Today in 1989...

[DocLathropBrown]

Actually, that's false. Nolan's movies are actually a cross combination of the 70's material and of some of the late 80's and early 90's work. More inspiration comes from classic material with Nolan than anything. I really don't see where and why you'd think he is strictly making his movie from a modern Bat comics angle. To be brutally honest, Nolan's film is the best thus far in trying in same way shape or form give credit and homages to ALL eras of the Batman mythos. Even down to little scenes such as the "pow, zap, and wham" sound being made on the piano by Bruce for entrance to the cave. But in terms of tone ... Nolan's film is heavily based in that 70's era feel.

And you think you're right because....?

I've been around kid, heard all of that. But the fact is that there's no adventure, mystery or mythic granduer in BB for me. BB is a gritty crime drama, just like the current comics, and it's just not fun. For me, the old franchise is fun to watch. Even BF and B&R, which are definitely inferior to BB. But I don't have any fun when I watch BB. Tonally, it's too gritty. There's no high-spirited adventure. The film feels too modern in addition to being heavily influenced by TLH, which they have admitted to be the primary inspiration.

And the piano making a "pow zap wham" sound? What have you been smoking? Your opinion that BB being superior to be a "brutally honest" fact is one thing, but you're reaching pretty damn far with that one.

There's nothing like someone who accepts another's opinions. It's stunning.

And by the way, just because I'm being sarcastic doesn't mean you need to start getting uncivil in return. You're a "newb" so don't act like one. Prove yourself to be able to take sarcasm. And you also shouldn't go around trying to prove longstanding members wrong on something, lest of all, their opinions and observations, as that's all my words had been before you butted in.

 

[El Payaso]

Even down to little scenes such as the "pow, zap, and wham" sound being made on the piano by Bruce for entrance to the cave.

SHARE!

 

[Bat Attack]

They will forever be compared and connected. Don't get mad, that's the way it will always be. Everyone is being civilized here, don't be a clown and add actual fuel to the fire. We're just discussing.

Why do you have to discuss Batman Begins in a thread about BATMAN (1989)? The only clown is you, moron.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Why do you have to discuss Batman Begins in a thread about BATMAN (1989)? The only clown is you, moron.

He didn't start it. Technically, I did. You're the assclown for getting worked up about it. You getting worked up about it will only lead to greater trouble.

"Think about the future!"

 

[Bat Attack]

I'm just in a bad mood today. Sorry.

 

[DX]

Nolan, Nolan, blah, blah, blah. This thread is about the original BATMAN film not NOLAN or Batman Begins! Gah!

You really don't like Batman Begins do you.

 

[Mr. LOL]

And you think you're right because....?

I don't think I'm right ... I know I'm right. It was explained ad nauseum leading up to the release of the movie, in various articles, interviews, etc. That the story, characterization of the film was heavily based off the Adams / O'Neil gritty urban realism of the 1970's Batman stories. Hell, the look, feel and tone of the film was damn near a replica of 1970's film making. Nolan noted French Connection, Superman TM, and Blade Runner as direct influences on the film. The whole look is that of a 70's movie. The foundation for Batman Begins story was multi-layered and built up between primary stories from the 70's such as: O'Neil's Ra's Al Ghul stories, Man Who Falls, and of course the landmark Batman: Year One story. Other minor influences included TLH, DKR, and even Burton's original Batman flick. But at no point in time was BEGINS ever based in characterization off the current Batman of the comics today. In fact, Bruce's characterization in BEGINS alone seperates him from the current comics. So yes, I don't know how or wear you came to the conclusion Batman Begins is so closely parallel to that of the characterizations, and feel of the current comics. BEGINS uses classic material as its primary inspiration. Mainly fromt he early 70's and max the late 80's. It was and is in no way attatched primarily to today's comics Batman. In fact, B89 and Returns characterization of Batman is closer to today's Batman then the Batman from BEGINS.

I've been around kid, heard all of that.

I'm sure you have, old man winter.

Which to me, if you've already heard that, makes me think how the hell could you be so wrong in your statement?

But the fact is that there's no adventure

False. Another error, per se? ...

I mean, when the movie starts off with Bruce traveling the world, learning ninjitsu skills from international terror organizations ... there is no adventure in that? I think you're being a tad too biased in your opinion, and/or assumptions.

mystery or mythic granduer in BB for me.

I wouldn't venture to say there is near as much of the above mentioned in BEGINS compared to B89 for example. I can agree with this statement. But it's also a catch 22. BEGINS has a much superior plot to B89, and there is actual character development, so in short the trade off would be losing some of the "mystery" or "mythic granduer" one acquires from watching a movie such as Burton's "BATMAN." Good point, Mr. Brownie.

BB is a gritty crime drama

Hmmm, not exactly. But it is much more so than previous movies. But this element has, and always was part of the character since his conception. He's Sherlock Holmes + Dracula. He was always meant to be a detective. What would the point of crime in this big city, if he wasn't a detective? He'd be going around beating up the innocent, haha. However the crime drama as you put it, doesn't go to the point where you make it sound as if the movie becomes completely sober and life-less. It is still Batman, and there was more than enough spectacle and wonder in Batman Begins.

just like the current comics, and it's just not fun.

Of course this statement is purely subjective, but I respectively disagree. There is plenty of "fun" moments in Batman Begins. It's just the movie Batman Begins balances everything out. There is fun moments, but it doesn't go over the top. So, the movie itself is very balanced. If you didn't find the ABSOLUTE BEST Batman car chase fun to watch ... I might find your tastes alittle suspect. If you found an absolute thrilling scene of Batman on fear gas, turning into a Bat-demon while harassing the Scarecrow a bland scene with no fun ... you might have something wrong with ya. hehe

Or how about when Batman calls on thousands of Bats to help him escape the clutches of a corrupt police force, with SWAT teams right on his tail. Or the scene with Batman taking on 8-10 terrorist ninjas, and absolutely DESTROYING all of them. You must have found alot of the source material to be completely boring then. But yeah, Penguins with exploding rockets would be much more exciting than any of the above.

For me, the old franchise is fun to watch.

Me too. Each in different ways. See, I have a wide variety of tastes.

Even BF and B&R, which are definitely inferior to BB.

Throw Batman Returns onto the list.

But I don't have any fun when I watch BB. Tonally, it's too gritty.

See, most adults find things like that more interesting as their tastes evolve with their age. BEGINS was primarily made for people from the age of 16 - 25. People who grew up with the Batman movies, but whose tastes have now evolved, as with their understanding of the real world, so seeing a Batman take on forces in a world recognizable to them is ... FUN. I'm sorry you took no joy in the movie.

There's no high-spirited adventure.

How so? Batman saving the city from city destroying terrorist organizations isn't high-spirited adventure? Then WHAT IS high-spirited adventure? Or do you mean "light-hearted adventure"? Cause if you mean the latter, then yeah ... you're right.

The film feels too modern in addition to being heavily influenced by TLH, which they have admitted to be the primary inspiration.

TLH wasn't the "primary" insiration. It was one of them, but hardly the "primary". Obviously the most obvious influence is "Batman: Year One" ... The film feels modern because you know it came out in 2005. I already explained Nolan's skills as a film maker, and approach to this film was actually much more alligned with 70's style film making.

And the piano making a "pow zap wham" sound? What have you been smoking?

Not smoking anything but "truth" blunts. It was there and it's to pay homage. Seriously, this was commented on alot for people who caught it intially after the film's release. Go watch an episode of Batman, and note the sounds of those three sequential sounds.

Your opinion that BB being superior to be a "brutally honest" fact is one thing

I didn't say that, I said BEGINS was much superior in terms of reflecting the entire history of the source material as a whole, compared to Burton's Batman films.

but you're reaching pretty damn far with that one.

Not at all. It's there, you just didn't notice. Someone from the production commented on it somewhere, I got to find it. I'll ask a question in the BEGINS forum regarding this...

There's nothing like someone who accepts another's opinions. It's stunning.

I wasn't not accepting your opinion. Just telling you that you were blatantly wrong that the Batman from BEGINS is based more so off the current comics. Because he isn't.

And by the way, just because I'm being sarcastic doesn't mean you need to start getting uncivil in return.

I wasn't then, and I wasn't now. These things don't bother me. I'm here to have fun. If you feel the need to get sarcastic and disrespectful, go ahead if you'd like.

You're a "newb" so don't act like one.

Hmmm, how exactly was I acting like a "newb"?!

Trivial things such as when and how new someone is to a message board, don't really matter. Especially in terms of the discussion at hand. Unless you're trying to use the reasoning that because I'm new, my opinion and facts mean less ... which would be an extremely arrogant, disrespectful and not to mention wrong approach towards someone who is just as credible as you are.

Prove yourself to be able to take sarcasm.

I don't have to prove anything to anyone. Especially on a superhero message board. Are you kidding me? hahaha

This statement is more like a run-away from confrontation than anything. Like you get a free pass to make sarcastic comments towards me, under the veil that I'm not allowed to respond because I'm "new" and have to "prove myself." LOL @ that. C'mon man, that's so cowardly.

And you also shouldn't go around trying to prove longstanding members wrong on something

I'm not "going around trying to prove longstanding memebers wrong on something" ... you were wrong, I wasn't having to prove anything, I was just pointing it out for YOUR own Batman knowledge. You being a long time member has nothing to do with it. When you're wrong, you're wrong. I was being totally civil. And I was really just trying to let you know.

lest of all, their opinions and observations, as that's all my words had been before you butted in.

Butted in? Man, you sound mad, buddy ... haha. It was nothing like that. There is no "butting in" with text posts on a message board. My words were just observations as well, and I was just letting you know what's really good. Don't take it personal, little buddy.

 

[Mr. LOL]

I'm just in a bad mood today. Sorry.

You need to apologize to me, broham ... haha not to that dude.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

I don't care about your psychoanalysis. Take it somewhere else. And furthermore, I don't care about how wrong you think I am. Show me some respect and get off my back.

And by the way, the way you responded is exactly how I knew you would. Treating our little tiff as some kind of holy war and launching into lengthy psychobabble about how every single sentence I type is wrong. That's childish and "newbish" and I wanted you to think about it before you did it. Think about what you've just done. Do you really think you don't come across as someone with something to prove?

I used to be the same way. It's a waste of time. My argument isn't so airtight because.... it's a message board. I'm stating my opinion and that's it. I don't care about my feelings being so strong that no one can disagree with them, that's why I'm snide, sarcastic and my arguments have holes in them. This isn't a court of law. So take your ego and quit. I can't argue with you because of your overwhelming egotisim, so I won't. No matter what I say, you'll be right. So the discussion between us is over.

And for the record, your words mean nothing to me.... my opinions haven't changed. I don't give a damn how wrong you think I am.

 

[The Joker]

I found Burton's Batman movies alot more entertaining to watch than Batman Begins. Not that I didn't like Begins, but I found Burton's Bat flicks to have much greater replay value.

 

[boywonder13]

i would'nt be born for another 3 years.....

 

[Mr. LOL]

I don't care about your psychoanalysis. Take it somewhere else.

...

So take your ego and quit.

I can't argue with you because of your overwhelming egotism, so I won't.

Who is the one psychoanalyzing?

?!?! Where did you get any of that from? If anything, you have the heir of supperiority through your entire post. Your entire rant was totally condescending at a personal level, where as I was strictly correcting your statement about a Batman movie. You even reduced arguments down to me being new, and you being established, as if that has anything to do with what we're talking about. It was an obvious attempt to disprove my statements not through argumentation ... but by belittling me based off how long I have been here. I didn't need to "psychoanalyze" in order to tell what you were trying to do there.

Show me some respect and get off my back.

I didn't disrespect you. My first comment towards you, all I said was that is wrong and in-accurate. You took it personal, and came at ME WITH DISRESPECT. You have this entire thing bass ackwards.

And by the way, the way you responded is exactly how I knew you would.

How did I respond? I certainly didn't disrespect you as a person and/or poster the way you did me.

Treating our little tiff as some kind of holy war and launching into lengthy psychobabble about how every single sentence I type is wrong.

You must not have read anything of what I wrote. This is hardly the case. I even agreed with you quite a few times. The only one taking this as "war" is you. I'm just talking Batman movies with you, and you keep veering off into personal accusations and put downs.

That's childish and "newbish" and I wanted you to think about it before you did it.

LOL @ this ... ... WOW ...

You were the one coming at me calling me "kid", and disrespecting me because I'm new. Even going on to cowardly protect yourself saying in not so many words ... "take my abuse b/c I think you're new and less than me, and if you do respond in similar fashion (which I didn't) ... then you are what I said you were and that is "childish" and/or a "newbie." C'mon man, who are you really fooling? It wasn't like the way you're spinning this at all. You were on the defensive b/c of what I said intially, and you've had your dukes up the entire time ... when I was just making a simple correction to your statement on the characterization of Batman in a movie.

Think about what you've just done. Do you really think you don't come across as someone with something to prove?

I might, however ... why don't you look in the mirror, read your post directed at me and ask yourself ... Did I come at this guy on a personal level? Was everything subject matter related, or did I jump the gun and get upset? When instead of just conceiting on a point I corrected you on, you took this to a completely different place. Do you really think you don't come across as someone who is condescending, and a tad over-protective?

And for the record, your words mean nothing to me.... my opinions haven't changed.

I wasn't trying to change your opinion. I was just correcting what you said, because it is wrong based off every fact on the movie we've been given since it came out in 2005. You were wrong, and instead of just responding to my long explanation on why you were wrong ... with "ok ... you might be right." You came at me as an individual. Have your opinion, I'm not taking it away from you and/or putting it down. What I was arguing about you with, wasn't opinion, it was fact. A fact you just had wrong. It was no big deal, I was just letting you know how it really was.

It's like me knowing Batman 1989 is based heavily off Bon Kane era stuff, but me saying I think it reflects the 50's and 60's era of Batman ...that isn't opinion. That would be me being flat out wrong. Especially when the creators of the project have gone on records saying what they based the film, characters and story off of. And it wasn't based off today's Batman comic.

I guess when others shar facts and/or opinions with you on these boards they mean nothing to you. So what's the point of you being here? Go type out your posts on Microsoft Word and read them to yourself. Otherwise, what's the point unless you don't care for the interaction on the topic?

I don't give a damn how wrong you think I am.

Once again, I don't think you're wrong. In the case of what I called you on, YOU ARE wrong. As for your opinion, you're right. Because everyone's opinions are right, and or valid.

 

[batbat_29640]

Actually, I'd say their level of inconsistancies are about even. However, depending on how you feel about what got changed, it may or may not be more damaging/annoying.

Nolan's changes bugged me more than what Burton did, obviously.

Thats where we are opposites. I can accept alot of the changes made in BB due to the seperation of the two series. Now the mispronunciation of Raz did bug the hell out of me, but every other character surounding BatmanBruce had a very important role to play that is much more remnicient of the source material that what we got before. Case in point . . . Gordon. There's one character that BB did a one over on B'89. That counts for alot to me! Lucius Fox. Another key player included in BB that wasnt even mentioned in the previous series.
btw wereyou the one I had the 'film analysis debacle' with?

 

[slave2catwoman]

The condo I live in sits on the same spot as the theatre I watched the 1989 Batman. When they tore it down, they put up this complex.

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

i would'nt be born for another 3 years.....

haha. Thats funny.

Also makes me feel old. Again. Thanks.


I really would like to see B89 re-released in theatres for its 20th anniversary so that you guys who didnt get a chance to see it on the screen, can. It was great. Captivating.

I was going thru one of my old scrap books reading the old 89 articles. You can really tell how inflation has gone based on the figures. Batman opened up on 2,193 screens and made 42.7 million in its 3 day opeing. That was a record. Now, thatd be considered mediocre, at best. It was also the first movie in histort to earn 100 million in its first week. Big summer blockbusters earn that the opening weekend.lol. I just find it a bit funny. We pay too much now for movie tickets!


Oh, and can we please keep the Burton/Nolan crap in another thread. This is supposed to be about the 89 opening.

 

[Mr. LOL]

They just recently played B89 on a big screen movie theatre by me. You have to do research, some theatres have specific nights where they replay old movies ... and you don't have to pay that much. I live in an expensive town, and I only had to pay $2. It's just more fun seeing these films on the big screen. Watching it I was immedietely transported back to childhood. B89 was my first movie I ever saw in a theatre. And it left mighty big shoes to fill in terms of matching the sense of wonder, I had for any movie since then.

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

That sounds very cool. Wish there were places like that around in my area. Every now and then there may be a Bogart film festival going on, thats about it.

 

[Mr. LOL]

Hey SHADOWBAT69, don't you have a great B89 collection? Care to post pics?

 

[SurfDUI]

Hey SHADOWBAT69, don't you have a great B89 collection? Care to post pics?

I got 1/2 of one, I got the 2 of the cereal boxes still (tasted like Capn' Crunch), and a bunch of generic pro-mo stuff...dammitt I need a scanner...and a home PC

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Thats where we are opposites. I can accept alot of the changes made in BB due to the seperation of the two series.

Tomato, tomat-o.

Now the mispronunciation of Raz did bug the hell out of me

Actually, from what I hear, that's how it's supposed to be pronounced. But it bugged me, too. I'm used to it being "Raish".

btw wereyou the one I had the 'film analysis debacle' with?

I think that was Cyrusbales. But I've gotten into big fights before, maybe it was.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

Once again, I don't think you're wrong. In the case of what I called you on, YOU ARE wrong. As for your opinion, you're right. Because everyone's opinions are right, and or valid.

Look, I apologize for blowing up at you. I shouldn't have. But you pointing out how you found me to be incorrect only led to an argument. An unpleasent one. You really can't go around doing that here. 95% of the time, it only ends up a fight. People are set in their ways, and don't want to be told they're wrong.

And with that said, I still stand by what I said. I find BB to be too much of a gritty crime drama and has little-to-none of the sweeping adventurous graduer that O'Neal (and later, Burton) brought us in the 70s. If that's what they were in-fact shooting for (which I don't buy), then they missed it completely. But then, maybe it's the leave-nothing-to-the-imagination script of Goyer's. It's like being in a college lecture for a class you don't like when I watch BB. It's not any fun, a few small scenes aside.

BB just doesn't "click" on my enjoyment meter. I'm sorry. If people don't like my reasons for saying so, I have nothing to say to that. That's just the way it is. BUT (and this is important) I am looking forward to TDK... I'm happy about it so far.

 

[SurfDUI]

And with that said, I still stand by what I said. I find BB to be too much of a gritty crime drama and has little-to-none of the sweeping adventurous graduer that O'Neal (and later, Burton) brought us in the 70s.

What about the third act w/ the runaway trainrail, that was kind of O'Neil-ish. Sweeping action, the goons, the conclusion that things aren't really back to normalsy yet. Yea it didn't delve(sp) into any detective work of the Batman, but really no live action film has.

I am looking forward to TDK... I'm happy about it so far.

You realize it will be just as, if not more dark than Begins right, I mean Joker's a stone killer.

 

[batbat_29640]

Actually, from what I hear, that's how it's supposed to be pronounced. But it bugged me, too. I'm used to it being "Raish".

Not to sound high and mighty or anything. But when Breyfogle did his tour for the MudPack arc I heard it from his own mouth that it was Raish. Also heard this from Dick Giordano, Denny O'Niel, Archie Goodwin<Was a HELL of a nice guy!!! RIP, all from their own mouths at various cons and such. Also Paul Levits pronounces it as such on the 2nd disc of BB.
Now I realise that my validity is questionable at best but when those guys say it's Raish . . . I believe it and ya can't convince me otherwise.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

What about the third act w/ the runaway trainrail, that was kind of O'Neil-ish. Sweeping action, the goons, the conclusion that things aren't really back to normalsy yet. Yea it didn't delve(sp) into any detective work of the Batman, but really no live action film has.

The third act is, indeed, much better. I don't hate everything from BB, but I don't enjoy the film as a whole.

And you forget, B89 showed Batman decode the Joker's formula and BF has Bruce figure out the Riddler's puzzles.

You realize it will be just as, if not more dark than Begins right, I mean Joker's a stone killer.

And I don't think that necessary. The Joker was dark enough in B89, just make him young and you've got a fine Joker. Padering to dorks who think darker = more adult isn't necessary, and could make Nolan miss the point of the character.

 

[SHADOWBAT69]

Hey SHADOWBAT69, don't you have a great B89 collection? Care to post pics?

Ill get some new pics up within the next couple days of my 89/92 stuff.