Revenge of the Fallen Transformers: ROTF User Review Thread

[DarknessOfDeath]

well I am 25 years old so... yeah. Having grown up in the 80s and 90s, Transformers for one was an awesome thing to watch on t.v.

 

[Episode29]

Well, these films are for teenage boys. Teenage boys love hot women.

That`s not really a good excuse for misogynistic potrayals of women.

 

[MadVillainy]

I dont know about Misogynistic but....
well I dont know how to describe it but I dont think misogynistic is the right word

 

[Spade]

Fixed. But point stands. There's something irresponsible and short-sighted at trumpeting this film as being a work of wonder for children's senses without thinking about the negative images it imparts to them.

I did? I remember saying I thought that the minstrel nature of the twin Autobots was reprehensible. I also said and still say that the imagery you speak of is not going to indelibly make their way into their consciousness. Eventually, time passes. They learn different philosophies, discuss racism and feminism and ideologies, and stop liking these films. I'm not trying to outright ignore the serious debate Bay's films spark in their depictions of race and opposing creeds. Even the jingoism goes too far. But none of what I'm currently discussing registers with the vast majority of kids, and- as I've said- they have 60-something years of their life to tackle those topics head-on, just like us. There should be no rush.

Furthermore, what sticks in their head is the more beneficial messages because it's presented to them in the form of characters that they can rally behind. Kids don't care about John Tuturro's buttocks or a crass joke involving wrecking balls. Ask most kids and they won't even remember most of the scenes that offended parents and those world-weary enough to see wrong present (which there is). They're drawn to the characters that impress upon them the most, and those main characters don't teach them anything like "skip out on your education," "beat women," or "rob other people blind."

Plus...not to put too much effort here on the parents, but if it did cause them some confusion on how the world works, how many minutes of discussion do you think it would take as they exit the theater for an adult to clarify? 5? Maybe 10. It takes me a sentence to tell my niece why she shouldn't be watching Jerry Springer. But it doesn't take the rest of their lives. If it matters to said adult, it wouldn't be time wasted, either.

Name me one positive female role-model in this film for young female viewers to relate to or aspire to be like?

I don't think I could name one positive male role model for kids to relate to, let alone female. Sam, maybe, but he's more of a cypher. Optimus is a robot that acts like a man. The Twins are robots that act like goofballs. The Arcee triplets are heroic like the rest of the Autobots, but don't get to make much of an impression. Is the Alice robot a bad example for girls based on how she acts in order to get to Sam? Yeah, but she's also a killer Decepticon spy. I kinda think that's a bad example for anyone. Sam's mother is just that...a mom. Overbearing and indecipherable, like most kids think their parents are.

Maybe Mikaela? She's one-dimensional, but so is Shia out of the point I already cited. I'm trying to remember a scene where she's an outright horrible example of what a woman should be like and one's not springing to mind. She tends to forgive her man for being a bumbling idiot do-gooder and adores him for his personality rather than his dashing good looks, going to Egypt and back for his sake. She's not dependent on rescue or even Sam's companionship, so there's not an issue of empowerment, either.

Bay shoots Fox in provocative poses, but as a guy raised by the opposite gender primarily, I've never heard a girl tell me that was an issue in a film we watched. If anything, most kinda enjoy that element of movies. Women have different definitions of "male appreciation," but that's different from person to person. Some like the idea of males taking note of them. Others think it's demoralizing. But is any of that relevant to girls in particular? In my experience, no. They mostly take note that the actress looks pretty and giggle at the sentimental stuff. It doesn't impress. Mikaela isn't supposed to be the one that's set for imitation, nor are half of the "male" actors (male in quotations, as one might include the Cybertronians there).

Plus, I love that you feel that taking people's minds of their troubles by way of explosions and shrapnel is a difficult and profound accomplishment. I guess that makes Roland Emmerich and McG worthy of the Spielberg/Lucas crown as well. Rich storytelling and imaginative story-telling is a far loftier and worthy cause than blowing a building/car/robot to hell and back.

Emmerich and McG lean their films towards a more mature audience. Thus, they invite any criticism towards them from that audience. How they tell their stories is a matter of preference in what one wants out of a film; personally, I don't enjoy what they put out. I'm not trying to say Bay's Transformers films are the best children's movies ever, either. That'd go to most of what Pixar creates. Pixar combines good production value with a powerful narrative that doesn't have to speak down to kids. But should we simply leave out everything more basic because it's not as intellectual for us?

Look at the history of film. What does it entail? We see that people popularized the medium by going to watch Charlie Chaplin's antics. Was the theme of class warfare always overt? No, nor was it the point. The thrust of Chaplin's films is the comedy, as displayed through tried-and-true writing tropes: the tramp, the ruling social class, and their ridicule over the course of his adventure. They tapped into something primal, not purely intellectual. Did the medium evolve? Sure. Moon's out in theaters right now grabbing at audience members with food for thought on a low budget. That's admirable to me, as someone who appreciates the medium's advancement. But there's always going to be a place for that which operates on a mostly visual and visceral level. It lies in art films that want to push how we perceive film, and in the kids movie that wants to appeal to that less developed stage we go through on the way to our "loftier" appreciation of great complex works.

 

[bullets]

They really ****ed John Tuturro like he was a cheap ****.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

Give us time , we'll figure out a way to screw you guys up .

We don't really needed you're help for that. t:

 

[CelticPredator]

That`s not really a good excuse for misogynistic potrayals of women.

Teenagers by many tickets, and then fap later on. So goes the way of the world.

 

[hitmanyr2k]

They did have a good portrayal of the military industrial complex. Showing misogynistic depiction of Megan Fox isn't there fault , She is just that hot.



Michael Bay is a patriot.

Megan Fox reminds me of Tea Leoni from Bad Boys which kind of turns me off considering the way Tea Leoni looks now

 

[Figs]

Well, these films are for teenage boys. Teenage boys love hot women.

Don't forget about female criminals, Turturro even said it himself. "Criminals are hot!".

Most lulz worthy moment in the first film, that had me chuckling since it came out of nowhere. I wonder if he ad-libbed that or if it was in the script.

Teenagers by many tickets, and then fap later on. So goes the way of the world.

I can imagine all the toilet stalls being occupied after each showing is over.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

Well, these films are for teenage boys. Teenage boys love hot women.

Not just teenagers.

That college has to be the greatest college ever. t:

 

[Spade]

Most lulz worthy moment in the first film, that had me chuckling since it came out of nowhere. I wonder if he ad-libbed that or if it was in the script.

I think that was in the "Prime Directive" draft that leaked online.

Improv's a weird thing. I hear actors say they improv'd a lot, but what they actually seem to mean is they omitted a line here or there. Most of what they said is in the shooting script if not earlier. Few scripts have an "I know" moment, like how Harrison Ford boiled down Solo's last moments in The Empire Strikes Back.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

I can imagine all the toilet stalls being occupied after each showing is over.

It's better than doing it in the cinema.

That's what the usher said when he was throwing me out. t:

 

[Jake Cassidy]

I think that was in the "Prime Directive" draft that leaked online.

Improv's a weird thing. I hear actors say they improv'd a lot, but what they actually seem to mean is they omitted a line here or there. Most of what they said is in the shooting script if not earlier. Few scripts have an "I know" moment, like how Harrison Ford boiled down Solo's last moments in The Empire Strikes back.

Do you know the scene in 'Bad Boys' where the shopkeeper pulls a gun on them? Smith says, "Now back up and give me a packet of tropical fruit bubbilicious." Than Lawrence says, "and some skittles." That entire thing was improvised and I laugh every time I watch it.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Tmi there Jake with the usher thing.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

I don't know what 'Tmi' means, but I'll take it as a compliment.

 

[Figs]

Too much information

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Too much information, bro. lol

 

[bullets]

I dont know about Misogynistic but....
well I dont know how to describe it but I dont think misogynistic is the right word

I'd say sexy.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

Too much information

Too much information, bro. lol

How could I not know that?

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

How could I not know that?

*pats ya on the shoulder* Its okay. Don't be sad.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

*pats ya on the shoulder* Its okay. Don't be sad.

t:

 

[The Guard]

And I you, Balthus.

Well, the misogny one should be pretty obvious.

Where is there female hating in this movie? Seems to me the movie celebrates women more than anything else. When did it become a crime to appreciate female beauty?

Just take a glance at Maxim College, where all girls dress like hookers and seem to on the cusp of orgasm at all times.

I'm sorry...hookers? Have you BEEN to a college lately? That's how a lot of college girls dress. Even the good girls. Yes, Bay populated the class and the dorm with hot girls. Hollywood's been doing that for years.

Even Megan Fox`s character, first seen with the camera salaciously panning over her ass, is basically window-dressing with nothing to do but look hot and jiggle.

Yes, the camera loves her. The rest...that's not the case at all. She looks hot and jiggles, but she's more than that in this movie. Not much more, but more nonteheless.

Woman being attractive is not new in Hollywood. People liking the fact that attractive people are onscreen is not new in society. You want to have that discussion, fine, but don't condemn TRANSFORMERS for being part of a century long trend, and beyond.

Hell, even the first one gave her something to do in the final battle. This one just lets her be dragged around by Shia the entire time. To call her even two-dimensional would be kind.

Uh, no. She was instrumental in trapping Wheelie (which led to the decoding of the symbols), and she had a role in this movie. No, she doesn't get to drive a truck in battle. Instead, she helps her friend and lover get to Prime.

Two dimensional doesn't equal misogynystic.

Xenophobia is something of a problem in a number of Bay films, Armageddon and Bad Boys II being also offenders, in that he waves the American flag with hyper-active gusto, and paints the USA as the greatest country in the world, while portraying other countries in incredibly simplistic lights, often primitive in fact. Look at the sole human representations of Egypt in this film, with the bumbling border guards. And don`t forget the Jordanian army who, unlike the American army, are swatted down like gnats within 15 seconds of appearing. Heck, the sole representative of Shanghaì`s population (correct me if I`m wrong here) is an old man in Fu Manchu garb eating noodles.

Showing the American military in a good light is called "patriotism". Not Xenophobia. The two ideas need not intersect.

"Xenophobia is a dislike and/or fear of that which is unknown or different from oneself".

Nope. Not seeing that in ROTF.

Dozens of the Shangai population are shown fleeing, because there's a giant freaking Decepticon threat imminent. The old man in a robe eating noodles is just a sight gag. Do Asians not eat noodles or something?

The Jordanian army assist is swatted down for the same reason that the jets toward the end of the Whatever City battle in TRANSFORMERS were. To raise the stakes. An air strike wasn't going to work.

What happens right after that? That's right. The Fallen makes short work of the American and British forces.

Yes, Deep Roy is played for comedy (Go figure).

Whereas the sole representation of the American government authority is also a joke.

As are half the elements in the movie.

Do you see a trend here?

He's not pissing on Egyptians, he's looking for comedy anywhere he can find it, because that's what he set out to do.

As for the glorification of the miilitary, do I even need to explain this one further... The endless majestic visual slow-mo pornography of battleships, fighter jets and soldiers. The infinite scenes of anonymous military people dramatically spouting jargon. This is a Bay motif which has been consistent throughout his career.

Visual pornography? You mean the way he shoots military scenes dynamically, as he shoots damn near everything else?

How is that a bad thing? The military jargon is there, and it's often accurate, which helps the realism. And I'm sorry...showing the American military succeeding, fighting the good fight is a bad thing because...

What fetishizing, exactly? You mean the fact that the movie doesn't portray war as horriffic? Wonder if maybe that has something to do with the fact it's a PG-13 rated Transformers movie, and not, oh, I don't know, SAVING PRIVATE RYAN.

And The Twins are not minstrel, people. Go look up what minstrel show means.

I did? I remember saying I thought that the minstrel nature of the twin Autobots was reprehensible. I also said and still say that the imagery you speak of is not going to indelibly make their way into their consciousness. Eventually, time passes. They learn different philosophies, discuss racism and feminism and ideologies, and stop liking these films. I'm not trying to outright ignore the serious debate Bay's films spark in their depictions of race and opposing creeds. Even the jingoism goes too far. But none of what I'm currently discussing registers with the vast majority of kids, and- as I've said- they have 60-something years of their life to tackle those topics head-on, just like us. There should be no rush.

Furthermore, what sticks in their head is the more beneficial messages because it's presented to them in the form of characters that they can rally behind. Kids don't care about John Tuturro's buttocks or a crass joke involving wrecking balls. Ask most kids and they won't even remember most of the scenes that offended parents and those world-weary enough to see wrong present (which there is). They're drawn to the characters that impress upon them the most, and those main characters don't teach them anything like "skip out on your education," "beat women," or "rob other people blind."

It may be generalizing but...exactly.

I think it's already been pointed out, but why can't Mikaela be a positive role rodel? She's one dimensional, but she sticks by her friend/lover, cares about more than looks and prestige, cares about love, obviously didn't jump right into bed with him, cares about his loyalty, and she's pretty damn brave and loyal, and not, in this movie or the previous one, a complete pushover or a ****. She's just hot. She's also good with cars, which quite frankly is a fairly impressive skill to possess, especially at such a young age.
What's there not to like about her a person, really, beyond the fact that she wears short shorts?

Sam's a decent role model for a normal kid. Certainly Prime and Bumblee have elements that make them role models on some level.

But I digress. This isn't DORA THE EXPLORER. If kids want perfect roles models, they'll need to look elsewhere than a movie where the lead robot preaches being careful about where technology and war lead even as he kills things.

 

[Aesop Rocks]

I wouldn't have mind seeing Bee Transformer at the "tight shirt kid" defending Sam.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Great post Guard.


and did I mention I love you?

 

[BLACK-SPIDEY]

Transformers Revenge of the Fallen 8/10

When i saw Transformers in 2007 i was hyped up a lot, but after that, it was not as enjoyable as i thought it would be.
and today i saw Revenge of the Fallen, which gave me my daily dosis of KICK@SS .Seriously this movie was action packed right from the start,there were funny moments, "HOLY **** THAT LOOKS ****IN AWESOME" moments and sad moments too.i do have complaints but i would be to nitpicky, anyways,its worth seeing it in the bigscreen, or even better go to IMAX, its amazing i tell you, AMAZING.but theres still something that doesnt feel right, something that bothers me, its just weird,i kepp thinking about it again and again and again and again and again and i still cant quite understand it,its confusing me,i mean really, WTF WAS BONECRUSHER DOING IN THERE?? FOR CRYING OUT LOUD BAY!!!!