us by whatever means we have (tv, internet, ect.) and we put together that info with what we already know from other sources to make connections. Now there's no backing for many of us that say ''It's Gods work" so we base it on the world being made by time and forces like gravity and that is confirmed by what we know with various sciences, like physics.

I always question why there is such resistance to teaching both sides of the theory of creation in schools. Why can't we present both arguments and let the students decide for themselves? If it's such a cut and dried case for evolution, why should atheists fear having both sides theories clearly represented?

When you say things like 'teach religion in schools' you automatically assume everyone would want just one religion taught and that it would be your version. What version of creationism should we teach? The Hindu version with Vishnu and Brahma? The Buddhist version where the world came into existence by nature and that nature is not an intelligent force? Or how about the Native American creation stories? There's a large amount of religions out there and a huge amount of followers for all of them. Just stating you want a certain point of view taught to everyone, no matter their background doesn't really go ever well these days.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I took a few at a university. I had a World Religion class, another class called Race,Poverty and Religion (religion department), and a class on the Dead Sea Scrolls. I was going to take a class on the Bible but I couldn't fit it in so I took the Dead Sea Scroll one instead. I also took a couple archaeology classes that delt with religious artifacts, culture & history. And I took a couple philosophy classes that taught us religious and christian philosophy. Interesting stuff.

Yea I always find those subjects to be interesting. I recently sat in on a philosophy class that talked about religion and this promoted my interest to take a course.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Shadow: you made a remark about evidence not changing your mind because of your strength in belief being so strong. Can you elaborate the extent of that view?

 

[ShadowBoxer]

The reason I confident in my beliefs is because science will never be able to disprove the existence of God. I don't care how smart you are, or how many scientific theories you put out there, it wouldn't be enough to discredit God in my eyes. The kind of evidence I would need to stop believing in God/ abandon my faith is something scientist aren't capable of providing. The only way I would stop believing is if we somehow built a machine that allowed us to time travel back to the time Jesus was around. And come back with documents/ notes, physical evidence or preferably video footage ( I know weird request) that undisputedly says Jesus never existed or he wasn't divine in any way and none of the things decscribed in the bible are true. Or least brings back evidence of no higher being period. Then I would change my belief. But I don't see anything like that happening in my lifetime, so I am good with what I believe.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

The reason I confident in my beliefs is because science will never be able to disprove the existence of God. I don't care how smart you are, or how many scientific theories you put out there, it wouldn't be enough to discredit God in my eyes. The kind of evidence I would need to stop believing in God/ abandon my faith is something scientist aren't capable of providing. The only way I would stop believing is if we somehow built a machine that allowed us to time travel back to the time Jesus was around. And come back with documents/ notes, physical evidence or preferably video footage ( I know weird request) that undisputedly says Jesus never existed or he wasn't divine in any way and none of the things decscribed in the bible are true. Or least brings back evidence of no higher being period. Then I would change my belief. But I don't see anything like that happening in my lifetime, so I am good with what I believe.

I think many who doubt the bible would agree in the existence of Jesus as quite possible. The added supernatural elements? Not so much.

 

[MrsKent26]

And that simply isn't true. As I have shown a few times already in this thread alone. The problem is skeptics summarily dismiss anything that doesn't jibe with the atheistic "default mode" they have built around "science".

What does this even mean? I'm not even trying to be cheeky. I honestly don't know.

 

[Spock]

Was Jesus the first technical Superhero before Superman was created?

 

[KevanG]

Spock, just FYI. The mods have had a lot of issues with religious threads and don't hesitate to ban people trying to mess around here. You just showed up so I thought you should be warned. Any other thread is pretty much open game but this one is 'usually' kept civil.

 

[Spock]

You misunderstand. I'm asking in terms of a written historical sense. Jesus had special powers long before we ever got into comic book superheroes.

 

[Spock]

Being the Son of God, Jesus had super powers. He once changed water into wine in a wedding feast, walked on water, multiplied fish and bread by thousands, raised Lazarus from the dead and healed a lot of ailing people.

 

[KevanG]

There have been quite a few people attributed to have powers over the years. Look at any legend or mythology, most were descended from gods and the like. Hercules, Perseus, ect. There's also been various holy people attributed with abilities, like Saint Joseph of Copertino were said to be able to fly or at least hover/bounce for great heights.

 

[Shikamaru]

Divine or not, Jesus was ahead of his time in many ways (assuming he was real).

 

[KevanG]

I have no doubt someone like Jesus was around at that time and likely had some of the ideas and preachings in the book. Do I believe he was the son of god, had amazing powers and was all perfect like the bible says? Not at all.

 

[Apollo]

Yea I always find those subjects to be interesting. I recently sat in on a philosophy class that talked about religion and this promoted my interest to take a course.

I really liked my philosophy professor. Very interesting class.

 

[MrsKent26]

I have no doubt someone like Jesus was around at that time and likely had some of the ideas and preachings in the book. Do I believe he was the son of god, had amazing powers and was all perfect like the bible says? Not at all.

Ditto. I believe he was a good man that the masses made into a religion.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I really liked my philosophy professor. Very interesting class.

Yea the philosophy class I sat in on was pretty interesting and the professor kept things lively and fun. My church also has a bible college that teaches various subjects such as bible study methods, doctrines, studies on the old testament and the new, and other things such as moving in the spirit . Most people I know that took those courses have nothing but good experiences. So I am definitely looking into taking either that philosophy course at a local university, or a course at my churches bible college.

 

[Apollo]

Yea the philosophy class I sat in on was pretty interesting and the professor kept things lively and fun. My church also has a bible college that teaches various subjects such as bible study methods, doctrines, studies on the old testament and the new, and other things such as moving in the spirit . Most people I know that took those courses have nothing but good experiences. So I am definitely looking into taking either that philosophy course at a local university, or a course at my churches bible college.

That's great. My Church does study groups every now and then. My uncle taught a couple in the past.

Also every year I get a magazine in the mail called The Great Courses. They are university quality lectures that are put on DVD so that you can watch them at home. They have dozens of DVD lectures on Philosophy, religion, Christianity, Jesus, the gospels and Church history. I haven't bought any yet. But I am thinking of buying one that is on sale.

They are expensive though if you don't buy the ones that are sale

This one is about History of Christian Theology and is over a 1,000 minutes long.

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/history-of-christian-theology.html

 

[PacificBoy]

And that simply isn't true. As I have shown a few times already in this thread alone. The problem is skeptics summarily dismiss anything that doesn't jibe with the atheistic "default mode" they have built around "science".

Scepticism is the default mode of science though, its natural purview. When testing a claim, science seeks to actively prove and disprove it at the same time. Calling creationism a pseudoscience is accurate because there's no null hypothesis or counterclaim present in its research.

The theory of evolution is open-ended while creationism is bookended by God. One is a fixed narrative and the other is not.

Anyway, I am considering taking a bible study and methods course at a local university. Any religious folks here taken a religious course before?

My mum has a diploma of biblical studies from a local college. Not sure if it's internationally accredited.

 

[Spock]

Shadow do you think Jesus' powers were literal or just bible making him sound supernatural for mythical purposes?

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Shadow do you think Jesus' powers were literal or just bible making him sound supernatural for mythical purposes?

Yes, I believe Jesus was divine and all the miraculous things it was said that he did happened like walking on water, turning water into wine, healing many people, and rising the dead. Jesus was no ordinary human, he was the son of God or God himself in human form. So it wouldn't be impossible for him to do the things described. I couldn't even call myself a Christian if I didn't believe that Jesus rose from the dead. That's a big part of our faith. The only people that think it's all smoke and mirrors are the non religious.