"Today is agood day to die...for me!"

[thealiasman2000]

In the comics that we currently have in my country, The Spectre decided that all magic must be erased from the DC Universe, and that all magical being must die.

But wait a minute, isn't The Spectre a god or something (I think he is an agent of divine wrath)? Aren't gods magical beings?

Thus, isn't The Spectre practically commiting suicide?

What, does he hate himself so much that he is gonna destroy himself?

 

[Sentry2005]

Uh... because God isn't magic, God is God. In the DCU the God that exists is the tradional Christian one, and that isn't magic. That's a being of infinite possibilities and limitless power. Magic has limits.

 

[thealiasman2000]

Remember Highfather Izaya and the New Gods?

If that God is THE God (ie. our God), then they shouldn't be other gods other than him, because they are false gods.

With the Catholic God it's like with Highlander: there can be only one.

 

[Sentry2005]

Remember Highfather Izaya and the New Gods?

If that God is THE God (ie. our God), then they shouldn't be other gods other than him, because they are false gods.

With the Catholic God it's like with Highlander: there can be only one.

The simple point of this arguement however is that the Spectre works for the tradional God of Christian belief. The New Gods are more of a Pantheon; No single one of them can re-constitute all of existance if they so wanted. The person Spectre works for is the DCU's creator, and actually could do that.

Of course, the obvious counter arguement is that Alex Luthor in Infinite Crisis has been creating new worlds to try and find the perfect world. However he wasn't creating life from nothing, he had building blocks. The idea behind the Christian God is that he creates life from nothing.

The New Gods, personally, I wouldn't define as true gods. I mean, Superman can go toe to toe with Darkseid, a supposed God. I think they're better identified as beings in the upper limit (Perhaps exceeding) of Meta-Human power levels.

The original question was doesn't the Spectre's war on magic effectively mean suicide; The Spectre is an aspect of God, not a magical being. He is more correctly to be seen as an aspect of God given existance; in this case Wrath. It's also worth mentioning that the Spectre was under the influence of another (Eclipso) during this entire crusade against magic, and not of sound mind. As soon as God got involved, he was bounded back to a human host.

Now, i'm not sure on this point (maybe someone else can help out) but wasn't Eclipso magical in nature? Or is he/she extra-terrestrial in orgin? Oh, and was Spectre's quest to destroy magic, or destroy magics order and structure? I forget... have to go re-read day of vengeance tonight me thinks.

 

[thealiasman2000]

God clearly says in the Bible (althought with fancier words): "If I exist in this world, there no other gods but Me. I am the one and only. Any other god in my presence is a false god".

The New Gods flat out shouldn't exist, let alone have any superpowers, if the DC God is OUR God.

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

God clearly says in the Bible (althought with fancier words): "If I exist in this world, there no other gods but Me. I am the one and only. Any other god in my presence is a false god".

The New Gods flat out shouldn't exist, let alone have any superpowers, if the DC God is OUR God.

gawd you sound like that chong guy in shh community.

 

[Sentry2005]

God clearly says in the Bible (althought with fancier words): "If I exist in this world, there no other gods but Me. I am the one and only. Any other god in my presence is a false god".

The New Gods flat out shouldn't exist, let alone have any superpowers, if the DC God is OUR God.

Um... I alread answered that... they AREN'T gods... they are just REEEEALLY powerful meta's. So yes, they are false gods.

 

[yenaled]

The God in the DCU isn't the God written about in the Bible. Where in the Bible does it say "and I send down the Spectre to punish Vandal Savage for he was a sinner".

It doesn't because they are both different fictional worlds, in the same way that what applies in the DCU doesn't apply to Marvel comics.

 

[The Question]

God in the DCU, (or The Source, as it is more commonly refered to) is the source of all things. Including magic. The Spectre is an agent of The Source's wraith. He is made up of magic.

 

[Sentry2005]

God in the DCU, (or The Source, as it is more commonly refered to) is the source of all things. Including magic. The Spectre is an agent of The Source's wraith. He is made up of magic.

That makes zero sense. Why would The Source (didn't know that name... pretty groovy) who can make anything out of nothing choose to create his wrath agent out of magic. That just actually sounds dumb to me.

Logistically you would think that he would just make his wrath solid. I always figured it was bonded to a human soul in order to give it perspective... I mean, something made out of Wrath is going to be one minded, and target pretty much anything. I figured the soul it was grafted to grounded it.

 

[The Question]

That makes zero sense. Why would The Source (didn't know that name... pretty groovy) who can make anything out of nothing choose to create his wrath agent out of magic. That just actually sounds dumb to me.

Logistically you would think that he would just make his wrath solid. I always figured it was bonded to a human soul in order to give it perspective... I mean, something made out of Wrath is going to be one minded, and target pretty much anything. I figured the soul it was grafted to grounded it.

The Spectre is solid. When it wants to be. And, don't think of the source as a person. Think of it as a force. A force that is, in many ways, a little bit of everything there is in the universe. That's why it has an agent of wraith along with agents of redemption. Because it is wraith and redemption at the same time. It represents the ultimate balance in the universe. And yes, the Spectre is grafted to a human soul to ground it to a set of morals besides "kill stuff".

 

[Lackey]

gawd you sound like that chong guy in shh community.

just to clue you in... that guy was kidding.

 

[Lackey]

God clearly says in the Bible (althought with fancier words): "If I exist in this world, there no other gods but Me. I am the one and only. Any other god in my presence is a false god".

The New Gods flat out shouldn't exist, let alone have any superpowers, if the DC God is OUR God.

The God of the DCU is "based" on the Judeo-Christian God, but they're not the same. So while the Christian God doesn't allow you to worship false idols, the DCU God has allowed this and even allows those lesser gods to actually exist.

 

[LibrarianThorne]

And don't forget, we've never seen DC's God.

And The Source isn't God. Neither is the Presence or the Omega Effect. All are aspects of DC's Supreme Being, who resides in the Primum Mobile. Much about DC's God can be found in the Sandman vol. 4 and Mike Carey's Lucifer.

 

[The Question]

I always thought that The Source, the Presence, and God were all one in the same. As is Rama Kushna from Deadman. Different names for the same thing. Or, the different functions of the same thing.

 

[Sentry2005]

Without reading Sandman (which i'm starting tomorrow ) I have to say, I prefer the way they handle God (according to LT any hoo), by the sounds of it at least

 

[RockSP]

I always thought that The Source, the Presence, and God were all one in the same. As is Rama Kushna from Deadman. Different names for the same thing. Or, the different functions of the same thing.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I look at it. In real life as well...different names for the same thing.

 

[Lackey]

Or, the different functions of the same thing.

yeah, that's the way I understand it... different functions or aspects of the Creator.


found this on wikipedia, pretty interesting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DC_cosmic_entities

 

[BlackOpsTengu]

Just to point this out, there are in the Bible, "other gods" small g. Both angels and humans are known as gods or sons of God. Technically speaking, going by a correct translation and constrast of what Jesus said, humans are actually higher on the totem pole than angels, and stronger, in an uncorrupted state.

So, other 'gods' beings of great power can exist in the DCU, but they can never be OMNIPOTENT, that is, posessing ALL power.

 

[The Question]

Exactky. The closest any of the New Gods come to this is Darkseid, since his Omega Effect has theoritically unlimited range and a wide variaty of uses. And even still, there's many a thing he can't do.

 

[wiegeabo]

I was about to agree that Spectre is not a magical being, until I remembered Alice. She has the ability to steal and use magical powers. And she did so with the Spectre.

Now, since the Spectre was powerless, but still there, he's not an entirely magical being. So destroying magic wouldn't kill him, just eventually leave him powerless. (And he'd probably make his magic the last he destroyed, if he had been thinking straight, which he wasn't, or else he probably wouldn't have gone after magic in the first place.)

 

[batnkevlar]

Yeah, I don't think the God in the DCU is the Biblical God, I think he's similar...

 

[BrianWilly]

In the comics that we currently have in my country, The Spectre decided that all magic must be erased from the DC Universe, and that all magical being must die.

But wait a minute, isn't The Spectre a god or something (I think he is an agent of divine wrath)? Aren't gods magical beings?

Thus, isn't The Spectre practically commiting suicide?

What, does he hate himself so much that he is gonna destroy himself?

Did you read the story? Not saying that in a sarcastic way or whatever, I'm just curious 'cause the answers were spelled out very clearly in "Day of Vengeance."

The Spectre was without a host during his "crusade" and was borderline insane, operating purely on the principles of vengeance without much reason behind it. Without a host, he's not really a person, just a force. A sentient force, but a force nontheless. Thus Eclipso, in the body of Jean Loring, was able to literally seduce him into thinking that all magic was the source of all evil. Not just that magic is evil, but that magic is evil's origin.

And, actually, he did understand that he himself was a creature of magic. He knew that this was a suicide mission and that after he destroyed all other magic, he would have to destroy himself as well. And he accepted that gladly, since as long as the world was free of evil then there's no need for a spirit of vengeance anyway.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Brian said what I was going to say. The Spectre knew he'd destroy himself in the process and didn't care. He was so singularly driven to destroy magic that his own death was an acceptable loss.

Exactky. The closest any of the New Gods come to this is Darkseid, since his Omega Effect has theoritically unlimited range and a wide variaty of uses. And even still, there's many a thing he can't do.

I would think Takion's closer to omnipotence than Darkseid, since he's directly plugged into the Source.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Thus, isn't The Spectre practically commiting suicide?

What, does he hate himself so much that he is gonna destroy himself?

In Day of Vengance the Spectre said to Eclipso that once all magic was destroyed he would do so because his mission to rid the Earth of evil would be over and there would be no point for him to exist anymore not because he hated himself.