The Flash Tom Cavanaugh IS Harrison Wells/Eobard Thawne/Reverse-Flash

[Bren]

Harrison Wells as Barry Allen from the Flashpoint timeline. Somehow figures out saving 'his' Mom (and other things like our Barry losing his powers) will lead to The Flash not being there in the future. Wells used the yellow suit, 'became' the Reverse Flash to ensure 'he' (our Barry) becomes the Flash, stays the Flash, and the 'better' timeline survives.

I mean, Thomas Wayne turned out pretty hectic hard in that timeline,so could powerless 'Barry'.

Why does he look different/older than our Barry and the Gideon pictures? Because he was powerless, lived a different life, had facial reconstruction knowing he'll be meeting himself in the past blah blah blah

Do I think the above is true?
No. But it could have been interesting... Regardless, Wells is a fantastic character.

 

[Cain]

"What is Harrison's persona to the Reverse-Flash? Will these good things keep happening? It gets a little complicated, and I think that's good," said Cavanagh.

"I think a lot of the speculation has been, what I've encountered in social media, 'Is he good or bad?' I understand that, but honestly, in this iteration, it isn't that simple. It can't be that simple. You want Barry to succeed, then you can't just paint Reverse-Flash as bad, because Harrison and Reverse-Flash are responsible for helping Barry achieve his potential. And the reason that happens is, that helps Reverse-Flash achieve his potential.

Eggs get broken along the way, certainly that's bad, but at the same time, there's complications to it. How do you sustain the Harrison Wells persona as the Reverse-Flash persona gets unveiled further? I think that's interesting. Does he just disappear? Well, no, he doesn't -- why doesn't he? That's all tied in, organically so."

 

[Herolee10]

The Big Twist involving Wells's character is that he's revealed, in the end, to be...

 

[misjuevos]

Yeah, I remember Multiplex died. We are talking about the RF, though. Perhaps he got the sample and moved too fast to see.

Didn't they make a clone replica in star labs, then it got activated by the host and Joe shot him in the head. So star labs has the blood, they got it from Barry's suit. I don't think Wells is using this power though, but that is how he would have gotten the blood.

This is from the wiki on Professor Zoom

Spoiler

Professor Zoom is able to move and travel at super-human speeds. Professor Zoom can travel at speeds faster than the speed of light, deliver many different types of blows a second, run on water, create cyclones, and vibrate his molecules to pass through solid objects. Essentially he has all the same powers as The Flash or other speedsters.

In The Flash: Rebirth, it is discovered that when Zoom duplicated the incident that granted Barry Allen his powers, he created a negative Speed Force by corrupting the positive version of it. Through this Speed Force, he also has the ability to create multiple after-images like Hunter Zolomon, the modern day Zoom, and, unlike The Flash and other users of the original Speed Force, can travel through and alter time, and can erase people from existence (Flash cannot change the past without dramatic consequences). He paradoxically exists backwards in time.[volume & issue needed]
In the events leading up to Flashpoint, Professor Zoom has developed numerous powers including the ability to absorb other people's memories and experiences, change his age, and drastically alter time

So the writers could be using this, or an amalgam of the different reverse flashes. Anyway, I can't wait to see more reverse flash and time travel, not to mention Grodd.

 

[The Shape]

As someone who does subscribe to the theory that Harrison Wells is a future Barry, I'm going as far as to say that he went back in time just to make sure Barry becomes the Flash. What I suspect is that Harrison Wells is not only an older Barry Allen from the future, but a future version of Barry Allen from the original timeline from before the original Reverse Flash killed Barry's mom. That he, during his fight with the original Reverse Flash, he not only killed the original Reverse Flash (hence why he has the suit) but, because their fight played havoc with his super speed, he wound up stranded in the past.

Yeah, no. Why would you even want that to be the case?

 

[Rowsdower!]

Wells is clearly Barry and he went back in time and killed his own mom and framed his dad in order to motivate his younger self to become a hero.

 

[cyclone]

I'm really surprised there's genuinely some speculation that Wells is an older/future Barry. No. Just no.

From the future; yes.
Stuck in the past; assuming yes.
Descendent of Eddie; quite possibly

But a future version of Barry, who looks nothing like Barry, and we're assuming future Barry duels with HW/RF in the past and sees RF kill his mum (while saving his younger self), and we know that future Barry was in that room 14 years ago, and still facially looked like current Barry. Plus 2024 Flash (via the newspaper article) facially looked like current Barry. So Wells = Future Barry? Not on your nelly.

 

[DrCosmic]

If Wells is future Barry:

- Why would he care about Crisis. He already knows he comes out okay.
- Why would he be concerned about the Flash disappearing from history. He already knows he comes out okay.
- Why would he be surprised by enemies if he's been through this, or anything like this, before.
- Why would he have to look up Oliver Queen

Just based on what we've seen, if Harrison is Barry, he's a Barry that's lived an almost completely separate timeline from the one we've seen on the show. It also comes with some strange implications. If Harrison Wells is Barry Allen:

- Are we saying that Barry at some point loses his speed, and tries to get it back with various other means.
- Are we saying that Barry went back to kill his mother so that he could get super speed powers?
- Are we saying that Barry never got with/lost his lady (Iris? Caitlin? Felicity? Patty Spivot?) And ended up with some other woman when he came to the past?
- Are we saying that Barry refers to himself affectionately as Barry while looking at himself on a hidden camera?
- Are we saying that Barry Allen ominously says he's been waiting hundreds of years for the particle accelerator explosion when it's really been, like 30?

And the coup de grace:

- Are we saying that Cisco did not consider adult Barry's blood a match for Dr. Wells, who is another adult Barry Allen?

It makes for a fascinating series of moral questions but Dr Wells = Barry Allen doesn't seem to be the way the show is actually headed.

 

[MoonLight]

If Wells is future Barry, Then the man he has hated for fourteen years is himself. I don't think Wells is Barry.

If Wells/RF got stuck in the past, Did Barry go back to the future and just left a stronger Reverse flash in past to fight a younger inexperienced Barry?
even though it seems like Wells is helping Barry so far.

 

[Dark Raven]

What if it was Harrison Wells who saved young Barry and wasn't trying to kill Barry's mother but save her? What if somehow future Barry went crazy and Wells was trying to stop him but failed?

So rather than future Barry failing to save his mother, he actually succeeded in his mission to kill her.

Or perhaps Barry and Wells went back in time twice and the first time round Bath saved his mother but that caused him to cease to exist, so Wells went back to fix it and kill his mother and save Barry so he could become the Flash.

After all, Wells said to the general that he always protects his own. Maybe he went back to kill Barry's mother to protect Barry.

 

[Batmannerism]

To the "Wells is future Barry" theorists, why have a character whose last name is
Thawne if the Reverse Flash is going to be Barry ? Hmmmmm ? Sorry and folks, I think it's pretty clear that Wells is going to be Eobard Thawne (and Eddie his ancestor). I also don't buy the "Two Reverse Flashes" theory, that's just overly complicated and unnecessary - I mean, the scene of RF beating up Wells is easily explicable, the guy is literally fast enough to appear to be in two places at once.
If I'm wrong I'll eat those words, but I just can't see the future Barry angle being credible.


Personally, I like the portrayal of Wells as RF ( I mean, clearly Wells is a psuedonym)
because we have a little sympathy for his character, well so far anyway.

IN the comics RF is a pretty much an irredeemable psychopath, sort of the Flash's equivalent of the Joker. He's not a likeable character at all, whereas Wells is actually
helping Barry - although Im sure we all know that this is for self-serving reasons.

Anyway, I like the spin on the character so far, perhaps I prefer villains who are slightly sympathetic ( although there's a lot to be said for villains who you just can't wait to see get their comeuppance).

So sorry folks, can't agree with you that Wells is future Barry but if I'm proven wrong I will apologize and eat my words.

I supsect it's more along the lines of Wells being trapped in a predestination paradox that relates to his travelling back in time.

My theory thus far, which fits in with what many others have said:

Wells travelled back in time, using his superspeed, and fought a future version of Barry, during which killed Nora Allen was killed. When that future Barry travelled back to his own time Wells's powers failed and he was stuck there...or something similar to that.
Maybe he's stuck in a predestination paradox or time loop and is trying to break free.

What his motivation for time travelling in the first place was... I suspect that's not as simple as erasing Barry from history ( as that would gate his own existence, and you would think that a genius like Wells would probably be able to figure that out).

Also, Wells seems to be a guy who has larger plans than just a personal vendetta against Barry (particularly when he needs Barry to maintain his powers).

However it turns out, I don't think the writers have put a foot wrong with the Wells/RF sub-plot so far. Looking forward to the upcoming time-travel. Cheers

 

[Richard Grayson]

What if Wells killed Future Barry after killing his mom? Might explain why there isn't an older Barry around. In the comics, killing Barry isn't enough for Thawne. He wants to completely destroy him

 

[Dark Raven]

Maybe in the original timeline, Wells killed both Nora Allen and young Barry, and the Flash ceased to exist, which is why he disappeared in the future. But an alternate older Barry travelled back and saved his younger self because he had to make a choice between the two, albeit a reluctant one. So it's not that he is predestined to fail, but that he has in fact succeeded in changing history, because he saved the younger version of himself.

So what present Barry Allen is experiencing now is actually an altered history where he does exist and not one where he never lived because of his death at the hands of the Reverse Flash.

 

[The Shape]

What if Wells killed Future Barry after killing his mom? Might explain why there isn't an older Barry around. In the comics, killing Barry isn't enough for Thawne. He wants to completely destroy him

 

[Batmannerism]

For the avoidance of doubt......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gDm_n7r-So

Is there still doubt ?

Also, down here Tv stations have an annoying practice of playing the credits of one show on a smaller section of the screen, while the start of the next show begins - as such, this clip is he first time I've heard the Flash end credits theme
in its entirety ( which I realise is part of the regular background music) and I have to say, it's great - really suits the show.

Maybe in the original timeline, Wells killed both Nora Allen and young Barry, and the Flash ceased to exist, which is why he disappeared in the future. But an alternate older Barry travelled back and saved his younger self because he had to make a choice between the two, albeit a reluctant one. So it's not that he is predestined to fail, but that he has in fact succeeded in changing history, because he saved the younger version of himself.

Hmmmm, complicated. I think it depends on which rules they apply to time travel - that either:

- that time is immutable you can't change the future by travelling into the past, rather you just become part of the timeline and you end up causing the thing you went back to prevent

OR if you do travel back into the past you create an alternate timeline that's separate from the one you came from

OR if you travel back into the past you create a timeline that replaces the timeline you came from, and changes everything except you.

OR..... there are plenty of variations on those themes.

Personally, I doubt that the battle at the Allen's house involved the death of Barry - rather that Barry ends up saving his younger self.
( I subscribe to the first explanation, that while you can try to change the past you probably end up being part of it - unless you make a really major change.... but really who knows ? )

Anyway, I love where this storyline is going and I'm looking forward to seeing where it heads next !

 

[Loki882]

I'm wondering if Nora's death was even intentional at this point? I'm starting to think that maybe it was an accident.

 

[Batmannerism]

And this..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odRXOGW1I5g

pretty much answers the queries about how he could be in two places at once,
which I found it weird that people struggled with. Ah well.

 

[bjavor]

I hope they find a way for Wells to stay on the show, I quite like him.

Also dispite everything I don't really see him as evil and a traditional villain just yet. Sure, he has killed people. Which makes him determined, perhaps desperate and quite obviously willing to do whatever it takes. But so far he has only killed when he did not see any other choice in order to protect Barry and through him his own plan. If he were simply evil, he'd just kill people for fun or would have some rediculous master plan to either destroy the world or just Barry etc. I don't believe that is his plan. As other have put it, he's probably trying to escape either being stuck in the past or some sort of predetermined future...

Also, so far I'm questioning what his motivation for killing Nora would be to begin with (except maybe the one below), and I still expect some sort of twist and/or big revelation concerning the events of her death. So I would not be surprised if he was not the killer...

On the other hand:

Let's say the speed force is somehow generated by Barry. (Sorry I'm not familiar with the comics lore.) Wells cannot generate it, but he can somehow absorbe and make use of it. Because of this his capabilities are in some way limited by Barry's own capabilities. I think in the last episode we've established that the way to travel in time will be for them to "run so fast as to punch a hole in the time-space continuum"... Wells wants to travel back into the future, but he can't until Barry's capabilities reach that point. That's why he's been trying to push him to become faster from day one...

As for the murder, let's assume in the normal course of history Barry's capabilities would have manifested themselves much later and due to different circumstances. Wells does not want to, or cannot afford to, wait that long to regain his ability to time travel. So what he has been working on for all the time is to advance Barry's development ahead of time. That would explain his motivation for the murder, assuming he thought that would bring Barry about faster. In addition that may also explain something that they hinted on now at least twice: He may have caused the accelerator explosion himself on purpose...

 

[DrCosmic]

And this..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odRXOGW1I5g

pretty much answers the queries about how he could be in two places at once,
which I found it weird that people struggled with. Ah well.

Nah, there was an impenetrable forcefield before, if you'll recall.

Time travel, which we already know he has done and will do again, answers that much better.

 

[bjavor]

Nah, there was an impenetrable forcefield before, if you'll recall.

Time travel, which we already know he has done and will do again, answers that much better.

In the teaser for the next eposide(s)

Spoiler

Cisco appears to be looking at a recording of the RF behind the force field when he makes some realization about how Wells has deceived them. So I think some kind of technical explanation such as a hologram or similar is more likely than time travel for that one.

 

[DrCosmic]

In the teaser for the next eposide(s)

Spoiler

Cisco appears to be looking at a recording of the RF behind the force field when he makes some realization about how Wells has deceived them. So I think some kind of technical explanation such as a hologram or similar is more likely than time travel for that one.

Maybe, but I think there being a red herring is a bit more likely than having them bust out some new important technology never to be used before or after.

 

[Batmannerism]

Nah, there was an impenetrable forcefield before, if you'll recall.

Time travel, which we already know he has done and will do again, answers that much better.

You could be right, but I'm not so sure about that for 3 reasons

1) the so-called impenetrable forcefield was set up by......Wells, so all we had was his say-so that it was impenetrable.

2) true, he has time travelled but currently we can assume he can't as his speed is highly unstable and prone to cutting out entirely. He would have had to do some pretty clever arranging to have a future self of his show up for that particular moment.
Until we know more about the mechanics of time travel within the context of the show I don't think this is the best explanation.

3) Actually, given the above two factors and in the promo the fact that we see cisco looking at the force-field set up in which RF is standing, and then the 2 images of Wells suggests to me that the simplest explanation is that it is indeed a hologram (as mentioned by bjavor) or Wells using his own incredible speed.

I'm not saying you're wrong, who knows you might be proven right, but I think the alternative explanation seems simpler. Anyway, we'll find out soon enough.

Also dispite everything I don't really see him as evil and a traditional villain just yet. Sure, he has killed people. Which makes him determined, perhaps desperate and quite obviously willing to do whatever it takes. But so far he has only killed when he did not see any other choice in order to protect Barry and through him his own plan. If he were simply evil, he'd just kill people for fun or would have some rediculous master plan to either destroy the world or just Barry etc. I don't believe that is his plan. As other have put it, he's probably trying to escape either being stuck in the past or some sort of predetermined future...

Also, so far I'm questioning what his motivation for killing Nora would be to begin with (except maybe the one below), and I still expect some sort of twist and/or big revelation concerning the events of her death. So I would not be surprised if he was not the killer...

Same page ! Although I suspect that Wells may have killed Nora accidentally (as suggested by Loki 882 ), or that she was an unintended casualty of his fight with the Flash at the Allen's house.

I too like that Wells seems to have different motivations to the comic version of RF, who just exists to mess with Barry (again, sort of the Joker-Batman relationship). Nice to have him as a character we almost like or sympathize with, it makes it easier to invest in the whole sub-plot.

Of all the plotlines in the story, the gradual reveal of Wells as RF has been the best - and a great plotline in terms of superhero stories in general.

Cheers.

 

[chamber-music]

I hope they find a way for Wells to stay on the show, I quite like him.

Also dispite everything I don't really see him as evil and a traditional villain just yet. Sure, he has killed people. Which makes him determined, perhaps desperate and quite obviously willing to do whatever it takes. But so far he has only killed when he did not see any other choice in order to protect Barry and through him his own plan. If he were simply evil, he'd just kill people for fun or would have some rediculous master plan to either destroy the world or just Barry etc. I don't believe that is his plan. As other have put it, he's probably trying to escape either being stuck in the past or some sort of predetermined future...

Wells turned on the Particle accelerator which he knew would explode. The accelerator killed a bunch of innocent people and gave many of the villains (and a couple of the heroes) superpowers to begin with.

Wells may believe what he is doing is for noble reasons but that doesn't change the fact he is directly and indirectly responsible for the death of many people.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

I'm really surprised there's genuinely some speculation that Wells is an older/future Barry. No. Just no.

From the future; yes.
Stuck in the past; assuming yes.
Descendent of Eddie; quite possibly

But a future version of Barry, who looks nothing like Barry, and we're assuming future Barry duels with HW/RF in the past and sees RF kill his mum (while saving his younger self), and we know that future Barry was in that room 14 years ago, and still facially looked like current Barry. Plus 2024 Flash (via the newspaper article) facially looked like current Barry. So Wells = Future Barry? Not on your nelly.

ok, here's a crazy theory...
but, what if the original future Flash wasn't Barry, but, Barry younger brother?

I was thinking why would RF choice that point in time to go back to kill Barry's Mom... an I thought what if he was going all terminator on her, what if she was pregnant/or was soon going to be, with another son who would become the future Flash, but since she was killed before he was born, that version of the Flash got erased from the timeline, but, Barry ended up following his fate instead, taking his place as the Flash

the blood sample could have match a siblings of Barry's (since Barry's blood would be the closest thing on file in the present, he'd be a match)

I did say it was a crazy theory

 

[KillerMcQueen]

In the teaser for the next eposide(s)

Spoiler

Cisco appears to be looking at a recording of the RF behind the force field when he makes some realization about how Wells has deceived them. So I think some kind of technical explanation such as a hologram or similar is more likely than time travel for that one.

I wonder if Cisco lied to Joe about the blood sample and the other sample matched Well's instead of not finding a match, and he starts investigating Wells on his own?