The Dark Knight To Bleach or Not to Bleach? That is the Question

[the_scream]

Thanks for answering. Cool username.
Heath would have made a magnificent Rasputin.

Funny to think that the Joker started out as a jewel thief and that the Nolans did a 360 and made him an agent of chaos who really has no interest in money, the exact contrary, as explained by Alfred in his wonderful "Burma speech".

What a great evolution for the character. And they still brillantly reference Batman #1 and 2 (Joker first appearances) by bringing him back to his dark roots and at the police parade (and the announcement beforehand of murders to come).
I think TDK Joker is my favorite incarnation of the character (in all media) because it homages everything that came before, is still very much the Joker and at the same time brings a fresh approach (including the "make-up take").

Well said. I'm playing catch-up with a lot of the comic Joker stories but I have yet to read a Joker story that matches the one presented in TDK. I prefer Nolan's Joker all the way. In fact, I much prefer Bale's Batman to the one presented in the comics. He has more dimension in BB and TDK than any graphic novel where he is constantly portrayed as this ultimate, surly bad arse which, quite frankly, gets old really quick.

 

[regwec]

He hasn't been portrayed that way since "Infinate Crisis", or before Jason Todd's death.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Well said. I'm playing catch-up with a lot of the comic Joker stories but I have yet to read a Joker story that matches the one presented in TDK. I prefer Nolan's Joker all the way. In fact, I much prefer Bale's Batman to the one presented in the comics. He has more dimension in BB and TDK than any graphic novel where he is constantly portrayed as this ultimate, surly bad arse which, quite frankly, gets old really quick.

Thank you! Do we ever get to see Bruce Wayne in the comics anymore? Christ its so one dimensional now!

 

[gwynplaine]

Well said. I'm playing catch-up with a lot of the comic Joker stories but I have yet to read a Joker story that matches the one presented in TDK. I prefer Nolan's Joker all the way. In fact, I much prefer Bale's Batman to the one presented in the comics. He has more dimension in BB and TDK than any graphic novel where he is constantly portrayed as this ultimate, surly bad arse which, quite frankly, gets old really quick.

Agreed.

 

[regwec]

Have any of you actually read the comics since Dini and Morrison took over the main titles? "Detective Comics", particularly, has shown us more of Bruce Wayne and his affairs than we have seen for years; and "Batman" has hinged heavily on Bruce's relationship with Jezebel Jett for a long time.

I really don't know what you are complaining about.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Have any of you actually read the comics since Dini and Morrison took over the main titles? "Detective Comics", particularly, has shown us more of Bruce Wayne and his affairs than we have seen for years; and "Batman" has hinged heavily on Bruce's relationship with Jezebel Jett for a long time.

I really don't know what you are complaining about.

Well the writing is based on the gimmick of presenting batman as a dick and that put me off. I am recently took up RIP because everyone was talking about it. They used Bruce only because Jezebel is important to the story. Would they have taken time to show Bruce Wayne in some interesting situation outside the manor and cave? Nolan managed to do that.

I ve been reading the Detective Comics RIP tie and it didnt have bruce at all. Maybe a little. Are you referring to pre-RIP issues? Were they any good in general?

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Well said. I'm playing catch-up with a lot of the comic Joker stories but I have yet to read a Joker story that matches the one presented in TDK. I prefer Nolan's Joker all the way. In fact, I much prefer Bale's Batman to the one presented in the comics. He has more dimension in BB and TDK than any graphic novel where he is constantly portrayed as this ultimate, surly bad arse which, quite frankly, gets old really quick.

You haven't read many good graphic novels. Which ones did you read?
Let me tell you this, as great as the Dark Knight was, you'd need Nolan to make a hundred sequels before you even scratched the surface on how complex and dimensional the comic Bruce and Joker are. It's just inevitable though I guess, 70 years of writing always proves better than a movie for obvious reasons, a lot of people will see this, but then a lot of people will also not like comics.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea there are some great comics out there that show Bruce Wayne and Joker's relationship brilliantly. Batman isn't just some surly, one dimensional character, he never has been.

 

[gwynplaine]

I haven't seen the Batman/Joker relationship done better in the comics than in TDK, not even TKJ which I love. Not putting down the comics, I am a big fan and I read a lot of them, just saying that for me TDK was my favourite Joker/Batman relationship ever . (and also my favourite relationship between a hero and his nemesis in general).

 

[nickyg641]

If only Nolan would have acknowledged this and said something like:

"Yeah, well... white neck, white arms – not so realistic."

Then I would probably understand better the direction of the character. But he doesn't. Maybe on the bonus disc. It doesn't seem likely, though.

Yeah, he never really clarified his motives. Any time he was directly asked, his swerved and said something like, "Well, we never wanted to do an origin story..." Which doesn't say much, because permawhite doesn't necessitate an origin.

But, that said, the makeup angle has grown on me fantastically, and I've come to like it quite a bit. Not that I want to see it become an ongoing thing, at least not with the base white. I wouldn't mind seeing, not one bit, a Joker who accentuated his already grotesquely pale complexion (and perhaps even cut smile) with black eye makeup and red lipstick.

 

[The Joker]

I haven't seen the Batman/Joker relationship done better in the comics than in TDK, not even TKJ which I love. Not putting down the comics, I am a big fan and I read a lot of them, just saying that for me TDK was my favourite Joker/Batman relationship ever . (and also my favourite relationship between a hero and his nemesis in general).

Really?

What exactly did TDK do better about their relationship for you?

 

[CaptainClown]

I think TKJ did it best. Especially Batman basically saying "we are going to kill each other" That mutual understanding of their place in Gotham.

 

[gwynplaine]

Really?

What exactly did TDK do better about their relationship for you?

I would elaborate but I think it's mostly a matter of taste therefore probably hard to discuss.

 

[The Joker]

I think TKJ did it best. Especially Batman basically saying "we are going to kill each other" That mutual understanding of their place in Gotham.

I agree. And when he said something like "We've known eachother for so long, and yet we know nothing about eachother. How can two people hate so much and not know anything about eachother at all?"

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I think there relationship in the new Joker GN is brilliantly pulled off.

Joker is a disease, and there is no cure, only a Batman to keep him at bay.

 

[Crook]

Since when has that ever been different?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I didn't say it was different, just that they actually word it that way. The way they treat Batman in that whole GN is excellent IMO. The little parts where Joker is talking to him as though he is watching, makes Batman seem like a mythical force, the way he should be from a criminal P.O.V

 

[Seditionary]

Maybe favorite explanation of the joker is in arkham asylum. That he is a different thing constantly recreating himself and its all the same as far as everyone else is concerned.

My favorite explanation of the Joker and batman's relationship would be when batman almost kills the joker in Hush...either that or the "one bad day" theme in the killing joke.

But I really like the way the Dark Knight pretty much sums the relationship up bringing elements from other sources on them together. Every moment they have together is perfect to me...The whole speech at the end..the interrogation room..

Batman doesn't realize how serious a problem he is until later and the Joker slashes his way through the movie pushing enough buttons to finally get Batman to try and beat him. The joker knows everything about batman and what he will do because he understands himself and therefore the connection between them.

My favorite thing about the Joker and batman relationship in the dark knight is that the joker never lies to batman.

 

[CaptainClown]

Joker lies to Batman. He lied where he could find Rachel Dawes.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea he lies about the locations of Harvey and Rachel, but maybe that was just because it was necessary.

I've always thought though, at the end when he asks Batman about his scars, that he was going to actually tell him the truth. I mean if there is one person he is going to tell the truth about his origin or past it would be Batman.

 

[CaptainClown]

Maybe, but how would we know its the truth?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Good point. Well I don't wanna know the truth. "I can't handle the truth!"

 

[Bathead]

Well, its often been said the Joker is not too sure himself about his past.

 

[StylishHokie21]

I actually liked the dirty make-up look more than I thought I would.

 

[nightwing666]

We have been hearing how big of a deal ''make up'' is from the ''perma'' crowd for a year and all of a sudden it has no effect on the way the character is performed or executed.

Spot on mate!!!