To Believe or Not To Believe? (SHOW RESPECT, OR RISK A BAN)

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Aziz made a good post. I'd add that when you engage in premarital sex, desire to experiment and try different partners increases which then leads to this need to find "sexual compatibility." Women tend to have a binding loyalty based on pleasure of sex, regardless of how they feel about the individual. That type of urge can create division within relationship, instead of focusing on character of good mate, you're now trying to compare sexual experience and willingness across multiple partners. If you wait until marriage, you don't have anything to compare experience to and will more likely be satisfied. Even if you need to work on sexual intimacy, patience with your spouse will create better experience. Engaging in premarital sex will just leave you hungry for newer and diverse sexual experiences and may lead you to be inpatient with any one individual.

Suppose something happens to your spouse and then sex isn't as good as it use to be. Are you now going to seriously contemplate divorcing person? Sex is important within confines of marriage...but beyond that, sexual experience and sexual hunger shouldn't be a driving force within relationship. Premarital sex creates that reality of this sexual hunger, which can lead to other dysfunctions in the relationship.
 
Aziz made a good post. I'd add that when you engage in premarital sex, desire to experiment and try different partners increases which then leads to this need to find "sexual compatibility." Women tend to have a binding loyalty based on pleasure of sex, regardless of how they feel about the individual. That type of urge can create division within relationship, instead of focusing on character of good mate, you're now trying to compare sexual experience and willingness across multiple partners. If you wait until marriage, you don't have anything to compare experience to and will more likely be satisfied. Even if you need to work on sexual intimacy, patience with your spouse will create better experience. Engaging in premarital sex will just leave you hungry for newer and diverse sexual experiences and may lead you to be inpatient with any one individual.

Suppose something happens to your spouse and then sex isn't as good as it use to be. Are you now going to seriously contemplate divorcing person? Sex is important within confines of marriage...but beyond that, sexual experience and sexual hunger shouldn't be a driving force within relationship. Premarital sex creates that reality of this sexual hunger, which can lead to other dysfunctions in the relationship.

How did you arrive at that? Men are as guilty of doing just that.

If I unite in marriage with a widow or a divorcee, I won't have much of a problem.

I see. Would you consider an unmarried non-virgin though?
 
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Viewing often leads to *********ion, men viewing naked women often leads to *********ion, more *********ion will weaken the penis, erection will come slower, the erection will lean sideways, ejaculation will release faster, discharge becomes weaker.

Source? Not a one of those claims sounds plausible to me.
 
Viewing often leads to *********ion, men viewing naked women often leads to *********ion, more *********ion will weaken the penis, erection will come slower, the erection will lean sideways, ejaculation will release faster, discharge becomes weaker.

You're really reaching here. There are plenty of ways to control the length of an erection and power of "discharge". If a fervent *********or stops *********ing for a few weeks, or even days, the discharge will be just as powerful as it was before.

And for the actors, they don't have the right emotions doing what they do, their is no proper joy. Actors have to do it more often than a couple love to have sex, it taxes them, takes them over the natural limit.
Sisyphean sex, that's what porn is, it lacks the proper discharge of hormones during the process.

That's because it's their job. The sex between them and their 'proper' partner will feel just as meaningful because there's an emotional connection there.

God knows how we are created, how we function, because we are creations of God. God knows what is best for us, and gave us the basic rule of limitation and guidance how to act on such desire. These guides are mercy, not oppression.
Some people enjoy watching porn, but there are things some folks come to enjoy, while these things are not good for them.

I don't believe God exists and I don't believe the writers of the Bible or the Qu'ran know what's best for me.

Science is supposed to give a cleared image of why certain acts are denied or limited to us, by explaining our body functions and limitations, and through this I came to have better grasp of why some of the acts are forbidden, what makes certain food good, and other food bad, etc...
If I unite in marriage with a widow or a divorcee, I won't have much of a problem.

And yet, scientists still *********e, have sex outside of marriage, eat non-halal foods. Can't be too bad, then.
 
Source? Not a one of those claims sounds plausible to me.
Don't remember.

You're really reaching here. There are plenty of ways to control the length of an erection and power of "discharge". If a fervent *********or stops *********ing for a few weeks, or even days, the discharge will be just as powerful as it was before.
What if one cannot stop the habit? And the return is not as good as it originally was?

That's because it's their job. The sex between them and their 'proper' partner will feel just as meaningful because there's an emotional connection there.
What if too much sex makes it too tiring? And then when they want to pleasure their partner, the pleasure is not there? Because the actor/actress ran out of steam?

I don't believe God exists and I don't believe the writers of the Bible or the Qu'ran know what's best for me.
I believe, and although translation is done by man, the original scripture is not man words.

And yet, scientists still *********e, have sex outside of marriage, eat non-halal foods. Can't be too bad, then.
They find science, but scientists are human too, they are prone to making mistakes as anyone else.
 
Women tend to have a binding loyalty based on pleasure of sex, regardless of how they feel about the individual.
That's completely backwards.

If you wait until marriage, you don't have anything to compare experience to and will more likely be satisfied. Even if you need to work on sexual intimacy, patience with your spouse will create better experience. Engaging in premarital sex will just leave you hungry for newer and diverse sexual experiences and may lead you to be inpatient with any one individual.
That just sounds like deliberately setting yourself up to have low standards. Or maybe even a form of deliberate self-delusion. It's creating a fantasy that the sex you're having is the BEST SEX EVER and nothing else would compare. That kind of mindset just doesn't sound healthy to me.
 
Looking at another men/woman on the street can lead to lust as well. Lust isn't something to be ashamed of. It's a normal reaction to sexual images. You can be in a committed relationship, feel lust towards other people, and yet still be able to control those impulses and not endanger your relationship.

It doesn't have to be a bad thing either. You can channel those urges in a positive way. You can take that sexual charge you get from an encounter with say an attractive person in line at the grocery store and you can redirect back itno your relationship. Those lustful feelings about other people aren't going to go away just because you're in a relationship, so it's healthy to learn how to use it positively.
 
Aziz made a good post. I'd add that when you engage in premarital sex, desire to experiment and try different partners increases which then leads to this need to find "sexual compatibility."

What is your source for this information?

You can't just pass off your personal opinion about something as fact. None of what you said is supported by evidence. You just think this is the case. It's not.
 
Women tend to have a binding loyalty based on pleasure of sex, regardless of how they feel about the individual.
...Okay, I'll bite. Where did you get this information from? Where did you get the info that this is so prevalent from? And what of men who do this?
 
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For those who are saving themselves for religious reasons, would you be okay with your SO being a non-virgin?

Well for me, my future girlfriend/ wife would need to be a christian. If she had sex in the past but is currently in relationship with Christ I would be okay with that. It's highly unlikely that I would purse a relationship with a girl who isn't a Christian.
 
Aziz and Tech's post are spot on in my opinion.
about what? I can't speak for either one of them, but I believe Aziz (and myself) speak mostly from an Islamic perspective.

I could be wrong but this thread looks largely to be on discussions of Christianity. Which is fine, I'm just saying that could be why Aziz's posts regarding the ongoing conversations seem a little different.
 
What is your source for this information?

You can't just pass off your personal opinion about something as fact. None of what you said is supported by evidence. You just think this is the case. It's not.

Rapid sexual involvement may have adverse long-term implications for relationship quality. This study examined the tempo of sexual intimacy and subsequent relationship quality in a sample of married and cohabiting men and women. Data come from the Marital and Relationship Survey, which provides information on nearly 600 low- to moderate-income couples living with minor children. Over one third of respondents became sexually involved within the first month of the relationship. Bivariate results suggested that delaying sexual involvement was associated with higher relationship quality across several dimensions. The multivariate results indicated that the speed of entry into sexual relationships was negatively associated with marital quality, but only among women. The association between relationship tempo and relationship quality was largely driven by cohabitation. Cohabiting may result in poorer quality relationship because rapid sexual involvement early in the romantic relationship is associated with entrance into shared living.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...sCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false


In this study, the association was explored between the number of sexual partners individuals had in their lifetimes and martial outcomes. The research objective was to test whether the number of sexual partners was associated with sexual quality, communication, relationship satisfaction, and relationship stability, while controlling for relationship length, education, race, income, age, and religiosity, using the two competing theories of sexual compatibility and sexual restraint. The results, with a sample of 2,654 married individuals, indicated that the number of sexual partners was associated with lower levels of sexual quality, communication, and relationship stability, providing support for the sexual restraint theory. Gender was not significantly associated with the patterns in the model but age cohorts did have different patterns.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...sCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false

Using a sample of 1,134 emerging adults, this study explores how the importance place on marriage, ideal marital timing, and criteria for marriage readiness varies by sexual experience. Sexual experience groups were created using cluster analysis techniques that incorporated both sexual behaviors and attitudes. Results from this study indicate that high rates of sexual experience were related to an increased personal belief that marriage is an important goal and a belief that being single holds more advantages over being married. Emerging adults with high rates of sexual experience were also more likely to believe that sexual experience and cohabitation are important criteria for marriage readiness.


http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10804-011-9138-7

However, women who have more than one intimate premarital relationship have an increased risk of marital dissolution. These results suggest that neither premarital sex nor premarital cohabitation by itself indicate either preexisting characteristics or subsequent relationship environments that weaken marriages. Indeed, the findings are consistent with the notion that premarital sex and cohabitation limited to one's future spouse has become part of the normal courtship process for marriage.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2003.00444.x/abstract


My conclusion:
People who engage in premarital sex are more likely to indicate importance of determining sexual compatibility in relationship, yet are more likely to report lower sexual satisfaction within committed relationships. Furthermore, an increase in premarital sex partners is associated with higher rate of marriage dissolution.
 
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...Okay, I'll bite. Where did you get this information from? Where did you get the info that this is so prevalent from? And what of men who do this?

I did quick google and i think this link provides enough background for sake of conversation:

What is oxytocin?
Basically, it’s one of our many hormones. Both men and women have it, and while its exact purpose is still unclear, it increases in our systems during orgasm (for men and women) and during childbirth (it’s what bonds mothers to their babies). It’s released into our bloodstreams in response to breast or vaginal stimulation as well says Dr. Beverly Whipple, Secretary General of the World Association for Sexual Health.

Is it him or the oxytocin that I’m attracted to?
Oxytocin has been found to increase our levels of trust and make us feel more connected with people. But what if that oxytocin released during sex makes us feel connected with someone who’s wrong for us?

“A year ago, a friend flipped for a guy whom, when I met him, I didn’t quite ‘get.’ He wasn’t all that nice. Just what did she see in him, I wondered. But I started to understand, because whenever his name came up in conversation, so did great sex ... with him,” says blogger Kat Wilder. She adds: “I wouldn’t doubt all that lovin’ triggers that oxytocin bonding.”

“The oxytocin response is unconscious; it takes place within the autonomic nervous system, so it's hard to change it. But we definitely should be aware of what's going on when we feel this. Say you sleep with a man who's a jerk but a great lover. The next morning, part of you is going, ‘This guy is a prick.’ But another part of you says, ‘Oh, I feel this incredible connection with him.’ Well, that incredible connection is just your oxytocin talking. Remind yourself, he's not really The One—and keep looking until you find someone who's nice out of bed, too,” Kuchinskas says.

Susan Kuchinskas, who writes a blog about oxytocin and has a book, Love Chemistry: How Oxytocin Lets us Trust, Love and Mate, due early in 2008, offers some insight:

“Oxytocin seems to have been ‘designed’ by nature to make a man and woman feel bonded after sex, so they would stay together and raise children,” she says. “Today, the physiology of men and women still plays out according to this pattern. But estrogen seems to increase the calming and bonding effects of oxytocin, while testosterone seems to mute them. That's why women tend to feel more attached after sex than men do.”


http://www.savvymiss.com/love-advic...ing-your-relationship-4326.html?All&PrintPage
 
Esteemed Preacher and Professor Fred Craddock passes away at age 86

craddock2.jpg
“Fred Craddock was a national treasure and a devoted servant of the church and Jesus Christ. His impact on preaching – in terms both of scholarship and practice – is incalculable,” Long said. “On the scholarly side, his 1971 book As One Without Authority tilted the homiletical world on its axis and is arguably the most significant book in preaching to appear in the last 100 years. In that book, Fred Craddock articulated a form of proclamation that he called “inductive preaching.” In the inductive approach, the preacher, instead of announcing the main idea of the sermon at the beginning and then unpacking that idea in three or more didactic “points,” would work cooperatively with the hearers toward the disclosure of the sermon’s idea near the sermon’s end, usually experienced as a mutual discovery and shared burst of insight.”

You can read the rest at
http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/...acher-and-professor-fred-craddock-dead-at-86/
 
My condolences to his family, and everyone he knew.
 
about what? I can't speak for either one of them, but I believe Aziz (and myself) speak mostly from an Islamic perspective.

I could be wrong but this thread looks largely to be on discussions of Christianity. Which is fine, I'm just saying that could be why Aziz's posts regarding the ongoing conversations seem a little different.

One of aziz post was good involving pre martial sex.
 
For a person who is a Christian not engaging pre marital sex isn't a punishment or something that's oppresive. It actually has a sound reason behind it. See for us Christians, God created sex as an expression of love between a man and wife. Yes, he gave all human's a sexual desire, but the reward of being obedient to his word is being intimate with your significant other on your wedding night. Pre martial sex/ *********ion/sleeping around with anybody just teaches self gratification. Like I mentioned before, the idea of waiting until your married to have sex seems outdated, lame, oppressive, un cool to people who aren't christians, but I wouldn't have it any other way.

Personally, I think it's kinda sad when couples who have already been having sex eventually get married. To me, it makes the occasion less special for the couple. They don't really have anything to look forward to on their wedding night. It's like opening up your Christmas presents weeks before its actually Christmas. So by Christmas morning ( wedding night) the gifts ( sex) will still be cool but it won't really be as special, nor will it be a new experince shared between the couple.

Now I will admit it's not a easy thing to stay pure before marriage. Sex is glorified in media and society. Pre martial sex is pretty much encouraged by society. It's a struggle between media, porn etc but I know people who remained virgins until marriage and so far their relationships have been solid. So it's not an impossible thing to to. It just takes will power and for us Christians a love for God and his word. I am 27 and have not had sex. I had my struggles with porn in the past ( which I asked God for forgiveness for) , but I have not engaged in any sexual intercourse with a girl, and will not do so until I met and marry the girl I am meant to spend the rest of my life with. I don't need to have had slept with multiple women prior to marriage to "explore myself sexually". Sex with my future wife is all I need or want.
This is also a great post as well.
 
Rapid sexual involvement may have adverse long-term implications for relationship quality. This study examined the tempo of sexual intimacy and subsequent relationship quality in a sample of married and cohabiting men and women. Data come from the Marital and Relationship Survey, which provides information on nearly 600 low- to moderate-income couples living with minor children. Over one third of respondents became sexually involved within the first month of the relationship. Bivariate results suggested that delaying sexual involvement was associated with higher relationship quality across several dimensions. The multivariate results indicated that the speed of entry into sexual relationships was negatively associated with marital quality, but only among women. The association between relationship tempo and relationship quality was largely driven by cohabitation. Cohabiting may result in poorer quality relationship because rapid sexual involvement early in the romantic relationship is associated with entrance into shared living.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...sCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false


In this study, the association was explored between the number of sexual partners individuals had in their lifetimes and martial outcomes. The research objective was to test whether the number of sexual partners was associated with sexual quality, communication, relationship satisfaction, and relationship stability, while controlling for relationship length, education, race, income, age, and religiosity, using the two competing theories of sexual compatibility and sexual restraint. The results, with a sample of 2,654 married individuals, indicated that the number of sexual partners was associated with lower levels of sexual quality, communication, and relationship stability, providing support for the sexual restraint theory. Gender was not significantly associated with the patterns in the model but age cohorts did have different patterns.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...sCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false

Using a sample of 1,134 emerging adults, this study explores how the importance place on marriage, ideal marital timing, and criteria for marriage readiness varies by sexual experience. Sexual experience groups were created using cluster analysis techniques that incorporated both sexual behaviors and attitudes. Results from this study indicate that high rates of sexual experience were related to an increased personal belief that marriage is an important goal and a belief that being single holds more advantages over being married. Emerging adults with high rates of sexual experience were also more likely to believe that sexual experience and cohabitation are important criteria for marriage readiness.


http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10804-011-9138-7

However, women who have more than one intimate premarital relationship have an increased risk of marital dissolution. These results suggest that neither premarital sex nor premarital cohabitation by itself indicate either preexisting characteristics or subsequent relationship environments that weaken marriages. Indeed, the findings are consistent with the notion that premarital sex and cohabitation limited to one's future spouse has become part of the normal courtship process for marriage.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2003.00444.x/abstract


My conclusion:
People who engage in premarital sex are more likely to indicate importance of determining sexual compatibility in relationship, yet are more likely to report lower sexual satisfaction within committed relationships. Furthermore, an increase in premarital sex partners is associated with higher rate of marriage dissolution.

Did you just read the abstracts of these studies or did you pay to read the full articles?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/21/more-sexual-partners-unhappy-marriage_n_5698440.html

There are a wide variety of reasons that may lead people to have multiple partners before marriage and, independent of how many partners they have, also be less satisfied in marriage," Dr. Jim McNulty, a social psychology professor from Florida State University who has published a plethora of research on the topic, wrote in an email.

"For example, people who tend to avoid commitment in general may have more sexual partners and be less happy when they settle down. It’s not the fact that they have more sexual partners that leads them to be less happy, it’s the fact that they don’t really like commitment. I would be very surprised if having multiple sexual partners before marriage, independent of any other factor, has a direct causal influence."

In other words, correlation should never be confused with causation.


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/24/moral-case-for-sex-before-marriage


On the contrary, sex is like most other pleasurable things in life – you can have sex in ways that are fulfilling, fun, good and generous, or you can have sex in ways that are harmful, bad and dangerous. Marriage is not, and has never been, a way to protect against the harmful, bad and dangerous potential of sex (just read the Bible if you want a few examples). Instead of fooling ourselves into thinking that waiting until marriage makes sex "good", we should focus on how ethical, responsible sexual practices – taking precautions to protect the physical and mental health of yourself and your partner; having sex that is fully consensual and focused on mutual pleasure – are part of being an ethical, responsible human being.

Sexual morality isn't about how long you wait. It's about how you treat yourself and the people you're with.


The issue with premarital sex is that our society is obsessed with sex while still viewing it as something embarrassing or shameful. We know for a fact that abstinence only sex education does not work and causes more harm than good. What we need is to teach young people about how sex is natural and we have natural urges that we need to be aware of and embrace while still protecting ourselves. Premarital sex only becomes dangerous when you prohibit it. Sexual repression is horrible for the psyche.


I would also like to point out that 95% of Americans have sex before marriage. To say sex before marriage causes lower quality of sex after marriage and poor communication would be saying that the majority of Americans are unhappy with their marriages. I think the problem is looking at the number of sexual partners before marriage and using that as the cause for unhappy marriages. It's like saying that because both ice cream sales and crime increase in the summer, ice cream must be the cause of crime.
 
Sex is natural because we are instinctively moved to want to pass on our genes just like any other animal.
 
Looking at another men/woman on the street can lead to lust as well. Lust isn't something to be ashamed of. It's a normal reaction to sexual images. You can be in a committed relationship, feel lust towards other people, and yet still be able to control those impulses and not endanger your relationship.

True, but if you want to understand the Christian view on it then you have to factor in original sin and the Fall of Creation. Even the Church, which accepts evolution by God's direction and hand, believes in Original Sin. How they factor together is a Mystery of the Faith, but in the Christian belief the current "normal" state of humans is a fallen state. So lust is normal but not a good thing. Christians don't deny that lust is something that we all experience but like you said that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to control our lust. Viewing pornography isn't controlling one's lust. It's feeding it, and in Christian doctrine and scripture it is said that we can't feed our fallen sinful nature and our renewed nature in Christ. We are to restrain ourselves.

Romans 8 : 3-17
3. by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and to deal with sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For this reason the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law—indeed it cannot, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit that dwells in you.

12 So then, brothers and sisters, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13 for if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received a spirit of adoption. When we cry, ‘Abba! Father!’ 16 it is that very Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ—if, in fact, we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him.
 
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Sex is natural because we are instinctively moved to want to pass on our genes just like any other animal.

The Church and Christians in general don't deny this.
 
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