The Dark Knight To Bleach or Not to Bleach? That is the Question

[Infinity9999x]

Spot on mate!!!

Not everyone was quite as one sided as that. I know way back when that Regwec said multiple times that he fully expected to love the movie, he just wished they had stayed closer to Joker's comic look. I was an avid supporter of perma-white as well, but that was also more or less the opinion I had on it. I knew I'd probably love the movie (and I did) I just wished Nolan had incorported the skin. I think you could do a lot of a cool things with Joker having bleached skin in cinema today, imagine how creepy he would have looked if his skin had been a blotchy white, almost the way a body looks when it's drained of blood. Add a cut smile onto that and the makeup around his eyes and mouth...he would have looked pretty sick.

However, I still like the makeup idea in film form, Heath's interpretation was so kick ass that the makeup didn't bother me one bit.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

They must of been thinking about making him pale or "permawhite". Some of those Joker concepts he looks really pale, almost undead like. Pretty cool, but i'm happy with the make up route for this interpretation.

 

[Seditionary]

Joker doesn't really lie to batman. He gives him them mixed up. If batman was the world's greatest detective he would know that 250 52nd street is the same backwards as it is fowards. Im still right.

 

[gwynplaine]

They must of been thinking about making him pale or "permawhite". Some of those Joker concepts he looks really pale, almost undead like. Pretty cool, but i'm happy with the make up route for this interpretation.

Anybody has that great Alex Ross quote where he says that the Joker pale complexion makes him look like a zombie or something ?

 

[MrQuinn]

Anybody has that great Alex Ross quote where he says that the Joker pale complexion makes him look like a zombie or something ?

Alex Ross's Bizarro looks like a zombie.


Maybe Michael Jackson should of have played Joker, then this thread wouldn't exist.
Granted a whole slew of other threads would in its place...

 

[nickyg641]

Anybody has that great Alex Ross quote where he says that the Joker pale complexion makes him look like a zombie or something ?

No, but I'd love to hear that quote. That's one reason I'm especially fond of permawhite: he looks like a walking cadaver.

 

[Bathead]

I have no problem with the makeup angle in the movie, But I just always liked the idea that Batman can take off his mask and lead a relatively "normal" life, whereas Joker can't do that, and I think on top of blaming Batman for his condition, ( the Red Hood story) he's also perhaps jealous of him. Although he probably wouldn't admit it.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I see the "perma-smile" as the replacement for "permawhite". He has something that is perminantly there, his hideously scarred face.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Not dissing the makeup, but one of the reasons I love the bleach angle is his immaculate, clean whiteness. All that blood on his hands and yet he's as clean as a lamb. Makes for a very nice contrast. Batman looks like the scary villain while Joker looks like the happy clown.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Good point. I do like the decaying make-up though, makes him look more unhumanly IMO.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I initially took some issue with the make-up because I thought Nolan might butcher the Joker for the sake of realism.

That didn't happen, and I have no problem with it at all now that I've watched the movie.

 

[gwynplaine]

Not dissing the makeup, but one of the reasons I love the bleach angle is his immaculate, clean whiteness. All that blood on his hands and yet he's as clean as a lamb. Makes for a very nice contrast. Batman looks like the scary villain while Joker looks like the happy clown.

Yeah, he looked more like a zombie clown (more george than cesar Romero), but I thought we had the happy clown with Nicholson so I was fine with that "Francis Bacon" spin (to quote Nolan) on the Joker.

 

[Judson Caspian]

all of a sudden it has no effect on the way the character is performed or executed.

Maybe because performance has nothing to do with the character's makeup.

 

[Saint]

Earlier, Regwec mentioned an unusual skintone to Ledger's Joker. With the Blu-Ray screens blasting out on beams of awesomeness across the interwebs, we can see what he meant. Notice how much darker the skin gets across the eyes and bridge of the nose. There's a mottled, uneven quality to it. I'm curious as to what might cause that sort of damage.

I love this scene. The way it's shot makes Ledger almost ghost-like, and they manage to make him look as unnatural out of his makeup as he does in it. It's just absolutely ridiculous how well they handled the Joker in this movie. Even the music, which, as far as I'm concerned, is to the Joker as John William's theme is to Superman.

 

[batman11]

I'm curious as to what might cause that sort of damage.

Pressure issues during a bad scuba-diving accident? t:

But I agree with you Saint. There's something very chilling about the Joker without makeup. You want to believe you're just looking at Heath, but you can't. He's completely transformed, right down to the murderous glare in his eyes. And I'm also in agreement about the score. I know a few score buffs who write it off simply as "not real music" or not the standard orchestral type theme you'd expect, however, I think that's the precise reason why it's so unique and fitting for a character like the Joker.

 

[alexdunn]

I'm sure having make-up on for days at a time will f**k up your skin.

 

[nickyg641]

My inner obsessive geek and former Permawhite Supremecist is rearing its ugly head. With the BD live thing coming up, there's finally a chance to ask Nolan whether or not makeup was always the only direction they considered, or if they arrived at it at some point during the process.

Not that I'm extremely interested in the answer anymore, but we've got the opportunity, and it's been suching a huge discussing point amongst the fans. Plus it's something that has always annoyed me as not ever having been directly asked or commented upon.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

Earlier, Regwec mentioned an unusual skintone to Ledger's Joker. With the Blu-Ray screens blasting out on beams of awesomeness across the interwebs, we can see what he meant. Notice how much darker the skin gets across the eyes and bridge of the nose. There's a mottled, uneven quality to it. I'm curious as to what might cause that sort of damage.
I love this scene. The way it's shot makes Ledger almost ghost-like, and they manage to make him look as unnatural out of his makeup as he does in it. It's just absolutely ridiculous how well they handled the Joker in this movie. Even the music, which, as far as I'm concerned, is to the Joker as John William's theme is to Superman.

I agree with almost all of this bar the music comment. I'm not writing it off as "not music" but to call it the Joker equivalent of John William's score for Superman is a bit much for me to swallow. The two note theme is a good idea but I don't feel it encompassed the character as well as another theme could have.

Still, even in the cinema as much as I despised the thought of Joker out of makeup (or makeup at all) I did greatly appreciate the briefness of the scene and the unnatural appearance even not including the scars, as if vague traces of the makeup remained.

 

[Judson Caspian]

I think the makeup aspect adds a little more to the "chaos" aspect of Joker's character in the film...

It still was a too big depart from the original look. I have nothing against the make up. It's just that not only his face was white, but everything else. Up till recently.

 

[iDannyR]

I'm not bothered by it, the makeup makes him more realistic, but that's probably already been mentioned.

 

[Marden]

I see the "perma-smile" as the replacement for "permawhite". He has something that is permanently there, his hideously scarred face.

I kind of share the same opinion about this issue and the messed up make-up looks okay, too.

 

[Bloodwynd]

I really like the idea of him applying make-up, mainly because it keeps the realism intact. Besides, Heath was giving too much of a stellar performance for me to even care that he wasn't permawhite.

 

[regwec]

The realism isn't intact.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Realism has nothing to do with it IMO. I don't think Nolan is the type of guy to just go "Oh well let's just make it easier and give him some make-up." There is a reason for the make-up, same way there would be a reason if Nolan decided to make him "permawhite". What i'm saying is that if Nolan wanted to make Joker permawhite, he would of came up with a plausible reason to do so. He chose to make him wear make up for creative reasons, not just because it is "realistic".

 

[Beanjuice]

The way i see it, the permawhite could have worked just fine. Just looks at Bermejos Joker. that was set in a similar realistic environment