The Dark Knight To Bleach or Not to Bleach? That is the Question

[Solidus]

Even though I have posted it before, I can tell a lot of new faces are in here. This is how I see the TDK Joker, in comparison of the comic book Joker.

Not saying its fact, its just how I see it.

I kinda took some time to write out “why” I don't mind the Joker not being perma-white. Now I'm not saying that, because I'm right, but I fully understand why Nolan took this route, and saw it still as the core of what makes the Joker, the Clown Prince Of Crime.


First I want to look at just the classic (and great) comic book version of the Joker. He is a man, no one really knows his history before the “accident” but that can always be left up for imagination. Yet when he fell into the chemicals by most versions his skin was bleached white. Now, I always try to look at it from a different point of view. Joker gets out of the vat of chemicals, now he is bleached. Technically being bleached skin does not make a person automatically a clown like person. There are real people out there with bleached skin, or pigment issues and right away one does not go: “Hey its a clown!” When the Joker saw himself in a mirror or what ever, he himself decided, and felt that he looked like a clown, then in deciding to make that so, he did many things to give him the clown appearance. White skin is just one step in looking like a clown. He put on theatrical clothes, of odd colors: purple, orange, green. To give him a more theatrical and some what comical look such as a clown. Adding red lipstick or black eye shadow on his eye sockets, to make himself look more clown like. Not only that he chose to use toys, and act like a clown, and laugh like one too. These for the most part are choices, though fate was thrust upon him, these were still choices made by him.


Technically the bleached Joker could have gone out people would of looked at him like a freak, but not necessarily a clown. And he could of gotten black paint and made himself look like a Zebra, and called him self the “Zebra Killer” but he did not, he chose the clown persona. And acted as such, either because he felt that is what he looked like or not, he still chose that look for himself.


Now look at the Joker in “The Dark Knight” we have a guy who we have no idea what his past is. Yet he clearly had a deformity thrust upon him, which was this time the accident is not chemicals but a freakish scar that made it look like a smile on his face. With this deformation just like the comic book Joker this one decided he looked like a clown, and put on make up, and made a clown ensemble: the purple, green, and orange look. Not only that he put on the red lipstick and black as well, though yes the difference is that he put on the white and the green hair as well. Yet he still has a deformation that makes him stand out in his own eyes, so because of this event he feels he needs to look like a clown, for what ever reason that may be, we will never know, its the Joker, he is truly and unknown in so many ways.


Yet again it seems to me that Nolan has the core of the character, yes he made one twist on it, but still the results are the same.


Both Jokers:


A. Had an accident that caused some type of deformation.
B. Both felt they must of looked like a clown in their own eyes.

1. C.They both created the clown ensemble around their deformations.

Though I know some see it differently and that is fine. But to me Nolan contained the core of the Joker, in why he does what he does, and why he looks like a clown. Though the approach is different the results in some way are the same.


Though I know some people go well, a scar is not as deforming as a chemical bath. Well, I say “untrue” to that. People think scars are so easily fixed by plastic surgery, well they are not, besides TDKR why doesn't Two-Face right away turn around and get plastic surgery? Because its deeper then that, its not just because they physical deformation they are freaks, but the Joker is also a freak because of his mind, and the way he thinks. He is a sociopath he does not follow norms.


Technically if the Joker wanted to he could cover up being perma-white, with make up just as Joker did in B89, if he truly wanted to fit in. But he does not, the Joker does not fit in because he wants to be a freak. And he just adds to it by creating an clown ensemble.


And to me the scars in TDK are not just for visual alone. They are visuals in the sense that Nolan decided it to be the deformation process, yet on top of that, they are the deformation that sends the Joker over the edge, and making him, or having him dawn the clown persona. So the scars and the perma-white are both in a way two different deformations yet they achieve the same person we know as the Joker. In principle.


So in final words as I see it the Joker in TDK, and the Joker in the comics though they have a huge alteration, still achieve the same character, and characteristics of one another. I wrote this because some of the fine gentlemen on this board maybe wonder why I am completely fine with a make-up Joker. And this is because I see it this way. That they are both the Joker, and besides one deviation they both are the same character that we know and love.

This is just how I view it.

 

[Crook]

No such thing as microwave emitters? I can tell you after 2 semesters of Physics that microwave emitters do exist on a small scale. Now i'm not saying there is one built like the one in BB, but they do exist.

Ok? I JUST said that.

Many of the things you found in BB don't actually exist in real life, but are based on prototypes or existing objects. Just stretched a bit to fit the story's needs.

In the same vein, permawhite is an extension of skin bleach, which does exist in various forms.

Understand?

And as I said....again.....if he had all white skin the new one, some may accept it. I do believe, however, that many would find it a huge stretch in comparison to the other things Nolan uses. Now if Joker's look was a really blotchy imperfect looking bleach all over it could work. But if you took the way the Joker looks exactly in the comics and put him in Nolan's world....many people would think "ok this just went from being remarkably intense and somewhat grounded to being impossible."

All you're doing is repeating yourself. I know your position on the subject. I'm asking WHY you think this is so, considering what I just explained about Nolan's hyperrealism and the audience's previous reactions to a live-action Joker.

 

[JayTee]

many people would think "ok this just went from being remarkably intense and somewhat grounded to being impossible."

--

Or they'd walk out of the movie going "B*tchin! The Joker was cool!"

 

[StylishHokie21]

Exactly!

I don't mind that he isn't permawhite even though it definetly would have a been a much welcomed bonus.

Since Nolan said Joker is an absolute(I think that was the right word he used)and isn't going to have an origin it easily could have worked having him permawhite.

It's not that farfetched ideas like that are what turns off the general audience(Batman '89 seemed to do amazing when it came out) it's when you dumb it down and make it too silly/stupid. Just look at Batman & Robin as well as the Fantastic Four series.

They accepted permawhite back in '89 and I'm pretty damn positive they would have accepted it today. They just wouldn't have gotten the origin again, but I bet the majority who had seen Batman '89 a number of times would have put 2 and 2 together with the chemical bath.

I'm right there with you. Like I said, the make-up look has grown on me some, but I think it would have been better if he had his skin bleached instead.

 

[FhFgJg]

Even though I have posted it before, I can tell a lot of new faces are in here. This is how I see the TDK Joker, in comparison of the comic book Joker.

Not saying its fact, its just how I see it.

I kinda took some time to write out “why” I don't mind the Joker not being perma-white. Now I'm not saying that, because I'm right, but I fully understand why Nolan took this route, and saw it still as the core of what makes the Joker, the Clown Prince Of Crime.


First I want to look at just the classic (and great) comic book version of the Joker. He is a man, no one really knows his history before the “accident” but that can always be left up for imagination. Yet when he fell into the chemicals by most versions his skin was bleached white. Now, I always try to look at it from a different point of view. Joker gets out of the vat of chemicals, now he is bleached. Technically being bleached skin does not make a person automatically a clown like person. There are real people out there with bleached skin, or pigment issues and right away one does not go: “Hey its a clown!” When the Joker saw himself in a mirror or what ever, he himself decided, and felt that he looked like a clown, then in deciding to make that so, he did many things to give him the clown appearance. White skin is just one step in looking like a clown. He put on theatrical clothes, of odd colors: purple, orange, green. To give him a more theatrical and some what comical look such as a clown. Adding red lipstick or black eye shadow on his eye sockets, to make himself look more clown like. Not only that he chose to use toys, and act like a clown, and laugh like one too. These for the most part are choices, though fate was thrust upon him, these were still choices made by him.


Technically the bleached Joker could have gone out people would of looked at him like a freak, but not necessarily a clown. And he could of gotten black paint and made himself look like a Zebra, and called him self the “Zebra Killer” but he did not, he chose the clown persona. And acted as such, either because he felt that is what he looked like or not, he still chose that look for himself.


Now look at the Joker in “The Dark Knight” we have a guy who we have no idea what his past is. Yet he clearly had a deformity thrust upon him, which was this time the accident is not chemicals but a freakish scar that made it look like a smile on his face. With this deformation just like the comic book Joker this one decided he looked like a clown, and put on make up, and made a clown ensemble: the purple, green, and orange look. Not only that he put on the red lipstick and black as well, though yes the difference is that he put on the white and the green hair as well. Yet he still has a deformation that makes him stand out in his own eyes, so because of this event he feels he needs to look like a clown, for what ever reason that may be, we will never know, its the Joker, he is truly and unknown in so many ways.


Yet again it seems to me that Nolan has the core of the character, yes he made one twist on it, but still the results are the same.


Both Jokers:


A. Had an accident that caused some type of deformation.
B. Both felt they must of looked like a clown in their own eyes.

1. C.They both created the clown ensemble around their deformations.

Though I know some see it differently and that is fine. But to me Nolan contained the core of the Joker, in why he does what he does, and why he looks like a clown. Though the approach is different the results in some way are the same.


Though I know some people go well, a scar is not as deforming as a chemical bath. Well, I say “untrue” to that. People think scars are so easily fixed by plastic surgery, well they are not, besides TDKR why doesn't Two-Face right away turn around and get plastic surgery? Because its deeper then that, its not just because they physical deformation they are freaks, but the Joker is also a freak because of his mind, and the way he thinks. He is a sociopath he does not follow norms.


Technically if the Joker wanted to he could cover up being perma-white, with make up just as Joker did in B89, if he truly wanted to fit in. But he does not, the Joker does not fit in because he wants to be a freak. And he just adds to it by creating an clown ensemble.


And to me the scars in TDK are not just for visual alone. They are visuals in the sense that Nolan decided it to be the deformation process, yet on top of that, they are the deformation that sends the Joker over the edge, and making him, or having him dawn the clown persona. So the scars and the perma-white are both in a way two different deformations yet they achieve the same person we know as the Joker. In principle.


So in final words as I see it the Joker in TDK, and the Joker in the comics though they have a huge alteration, still achieve the same character, and characteristics of one another. I wrote this because some of the fine gentlemen on this board maybe wonder why I am completely fine with a make-up Joker. And this is because I see it this way. That they are both the Joker, and besides one deviation they both are the same character that we know and love.

This is just how I view it.

VERY well said.

 

[Conebone69]

The Joker is still the Joker without being Permawhite...Im not bothered by it...lol...Of course Ive said this several times on the old thread...thought Id just throw it out there

QFT! I honestly couldnt care less if he was perma white or not...

 

[deathfromabove]

Even though I have posted it before, I can tell a lot of new faces are in here. This is how I see the TDK Joker, in comparison of the comic book Joker.

Not saying its fact, its just how I see it.

I kinda took some time to write out “why” I don't mind the Joker not being perma-white. Now I'm not saying that, because I'm right, but I fully understand why Nolan took this route, and saw it still as the core of what makes the Joker, the Clown Prince Of Crime.


First I want to look at just the classic (and great) comic book version of the Joker. He is a man, no one really knows his history before the “accident” but that can always be left up for imagination. Yet when he fell into the chemicals by most versions his skin was bleached white. Now, I always try to look at it from a different point of view. Joker gets out of the vat of chemicals, now he is bleached. Technically being bleached skin does not make a person automatically a clown like person. There are real people out there with bleached skin, or pigment issues and right away one does not go: “Hey its a clown!” When the Joker saw himself in a mirror or what ever, he himself decided, and felt that he looked like a clown, then in deciding to make that so, he did many things to give him the clown appearance. White skin is just one step in looking like a clown. He put on theatrical clothes, of odd colors: purple, orange, green. To give him a more theatrical and some what comical look such as a clown. Adding red lipstick or black eye shadow on his eye sockets, to make himself look more clown like. Not only that he chose to use toys, and act like a clown, and laugh like one too. These for the most part are choices, though fate was thrust upon him, these were still choices made by him.


Technically the bleached Joker could have gone out people would of looked at him like a freak, but not necessarily a clown. And he could of gotten black paint and made himself look like a Zebra, and called him self the “Zebra Killer” but he did not, he chose the clown persona. And acted as such, either because he felt that is what he looked like or not, he still chose that look for himself.


Now look at the Joker in “The Dark Knight” we have a guy who we have no idea what his past is. Yet he clearly had a deformity thrust upon him, which was this time the accident is not chemicals but a freakish scar that made it look like a smile on his face. With this deformation just like the comic book Joker this one decided he looked like a clown, and put on make up, and made a clown ensemble: the purple, green, and orange look. Not only that he put on the red lipstick and black as well, though yes the difference is that he put on the white and the green hair as well. Yet he still has a deformation that makes him stand out in his own eyes, so because of this event he feels he needs to look like a clown, for what ever reason that may be, we will never know, its the Joker, he is truly and unknown in so many ways.


Yet again it seems to me that Nolan has the core of the character, yes he made one twist on it, but still the results are the same.


Both Jokers:


A. Had an accident that caused some type of deformation.
B. Both felt they must of looked like a clown in their own eyes.

1. C.They both created the clown ensemble around their deformations.

Though I know some see it differently and that is fine. But to me Nolan contained the core of the Joker, in why he does what he does, and why he looks like a clown. Though the approach is different the results in some way are the same.


Though I know some people go well, a scar is not as deforming as a chemical bath. Well, I say “untrue” to that. People think scars are so easily fixed by plastic surgery, well they are not, besides TDKR why doesn't Two-Face right away turn around and get plastic surgery? Because its deeper then that, its not just because they physical deformation they are freaks, but the Joker is also a freak because of his mind, and the way he thinks. He is a sociopath he does not follow norms.


Technically if the Joker wanted to he could cover up being perma-white, with make up just as Joker did in B89, if he truly wanted to fit in. But he does not, the Joker does not fit in because he wants to be a freak. And he just adds to it by creating an clown ensemble.


And to me the scars in TDK are not just for visual alone. They are visuals in the sense that Nolan decided it to be the deformation process, yet on top of that, they are the deformation that sends the Joker over the edge, and making him, or having him dawn the clown persona. So the scars and the perma-white are both in a way two different deformations yet they achieve the same person we know as the Joker. In principle.


So in final words as I see it the Joker in TDK, and the Joker in the comics though they have a huge alteration, still achieve the same character, and characteristics of one another. I wrote this because some of the fine gentlemen on this board maybe wonder why I am completely fine with a make-up Joker. And this is because I see it this way. That they are both the Joker, and besides one deviation they both are the same character that we know and love.

This is just how I view it.

that pretty much exactly how i feel about it...

 

[FhFgJg]

Ok? I JUST said that.

Many of the things you found in BB don't actually exist in real life, but are based on prototypes or existing objects. Just stretched a bit to fit the story's needs.

In the same vein, permawhite is an extension of skin bleach, which does exist in various forms.

Understand?


All you're doing is repeating yourself. I know your position on the subject. I'm asking WHY you think this is so, considering what I just explained about Nolan's hyperrealism and the audience's previous reactions to a live-action Joker.

I do not believe many would accept it without question because it is a near impossible feat to accomplish.

Let's look at the hyperreality of Nolan's universe:

1) Scarecrow wears a mask and sprays a hallucinogenic toxin into people forcing them to go nearly insane with fear. This is a stretch, but studies have shown that PCP induces very similar effects....

2) Microwave emitters, we've discussed this...it is possible even if one on a BB scale is not existant right now...smaller scale ones prove it possible to implement.

3) Batman and his costume....this is all things he bought and considering if you had a billion dollar budget...it would be possible.

Now are all these things very improbable? ABSOLUTELY. but are they are improbable as seeing a guy with perfect white skin, red lips, and green hair? No. That's where i think the audience would say....give us an origin or reason or this is just too far fetched. This is my opinion...and all i have to say on the matter honestly. Ridicule me or not, skeptics would exist.

 

[JayTee]

Gotham city is real too.

 

[Superman4ever]

I find the fact that the man who becomes the Joker takes on this persona himself VERY interesting. In the comics/B'89, a man came out of a chemical bath with a completely clownish appearance and said..."Der, I'm da Joker now!" Now, I love that origin, and I don't dislike the perma-white aspect at all, but that's the Joker in a nutshell, without delving into all of the other psychological issues and all that.

In TDK, however, this man's face is scarred somehow across the mouth. This event, similar to the chemical bath, must have put this man straight over the edge. With his twisted smile, he takes on the persona of the Joker, but creating the clownish image himself, rather than having it completely bestowed upon him. The comic and TDK versions only truly lack similarities in their appearances, but their "origins", and the ideas behind them, are very close. The Joker from the comics is perma-white, and can never change that, just as TDK has perma-scars, which will never fade. And just as the Joker loves his ghastly white appearance in the comics, it appears TDK Joker loves his scars, otherwise he would seek a surgical solution.

So, in conclusion, I don't mind the change, because the heart of the character is still there. What makes it even more interesting for me is that the Joker's makeup essnetially becomes his new face. He never takes it off and lets it rot on him until it nearly looks permanent. However, he did remove it to impersonate the police officer, but I don't see that as being much different from the Joker putting on flesh-colored make-up to impersonate or blend in the comics or B'89. As I said, they look different, but the principle behind them remains the same.

And in response toone of nickyg's points, the Joker loves people looking like him. If he could, he would turn the whole world into a bunch of deranged clowns. That's why in the comics he has his Joker venom, and why his goons commonly wear clown masks. This remains the same in TDK, with Joker painting his face all over Harvey Dent posters, his victims, etc. I don't feel that he can be replicated, because it's not only his appearance that defines him, but his actions.

I like that. A lot.

Also, there's nothing that states that Joker in this movie doesn't "evolve." What if his neurosis gets worse as the movie goes along, and with that bleaches his skin himself.

However, I don't mind that the Perma-white is not there.

 

[Crook]

I do not believe many would accept it without question because it is a near impossible feat to accomplish.

Let's look at the hyperreality of Nolan's universe:

1) Scarecrow wears a mask and sprays a hallucinogenic toxin into people forcing them to go nearly insane with fear. This is a stretch, but studies have shown that PCP induces very similar effects....

PCP induces hallucinations. Nothing fear-inducing, and certainly nothing that will scare you to death. Impossible feat to accomplish? A bit.

2) Microwave emitters, we've discussed this...it is possible even if one on a BB scale is not existant right now...smaller scale ones prove it possible to implement.

Huge difference between small-scale, and the one found in BB. Again, impossible feat to accomplish? Not completely, but highly improbable.

3) Batman and his costume....this is all things he bought and considering if you had a billion dollar budget...it would be possible.

...and it would look and function completely unlike the suit we saw in BB.

Now are all these things very improbable? ABSOLUTELY. but are they are improbable as seeing a guy with perfect white skin, red lips, and green hair? No. That's where i think the audience would say....give us an origin or reason or this is just too far fetched. This is my opinion...and all i have to say on the matter honestly. Ridicule me or not, skeptics would exist.

And who's to say some compromises wouldn't be made to make it more plausible? I've already mentioned skin bleach exists, so making skin white isn't exactly out of the question. Neither is hair turning green, as chloride does this already. Red lips everyone has agreed they can do without, and make it simply be an addition Joker applies himself.

So to recap: a bunch of unnamed chemicals that make someone chalk white and turns his hair green? Traits that already exist in skin bleach and chloride? Highly improbable, but certainly not impossible.

See how that works?

 

[JayTee]

This realism garbage is insane. I remember people saying a PURPLE SUIT isn't realistic on this website before we had any images.

 

[thewhyteman]

Ok? I JUST said that.

Many of the things you found in BB don't actually exist in real life, but are based on prototypes or existing objects. Just stretched a bit to fit the story's needs.

In the same vein, permawhite is an extension of skin bleach, which does exist in various forms.

Understand?


All you're doing is repeating yourself. I know your position on the subject. I'm asking WHY you think this is so, considering what I just explained about Nolan's hyperrealism and the audience's previous reactions to a live-action Joker.

Skin Bleaching doesnt turn the skin pure white. If it does then Im an idiot. But Id like to see a pic to prove it though. The whole idea that acid turns his skin a nice even white is ridiculous. Acid burns are nasty. They disfigure and discolor. I just can't understand why its so important to have the "perma"
to keep the character consistent.

I actually am quite fond of the idea that the Joker just rubs white on his face. The perma-white thing would be imposed on to him. More of like an accepted burden. But with applying make up just shows his madness with clarity. He chooses to become the persona. It's not a matter of fate. Thats why I think its so genius to have it done that way. I don't want to see the Joker as a tragic figure, pushed into insanity by events of life. I want to have zero empathy for him.

 

[FhFgJg]

PCP induces hallucinations. Nothing fear-inducing, and certainly nothing that will scare you to death. Impossible feat to accomplish? A bit.


Huge difference between small-scale, and the one found in BB. Again, impossible feat to accomplish? Not completely, but highly improbable.


...and it would look and function completely unlike the suit we saw in BB.


And who's to say some compromises wouldn't be made to make it more plausible? I've already mentioned skin bleach exists, so making skin white isn't exactly out of the question. Neither is hair turning green, as chloride does this already. Red lips everyone has agreed they can do without, and make it simply be an addition Joker applies himself.

So to recap: a bunch of unnamed chemicals that make someone chalk white and turns his hair green? Traits that already exist in skin bleach and chloride? Highly improbable, but certainly not impossible.

See how that works?

yeah, and i think the line b/w fantastical and reality is hard to draw with a big white piece of chalk. So i have to say i agree with you in many points, and disagree in some. but all in all, i can't disprove what you are saying. But i can't really say i wouldn't see people questioning it. especially movie critics...but that is their job i guess.

 

[The Mighty Wind]

I'd prefer if somehow he ended up being permawhite but I'm not going to lose too much sleep over it.

 

[TheBatman072]

I still have faith in Michael Caine's quote. Unless that was proven to be false.

 

[sv2]

I don't mind the make up for the movie, but I am annoyed somewhat that it seems he doesn't have any form of leprosy like Caine said. I thought the make up would be stuck on his face, like the jail pictures, which is why the police couldn't wash off his make up.

 

[TheBatman072]

I don't mind the make up for the movie, but I am annoyed somewhat that it seems he doesn't have any form of leprosy like Caine said. I thought the make up would be stuck on his face, like the jail pictures, which is why the police couldn't wash off his make up.

See, that's what I think. It looks like somebody's already tried to wipe it off his face. Some of it, the fresher make-up, came off, but the rest is stained onto his face.

 

[deathfromabove]

I still have faith in Michael Caine's quote. Unless that was proven to be false.

th one about him never taking his makeup off or the one about leprosy?

I don't mind the make up for the movie, but I am annoyed somewhat that it seems he doesn't have any form of leprosy like Caine said. I thought the make up would be stuck on his face, like the jail pictures, which is why the police couldn't wash off his make up.

he said it looked leprosy, but he never said it was.

 

[Ecstasy]

See, that's what I think. It looks like somebody's already tried to wipe it off his face. Some of it, the fresher make-up, came off, but the rest is stained onto his face.

There ya go.

 

[Katsuro]

For me, it's become less about backstory and more about aesthetics. I just dont think he looks nearly as cool with the smeared make-up as he does in those official photos where his make-up is perfect. icecsm16's avatar, and the other photos that were released with it, looked perfect. I'd love it if that's how he looked the whole movie, and if his neck, arms, hands, etc were white as well. I just think it looks better.

Addionally, that cop photo showed pretty much what I never wanted to see. A joker with normal skin and hair, who wasn't wearing make-up to look like that. I dont know if the Joker will get a trial scene in this movie, at one point the rumor was that he's the one who scars Harvey during his trial, but if it does happen, i'd rather him not look normal (albeit with scars) for that scene. Same goes for any scene of him in Arkham. I used to think it'd be awesome if the movie ends with a young, blonde psychiatric intern meeting him in his cell, but I think that scene'll be kinda lame if he just looks like he does in that cop photo.

 

[Sandouras]

I personally find the approach Nolan has taken to be rather interesting. Originally the make-up bothered me considerably, but I've gotten over it, mostly. The reason is basically because the look is very, very cool--I love the decaying, textured look to the Joker. I'm going to be perfectly honest, even if it means being ostracized by my fellow purists: I like the look of TDK's Joker as much as and possibly more than I like his look in the comics.

As I've explained in the past, Joker's appearance is part of a compulsion to expose undercurrents of violence in things ostensibly innocent. In the comics, he expresses this with a very clean-cut clown look, and it works. But the rotting, imploding look he has in TDK works well, too.

That said--there's no reason it needed to be this way. The idea that the classic look could not have worked is absurd, regardless of how much I like the new one. Likewise, there's no reason the look they have could not have been achieved with bleached skin. If Joker fell into a vat of chemicals and scrabbled out, that would give him a comparably uneven, blotchy look, and would be no less realistic than a magic microwave emitter.

Well said. I too love this new look they gave him. The permawhite comes after that. It could still be a result of a chemical bath, but i like it this way as well.

But most of all i think that Heath-Joker is the best looking Joker IMHO. If not one of the coolest looking villains ever.

I mean, look at my avy. Dont you just love this guy?

 

[nickyg641]

Skin Bleaching doesnt turn the skin pure white. If it does then Im an idiot. But Id like to see a pic to prove it though. The whole idea that acid turns his skin a nice even white is ridiculous. Acid burns are nasty. They disfigure and discolor. I just can't understand why its so important to have the "perma"
to keep the character consistent.

Skin bleaching doesn't turn skin pure white, but it is achievable to get something close to it. All it takes is a stretching of the truth, much like a Microwave Emitter would never exist in that capacity, and would fry every person and explode all metal within its range. They had to stretch the truth (quite a lot, if you think about what I just mentioned) to make it seem plausible. The atmosphere of the film does the rest. When the film treats it seriously, it's easier for an audience member to take it seriously.

That's really the only difference between BB and B'89, because, on the realism scale, if you think about it, they're really about the same. The difference is, BB treated these ridiculous concepts in a serious, gritty manner, setting the film in a more familiar, truer-to-life cityscape. B'89 set itself in a more stylized world, whereby the things within are more stylized.

Oh, and about that picture:

This is someone with vitiligo. All it would take is a stretching of the truth to get an audience to believe that a skintone like that was the result of a chemical. They don't even need to go into what chemicals, because it would really only be alluded to vaguely, with comments like "Whatever doesn't kill you simply makes you stranger."

Now, of course, compromises would have to be made to adapt it into Nolan's world. I'd have liked to have seen the Joker where he was permawhite, and had the chealsea grin, and added the green hair-dye, and red/black makeup. That way, you get the grittier visual of Nolan's Joker, and the concepts behind permawhite (I'll explain those below).

By the way, if you'd like to see a more realistic interpretation of permawhite, more fully than you see in the picture above, have a look at this:

It's mean to be a corpse's hand in that picture, which I think fits the Joker perfectly: the complextion of a corpse. The skin isn't pure white, either; it's vainy and uneven, a bit darker and greyer in some places. If the Joker were to be permawhite in Nolan's world, that^ would probably be how it would look.

I actually am quite fond of the idea that the Joker just rubs white on his face. The perma-white thing would be imposed on to him. More of like an accepted burden. But with applying make up just shows his madness with clarity. He chooses to become the persona. It's not a matter of fate. Thats why I think its so genius to have it done that way. I don't want to see the Joker as a tragic figure, pushed into insanity by events of life. I want to have zero empathy for him.

See, this is where I think you may be misinterpreting the character.

The Joker is not a tragic figure, not at all. He is one of the few villains that does not regret his deformity. Instead, the Joker sees it as a gift. He views it as the Universe's great joke, and he's been given the opportunity to share the punchline with others.

As Dirt_Like_Me said, he doesn't have to be the Joker, he isn't forced to be the Joker, he gets to be the Joker. It's who he is. He didn't decide it, he was simply "born" that way.

The man he was before is of no importance. For all intents and purposes, they were never the same person. The Joker was simply "born" like this, thrust into being as the monster he is. Thus, he is an "absolute".

With makeup, I just find it harder to get the "absolute" angle, because he's a man who makes a choice to become another person. To me, an absolute does not invent itself; it just is.

 

[Kaizer]

With makeup, I just find it harder to get the "absolute" angle, because he's a man who makes a choice to become another person. To me, an absolute does not invent itself; it just is.

Then again, you can always look at it from the angle of a transvestite/transsexual/trangender (whatever you may choose to call it). Most are saying they were "born into the wrong body" and therefore have to wear makeup, clothes and have surgery to become who they "truly" are. This could be the case with the Joker as well.

 

[nickyg641]

Then again, you can always look at it from the angle of a transvestite/transsexual/trangender (whatever you may choose to call it). Most are saying they were "born into the wrong body" and therefore have to wear makeup, clothes and have surgery to become who they "truly" are. This could be the case with the Joker as well.

You could, I suppose, but, IMO, I find that to be a weaker angle. I like the idea that the Joker came into being in one cataclysmic event, like the big bang.

Make up, scars, the whole "self-made" Joker, it implies a more gradual transformation.